Rule change proposal: Only top 2 ranks can enter a state of war

[Nenous]

Yeah, you got a lot of backing for that comment Nenous. I think the only time I ever saw you in game was the time you and your crew tried to ninja the Obediency Enforcer, so I think I had a bloody good reason to be "pesimistic". I'm sure those who try get to know me rather than try to steal loot off a mob I tanked would have a different opinion than you.

LOL. My opinions of you were formed from the attack on Izgimmer's Legacy. All you did was ***** and moan, ***** and moan. On the very first day of Notum Wars - was a sad thing.

You're such a runt, I didn't even remember you were at OE. An all-Rebels KT won the kill - you're lucky Rebels members don't listen to Rebels advisors or that upgrade never would have seen the light of day. It ain't a ninja if it's FFA - and I NEVER agreed to raffle as well as many others. Talk about ninja? I was one of the 4 195+ soldiers there and I was explicitly EXCLUDED from the raffle. So you in effect, ninja'd me.

Talk is cheap,
Nenous

[Coldstrike]

Originally posted by Nen Nen


LOL. My opinions of you were formed from the attack on Izgimmer's Legacy. All you did was ***** and moan, ***** and moan. On the very first day of Notum Wars - was a sad thing.

You're such a runt, I didn't even remember you were at OE. An all-Rebels KT won the kill - you're lucky Rebels members don't listen to Rebels advisors or that upgrade never would have seen the light of day. It ain't a ninja if it's FFA - and I NEVER agreed to raffle as well as many others. Talk about ninja? I was one of the 4 195+ soldiers there and I was explicitly EXCLUDED from the raffle. So you in effect, ninja'd me.

So I guess the 6 of you would have been able to kill the OE all by yourself then? Let me remind you that there were about 15 people there who had spent 7 hours killing OIs just to spawn the OE. You did not bring enough healing to keep a tank alive. You did not bring a NT to keep the docs with nano. You did not pull the OE without bringing the minions. All you did was press Q and go lean back for 20 minutes while the others did the work.

The teams present when you got there consisted of several Lost Chapter and Redemption members, and also several single representatives for smaller guilds and unguilded people. It was pretty obvious that it wasn't a FFA.

At least half your KT understood that a raffle was the only fair thing to do, and expressed this in the vicinity chat.

So I don't know, from my point of view you tried to ninja the OE.


As for the Izgimmers Legacy battle, I pretty much enjoyed that one, so I can't see how you got the impression that I was pissing and moaning. I stayed there from the first shot being fired til the gas turned 5%, would I have done that if I was so annoyed I was pissing and moaning all the time? Don't think so.

[Nenous]

So I guess the 6 of you would have been able to kill the OE all by yourself then? Let me remind you that there were about 15 people there who had spent 7 hours killing OIs just to spawn the OE. You did not bring enough healing to keep a tank alive. You did not bring a NT to keep the docs with nano. You did not pull the OE without bringing the minions. All you did was press Q and go lean back for 20 minutes while the others did the work.

Guess you haven't been to many uniques then. Lets take Kaehler for example - a lot of people have shown up to the same spawn. From different orgs, some there for hours, some arriving just before he pops up. Ain't gonna be a raffle - sorry to disappoint. You must think everything is based upon Tarasque when that's simply not the case. Maybe you want a raffle when a Primus drops at the Primus Camp? Once again, sorry to disappoint. Not everything is seen though a Camelot perspective.

would I have done that if I was so annoyed I was pissing and moaning all the time? Don't think so.

I dunno - you seem to hang around the forums a lot even though all you do is piss and moan =D

You can say all you want. Even try to tag me with a ninja label - which certainly explains why I let someone else take my Gaily Painted Hood off of Tarasque when that was 1 of 2 items I was crazy for. The truth is - you don't know me, and I don't know you.

Which is why my original comment was simply stated: "I generally perceive Coldstrike to be a very pessimistic person, and that stems from both in-game and forum."

It's a perception. And a very general one at that.

Go back to your ravings =P
Nenous

[_____Real Kinky Ityn]

Originally posted by Coldstrike



What the fark is your god damn problem Ityn? I raise a legit issue for debate, and you start comming in here with some personal assault like this. How about you learn to separate between a nerf and a fix that is for the better. Or maybe explain how this is a nerf in the first place? A nerf of griefers?

Or just shove that stick even deeper up your arse.

