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Thread: Omni VS. Clans- Is Peace a Reality?

  1. #41
    Originally posted by Kronocide
    This is only partially true. A person is born into a faction. If you consider that someone has his or her whole family and social network in that faction when they are old enough to make a decision, it's easy to see that personal choice can be outweighed by peer pressure. You may not even have the objective information necessary to make an informed choice.

    I'm with Benjacrat on this.
    Rubbish, if you fight for an organisation you should stand for their belifes and take responsibility for them.
    "Yesterday we bowed before kings and bent our necks to emperors, today we kneel only before truth"

  2. #42
    Centurion, I do fight for my sides beleifs. But not with a gun...And the difference we are talking about is between the diplomats and murderers. No negotiation at gun point has ever held very long.

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  3. #43
    uhhuh... well we in Omni-Tek cant do that again, we need an force to maintain the laws this time, not just take the clans words that they want peace and to see them blow up our homes at the same time. Not generalising, I just hate the Sentinels and Dustbrigade.
    "Yesterday we bowed before kings and bent our necks to emperors, today we kneel only before truth"

  4. #44
    I am clan and I hate the Sents and DB as well.
    -Finalizer Vixentrox-
    Former President and Founder,
    -Whisper's Edge-
    Former Member of the Atlantean CoT Clerical Staff

    Socializer 73% Killer 53% Explorer 53% Achiever 20%

    Kissysuzuki -
    WTB small enough brain and lack of imagination to be able to sit and solo hecklers for 5 days straight.

  5. #45
    Rubbish, if you fight for an organisation you should stand for their belifes and take responsibility for them.

    Well, disregarding for a moment that "should" doesn't come into it--it's about what you are able to do, and it's quite possible that you can't choose objectively growing up in a faction--it's also important to remember that not all Clanners fight, and I assume that not all Omni-Teks fight either, which makes your point moot.
    Last edited by Kronocide; Dec 17th, 2002 at 17:16:27.
    Tenfour, Scienceleet, Abhaya, all on Atlantean
    AO Stuff

  6. #46
    I have a sever disdain, almost hate, for the Sentinels and DB.

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  7. #47
    Considering that I'm not supporting the war efforts in the first place, I obviously have no love for extremists like the Sentinels and certainly not for terrorists like the Dust Brigade.

    ((Argh, I keep sliding over into the wrong personality, I'm supposed to be a cowboy style fixer, not an intellectual! I have multiple personality disorder. Help!))
    Tenfour, Scienceleet, Abhaya, all on Atlantean
    AO Stuff

  8. #48
    ((OOC: bah...try juggling 3 characters with different political stances. I get confused on who "I" am.))

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  9. #49
    ((lol, I see what you mean.))
    Tenfour, Scienceleet, Abhaya, all on Atlantean
    AO Stuff

  10. #50
    Everyone who choose, of their own free will, to join or remain in an organisation must be prepared to be seen as part of that organisation and as supporting their ideas.

    You fight for a Rubi-ka run by the people yet you claim that you can't hold people accountable for their actions? Surely that would be a strange democracy...I suppose you would have re-elections because people really didnt actually mean what they voted but only did it cause someone pressured them? Or they didnt have all the right information to make the right choice?

    No. Everyone is responsible for their life. And if you ever wan't the population to have responsibility for running the planet you should start by allowing them the responsibility of their own life.

  11. #51
    I think you are confusing my views with Krono's.

    In the oragnization we have proposed responsibility for actions goes by guild. Since guilds own bases, and not individuals. And I am not in any organization becuase I have yet to find one that fits with my system of beleifs, except this one that we have proposed.

    Everyone should be held responsible for their actions. Clan/Omni/and Neutral alike. No exceptions...

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  12. #52
    I'm glad you see it that way, Benjacrat.

    Again, the difference between rouge clans and any Omni-tek rouge factions that may exist is that Omni-tek has a clearly defined structure and the abilities to handle this while the Clans have not.
    Omni-tek has the ability and mandate to govern it's own while no such circumstances exist in the nothern lands.

