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Thread: Soloing and Cooperation

  1. #21

    Angry Go through all the professions...

    Sounds fimiliar...oh wait we don't need to go through them all...everyone knows the weakest class in the game now...with nothing unique about us we are the weakest class...you know who i am talking about...FIXERS

    FIX US SOMETIME SOON...we are useless to almost any team, because we have nothing unique...and don't tell me run buffs are good because they are almost worthless in team fights, they lower all attack damages...but if your in a situation where you need to run they are handy, but not enough so to make sure you have a fixer when hunting {whatever mob}...

    B

  2. #22
    As a doctor I'd like:

    To be able to move the 'Team' screen, so that I don't have keep my eyes glued to the top right of the screen. Please let me drag it around.

    I'd also like if you'd fix the often laggy health display - the amount of times people have screamed HEAL ME PLZ when they've been full to everyone else in the team can't be counted on all my fingers and toes..

    Give classes more useful things.. the only reason we ever want an MA is for a crit buff. I always want an NT for Humidity Extractor. I think the only reason you'd EVER invite a fixer is for roots, and you'd have to be desperate. Also, PLEASE increase the range on the engineer aura buffs and possibly make them team only. It's really annoying to be spammed by them as engineers run around, and I have to hug my team engineer to keep them on.

    We need better weapons for a lot of classes to make them wanted - it's all good and dandy to have great roots, but if I could take an enf with a QL200 hammer instead.. ehh...

    Also, as a side note, I believe EVERY profession should have some *fun* nanos at the higher levels to make the end more sweet - advs have pit lizard, engys have slayerdroid transferece - that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Doesn't necessarily have to be a morph, but it would be really nice to give us all something to look forward to. I know, for example, as a doctor, a lot of people get very tired of playing our profession because hitting '1' to heal for 200 levels gets a little boring. Yes, there is some strategy involved, and I do enjoy holding the lives of my team in my hands, but it would make it a lot more fun to have some 'cool' nanos too.

    And please, please, please - this is unrelated, but *please* make some more of the weapons viable choices. I beg you. I'm not asking you to nerf the current ones, I'm asking you to add some decent ones or fix the others. Just take a look at some of them..
    Velveeta - The best atrox doctor on Rubi-Ka 1!
    Aiboforcen - A change of pace..
    Shikhi - The return!

    Digital Gunfire - Music to level by.

  3. #23

    Unhappy Hmm you said it all in your text

    When looking at the text I sure miss one thing, where is the NT mentioned? I guess the reason is that NT's are not supposed to be either usefull in teams, or have fun soling. As it is now NT is a real pain to play (Let me add that I've just come back to ao, have never had a char over lvl 30, so my experience is on that lvl). Im currently lvl 18 with my nt, and when grouping up with other people I always feel pretty useless for the team. Sure I got humidity with is great for especially a doc... but thats it. My damage is a joke. I got ql30 implants maxing my important skills, and the best nukes for my lvl.. still I have experienced being outdamaged by people 4 levels below me. (That is the dmg I make on 10 sec, they can do on about half the time). I know that raising the dmg of the nt's nukes could risk in making the profession 2 strong, but as it is now nt's is really a gimped profession. If you read the NT board you will sure discover a general anger over the way the nt's are treated now. What I find really frustrating is that FC doesnt answer us what is to happend with the nt profession. Do you recon that there need to be done some tweaking... or are we left in our current situation. At least you could answer us so that we can decide what 2 do from there.

    Talking about soloing, the problem with nuke dmg returns. I have never been able to more than a 60% mission, and just doing 50% missions means a hell lot of recharging. I know that people who has higher lvl chars can give money to their nt's, but in my case where nt is my only char, I think I should be given a chance as well. If I want to get on top of a mission, I need to run a really large number of missions on 20-25% to earn for some armor without lvling. This procedure has to be repeated every 5lvl or so. I really wanna know if it is suppose to be like this? Isnt it supposed to be fun soloing with an nt, without getting money from other chars? Currently NT is the only prof I that seems interesting for me to play, so if nt's dont get some loving I guess that I could just as well leave AO.. again.

    Since I guess you guys will actually be reading your own thread, I got a little pray for you here. PLZ PLZ become more visibel. Why don't you tell us more of what is going on? Are you affraid that some players will leave in case they hear the truth? Are you affraid that that other companies will steal your ideas? It cant be true that you cant answer the questions people ask you. Often, when you reply, it is something like "I'll check with the guys programming". FFS your crew must all be aware what plan, what attitude you have against different suggestions. I cant see how your marketing people have been able to create so much attention on this game, and then forget to tell you that relation with the gamers is actually important. So I pray that you will start giving us some more info, showing that you are alive and actually listening. You have just got yourself a new media that is just waiting to be used to that. I suggest you arrange a creators hour (Some planetarion players may recon this :-) once every week, with some infos from your side, status on different in-progress-stuff and perhaps even possibility to ask questions. This will defintly profit in 2 way. It will improve the relationship with your customers, and it will be a great way to kickstart irc, so that we can get the community spread to that media.

