Tonights Raid

[Brutal Truuth]

Thank you on the feed back Lucien

1) whats the range of the towers ? Sevral times i was able to atack a tower and it wouldnt attack me back . Is this becuase of a range issue or something else ?


Its insane to think that 80 - 100 omni came and attack our base . Its even more insane to think that they were allowed to . A hard cap needs to be placed or The warp needs to be taken out. Defenders should always have the advantage , but hoinestly after dieing so much last night , I dont see that advantage . There couldnt be more then 40 of us and of that 40 maybe 15-20 were guildies. It hurts to hear in chat "***** , CC just warped me to somewhere "

I think alot of us agree when we state " Warping sucks "

[Razzitazz]

I'm not sure about the crowd control even though I understand what trying to be done.

Honestly, I would rather leave everthing alone, keep trying to do things to optimize massive battles (hack into Dark Age of Camelots code if you have to) and ill just run in Atari mode before a huge battle. The real trouble is when you get past the zone hugging. You want a strong group defending your tower, of course. You want people to try to assault, being taken down in the process (or breaking through). CC is so detatching us from the "wars" that NW is supposed to be.

1) Thats sort of a strange question, obviously trying to get us to like crowd control. Its like a parent saying to the child "Do you want to eat this food, or go to bed", when you can obviously serve another dish. I don't like crowd control overall. The dream of all omni vs. all clan that was promised is what I want. If you can't have 20vs20 or more, how can there ever be a war?

2. Yes, 100%. If you plan our ways of attack and place teams of defenders in different spots, crowd control actually works ok. This is what happened at the end of the Redemption base, after many of us had to be disoriented and killed do to being slingshotted into enemy hands. But who can plan a defense when we don't know about it? Defenders will always lose bases if they have to fight through the CC to get teams/plans laid out while dying to omni and losing their bases.

3. I really don't see how it could be. It could be a temporary solution until a better way is introduced, I see that. But for a game that you are supposed to be immersed in seeing "You are entering full etc." is just as annoying as seeing "Zone was not initiated in server" or "Server lost".

[Brutal Truuth]

Originally posted by Lucien
Looking for feedback
I'd like some feedback from you guys on the following questions:
1. Which is worse, not being able to defend your base, or the current crowd control system?
2. With the current implimentation of crowd control do you feel that if you control your forces better it will affect you less? (ie have people stand on opposite sides of the towers, split up into multiple attack groups etc)
3. If we fix the current issues with crowd control will it be a more acceptable solution?

1) I want to defend my base and that of others but the CC you have inplace wont allow my doc to heal (she gets warped away)

2) spliting the forces to be on either side of a tower isnt the answer . Omnis/clan dont attack the CT right off , we destroy the surrounding towers first to get rid of the reflect on the tower. A nice solution would be to split the area into 4 difrent CC zones. effectively splitting the forces would then be plausable.

3) it depends on what the fixs are. I've been to raids where CC worked to repeal attackers an i've been to raids where the CC expeled defenders. I want to see CC work but at what expense ?

[_______________Vyker]

Actually the 2nd attack you state went "so well with CC working" was a complete travesty of poor coding imo.

Numerous times you had a group of clan and a group of omni just staring at each other because NEITHER could reach the other one due to huge rubber banding issues.

Also explain to me how a melee class fits into this now? They are unable to get in close enough to do anything because they're being warped all over the place.

Lets review what CC is supposed to accomplish. 30 vs 30 at a 250 base. You will never take the base.
30 people would take 10 min to drop a single 250 turret/guardian. Add in 30 defenders trying to kill the 30 people trying to kill said turret/guardian and you have a pointless waste of time.

As stated by PiercingEvil... Fix the code, optimize it do something. As it is with CC you just ruined the one truely fun aspect of this game.

In closing what I would like to know is why one day there is no CC in some places then suddenly "poof" it's there the next. If your going to use this code that you state, " Redemption members were angry because they couldn't even get into the area to defend their towers, I myself got 1 character stuck in a crash loop there. " Enable it in every single playfield. {Moderator: Lay off the petty accusations.}


To recap the Redemption 2nd attack.
Lucien - "There were certainly more than 30 people attacking the controller, and many in the area were not in combat at all. It was quite obvious that if you controlled the positioning of your groups around the controller you could avoid the crowd control."

We had finally tried breaking into 4 smaller groups to try and work around CC that way. What happened was the defenders were able to send large forces to the area and wipe the smaller groups trying to work around bad code. After this we gave up. It was a fruitless excersize in futilty. We weren't beaten by good defenses or defenders. We were beaten by code that reduced our moral to zip.

[_____________Rolller]

CC changes game dynamics in a number of ways.

