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Thread: Analyzing the Aimed Shot skill.

  1. #1

    Analyzing the Aimed Shot skill.

    Ok ill start this off by saying the loudest AS nerf whiners lately have been enforcers because this skill almost always takes away 40% of their hp(that is when their invincibility complex makes them forget to snag RRFE). It scores hits that go on the records(i.e. Cyboot's 5049 on caol, my 4880 on Hearse). As far as im concerned with the EQB being able to do this damage is two regular hits there's no room for whining from them. Also since they can take it with 12-13k buffed hp, the fastest runspeed, innate ability of breaking roots, layers, etc...This is not to say enforcers are unkillable, but for a profession such as them aimed shot is a skill that needs to remain and reserved for them especially - i must admit, being a fixer who uses a ql 140 supernova i've never felt more compelled to use an AS on them at a certain point in a fight since bursting is the only alternative and regular damage from a MCS or even a manex for that matter is peanuts to their hp...not surprising, regular damage is just there for the combat animation with reflect in the ballpark.

    That being said. Let's move on to the guns people use in pvp with AS.

    *Caterwaul/X3 - Being that these are pretty much agent reserved weapons and any other profession using this weapon won't do such great damage, you can't whine when you hear about an agent doing 3k-4k AS's on you. They depend on this skill and are amongst the few profs who can rely on other hits besides aimed shot from their gun, not needing to switch or wait for recharge, etc..

    *Techtronica Neural Disruptor - Purely a gun reserved for soldiers, who are supposed to and should specialize in damage dealing... Already this gun is rarely seen in pvp and, without gimping themselves a vast majority of the 11 professions trying to use one of these won't be able to equip a quality sufficient in damage enough and as you know stats damage is of some account in the result of a successful aimed shot. It's got fling too, but nevertheless that skill is crap now. 3/3 clip is good because soldiers already go through enough hell being stuck in the swap times due to reload bugs and such, that need fixing but FC for some reason doesn't understand the function of the 'R' key.

    *Supernova MK VI - traders, soldiers, fixers tons of people would do good using this as an aimed shot choice, but only damagewise. This thing can be more of a danger to you than the person you just hit for 2-5k with. with a 1/1 clip, there will always be a regular shot fired or some screwup that is yet to be found that makes you wait anywhere from 6-12 seconds before being able to swap back. not all profs can self equip their guns, either. there's a exit combat tactic for this for a successful swap the way it should be, but can be just as buggy. It isn't a good idea to do either with these days of bugged suppression and people pressing 'q' when they know they can't win any further.

    *Ithaca Ki-8 - being that this gun's only possible way of doing damage you can rely on is through aimed shot since the nerf of critical chance, being hit by the initial attack isnt going to help much if you've got fixer HoTs or some type of direct healing...it takes ages to crit with this gun as with the river6, which is coming up. Most of the time popular shotgun users like traders and NTs will just die anyway after being targetted by a soldier or an enforcer.

    *River Series 6 - used to be one of the best guns in the game, and is now just an arena pillow fighting weapon. The AS on it isn't as reliable as a lot of other guns either.

    *MA Bows - the fact that MAs can deal a very good amount of damage through reet-tech's and the former xbows is only a good thing since after last patch they really aren't a damage dealer anymore...atleast in my book anyway.

    As you can see, AS is a skill that's best used by the professions that abseloutley need it, others who use it such as myself have drawbacks and risks at hand. It's damage is powerful but don't think for a second that the fact tons of professions use that skill means they have nothing to worry about.

    It can also be mentioned that going fully defensive has a chance - even against 1kish aimed shot skill - of reducing the attack's damage drastically. Also, for the wiseguys out there who like to say that firing an aimed shot at point blank range is unrealistic, id like to see them whine about tons of other things that are unrealistic. I bet the same people who complain about realism would quit if AO returned back to the good old days of 100% damage. If you chain-linked AS to concealment skill in pvp that would be an even worse solution because of how bugged that skill is with zoning, perception checks, and the lack of a message telling you whether or not you sneaked successfully or are hiding from the target you are facing.
    "A man is someone who has a cause he's willing to fight for and has a woman in his life he'll do anything to protect."
    -SDI Ssgt. Port, USMC, MCRD Parris Island S.C.

    Experienced Stars "Stromm" Nstripes - Retired

    Fun stuff: 1 2 3 4 (NEW!!)