  4. #24

    My opinions

    Gaute Godager, Game Director..

    You say that you have gamed with the players with on RK 1 & 2, and that it seems to you, that sometimes, we players are *so used to soloing*.. Hello ... which game ? AO ?

    In my opinion, can a Doctor profession.. tank ???.. Why should a Doctor profession need ANY ' Aggression Enhancers or Nanos ' to keep the crits on them.. A Doc has no need of nanos to do this.. as they have automatic ' Aggression Enhancers ' the second they cast their Nanos.. of Single Healing, and or Team Healing.

    Do the Healers.. have any purpose in the game ?.. sure we do. Who else would get called all sorts of profane names when another player dies ?
    And your crits dropped in 5 - 10 secs.. How intresting.
    I do like the idea of more ' unpredictability of monster spawns ' but with that and the need for more healers in a mission, comes the battle for the ability to *be able* to cast any nano.. at all.

    As for the ' crowd control ' Sorry.. but Im a of a Doctor profession, and I have NO type of ' crowd control ' what so ever or as discussed here in this paragraph.

    In the support people, thank you.. something positive there. Better missions with more Unique loot. But something MORE than a weapon or some low lvl map.

    Socialisation ?. Is AO to hectic .. to fast paced .. ?
    Give me something to do.

    Does the GUI support you in your effort?

    Is the Map GUI with your team members listed, the team GUI with health and nano enough for you to cooperate? Any good suggestions here?
    FIX THE THING!
    That is my best suggestion that I can give on it. There is nothing worse than a Health bar to show an player at full health, when they are actually almost dead.

    And finally, and most suprising.. something very positive under ' nerfing your abilities ' Very good ideas and suggestions to make missions more enjoyable.. it would be nice to see something of what you have mentioned here, if only part. I do have one exception to these suggestions:

    **Give monsters a more complex AI when you meet them with a team. Let them pick dangerous opponents, basically be "nastier", more challenging... (More fun?) ** ~ With the aggro set like it is for the healers.. Doctors will be almost unplayable.

    ** Let me stress again that this should in no way change the way you solo, or your ability to solo. Those aspects should remain as good as they are today. **

    Sorry, but they are not, .. Good.

    Rosey,
    Healer.

  5. #25
    Hi, I play a lvl 83 agent, and a lvl 23 crat. First off I'd like to say that 'tanks' and healers are whats in demand for a team, then once you have a tank and healer, just fill in the rest with whatever, an MP would be good, or pet class. One thing you can do to make the other classes such as the agent :P more wanted in groups, is make the effect of roots and slowdowns and such more effective, ALL roots break too easy, especially in teaming, because teams fight mobs that are way higher in level then they are, because they are a team and can handle it, but the problem is that all the nanos the team can use are usless against it because it passes ALL checks. The only nanos that are good are healing ones or buffs. Even soloing my roots break too easy.

    You talk about making smarter mobs for teams and such, and spontanious spawns of bigger mobs, i think thats a good idea BUT not if we cant keep them at bay, our roots are useless, our other nanos are useless because they are too weak.

    In short, strengthen all roots and other nanos that can help a team, then us 'support' classes can actually support the healers and tanks. And go through EVERY class and make sure or add something NEW and UNIQUE to the class to make it wanted in a team. If your going to do that you cant just release one nano per profession PER PATCH, you should have it all ready for ONE patch.

  6. #26

    Well...

    The boss spawn thingy is a good idea... The most needed one is for you to go through each and everyone of the profs and adjust them! I say you make a poll that only characters over lvl 100 should post too! That way you will notise what classes and are messed upp, and how you should fix them... Every class should have a posision in a team.
    I like the team missions someone here had an idea about, where all classes were needed
    I have one thing to say about your coment on how good the soloing is ingame... it isnt good! Everyone cant solo and I know that someone at FC knows that! I have been in touch with support because of my nanomage NT not able to solo even green mobs anymore and he told me that the nanomage NT would only be good for helping out in teams, which would be true if this over equipping was stopped.
    MOBs dont need to be tougher, buyt it would be fun to see some that act smarter

    Thats what I have to say. It was a nice change to see you actualy care about thous apsects of the game

    Ymend

    PS. apolegies for my bad spelling.

  7. #27

    Soloing/Grouping

    To wit..here's a lot of the issues I see, having been a veteran player of EQ where the game is soley focused on teamplay.