    I am glad to see other clanners voicing their distaste for the Sentinels.
    Perhaps, once the criminals have been pacified, some of you will sit at the negotiating table discussing the terms for a new, and hopefully more successful, Tir Accord.

  13. #53
    Gestava, I dont wish for another compromise for the Clans. I wish for peace for the whole planet. A government for all the free people of Rubi-Ka.

    And yes as you said we currently have no contingencies to deal with Rogue organizations. Which is why we are forming the organization we are. And I have still seen only limited instances of Omni-Tek excercising its control over its employees as it pertains to Laws.

    Peaceful guilds have had their towers destroyed by Omni attack forces. These people attacking unprovoked are criminals. Just as any Clan members that do something similar are just as equally criminals. Both must be punished.

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  14. #54
    Originally posted by Benjacrat
    Gestava, I dont wish for another compromise for the Clans. I wish for peace for the whole planet. A government for all the free people of Rubi-Ka.

    And yes as you said we currently have no contingencies to deal with Rogue organizations. Which is why we are forming the organization we are. And I have still seen only limited instances of Omni-Tek excercising its control over its employees as it pertains to Laws.

    Peaceful guilds have had their towers destroyed by Omni attack forces. These people attacking unprovoked are criminals. Just as any Clan members that do something similar are just as equally criminals. Both must be punished.
    And why should Omni ever forgive the Clans for their actions? Why should we let you continue your existance only so you can kill more of us?

    You've had your chances, The talks of peace are over myself I wont risk another Terrorist Action like the one in Dec 19 happen ever again by letting scum like you Rebels live.
    Despite everything in the end I was a Fixer and I can say it was hell of a ride.

  15. #55
    Such an eloquent representative of the Omni community...and all too frequent example of hate-mongering.
    -Finalizer Vixentrox-
    Former President and Founder,
    -Whisper's Edge-
    Former Member of the Atlantean CoT Clerical Staff

    Socializer 73% Killer 53% Explorer 53% Achiever 20%

    Kissysuzuki -
    WTB small enough brain and lack of imagination to be able to sit and solo hecklers for 5 days straight.

  16. #56
    /me thinks that we should just ignore him

    He seems to just want to kill things. Not my type of person. I hope not all of your guild is like you. Otherwise you certainly will never retain any kind of peace...

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  17. #57
    Atrox were not bred for political discussions...or any kinds of discussions for that matter...

    You do not wish for another clan compromise, Benjacrat? That is the same as advocating a war. Omni-tek will never give up their, oficially granted and recognised, hold on Rubi-ka. The notum is much too precious for that.

    You talk about peace yet you pose an ultimatum, never even considering that a lot of Omni-tek people are quite happy and satisfied with Omni-tek rule and have absolutely no desire to see a chaotic and unstable goverment form such as democracy being instated. What about their wishes? Do they mean nothing to you? Only the Clans desires are vaild?

    Secondly, seeing as there currently exists no official documentation of what is to be considered clan territories, all land is by default Omni-tek property and therefore all mining rights are by default the property of Omni-tek.
    You should be grateful that the attacks on these illegal mining operations have so far only been conducted by zealous Omni-tek employees and not official Omni-AF forces.

  18. #58
    Gestava:

    I'm responsible for my actions like everyone else. But what are my actions? Do I fight Omnis (except verbally, when called for, but I do that to Clanners too)? No. You claim that I "fight" for something. You have no idea.

    I work hard, sell my goods, leave people alone. And stay out of populated areas when I can. So which of those actions is it that I have to take responsibility for? And I assure you that there are more people like me, on all sides of the conflict, who just go about their thing, not minding anyone that don't give them a specific reason.