LoL Coldstrike, if you weren't such a douche-bag I'd take the time to point out all the stupid problems with this idea, from players waltzing into tower zones in 25% periods and being attacked by them but being unable to attack back because whoever is in their org that would be able to initiate an attack is off-line, out of town, working, or doing something better with their life than wasting it here. If they could attack back then that would be the perfect exploit to taking down a base without risk no? Why is it so hard for you to police your own organization? To take some RESPONSIABILITY for making INTELLIGENT DECISIONS for who will be in your ranks and who will not? Are you such an A$$clown that you can't take a little responsibility for your choices in your guilds membership?

This IS a NURF post, you want to nurf 90% of the players ability to take some decisive action in this game. It's just as much a NURF post as your NURF drains, NURF MAs, NURF Enforcers, NURF roots, NURF everything that threatens Coldstrike, FIX everything that improves Coldstrike. Thank Funcom no one cares about the suggestions here.

By the way, I'm in a medium sized guild and I am in the top 3 ranks of that guild, so I can do things like build controllers, but I actually know or am acquainted with the 60 odd active people in our guild and know their character enough to trust them and rely on them to follow orders. I would suggest you be a GOOD leader and do the same.

And please stop licking the stick I just handed you, that’s gross.

[Nenous]

This IS a NURF post, you want to nurf 90% of the players ability to take some decisive action in this game. It's just as much a NURF post as your NURF drains, NURF MAs, NURF Enforcers, NURF roots, NURF everything that threatens Coldstrike, FIX everything that improves Coldstrike. Thank Funcom no one cares about the suggestions here.

Heh, I think those posts stem from a sekrit desire to overthrow Zerosignal as Soldier Professional!

Booo! *throws rox*

lol just messing =P

[Coldstrike]

Originally posted by Nen Nen

Guess you haven't been to many uniques then. Lets take Kaehler for example - a lot of people have shown up to the same spawn. From different orgs, some there for hours, some arriving just before he pops up. Ain't gonna be a raffle - sorry to disappoint. You must think everything is based upon Tarasque when that's simply not the case. Maybe you want a raffle when a Primus drops at the Primus Camp? Once again, sorry to disappoint. Not everything is seen though a Camelot perspective.

No, I'm basing it on what is common practice on the new bosses in EFP. Dropping in late, after 15+ people have spent 7 hours to spawn the OE, and then proceed to grab the loot is KSing no matter how you look at it.

You can't really compare a mob that takes multiple hours to spawn to some 18h unique that any odd team of 3-4 people can kill in 5 minutes.

[Nenous]

Apples are red and sweet. Oranges are orange and tangy. =D

I was unaware that he was not on an 18hr timer. If you had to whack mobs for hours to GET him to spawn, I'll conceed the raffle point. But for an 18 hour spawn, or a random spawn timer, I don't care how long you've been there. Either way, the fact is that everyone whined fairness, and when fairness swung their way - who really gives a **** if some other guy gets cut from the raffle, it ain't me! Won't see me at a LC or Redemption tower defense, even if PatK9 is my grey-skull bud.

Not that I'm bitter about it. Just stating da facts. In AO, Ninja is like the word **** - don't use it unless you're sure. I take Trash King and TIM kills like dimes on the street. I'm an evil player if you ain't runnin' with me. But I am a man of my word. I don't tell you I'm here for a raffle or fairness then take the kill. I'll tell you I'm taking the f'n kill before the spawn even drops.

I didn't agree to any raffle, and no one gave me a heal =D
Evil Nenous

[cerebrix]

listen. i cant say it more plainly.

if you let people into your org w/o screening them first. you get what you deserve. NW has changed the face of what an org is and what it does.

if someone attacks a tower w/o permission, well good god, isnt that what /org kick <targetmember> is for?

after that i would seriously reconsider who does your recruiting.

i know in my org is very very clear that if someone attacks a tower w/o permission from our president directly their bags are bein thrown out before they even get a chance to pack.

wait i can say it more plainly.

play like an idiot, get what an idiot deserves.

play w/ patience and respect those in your org and youll do very well around here.

my 2.123 cents

-Wintermut3

[Coldstrike]

Originally posted by Nen Nen
Apples are red and sweet. Oranges are orange and tangy. =D

I was unaware that he was not on an 18hr timer. If you had to whack mobs for hours to GET him to spawn, I'll conceed the raffle point. But for an 18 hour spawn, or a random spawn timer, I don't care how long you've been there. Either way, the fact is that everyone whined fairness, and when fairness swung their way - who really gives a **** if some other guy gets cut from the raffle, it ain't me! Won't see me at a LC or Redemption tower defense, even if PatK9 is my grey-skull bud.