    1) Lack of adequate HP for many classes - Nano-Technicians can harness a incredible amount of power, but unfortunately, the aggro system means that when the NT shines using the best and most powerful Nano-Programs in critical situations, they will be the first to die. The Enfraam's line of HP/AC buffs are negligible, adding very little in the way of useful HP to a NT, or AC both. Many other classes are similiarly crippled. In -theory- a NT should be able to solo yellows, greens without issue yet I know many NTs who simply cannot, even with extremely adequate gear for their level.

    As a point of reference, remember the Ranger controversy from EQ where Rangers could produce a outstanding amount of damage, but their defensive abilities were so lacking they died repeatedly, on a regular basis.

    Essentially with this issue, many classes who have this problem are forced into being 'second best' cause they cannot shine due to inherent limitations beyond their control.

    2) Team statistics - The HP/Nano indicator (Tab 5) is pathetically inadequate for team play..many times I have died, the doc has reported, as have others in the party, that my HP shows full on their screen, while I am dying or near dead. Without a reliable indicator for the healing classes to utilize to heal hurt party members, the overall cohesion of team play is set back greatly. Fixing this to have a more accurate, faster refresh/update would be highly useful. In short, this item doesn't work, and people are dying left-right-front-and-center due to this.

    3) Crowd control Nanos/abilities are poor..again for NTs, Project Calm and it's own line is erratic, and unpredictable even under the most controlled of circumstances..it should be immediate. I have many times Calmed a NPC and watched it shoot me even with the orange-yellow aura around it multiple times, killing me.
    In short, these kind of situations don't work either, again resulting in player death.

    4) Root nanoprograms - These are pretty useless with the 40 M cap because NPCs seem to ignore ranges, shooting through walls, distances greater than 40 M, and etc...rooting a NPC to keep it at bay is futile cause the NPC will still attack you even at a impossible range. In short, see above, and raise the 40M cap to 60 or 80 M so that rooting capable classes don't lose a large quantity of IP in Nano skills which are pointless. (Fixers come to mind - Blue/light blue skills)


    Having said this..alot of AO players _are_ ignorant (NOT stupid) to varying degrees of how to participate in a real team atmosphere. EQ was great to teach this because in EQ soloing after a certain level range was impossible and so grouping became a forced issue..group or do not level. Team players began to realize the importance of Clerics, Druids, the various classes there.

    In AO, many people do not recognize the potential or best or group-adding specialties a class may have due to the IP system which presents extreme variation even in the same class. I know some Enforcers, over level 100, who have NO Nano skills or very low ones..this is a example.

    Were there some defining class abilities that others sought out...I.E.. "Oooh Traders are THE crowd control experts.." or " Fixers are THE pullers.." or "Get a NT we need heavy and steady firepower to hurt these.." or "Get a Solder..we want the NT to root it and have the Soldier soften it up before we move into range"..or whatever. Defining characteristics are severly lacking in AO..even in RL people specialize in their jobs..Lawyer, or say Programmer..all these are vague ..until you say..Criminal Trial Lawyer, or Visual Basic/Visual C programmer..suddenly..you know what you need them for.

    And lastly, for the love of God, please add a INT and PSY buff to ANY class that is past general buffs, and NOT I repeat NOT self-only. NTs again, as well as other INT/PSY classes, are severely hampered by the lack of these nanoprograms to augument their abilities.

    Take as a example:

    STR/STA - Iron Circle, Essense Buff, General Buff
    AGI - Feline Grace, General Buff
    SENSE - Enhanced Senses, General Buff
    INT - General Buff
    PSY - General Buff

    Does this look disproportionate to anyone else?

    Culann,
    RK 1
    Clan Outcast

  8. #28

    Re: Go through all the professions...

    Originally posted by Bfire
    Sounds fimiliar...oh wait we don't need to go through them all...everyone knows the weakest class in the game now...with nothing unique about us we are the weakest class...you know who i am talking about...FIXERS

    FIX US SOMETIME SOON...we are useless to almost any team, because we have nothing unique...and don't tell me run buffs are good because they are almost worthless in team fights, they lower all attack damages...but if your in a situation where you need to run they are handy, but not enough so to make sure you have a fixer when hunting {whatever mob}...

    B
    At least you have grid armor

  9. #29
    The

    "Imagine going to the mines in Mutant Domains or Lush Fields to fight monsters. Suddenly, larger and tougher monsters spawn among its fellow "cannonfodder" friends. It would have more hit-points, higher damage output, and a higher chance of unique item-drops (Loot). Would that be fun, or a pain in the ...?"

    would be really good if it was in AO

  10. #30
    Everyone should be able to solo at everytime if they want, whatever the prof. I don't think it's the most interesting thing to do in a mmorpg, but this is how things are suposed to work.
    I would like real team missions (from the team missions terminal). Everyone involved in a team mission should be able to get a token (everyone is at risk, aren't they).