  2. #2
    Excellent insight, and I havea quick question:

    If perception when zoning, LOS, etc were actually adressed and
    fixed (However unlikely) what would you *then* think of linking
    conceal to aimedshot? This is, of course, hypothetically speaking.
    "Ideas are more dangerous than guns.
    We wouldn't let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?"

  3. #3
    As someone has already said, I don't know that any agent is going to support conceal linked with AS in PvP. This means they're only going to get 1 AS instead of however many they can get while the fight is going. I would probably throw traders and doctors in with agents.

    I would support it =D

    But I'm not an agent, trader or doctor. =D

  4. #4
    Nice post..

    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/williab/niceas.png

    sorry had too.. :P

    but I still don't use supernova for pvp purposes, switch dreadfull.. personally do feel AS should be more an agent thing, or at least give them a nano which improves their as dmg in pvp more? (not tts which does little imo) as im a soldier and can pull of high as's rather easy, and get a self buffed skill of 1050ish easy.. scope adds alot, can implant it ok..
    Last edited by Sbje; Dec 16th, 2002 at 22:42:09.
    Sbje RK2 Soldier
    Sbee RK2 MA

  5. #5
    Originally posted by Morthoseth
    Excellent insight, and I havea quick question:

    If perception when zoning, LOS, etc were actually adressed and
    fixed (However unlikely) what would you *then* think of linking
    conceal to aimedshot? This is, of course, hypothetically speaking.
    Abseloutley not - im sure many agents would agree that, with fast AS recharging weapons such as the caterwaul, AS shouldnt just be an 'opening' attack weapon. Doing so would only dwindle tactics required to use with timing specials, and this is EXTREMELY essential in these days of full healing. AS would be useless if it could only be used at a time where your enemy had full or a decent amount of nano pool for healing, or against fixer HoTs.

    Also, it would mean that AS is a skill that can ONLY be used by agents since everyone else besides them wouldnt be able to buff their conceal by the hundreds. It's true that a sniper snipes best, but anyone can hold a rifle.

    Rather, concealment should be fixed altogether so it is a viably usable skill just like all the other pvp-general skills are so it can be used by everyone and some soldier with 800 percpeption and 800 conceal won't be seen by a level 74 with base skill in both of those skills.

    For an extra kick, FC could always assign a use to the Night Vision Goggles adding a supreme amount of chance to see sneaked people in dark areas, and increase the chance to hide from your target in dark areas. I've seen this done in less technologically advanced games been done and modifiable, it should be perfectly possible with the mechanics of a game such as AO. A bit off topic but they could also make it so NVG's reduce the amount of effect from blinds.
    "A man is someone who has a cause he's willing to fight for and has a woman in his life he'll do anything to protect."
    -SDI Ssgt. Port, USMC, MCRD Parris Island S.C.

    Experienced Stars "Stromm" Nstripes - Retired

    Fun stuff: 1 2 3 4 (NEW!!)

  6. #6
    Originally posted by Nen Nen
    As someone has already said, I don't know that any agent is going to support conceal linked with AS in PvP. This means they're only going to get 1 AS instead of however many they can get while the fight is going. I would probably throw traders and doctors in with agents.

    I would support it =D

    But I'm not an agent, trader or doctor. =D
    Your probably talking about the post I did responding, I think, to Morthoseth's aimed shot nerf post. Aimed shot will not be nerfed, no way, aimed shot weapons are made for that special. If my aimed shot hits you for 40% in a duel, you can be sure your alpha will do around the same. And its not like every single aimed is a 10K ya know. With 1010 aimed and even more with TTS, I have far more 800 point aimed shots then I do 2K+.

  7. #7
    If Aimed Shot became consealed related many many profs would suffer, Traders sit on full Def with recompiler insta drains and hide behind AS and Fling.

    Least of all docs as imo, AS is more power full than full auto (not dmg wise but recharge wise), Fighting a doc without drains for instance, ill start off with AS to put them on the back foot and then ill save it untill i crit then ill release Fling and AS praying for a crit and that can very often finnish them off or if it dosnt AS will recharge in 30 sec apposed to Full Auto's 5mins or what ever.

    Also against Enforcers who's going to beat a 200 enf on full aggro with no AS? Not me i have 37 ranged init so Full aggro is for after i land Divest and plunder or after the alpha, but with EQB being so power ful i still have to stay full def hoping they miss me and leave me with valuble seconds for nanos and AS to recharge.