Not that I'm bitter about it. Just stating da facts. In AO, Ninja is like the word **** - don't use it unless you're sure. I take Trash King and TIM kills like dimes on the street. I'm an evil player if you ain't runnin' with me. But I am a man of my word. I don't tell you I'm here for a raffle or fairness then take the kill. I'll tell you I'm taking the f'n kill before the spawn even drops.

I didn't agree to any raffle, and no one gave me a heal =D
Evil Nenous

Well, to make that particular mob spawn you need to kill it's placeholder an undefined number of times. The spawn rate pretty fast, but some times you need to kill a lot of placeholders for it to spawn. That particular time people had spent 7 hours doing nothing but killing the OI to make the OE spawn, so if you look at it from their perspective I'm sure you see why people get upset when people come in and grabs the grand prize after putting in that much work for it.

Why you weren't in the raffle is a mystery to me tho. Hunie held the raffle, and we included all soldiers who had been present, including those who logged in anger, and those who had high level soldier alts, but choose to go with other characters that they found more useful for the raid.

But anyway, my initial point was that from my point of view, I did have a pretty good reason to be a little grumpy the only time I ever met you, so an opinion formed based on that would be pretty inaccurate.

As for Ityns "Anti Nerf" campaign, how the hell is this a nerf? I already said that the top 2 ranks is an arbitrary number, and could just as well be all non applicants. I want guilds to have the option of recruiting people to their guilds and screening them in guild without running the risk of entering a state of war due to some cheap trick. I also want guilded people to have the option of enjoying the PvP aspect of NW without forcing their guild to war and making 50+ people have to baby sit their base for 2 hours every time they want to PvP.

So as I see it, it's a boost to guild recruitment, and a boost to people who just wants to have some fun PvPing. The only ones who are nerfed are those who wants to start a 1 day old character, join some newbie guild and strip them of their base.

But you'll probably never understand this. Everything is a nerf in your eyes, even a bugfix. I'm sure that when they fix the pet exploit in tower wars you will think of that as a nerf to your profession.

But you probably didn't reply to this post because you got an opinion anyway. You just replied because you want to nit pick and argue.

[_____________Rolller]

Stinking flame wars.


I still say if you let any old fool in your org you should be made to pay for that policy.

Orgs have used numbers to get what they want from this game. This little "addition" is a nice balancing mechanisim.

[_____Real Kinky Ityn]

Originally posted by Coldstrike


As for Ityns "Anti Nerf" campaign, how the hell is this a nerf? I already said that the top 2 ranks is an arbitrary number, and could just as well be all non applicants. I want guilds to have the option of recruiting people to their guilds and screening them in guild without running the risk of entering a state of war due to some cheap trick. I also want guilded people to have the option of enjoying the PvP aspect of NW without forcing their guild to war and making 50+ people have to baby sit their base for 2 hours every time they want to PvP.

So as I see it, it's a boost to guild recruitment, and a boost to people who just wants to have some fun PvPing. The only ones who are nerfed are those who wants to start a 1 day old character, join some newbie guild and strip them of their base.

But you'll probably never understand this. Everything is a nerf in your eyes, even a bugfix. I'm sure that when they fix the pet exploit in tower wars you will think of that as a nerf to your profession.

But you probably didn't reply to this post because you got an opinion anyway. You just replied because you want to nit pick and argue.

Hahaha, I laugh now. I wasn't being argumentative before; I was being insulting because I'm sick of your whiney posts that just say FIX THIS without any thoughts to game mechanics or how something like this could be implemented. Let me be argumentative:

Problem #1: unbalancing, if only the top 2 ranks can start an attack on a base then how will multi-guild attacks happen? It’s a huge nurf to both Clan and Omni's ability to act offensively. In order for 3-4 Orgs to launch an attack so that each of the orgs members would be able to attack the turrets, guardians, and CT all 3-4 of the orgs would need leadership at EVERY attack, and attacks that were meant as distractions, or lures would be very hard to coordinate, if not impossible. Since you always make these posts with some ulterior motive, I can only assume you have some plot of land you want to hug like baby, and never let go of. 250 bases as it is can only be taken down by 3-4 days of attrition and use of CC bugs, now if only 1 or 2 orgs could work together easily and a lot of other people who want to help, are there to help, but can't help because their leadership is offline or busy doing something else on-line like say DEFENDING their own base, than is a whole org to just stand around and watch at the target because they can't attack towers? Does that sound like fun?