  11. #31
    I'm all for adding some limited crowd/aggro-control type nanos to a few more professions...
    Maybe a bit different than the existing ones to provide more variety in strategy...
    For instance, a nano to lower the aggro of the mobs for a particular target would be great to protect the doc, although it may have the downside of increasing the aggro toward all the other members of the team. (in fact I don't even know if it doesn't exist yet for some profession - I don't know the aggro management nanos well)

    Also, /assist was a great addition, but I think this command would be very useful:

    /assistpet - target the engineer/MP/crat, and use this command to do a /assist on his bot/attack pet

    It would make it possible to just press two keys to attack the tank's target if the tank is a pet, like it is possible currently if the tank is a player.

    The boss mob which spawns when you kill monsters very fast could be a great thing... I lost a lot of exp because of lifebleeders at Lush NW camp, but I find they are a very interesting factor of boredom breaking (especially when the only thing they break is boredom - the part where they break me isn't mandatory for the fun of it all :))
    Last edited by MORB; Jan 22nd, 2002 at 17:49:49.

  12. #32

    Re: Re: Go through all the professions...

    Originally posted by eleetist


    At least you have grid armor
    I really hope that that was a joke?

  13. #33
    We have tried to make Anarchy Online an MMORPG where you can solo through a large part of your gaming experience, if this is indeed what you want to do.
    Soloing is good if you don't have a lot of time on your hands, but it's often too boring. The missions part is the most boring, since it's soo predictable. It's very easy at low levels as long as you keep your fighting abilities high enough (and if you don't it isn't really a problem).. when you hit 40 it gets a bit harder for some classes and fights take much longer solo. When you hit 80, it takes 8 minutes to kill a yellow mob. If you still are able to, at that lvl of course.

    I think it works quite well for the most parts. I know there are occurrences where people report problems fighting "experience-giving monsters" (non-grey monsters). To me, those are to be considered bugs, or imbalances, and will be looked into. It might take time, but we shall get there.
    It works 'ok' but now in the way we would like this. You are killing all the time so we want to have some surprise elements and fun in hunting.

    What I would like to ask your opinion about, is to what degree you feel you are able to cooperate well in teams.
    It all depends. I know I can trust some people but when fighting with new people, mostly at lower lvls (1-50) I often notice lack of skill in bigger fights with more monsters. Playing an MA is of course easier then playing an MP.

    ....
    it might be our (Funcom's) fault?
    50% right. You could add so much more elements for more complex and thus more fun combat. Not just 'q' and 'b' bashing (for an enforcer, some other keys for other classes)

    [quote]Thus I would like to ask you for ideas on how to improve your abilities to cooperate. For example:[quote]

    Improve teaming, teamwork and overall combat. Good idea.

    Do the professions with an adequate number of hit-points to "tank" (survive with monsters bashing them) have enough ways to keep the monsters focused on them? (As in viable "Aggression Enhancers" and Nano Programs?) Are you able to do your job?
    I saw alot of enforcers who don't even know what an agression enhancer IS. Better game documentation for n00bs might be a point.

    Do the professions that heal (Doctors, Martial Artists and Adventurers) have any use / purpose in the team? Do you really need a healer when the monsters drop in 5-10 seconds?
    It depends what kind of mobs you are hunting, and how 'red' they are. MP heal pets can easily replace the role of a doctor if not much healing is necessary. Which is a bad thing since the doctor won't have work to do.

    A natural follow up question here is: Should we increase the unpredictability of monster spawns so that they are more "surprising", and different - so that more healers are needed. (More on this later.)
    You should make an interactive spawn depending on how much teams are hunting in the area. So if there's lots of teams killing a BIG BAD MUTANT with maybe some cool loot might show up. Would be very cool.

    Do the "crowd control" (the ability to temporally suspend monsters from battle by "freezing" them, "slowing" them down, or totally "wiping" their mind) professions have any use? Do you need a Bureaucrat, Agent, Fixer or Trader to keep monsters at bay?
    Often very hard to see if a mob is charmed, if you are camping a place full of shades for example. The only thing is the nano effect above their head and the message -starting attack failed- maybe it would be better if it's more clear which is charmed.

    Agent roots are useless.
    Slow-down nano's ar rarely used.

    Trader roots are good, I had a team member (Mczero) which kept the mobs from attacking the MP's with good use of rooting tactics.

    A question to those of you venturing into static dungeons: is there any difference here?
    I haven't seen much of static dungeons. But one thing I can say is that the mobs have insane much HP and hit insane hard.