1. It is now worthless to make teams before defending or attacking. With the warping and bouncing it breaks teams up to where you will have members spread out beyond the range to assist each other.

2. Makes attacking even more difficult. You now have to deal with towers + defenders in small groups. This tips the scale towards defenders in a large way.

3. Breaks the flow of the game. Personally when I wanna charge a group of clanners like the nut I am. It is upseting to hit magical invisible walls that throw me back. It's very unrealistic to be told you can't go where you want to cause too many people are there already.


CC while a good attempt at solving the lag issue is not worth the headaches it causes.

[Razzitazz]

Originally posted by Rolller

CC while a good attempt at solving the lag issue is not worth the headaches it causes.

Its not even an attempt to solve the lag issue, its a quick fix that seems to be the norm from Funcom.

Not that I really blame them, I'm sure they want large scale, full gfx, mass battles as much as we do. We all know how fun 100 vs 100 fights could be.

[Brutal Truuth]

/me starts a campfire to sit and watch the 100 vs 100 battle of the Lands

Anyone have some marsh mellows ?

[Brutal Truuth]

I have 1 question

Is CC random ? Sometimes i can get into an area and others i cant , sometimes im warped just outside pvp and others im warped waaaaaay out in east bum**** . So is CC random code ?

BtW , Bump

[Phinger]

I personally have to say Funcom is caught in a bind.

They dont have crowd control......then lag sets in.....This can play into either the attackers or defenders hands depending on numbers.

We can see above all the fragmentation of attacks and though yes defenders get warped away......it actually favours the defence Since any mighty attack force slowly becomes eroded by the Crowd control.....and by the time the final assualt where you need a lot of fire power to be brought to bear on a base....hardly anyone is near the control tower or can get to it.

Solution currently I think remove the Crowd control....and try something else. Crowd control be it for defenders or Attackers is a excercise in frustration. LAg was frusttrating but hell I still had fun. CC just annoys the crap out of me.

Make everything weaker in a base....maybe all the towers a lot less HP and keep the controllers as is..... but reduce the window of oppurtnity to destroy a base. instead of the current 5 window...reduce it to 3 or maybe 2. If a you want to attack set a different way to iniate war. Thus defenders have time to rally to a base.

But Crowd control sucks is my opinion.

Phinger

[Akarah]

crowd control does indeed make it impossible for me to move around due to the "rubber banding" as some people have called it (very good description, felt like a tilt-o-whirl.. hehe)

also is there regard given to level in crowd control? could someone fill an area with 30 lvl 2 characters? or do they get warped out as new people arrive...

also really annoying that when i finally could get close enough to a tower to do damage, i would get warped to 100x100-inverted. and of course being warped back when i'm trying to flee.. that's just baffling, and very frustrating

please fix crowd control.. it behaves as a very significant nerf to melee weapons users.

thank you.


/Akarah

[Gunnandahalf]

Its a good idea in theory, but when you have big battles like this one it just doesnt work

I was there with my trader, and basically what it was was the Clans on one side, and the omni on the other

You would try to walk up to the omnis and get put backwards
The omnis would try to come to us and then they would be put backwards

Occasionally one of them would be teleported to our side and got owned, and likewise with us

There needs to be a change, because with the amount of people that are over 150+ these days, big scale war cant work

although, the first one everyone lagged out... So i dunno, maybe make a force model command so everyone doesnt load and lag as much... :P

Remove CC!

[Razzitazz]

Yeah, CC sucks.

While I hate lag and I would ***** non-stop about how ****ty the Funcom servers were, I would rather run in Atari mode and /char /viewdist 10 then have to deal with this.

[____________Intrepid]

I think we can all agree that CC needs some tweaking. But to go without in my opinion is even worse. Eventually it will be tweaked to where it is acceptable to both attackers and defenders. No it will never be perfect as long as a system like this is needed to control the lag.

[Lucien]

Just some information before I start going through the posts. We did some rebalancing of the servers last night, that means we moved some playfields to balance load between the servers.

After the notum wars was released this has become much more difficult for our operations team since people more around in large groups much more.

Perpetual Wastelands benefited from this last night later on in the battle

[______________Pangur]

As a melee user I am very often not able to get close enough to a tower or enemy to do damage, because of your crowd control system. Ranged weapon user don't have these problems and it's funny when you are standing next to one who has engaged a tower but you can't cross the 15m gap to the tower without triggering the rubber band effect. It gets worse when ranged weapon users fire at you and there is no way to reach them because you get warped back every 10 meters.

I am already easy prey for the totally overpowered snares/roots in this game and CC makes it even more frustrating.