Problem #2: How do towers in 25% gas react to players that are not enabled to attack them? Do they attack these players and leave the players helpless to fight back, or can these players work as "tower immune" scouts that can gank defenders in 25% gas without those defenders gaining support from their towers? Or do the towers attack the players, and the players can fight back, but a guild war is not started? Can't you see all the exploits here? A guild of nothing but applicants and an ALT leader, that run around ganking towers without starting guild wars? Towers killing players that can't fight back, and can't participate in the fun because of absent leadership? Or whole orgs at tower battles, immune to tower defenses, just there to gank defenders and clutter up CC? It just CAN'T be done. If you are going to post a stupid idea like this please take the time to think through how it would work in terms of game mechanics.

This is your typical Coldstrike half-baked idea, no thought given on how to implement this without massive exploits, just fix it because something bad happened to you once and now you are mad. So you come up with this stupid idea, which you haven't thought out at all, instead of taking responsibility for recruiting idiots or spies into your guild. It's such a child's mentality, to fail to realize that when something happens to you, it's not partially your fault for letting it happen.

You once said somewhere, "If you are not a combat class you have no business in a PVP zone", well guess what, if you have no leadership skills you have no business being a leader. A big part of being a leader, is knowing who is follows you.

Now, if you want to be argumentative, then post your argument, and explain in terms of game mechanics how this half-baked idea would work, and not completely NURF multi-guild offensive strikes, and NURF 90% of the players abilities to PARTICIPATE in the booster pack they just PAID for, because everything they do besides help defend a base will depend on having a leader standing next to them, and there won't be anything to do at that base because one or two orgs will be attacking a tower defended by 6 orgs. Again, another thoughtless, “make the game more fun for me at everyone’s expense” Coldstrike idea.

BTW I hope they do fix the pet attacking towers without sending attack messages bug, you will notice there are lots of threads I don't reply to, many of them I don't even read, that one I did, and there were unanimous, and intelligent replies adequately representing the thread. It's a bug: it needs to be fixed. Stupid red herring, but what can I expect from you?

Who can start a guild war, however, is working fine. What this game doesn’t need is even MORE cumbersome rules to bog down the speed at which things can be done. You got your /org kick command, if YOU only want the guild to fight when YOU say so and YOU feel like it, make an edict in your guild, and be a GOOD leader.

What I do understand without a shadow of a doubt is that you can't fix STUPID.

[Coldstrike]

Hahaha, I laugh now. I wasn't being argumentative before; I was being insulting because I'm sick of your whiney posts that just say FIX THIS without any thoughts to game mechanics or how something like this could be implemented.

No, if you bother to read the topic, it says "Rule change proposal". I'm not demanding a fix, I'm suggesting a change. And I really don't see a lot of issues in the game mechanincs preventing it.

Problem #1: unbalancing, if only the top 2 ranks can start an attack on a base then how will multi-guild attacks happen? It’s a huge nurf to both Clan and Omni's ability to act offensively. In order for 3-4 Orgs to launch an attack so that each of the orgs members would be able to attack the turrets, guardians, and CT all 3-4 of the orgs would need leadership at EVERY attack, and attacks that were meant as distractions, or lures would be very hard to coordinate, if not impossible. Since you always make these posts with some ulterior motive, I can only assume you have some plot of land you want to hug like baby, and never let go of. 250 bases as it is can only be taken down by 3-4 days of attrition and use of CC bugs, now if only 1 or 2 orgs could work together easily and a lot of other people who want to help, are there to help, but can't help because their leadership is offline or busy doing something else on-line like say DEFENDING their own base, than is a whole org to just stand around and watch at the target because they can't attack towers? Does that sound like fun?

You obviously only read what you want to read.. I already said that the "top 2 ranks" was chosen as an arbitrary number, and that it in principle would work just as well if all except applicants can attack. Make it definable for each org, so everyone can decide for themself how they want their clan organized for all I care.

If 3-4 organizations are to launch an attack, I do not find it unreasonable that each of them have at least one non applicant (or whatever rank limit is set) that can travel to the conflict location and press a button to allow the clan to enter war. If the organizations in question only has applicants online at any given time, then they got more serious issues than not being able to go to war. And if all online non applicants are against going to war, then I really don't see any reason why the applicants should be allowed to start one. And if the leadership is busy defending, why should the applicants be out attacking? That does not make any sense at all.