    30-70 you say? at 36 I go in, 6 lvls above the min lvl, with my MA fully buffed with good healing capacities and a few friends of course) and we get slammed by the 15 monsters in the 1st room.

    Next try two days later, the first room only has some mobs. We kill them and go on 2nd room is full of insane hard creatures.

    ¨*give up the whole thing, BAH!*¨
    don't understand me wrong I like the concept but the ranges are too wide and the mobs WAY too hard.

    Do enough professions have crowd control capabilities? Which do you lack? Suggestions?
    I think this is well balanced.

    Does support people have any real use? I have noticed many players on low levels having an inadequate number of NCUs to really take advantage of the beneficial nano programs ("buffs").
    Make NCU show up more often as mission rewards.

    Do you meet monsters that require skill and tactics to fight other than in the static dungeons?
    Nothing more then the usual tactics. Mobs in statics are just more harder even though they are grey to the higher lvls who can't kill 'em.

    Would you like us to add them, or would that seem like we are reducing your capabilities to solo?
    YESS! More tactics = better combat.

    Imagine going to the mines in Mutant Domains or Lush Fields to fight monsters. Suddenly, larger and tougher monsters spawn among its fellow "cannonfodder" friends. It would have more hit-points, higher damage output, and a higher chance of unique item-drops (Loot). Would that be fun, or a pain in the ...?
    It would be fun. Or a pain in the ass if you lose 55000xp because of it (and next lvl was 57000). Of course this is an 'imagine' thing i would be very surpised (positively) if this was coming soon.


    Do you have enough time for socialisation?
    About 40% of the population is ASSOCIAL. The only words they say are 'ding', 'grats' and 'heal me plz'

    In some other MMORPGs there is a much higher "down-time" factor. (Down-time, the time you wait before you can fight again after last battle.) You can sit for several minutes just gazing at your spellbook or such. The only thing you can do in that period is chat with your team or friends. Do you miss this? Is AO too hectic, too fast-paced? Remember the downtime is very much created for your ability to play solo, so in a team - you are a non-stop-fighting-machine. (Pardon the pun )
    Downtime isn't fun, that's a fact. But sometimes I would wish for downtime if it's just too chaotic and the team needs me. Sometimes you don't even have the time to buff up or even spend you ip.

    Does the GUI support you in your effort?Is the Map GUI with your team members listed, the team GUI with health and nano enough for you to cooperate? Any good suggestions here?
    One thing I liked about an opponent of AO in the MMORPG market was that it had a small dragable screen where you could see all your pet's health and what it was fighting or who it was healing.
    Of course we have report but then you are on the wrong shortcur bar when you really need to see where your pet is etc..

    I wouldn't dream of changing the rules in such a way that you would be less effective in what you do, or "nerfing" your abilities. What I could consider would be to make life less predictable, and in turn more rewarding. In addition there should be new ways of fighting so that tactical abilities and cooperation are more frequently needed. Examples:

    Give more professions the ability to "crowd control" to some degree. (Adventures getting lower-aggro range nanos i.e.)

    Make more interesting monster camps.

    Check for a quick death-respawn cycle. If so you increase the chance of a "boss monster" to spawn.

    They will have higher level, more hit-points, and an increased chance of dropping unique loot.

    We could do this from monster level 50 and up i.e.

    Give monsters a more complex AI when you meet them with a team. Let them pick dangerous opponents, basically be "nastier", more challenging... (More fun?)

    Go through each profession and make sure it has something unique, or at least very good, to contribute to a team in a fight.

    If you feel that this is the problem with your team, please supply suggestions of what you would like.

    Include different team-missions. Finally turn on the team-mission booths and give them tougher monsters, more of them, better loot and several levels. Maybe with a boss at the end? + Multiple reward and tokens.

    And please supply any way in which teaming up can be improved in any way! Thanks!

    Let me stress again that this should in no way change the way you solo, or your ability to solo. Those aspects should remain as good as they are today.

    Ok, that concludes my thoughts for today. I look forward to some more excellent feedback on this!

    Thank you very much

    Gaute Godager
    Game Director
    Anarchy Online
    I think your ideas are wonderful. Increase AI and cut down HP.
    High lvl content is the key to fix the game. Add new hunting grounds, make some viable loot and money-dumps for higher lvls.

  14. #34

    Thumbs down Soloing!

    Quote "We have tried to make Anarchy Online an MMORPG where you can solo through a large part of your gaming experience, if this is indeed what you want to do."



    Yes you have tryed and failed, as an Agent I simply can´t solo anymore.
    Dont tell me it´s becouse Im underequipped, Im lvl 50 with a full set of QL 90 or more implants, and a QL 120 rifle, and over 1400 AC! And even with over 120 ncus full of nanos Im having trouble soloing greens!

