Omni VS. Clans- Is Peace a Reality?

[Centurion3]

Originally posted by Jynke
Bah... this is disgusting.

How can any *true* Clanner support this kind of talk?

Would we replace one merciless unfeeling beauracry driven by GREED, with another?

"One voice"!?!?!?

NO!

ALL VOICES.

I agree that our enemy is NOT the people of OT... it is the structure of corparate greed that bleeds our planet dry and shackles us with rediculous restrictions to our inherent freedoms.

I will fight this entity until my perma-death. But be warned, I will fight any Clanner who seeks to rise up from it's ashes as my "leader".

ALL VOICES, TRUE FREEDOM.

-jynke

Greed? Progress, profit... any corperation must strive for profit and use this profit for the good of its employees, even one like you must understand that there cant be room for much generosity in an buisness world. Sad but thats the way it is.

And your freedom? What do you want exactly? Your own land? You have that. Or had untill the accords fell. You will fight anyone who will lead, you can stay leaderless and guidless forever then... fight everything and everyone forever, but dont ask for any support or rights if you choose to do so.

The sentinels might not be the leader of the clans, well now would be an good time to select an new leadership then and overthrow the Sentinels. How are we supposed to negotiate an truce when the clans are this scattered?

[_______________Jynke]

Originally posted by Centurion3


Greed? Progress, profit... any corperation must strive for profit and use this profit for the good of its employees, even one like you must understand that there cant be room for much generosity in an buisness world. Sad but thats the way it is.

I seek no man's generosity. But when a select few get fat and wealthy of the blood and sweat of my brothers and sisters... while stripping them of their individuality and basic human rights... I see an Evil that must be fought.

Originally posted by Centurion3

You will fight anyone who will lead, you can stay leaderless and guidless forever then... fight everything and everyone forever, but dont ask for any support or rights if you choose to do so.

Not all organizations believe that one among them is superior. That it's members are merely cattle, to be sent to slaughter in battle, incapable of making their own decisions.

When I came to this planet, I thought that's what the Clans were about.... however, I soon found many Clanners that were just as hungry for power and profit as our OT enemies.

All people of Rubi-Ka deserve to govern themselves as they see fit. Rule themselves as they wish to be ruled. Let all speak with their own voice.

No one can convince me that anyone here has more of a right than anybody else to determine our fate as a people.

I come here and see Clanners sueing for peace, trying to fashion themselves into a mirror of that which we despise... "common law"? "common clan government"?

We are here because we fought for the individual... the individual that was just a "piece of equipment" to OT.

Yet here they are ready to throw away those ideals and claim the right to speak for us.

I WON'T let that happen... if I fight alone, so be it.

-jynke

[Centurion3]

Spoken like an true anarchist, indeed you have no clue what it is to be part of an greater good, to strive for the good of us all. You go fight for your individuality and keep telling yourself that every OT employee is an mindless drone. But in truth, I fight for Omni-Tek because they are right, they have the law on their side, they have ethical and moral advantage, they have the backing of billions of people. But of course, none of this matter since you want anarchy and to be able to do whatever you want without rules and regulations, so yeah, you go fight for that. And while you do that, I will strive for laws, peace and justice, all these things you describe as evil.

[UwensBack]

Well, I will have to take Centurion's side against you Jynke. You are a threat to peace and democracy. The clans do not despise government. They despise OmniTek. Each for their own reason, but in the end, they despise OmniTek. When I first quit OmniTek it was because I felt it was a fascist, repressive government. What I decided while I was still a clanner is that it has to be fascist to run its company effectively. What I decided is that it should be a company, just not a nation. What Rubi Ka needs is a democracy that is seperate of sides and that all people can vote in. Anarchy, while it can be an ideal if it is worked properly, can never be worked properly. Democracy is the best choice and involves everyone's voice. That is what the clans are trying to create. A common democratic government that can prove to OmniTek that the clans are not barbarians and can have peace talks that will have any weight. The talks with Radiman couldn't carry weight because Radiman couldn't enforce the peace. Once a majority of the clans can come together and form a unified democratic government and will submit their own clans voluntarily to its authority, then peace can be achieved. The unificatio and democratization of the clans is a good thing, far better than the invading pig flying a liberators flag Simon Silverstone and his Sentinels, who are akin to the Communist Russians invading eastern european countries in old earth's World War II and labeling themselves "Liberators".