    Many chars have been made and customised around the Aimshot skills including mine, it would be real unfair to remove that skill at this point in the game while pvp acctually has a point, laggy point at that.

    BTW u would have a whole load of "Agent type" ganks at the arena if u can only use AS in conseal , i would be maxing the consealment skill, still dosent help when it recharge and ur second AS is the most important imo. (duels at arena)

    Reason i would never use Supernova MK VI or maxex are because it would take to much time to equip/unequip as traders are always using nano's in a fight, Manex because i can hide on full def behind my nice specials, burst recharge is to long and max dmg is 2.5k i think.
    ********
    Neophyte Louie "Jankkar" Strikz - 167 Evil Trader
    ********

  8. #8

    Talking

    Jankkar is muh hero.

  9. #9
    I am an enforcer, but I dont whine about AS myself.

    Just one thing tho, for those sneak attack using people, make buffs for it, mostly enfs and (advs?) maybe mas (doubt it) may use sneak attack, it works under the SAME rules as.

    Just we have no decent buffs, or sneak attack addings items.
    Yep we have played for over a year with it, but they can always change it.

    I have no gripes about making both only able once per fight, thats more of a nerf than a change.

    Just SA users have always been looked down on by AS.
    Also Im glad that you took your time to say this Jankkar ....


    Also against Enforcers who's going to beat a 200 enf on full aggro with no AS? Not me i have 37 ranged init so Full aggro is for after i land Divest and plunder or after the alpha, but with EQB being so power ful i still have to stay full def hoping they miss me and leave me with valuble seconds for nanos and AS to recharge.


    Now you get to feel like a TRADER and not a fighter, Go sit in a corner and CRY, CRY HARD and LONG.

    Sorry to be blunt and arrogant tho, you have to really take alook at the name of your proffession. Face to face conversing would you honeslty be able to put up a good fight making a shop keeper sound like a fighter?


    Aaaaaaaaaanway, back on topic.

    Aimedshot is the only 'special' some classes have, just as Martial Artists have brawl and some enforcers.

    Tho we get to chose not so good weapons, and get a half as good sneak attack(as), and fast attack (fling). Oh yeah and Dimach (FA wannabe).

    I say, leave it.

  10. #10
    just posted this today:

    A balanced look at specials that require concealment.

    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...threadid=82075

    If you want to talk about adjustments, you need to talk about balance. Right know specials that are tied to concealment are not balanced. So, lets talk about balance. then u can talk about adjustments.
    Omni Trader on RK2

  11. #11
    Originally posted by Riokou


    Sorry to be blunt and arrogant tho, you have to really take alook at the name of your proffession. Face to face conversing would you honeslty be able to put up a good fight making a shop keeper sound like a fighter?
    So your an blunt and arrogant enforcer??
    Honestly i tought they lived in caves and died when evolution kicked their blundt a....

  12. #12
    Great post stromm, totally agree.
    As a side note i would like for agents to maybe have a nano that
    gives say 30% more dmg per as, since this is infact agents only special.
    Snipers should snipe a little better then everyone else imho.

  13. #13
    The thing that needs to be fixed with AS is that agents arent the masters of it. Rifle implants conflict with aimedshot implants, so none rifle users can have higher skill than the rifle agents.

  14. #14
    Originally posted by Morthoseth
    Excellent insight, and I havea quick question:

    If perception when zoning, LOS, etc were actually adressed and
    fixed (However unlikely) what would you *then* think of linking
    conceal to aimedshot? This is, of course, hypothetically speaking.
    Only with 100% damage, anything else is a nerf.
    Grupurt Division 9 [RSGE] Ret.
    Second Nanomage Agent To Hit Lvl 200 on RK1

    RK1

  15. #15
    Originally posted by Fryli


    So your an blunt and arrogant enforcer??
    Honestly i tought they lived in caves and died when evolution kicked their blundt a....

    And doctors can, 'heal' imaginery health points.
    And people dont die when shot stupid amount of times.

    Yeah

  16. #16
    As an NT who uses an X-3, I feel the need to speak my mind here....

    Linking AS to Conceal......hmmmm. Some of you support, some of you are against it. Myself, I'm in the gray area. I do feel that the two should be related in some way, but I do not feel that one should in-fact require the other. Lemme tell you a story about Aimed Shots and Concealment that some of you Omni peeps might find entertaining....