    As opposed to what you seem to think, being a Clanner or an Omni is most of the time not a matter of choice. It's a matter of coincidence. The roll of the dice. I didn't choose to be born a Clanner. I'm glad that I was, but that is probably as much because I've grown up in the northern territories as anything else. Surely Omnis are fed their values to at least the same extent while they grow up.

    There's nothing wrong with that, but we have to recognize it as a fact, and respect it and each other. That is the only way to peace.

    But as I've said, I'm not holding my breath.
    Last edited by Kronocide; Dec 17th, 2002 at 20:37:15.
    Tenfour, Scienceleet, Abhaya, all on Atlantean
    AO Stuff

  19. #59
    Originally posted by Gestava
    Atrox were not bred for political discussions...or any kinds of discussions for that matter...

    You do not wish for another clan compromise, Benjacrat? That is the same as advocating a war. Omni-tek will never give up their, oficially granted and recognised, hold on Rubi-ka. The notum is much too precious for that.

    You talk about peace yet you pose an ultimatum, never even considering that a lot of Omni-tek people are quite happy and satisfied with Omni-tek rule and have absolutely no desire to see a chaotic and unstable goverment form such as democracy being instated. What about their wishes? Do they mean nothing to you? Only the Clans desires are vaild?

    Secondly, seeing as there currently exists no official documentation of what is to be considered clan territories, all land is by default Omni-tek property and therefore all mining rights are by default the property of Omni-tek.
    You should be grateful that the attacks on these illegal mining operations have so far only been conducted by zealous Omni-tek employees and not official Omni-AF forces.
    No no no, please dont misinterpret my words for an ultimatum. I have absolutley no power to issue any such statement as an ultimatum. Let me more clearly explain what I meant. I simply meant that Peace should not have to come at a compromise. We should not have to give up liberties to gain other liberties.

    I know Omni that look forward to a Democratic/Republican form of government. And as for those that are happy with OT rule, they may certainly stay that way if they wish. I would only ask that a peace treaty be signed between the two governing bodies so as not to cause further conflict.

    Then the two governing bodies would be expected to deal with their respective problems internally.

    And in response to your last paragraph. The ICC opened up the spots previously designated as Notum Rich by Omni-Mine as "Open for Public mining." The word Public meaning, to everyone on Rubi-Ka. Making these peices of land neutral grounds, not Omni or Clan territory. And the bases that are established on these peices of land, are totally legal, hence any unprovoked attack on these (ICC declared) legal mining operations is a criminal act.

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  20. #60
    Well, I for one never thought that a corporation should run a nation in the first place. A corporation shouldn't have its own armed forces and shouldn't own its employees. I don't mind OmniTek on RubiKa like some other clans. I don't even care if they have a notum monopoly. The only thing I care about is the fact that there is a corporation where a normal government should be. If their were a non-biased government at the helm of RubiKa, it is entirely possible we could have world peace and turn as a united planet to face the universe. But this is not going to happen if OmniTek is the government.

    What needs to happen is OmniTek giving up its governmental status to a group of elected officials. It also needs to transfer its military to the new democratic governments control, when they are ready to take it. The clans will need to turn over their military bodies to the democratic government as well. Then, when OmniTek and all reasonable clans have turned over control to this democratic government, the united government can root out and arrest any further threats to peace. OmniTek can continue mining, it can have a monopoly for all I care. It can continue making profits and not have to pay for all the administrative and military maintainence which will further increase profits.

    And Gestava, democracy is not unstable or chaotic, as long as their are not too many different political parties vying for power. A number under 10 is best for prime stability.The government is chosen by the people and therefore the people will be content with the government. The greatest superpowers in Old Earth were democratic and there is no reason RubiKa could not become its own democratic superpower. With a democratic government, it is highly likely that clansmen that fought against OmniTek today could apply (or reapply in some cases) and get back to work with OmniTek, further increasing profits.
    Last edited by Uwen; Dec 18th, 2002 at 06:45:30.
    Bliqz: "anything Uwen says is a vicious and ugly lie"

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