  15. #35
    I think you need to make a distinction from the low and high level game. I am currently L124 and since the game has changed so radically I doubt my observations for the low level game apply anymore.

    My observations on the high level game are as follows:

    1) 'Downtime' well I guess you dont realize how often team members LD or this wouldn't have come up.

    2) I think the idea of BOSS mobs is great and would make things more interesting.

    3) Throwing in 'suprises' mobs may ****e things up but be careful here. Currently the biggest threat for high level teams is the NT nukers and in particular the nano 'Izgimmers Last Word' which drops even the best tanks with damage of 9000+ points.

    4) Its tough finding the right mix of people for a balanced team. It would help if agents could actually fill the voids of more professions but with current penalties the only fp's viable to help teams are MA and MP (and with talk of MP pet removal this option will would no longer be attractive) and occasionally Trader. In addition, MAs are one of the most popular professions so the need for an agent to fp MA to give inferior crit buffs is not needed much.

    These are just my observation and my opinions.

    ....and for the love of god and and this game please NO MORE NERFs!!
    Last edited by Dealingdeath; Jan 22nd, 2002 at 18:09:37.

  16. #36

    Regarding the individual points

    Do the professions with an adequate number of hit-points to "tank" (survive with monsters bashing them) have enough ways to keep the monsters focused on them? (As in viable "Aggression Enhancers" and Nano Programs?) Are you able to do your job?
    Comment: I think so as far as true 'tanks' are concerned. Perhaps the MA needs some help with his defensive skills to be the 'elusive' steady damage dealer he was envisioned as. The Agent has trouble if he pulls Agro with an Aimed Shot as does the NT with his Nukes. The difference is that the NT can choose the level of Nuke he wants to use. The Agent has his Aimed Shot to feel useful to a group and then he might as well have a cork gun.
    Do the professions that heal (Doctors, Martial Artists and Adventurers) have any use / purpose in the team? Do you really need a healer when the monsters drop in 5-10 seconds?
    Comment: Monsters should not drop in 5-10 seconds. If this is the case then the group is fighting too easy monsters. No battle strategy can be played out if the fight is over before you can blink.
    A natural follow up question here is: Should we increase the unpredictability of monster spawns so that they are more "surprising", and different - so that more healers are needed. (More on this later.)
    Comment: Predictable spawns are garbage in any sense of the word. It leads to spawn camping and reduces the value of term 'hunting'. Actual 'hunting' in AO has little value as you can wander for tens of minutes before finding something to kill. Once you kill it, the reward is not of as much value as you can get by sitting on your ass in one spot and killing the same thing over and over again. You have a huge and beautiful world with little reason to explore and wander. If you wonder why Lush Fields is so packed, look at your 'spawns' and the reward they offer vs. 'hunting'. You have an opportunity to spread out your population a bit more (and along with that balance your server load) by making the 'hunt' more rewarding.
    Do the "crowd control" (the ability to temporally suspend monsters from battle by "freezing" them, "slowing" them down, or totally "wiping" their mind) professions have any use? Do you need a Bureaucrat, Agent, Fixer or Trader to keep monsters at bay?
    Comment: These professions are invaluable to a group (even if most groups don't realize it). The Bureaucrat has been broken recently, however, in that he cannot Charm or Fear anything a competent group would be fighting. The Agent needs some 'kick' added to his Roots and possibly a Mezz added at 100+ level. The Trader should actually, play the MOB they mind-swap with once you finish working on 'playing as a monster' from the Envisioned page. I wouldn't consider adding crowd control to any additional classes. The class identies are already muddled enough as it is. Just refine the existing classes a bit.
    A question to those of you venturing into static dungeons: is there any difference here?
    Comment: Crowd control in static dungeons is about the same as outdoor hunting. I becomes less useful (obviously) past the first room for groups doing Single Player missions. I hope that Team Missions in the future will be more like Steps of Madness or Foreman's Office that will take advantage of the crowd control professions.
    Do enough professions have crowd control capabilities? Which do you lack? Suggestions?
    Comment: I think the crowd control capabilities are more than well enough spread about. Pets can distract, MP has Mezz pet, Agent has Roots, Crat has Charm, Root, Snare, Mezz, NT has Calm, Trader with Charm, etc. If anything it might be a bit _too_ spread out.
    Does support people have any real use? I have noticed many players on low levels having an inadequate number of NCUs to really take advantage of the beneficial nano programs ("buffs").
    Comment: Since you made Frequent Customer self-only (good job) you should add a +20 Comp. Lit. buff that is _not_ self-only to the Trader. This should 'stack' with the general +20 buff. This should put things back on balance. There should be more +1 NCU items like the Cyborg Pants (I think) for lowbies to find on rare occasions. You should add more 'support NF's' Such as Aggression Reducers, Init Modifiers, DMS modifiers, etc. that play out better in the 1-100 level range. Post 100 players have probably all the buffs they can ever use to fill their huge belts.
    Do you meet monsters that require skill and tactics to fight other than in the static dungeons?
    Comment: No. This is one area where DAoC has you guys beat. BAF, while a failure, was innovative. The 'Scouts' were absolutely Genius. Roaming monsters that look for groups then go get their buddies (NOT using BAF) are wonderful. Monsters that Flee when obviously overpowered can make the Rooting classes more usefull. Monsters that 'call for help' if they are losing a close battle and they have buddies nearby also add ****e. Your _individual_ mob responsed 'during the fight' are superior (healing, NF-using, etc.). It's the battle-logistics that can use some help.
    Would you like us to add them, or would that seem like we are reducing your capabilities to solo?
    Comment: None of this affects the solo outdoor hunter. It would affect the solo-missions, however. Obviously, you realize the difference between the solo-missions and real hunting as you removed the roaming MOB's in missions, you let a solo-hunter (and consequently teams) to fight a single MOB in a mission room while his buddy stands by stupid 6 feet away in the next room, etc. Solo-missions and hunting will always require different MOB behavior to keep the game playable. You should also consider removing the ability to copy solo-mission keys once you complete Team-missions. Going from room-to-room safely killing one monster after the next while there is another 'victim' standing stupidly by 3 feet away is once again not right in the 'Risk vs. Reward' arena.
    Imagine going to the mines in Mutant Domains or Lush Fields to fight monsters. Suddenly, larger and tougher monsters spawn among its fellow "cannonfodder" friends. It would have more hit-points, higher damage output, and a higher chance of unique item-drops (Loot). Would that be fun, or a pain in the ...?
    Comment: If it were Totally Random, it would not be fun at all. All you would have is p.o.'d players who felt they were ambushed. Bad Idea (TM). If the larger and tougher monsters appeared as a result of the group obviously overmatching and slaughtering the 'spawn' then the beefier MOB's could be expected. Many of your hunting grounds (Avalon, for example) are marred in that a group appropriate for hunting the Orange/Red monsters can be decimated by the Deep, Deep, Red monsters that constantly comingle with them. Your idea of 'random' big guys is an amplification of this hunt-spoiling layout.
    Do you have enough time for socialisation?