[Centurion3]

Well said.

[_______________Jynke]

Originally posted by Centurion3
Spoken like an true anarchist, indeed you have no clue what it is to be part of an greater good, to strive for the good of us all.

Uhm I think you made a typo here... where you said "strive for the good of us all"... I think you meant to say "line the pockets of OT directors with credits bought with the blood of Rubi-Ka's people"

The sentence makes a lot more sense that way.

Laws are not justice. They are not ethics and morals.

Laws are OT's excuse to kill and steal for profit.

Justice, ethics, and morals exist regardless of the rules and regulations you quote to your assistant. Laws just make it easier for the wealthy and connected to be immoral and unethical and unpunished. While everyone else gets shafted.

I know what is right, just, and ethical. So does my family, and so do my friends.

Who are you to tell me otherwise? What do your rules mean to us?

-jynke

[Centurion3]

no I really mean for the good of us all... Omni-Tek provides good lifes for billions of people, the rules and laws of Omni-Tek are humanitarian laws that has survived alot.

Laws are not justice? Laws are not ethical? Well if thats the way you feel then you are an anarchist indeed.

And our rules means nothing to you anymore, you live beyond ethics and moral, and please, continue to do so, there is only so much Omni-Tek will tolerate. Crimes against humanity will not be tolerated I assure you.

[_______________Jynke]

Laws, justice, and ethics are not one and the same.

What is legal is not always ethical, and what is illegal is not always just.

All I know is that prosperity for *all* Clanners is greater than it has ever been. We have no leader, we have no central government. Individual's have the right to determine their own path on this world... free from the arbitrary judgments of people that know them not. The repercussions we face for our actions, come from our Clan, Organization, and family and friends. Where they SHOULD come from.

Not some faceless 'crat it a orbital suite... motivated by profit margins.

Call it anarchism if you like, but we fought to get these freedoms and this prosperity... and I will fight OT employee or would-be Clan dictator a like, if they seek to take it away.

-jynke

[_______________Jynke]

Originally posted by Uwen
Anarchy, while it can be an ideal if it is worked properly, can never be worked properly

Well if what we have now is "Anarchy"... it's working properly. Not perfectly, but FAR better than what we had under OT...

You form some beuaracratic monstrosity to lord over the Clans, and all you've done is change the name plates on our oppressor's desks.

-jynke

[Kithraks]

Have any of you "freedom fighters" ever stop to think that maybe some people auctually like the way things work in Omni-Tek? Omni-Tek is not just a company out for profit, it is a way of life complete with the security, law and, order that comes with it.

Ever stop to think about that the next time you start picking apart an Omni mining operation in the name of your self justified crusade? Omni-Tek employees still have the freedom to choose to live under corporate management can they not?

[UwensBack]

Jynke- A democracy would not be an oppressive beauracracy as you seem to think it would. It would be a government that is there as the people's choice and will do what is best for the people.

And if you think the anarchy is working for the clans, you are wrong. Simon Silverstone and his thugs have invaded and subdued Tir and while there are movements to remove them, they are becoming more entrenched everyday. The anarchy is not working. OmniTek is using the excuse (although a valid point, its still an excuse) that their are too many clans and you would have to have a seperate peace treaty with each clan. I used to think that this shouldn't be a problem and that if OmniTek really wans peace, they should just do it. However, I have realised two things. One, it is impossible to have peace treaties with all these seperate clans. There are many as it is and more are created every day and there are almost as many different agendas and ideals as there are clans. Two, OmniTek should not have to make all the compromises in the talks for peace. There is a movement in the clans to organise a recognised unified democratic government installed so that OmniTek can have a unified nation to talk about peace with (as well as to possibly fear if things go wrong) instead of thousands of individual clans. The democratic government would not take away from your freedoms except for perhaps some security laws like laws against theft and murder, but I am sure that you would not mind not being allowed to steal or murder. However, if you would mind this, then you would seem to have a rather sick mind, though I am sure this is not the case. You are appearing to be one of the radicals on all sides that are inhibiting the peace process and I hope I am either mistaken or proven otherwise.