[Brutal Truuth]

We did some rebalancing of the servers last night, that means we moved some playfields to balance load between the servers.

Perpetual Wastelands benefited from this last night later on in the battle

We will see Gonna have to attack a base and see how well the server holds up .

my only thought though is : Will you have to do that with all PF's each time there is a massive attack ? Or will you just keep watch to see which ones get the most traffic and adjust them according to Use ?

[-kromoz-]

and what about upgrading ALL servers ?
I mean EACH day since launch there's at least one server going down, without counting those lagging as hell
before any new patch/extension I'd like to see the servers upgraded, this is the biggest problem of AO imo

[assassimon]

I don't see CC as a solution at all, I only see it as a simple temp fix until you upgrade your servers and manage to get better code or something so it can handle the people.

During the attack on Red I was only on chat ,from work, and tried to get people there, so can't say much on that.


The raid on DSA was ok in the beginning, was many clanners, so all Apoc moved to north of base to take out towers from there and other clanners used other sides, so worked pretty well.

The problems started when we got closer to Controller and the clanners got close, I was playing my MA, had absolutly no chance at all to get close enought to towers so I could attack, got warped back all the time and then I got warped to 100x100 and had to terminate to get away....

Logged in my fixer instead because most people with range could atleast shoot at the towers, worked ok when I managed to get around the CC and attack from a place with less people (this was when there was like 4 towers + controller) we kept taking down the towers and omnis that attacked until only 1 tower and controller was left...

Now very few omnis was there (read here it was becasue of crash loop) but we were many clanners, now the CC got really bad, alot of people couldn't even get close enought with range to attack towers, I got warped 4 times to 100 x100 and had to grid out (most of the times so many got warped to 100x100 so we started full teams there and warped out, once it was over 10 people stuck there at same time).

We took down the last tower and started attacking controller (some attacked it before), no omnis at all there now, after awhile some come from south, but most of us could just "concentrate" on the controller, but because of CC soo many got warped away all the time, teams split up and stuff like that, we couldn't take down the controller even if we shoot at it for around 1h30min.

We had alot of people there, but we wasn't THAT many, if we wouldn't have a CC system, I really doubt that many of us would go LD or lag out too bad.

This was only how the attack was for me, I was/is extremly angry of this really bad system.

It seems like you guys reading this thread so I really have to ask you why you totally ignore our other posts in this issue, there are many threads about CC and how bad it worked, totally ignored, we started threads already in beta about how impossible it was to take down a big ql250 base with that little time we had (DSA base is a really small ql250 base, and we didn't have time for that..)you totally ignored it, and even made towers harder...


It's us players that really know how the game works, it's we that are playing (I know you play too, but very few of you play at higher lvl) so you really need to pay more attention when we post about big issues, doesn't work to only test abit and look at your numbers, that's not how the game works.


And now to answer the questions:

1. The current CC doesn't work at all, seems like the defenders got LD anyway, I know I would get extremly pissed if I had no chance to protect my base, that's for sure and I'm also extremly pissed of how this CC work, so I would say that none of them is an option.

2. Works in the beginning when base is bigger so you are far away from the others, doesn't work at all when we getting closer to middle, so I would say that the CC won't affect me less even if we organize better in the end.

3. Need to know more what you think current issues are, for me it will never be ok if I can't get close enought to a tower to hit it with melee, will never be ok to get warped away all the time like a damn ping pong ball.

A "fix" for all people going LD...

Wouldn't it be possible to change the login abit so it works like it does if you get insta killed afew times in a row, you get warped to clan/omni town, could be like if you try to log in same char 3 times after eachother, within 2min, you get an option to get warped to your last save location, I have no idea how hard it would be to do, but it would, imo, be a pretty good solution instead of getting stuck in crash loop.

I think you should remove this CC system right away, or change the numbers so only if we are ALOT people there we get warped away, I think lag and some LD is alot better than this CC system.

[____________Factotum]

you did some it up well azz...

nothing to add from our side....(DSA)

we suffered the same....

sadly these wonderful battles have to be decided by bugs and totally useless and not working FC features.

:....(

[__________Spacegipsy]

Lucien the battle that you witnessed in PW that went well, must have been the one on Saturday night, it seemed much better than Friday and especially today.

Today was a mess, cuz - as Factotum already mentioned - none of the defenders could get in. It looked like plenty Clanners had logged out there and after they had logged in CC prevented us from getting there.

Just about all of our High Lvls were stuck in Crash Loops, so the Clanners could beat on the Base without any defenders being there.
The ARK that finally came, even admitted to things being wrong with CC today... and that we lost our Base due to a bug. Well, great!

Please fix it asap, this situation is absolutely unbearable!!!