    In some other MMORPGs there is a much higher "down-time" factor. (Down-time, the time you wait before you can fight again after last battle.) You can sit for several minutes just gazing at your spellbook or such. The only thing you can do in that period is chat with your team or friends. Do you miss this? Is AO too hectic, too fast-paced? Remember the downtime is very much created for your ability to play solo, so in a team - you are a non-stop-fighting-machine. (Pardon the pun )
    Comment: One of AO's highest selling points is its lack of down time. You best not do ANYTHING to increase it. You have provided a wonderful stage to 'socialize' when not hunting. Those who decide to ride the leveling treadmill don't care much for socializing anyway. What I would suggest instead is to focus on your other social aspects. People want to sit on chairs for example. They want to see vendors in the empty market of Last Ditch. They need all those housed in Last Ditch to be owned by players and guilds. They need the existing social venues fleshed out with more than RP reasons to gather there. Once again, another way to balance your server load by distributing players to less used playfields.
    EDIT: One thing I think you might want to add to ****e things up are 'non-combat' nanos. If the Doc got a NF that could completely heal a team mate but only be used when noone in the team were engaged that would make him more desireable. It's a money-saver compared to med-kits. Things that make life fun like a 'Flare' nano for the Fixer or Engineer or Adventurer that would light the sky to help lost teammates find them would be nice. How about a NF for the NT that would make him 'glow' a bright blue and 'exude' Nano and increase the Nano-regen for all those in vicinity.

    Does the GUI support you in your effort?

    Is the Map GUI with your team members listed, the team GUI with health and nano enough for you to cooperate? Any good suggestions here?
    Comment: It should work in the first place. We need the health/nano bars to actually update. We need a detachable chat pane that includes _only_ group chat that we can float at the top of the play window so we don't have to constantly look at the bottom of the screen for hunt/battle coordination. Other than that it's pretty well thought out.
    I wouldn't dream of changing the rules in such a way that you would be less effective in what you do, or "nerfing" your abilities. What I could consider would be to make life less predictable, and in turn more rewarding. In addition there should be new ways of fighting so that tactical abilities and cooperation are more frequently needed. Examples:

    Give more professions the ability to "crowd control" to some degree. (Adventures getting lower-aggro range nanos i.e.)
    Comment: NO for the most part expect as your example states different 'types' of crowd control.