[Centurion3]

Originally posted by Jynke
Laws, justice, and ethics are not one and the same.

What is legal is not always ethical, and what is illegal is not always just.

All I know is that prosperity for *all* Clanners is greater than it has ever been. We have no leader, we have no central government. Individual's have the right to determine their own path on this world... free from the arbitrary judgments of people that know them not. The repercussions we face for our actions, come from our Clan, Organization, and family and friends. Where they SHOULD come from.

Not some faceless 'crat it a orbital suite... motivated by profit margins.

Call it anarchism if you like, but we fought to get these freedoms and this prosperity... and I will fight OT employee or would-be Clan dictator a like, if they seek to take it away.

-jynke

Proposterous. so if your clan and family accept that you go out and shoot people then its alright? Every society must have basic rules and laws. Anarchy is completely pointless and will never hold up in the long run. There will never be complete freedom, Anarchy is survival of the strongest, thats not freedom.

You can only have complete freedom if your the last creature in the world or the one strongest that dominate all the others, luckily your neither and there will be laws and rules for everyone to follow. Belive it or not, we're here to uphold justice on this planet.

[UwensBack]

Centurion is right. You cannot go around doing whatever it is you feel like doing without regard to how it might affect others. You have the weight of all three sides who value at least a basic set of laws to keep people safe and alive. Government is not your enemy, the wrong type of government is your enemy. And no government is one of the wrong types of government

[Fixerben]

Hello!

I have been trying to start this democracy for months...If anyone wants in let me know. I need all the help I can get. I am currently working with the RMC. But I have a vision for it that may carry it into this government. It is an interfactional organization, so it could turn into this government you speak of.

[Meister]

We have Democracy and a government Benjacrat. Philip Ross is our Government and our Democracy.

Stick to being a delegate of Omni-Tek and stop trying to rally the masses in some futile cause. Our problem is we have too many would be chiefs and not enough indians. Know your role and do your job already. Leave the rest to Mr. Ross.

[Centurion3]

Dont agree with this, we are not an democracy, but I have no doubt that Philip Ross wants what is best for us all.

[Kithraks]

Benevolent dictatorships, it works for us as long as the leaders are responsible and just. Democracies are slow to act and usually end up fighting each other in internal popularity contests.

A democracy can't choose what flavor of ice cream they want before it melts because of all the bickering. At least under a dictatorship there will auctually BE ice cream for everyone.

[Vixentrox]

...and prison or firing squad if you mention you don't like that flavour of ice cream!

[Poetica]

But this one leaps to my mind:

"Democracy is a form of government that substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few." (George Bernard Shaw)

I just hope they let me keep my chocolate ice-cream

[Fixerben]

Originally posted by Charles
Benevolent dictatorships, it works for us as long as the leaders are responsible and just. Democracies are slow to act and usually end up fighting each other in internal popularity contests.

A democracy can't choose what flavor of ice cream they want before it melts because of all the bickering. At least under a dictatorship there will auctually BE ice cream for everyone.

/me looks back into his history books...

November 07 29201 - Dissatisfied with Omni-Tek management and broken promises, workers instigate massive uprisings across Rubi-Ka. OT answers the demonstrations with firepower. Eighteen OT guards and more than three hundred workers are killed.

The reason the Clans rebelled in the first place was because OT was slow to react to their demands. A corporation can take just as long as a democracy. It just depends on how willing the people are to work together.

Originally posted by Iceman
We have Democracy and a government Benjacrat. Philip Ross is our Government and our Democracy.

Stick to being a delegate of Omni-Tek and stop trying to rally the masses in some futile cause. Our problem is we have too many would be chiefs and not enough indians. Know your role and do your job already. Leave the rest to Mr. Ross.

I am a Clanner, and I beleive that a corporation has no place ruling a whole planet. The planet should be governed by the people. Hence my suggested Democracy.

Originally posted by Poetica
Democracy is a form of government that substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few." (George Bernard Shaw)

Thats a direct contradiction of what a Democracy is. The people in this government I propose will be elected by the people. Not by an Electoral College as it was on Old Eart.