My "motives" for this suggestion are:

1. To allow organizations to take up applicants without running the risk of them entering the whole organization into war at the most inapropriate times, thereby allowing them to screen members before they are given this right.

2. To allow those of us on the servers who actually wants to PvP and fight people the ability to go and do so without having to worry about forcing the whole clan into war and forcing 50 people to defend a base for 2 hours just so we can go find some decent PvP. Sure, people can go unguilded and do this, but people like the social aspect of a guild.

Damn, I'm really evil aren't I?

Problem #2: How do towers in 25% gas react to players that are not enabled to attack them? Do they attack these players and leave the players helpless to fight back, or can these players work as "tower immune" scouts that can gank defenders in 25% gas without those defenders gaining support from their towers? Or do the towers attack the players, and the players can fight back, but a guild war is not started? Can't you see all the exploits here? A guild of nothing but applicants and an ALT leader, that run around ganking towers without starting guild wars? Towers killing players that can't fight back, and can't participate in the fun because of absent leadership? Or whole orgs at tower battles, immune to tower defenses, just there to gank defenders and clutter up CC? It just CAN'T be done. If you are going to post a stupid idea like this please take the time to think through how it would work in terms of game mechanics.

A person would of course take damage from towers shooting at them, they would just be prevented from shooting back at them unless a non applicant is a) online and b) willing to put the org into a state of war. I'm sure a lot of people would be willing to accept having the risk of a couple of towers shooting at them to have some PvP fun.

I really can't see any exploits here.

You once said somewhere, "If you are not a combat class you have no business in a PVP zone".

I might have said this, and I might not have said this. And without knowing the context it supposedly was said in I'm not going to comment on it. But many people have said this, and now I even have a quote of you saying it. I really don't see why it has any relevance in this post in the first place.

[Czarina]

Originally posted by Jynne

Additional people from other organizations there will not cause their bases to go into a state of war for any reason, even if they're doing the bulk of the damage to the towers. Once the shield disabler has been used by one organization, that base's shields can't be disabled again by someone else.

sounds like a great plan, now all any guild needs is to put a few alts in a created guild that owns no land, so that they can attack without ever being attacked except during their 25% period.
jk...

I'm just pointed out that this can and will be abused by people.

[Elektro]

Anyone who uses the word "NURF" in their sig shouldn't be taken very seriously. My 2 cents.

[______________Insida]

I agree with Elektro.

[svendor]

hehe

[_____Real Kinky Ityn]

So to summarize, Coldstrike, what you want to be able to do is go to a raid and gank defenders without putting your towers at risk. That may be the stupidest thing I have ever heard, you want to kill the players of an org at their little patch of land and not be open to any kind of retaliation.

Just go to fricking 2ho if you can't take some risks.

[trellame]

Originally posted by Ityn
So to summarize, Coldstrike, what you want to be able to do is go to a raid and gank defenders without putting your towers at risk. That may be the stupidest thing I have ever heard, you want to kill the players of an org at their little patch of land and not be open to any kind of retaliation.

Just go to fricking 2ho if you can't take some risks.

Umm... you can "go to a raid and gank defenders without putting your towers at risk."

Your towers are only put at risk if you attack someone else's towers.

[Snuble]

Apart from the rare occasions where a tower decides your a nice target and hit that damage shield *ooops*

To paint it black. Towers are for the big guilds and the 24/7 players. If you want anything cool in this game, be prepared to spend the next 3 months blitzing missions, or try to join one of the 60 people raids where you'll most likely get screwed on any loot at all. And on top of that, your previous safe spot, your org, is now the place where you'll be verbally assaulted for any mistakes you happen to do.

I became sick when a low member of our guild accidentaly hit a tower, not because of what he did, but because of the reaction that was shown on org channel afterwards.

Maybe some of the previous wolf callers where right, we are on a downward spiral towards a game filled with teens and mentaly unstable people with too much spare time...

/rant off

(on the other hand, that sounds like the average office )

[_____Real Kinky Ityn]

Originally posted by Trellame



Umm... you can "go to a raid and gank defenders without putting your towers at risk."

Your towers are only put at risk if you attack someone else's towers.

Unless you just stand in the middle of the tower killing crowd doing nothing, you will get agg from a tower sooner or later and I think just about everyone uses some kind of reflect. If you chase a defender good chance you are going to trigger it. Doesn't it make sense that if you are there helping destroy a tower complex by killing the defenders, that you stand a risk of getting your org involoved in the fight?