    170-ish clanner doc sitting by one of his guild's (Exodus) lower level towers in Clon**** with only 1/4 HP while the area was 25%. Why he would try to log out in such a situation, I do not know. Anyway...forget the fact that I was standing right behind him concealed and neither him, their towers, nor his lower level buddies had the perception to see me. The AimedShot I let off only hit for 780-ish points. It killed him but come on....780 points? Standing 1m away with no one having any knowledge of my presence there? Horse ****. That AS shoulda hit for 5k....easily. The Doc was SITTING and had NO IDEA THAT I WAS EVEN THERE!!! I wouldn't feel so violated if he was at least standing up...but he was SITTING. AND I WAS 1M BEHIND HIM. AND HE DIDN'T KNOW!!! The chance for a kill shot doesn't get any better....

    My point and my belief on how the two should be related is this: if I have the skill to fire a decent AimedShot when concealed (read: WHEN THE ENEMY DOESN'T KNOW I'M THERE), that AimedShot should have a better chance of hitting for high damage simply because the target doesn't know that the shot is coming nor does he know who is shooting it or where they are shooting it from. Unconcealed, the enemy knows you are there and thus has time to do something about the shot...therefore AimedShots coming from an unconcealed shooter should be nowhere near as devastating as AimedShots coming from a concealed shooter.
    .: Naraya :.

  17. #17
    Originally posted by Sbje
    Nice post..

    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/williab/niceas.png

    sorry had too.. :P

    but I still don't use supernova for pvp purposes, switch dreadfull.. personally do feel AS should be more an agent thing, or at least give them a nano which improves their as dmg in pvp more? (not tts which does little imo) as im a soldier and can pull of high as's rather easy, and get a self buffed skill of 1050ish easy.. scope adds alot, can implant it ok..
    Wait wait wait....

    Looking at that screenshot, it could be easily assumed that AS somehow violates the damage caps. I know that in PvM it caps at 10k. Shouldn't it cap at 5k in PvP? Hmmmm....
    .: Naraya :.

  18. #18
    Originally posted by Naraya


    My point and my belief on how the two should be related is this: if I have the skill to fire a decent AimedShot when concealed (read: WHEN THE ENEMY DOESN'T KNOW I'M THERE), that AimedShot should have a better chance of hitting for high damage simply because the target doesn't know that the shot is coming nor does he know who is shooting it or where they are shooting it from. Unconcealed, the enemy knows you are there and thus has time to do something about the shot...therefore AimedShots coming from an unconcealed shooter should be nowhere near as devastating as AimedShots coming from a concealed shooter.
    That, my dear, is exactly how I feel. I'm not saying make it tough
    for anyone to shoot it, anymore, I'm saying give people a damn
    bonus in damage for actually being conceal when doing it. THAT is
    why agents should be masters of AimedShots, because no one
    conceals like them. The strategy guide itself says exactly what
    you just typed, though not in the same wording. I want it implemented!
    "Ideas are more dangerous than guns.
    We wouldn't let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?"

  19. #19

    Arrow

    PvP damage may be halved but I bet the caps for it are not.

    Granted to do 10k pvp damage the target would need over 25k hp. That and you would be doing 20k worth of damage, something a tweaked out agent with a supernova might be capable of, or a really really lucky mostly/all crits full auto.

    Since we can't see the multipliers or individual hits...we won't be finding out anytime soon. (that and the 25k life thing)

    Oh and I've got a screen of a 6k AS from NW beta

    PS nerfs suck. If you want to give a bonus for concealment fine, if you want to nerf AS to only make it work well at all for agents, give everyone some IPRs first.
    mercatura -ae f. [trade, traffic; merchandise]

    Moved off-world and found real tradeskills...along with many other things

  20. #20
    They way they should have aimed shot work is as follows:

    Aimed shot from conceal: 2x present crit multiplier.
    Aimed shot out of conceal: Acts as a fling shot.
    You can re-enter conceal after 10 seconds, regardless of whether someone is aggroed on you. (Though they would use their perception skill to counter your chance of successfully concealing.)


    Sadly, I doubt that this can be implemented at this time, as too many people rely on AS as a quick recharging bread and butter special.
    --
    Kenlon- Combat Medic, RK1
    "This! Is! My! Boomstick!" Gear.

    Creaky old vet, back for another go-round.

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