    Make more interesting monster camps.
    Comment: Big YES

    Check for a quick death-respawn cycle. If so you increase the chance of a "boss monster" to spawn.
    Comment: Big YES

    They will have higher level, more hit-points, and an increased chance of dropping unique loot.

    We could do this from monster level 50 and up i.e.
    Comment: Do it for all levels so that newbies get a feel for this behavior. Don't dump it on them two weeks later.

    Give monsters a more complex AI when you meet them with a team. Let them pick dangerous opponents, basically be "nastier", more challenging... (More fun?)
    Comment: Big YES

    Go through each profession and make sure it has something unique, or at least very good, to contribute to a team in a fight.
    Comment: Big YES.

    If you feel that this is the problem with your team, please supply suggestions of what you would like.

    Include different team-missions. Finally turn on the team-mission booths and give them tougher monsters, more of them, better loot and several levels. Maybe with a boss at the end? + Multiple reward and tokens.
    Comment: For the love of all that's Holy, don't use the same tile and room set as the solo-missions for Team Missions. As previously stated, the Steps of Madness should be used as a template for Team Missions. Larger randomly connected rooms with two or three MOB's in each room would add to the excitement and ensure that ALL character classes are useful. The single-room design means you need a Tank and Healer.

    And please supply any way in which teaming up can be improved in any way! Thanks!
    Last edited by Bionitrous; Jan 22nd, 2002 at 17:58:37.

  17. #37

    Smile Good ideas

    First off I would like to say thanks for asking and keeping the lines of communication going.

    Here is my response:
    -----------------------
    "Do the professions that heal (Doctors, Martial Artists and Adventurers) have any use / purpose in the team? Do you really need a healer when the monsters drop in 5-10 seconds?"
    -----------------------
    Absolutly! Doctors are a must in the high level game, hell they are a must at any part of the game. At lvl95 I hunt Borgs in Mort and without any healing class, Doc, MA, MP or Adv, we are dead. THEY ARE INVALUABLE, do NOT even think they are not useful.

    -----------------------
    "Do the "crowd control" (the ability to temporally suspend monsters from battle by "freezing" them, "slowing" them down, or totally "wiping" their mind) professions have any use? Do you need a Bureaucrat, Agent, Fixer or Trader to keep monsters at bay?"
    -----------------------
    Err...have you played any of these classes to around 100? All roots and calm nano's need to be bumped up in strength. I know I hunt mobs way higher in lvl than me but our roots and calms should be somewhat effective.

    -----------------------
    "Does support people have any real use? I have noticed many players on low levels having an inadequate number of NCUs to really take advantage of the beneficial nano programs ("buffs")."
    -----------------------
    Well, for one you need to fix the NCUs. I am wearing a ql 112 belt and use ql 103 NCU chips. The NCU chips say they give 32-60, NOT. With a 5 slot belt I have a total of 148 NCUs. This averages out to 29 NCUs per chip. See what I mean? Why is this not giving me at least 32? Fix this and you will fix the problem with too little NCUs to hold the buffs.

    -----------------------
    Do you have enough time for socialisation?
    -----------------------
    YES. If you want to socialize, you can. If you want to hunt, HUNT. When I hunt, I chat little with my guild. When I am done hunting then its all ears to the guild channel. I think all you need to do is make the time to socialize. This question really doesn't need to be asked. There will be people that just come online to be social and others come here to hunt and like me, I do both.

    On team missions...this game is geared for teaming and the one main feature is broken. FIX TEAM MISSIONS. Do I need to say more?

    Gaute, thank you for coing out and saying what you are thinking. For the most part they are all VERY good ideas.

    Just DO NOT nerf any class ANYMORE. In fact, all classes need love. Please, thats all I wish.

    Oh and while I'm wishing...FIX TANK ARMOR. Why such a big nerf to it?

    Respectfully,

    General Cyblade7
    Eye of the Nexus
    lvl95 Agent RK-1

  18. #38
    My experience with groups has often been very boring as we take regular missions and just go through them quicker than I would by myself (albeit we up the difficulty of the mission a bit). The change that I would like to see the most is different missions and TEAM missions with a unique or significantly difficult mob boss. I would really like to see a lot more detail and use put into missions. I want to feel like those missions are actually important! Give me a purpose worth missioning for!

    P.S. - I'm an NT if that changes how you read my comment.

    Edit: I wanted to add that you left NT's off the list of professions that can calm mobs.
    Last edited by slimebot; Jan 22nd, 2002 at 17:53:17.

  19. #39

    engis

    great ideas Mr . Godager ..

    But how about makin engis more useful in teams ,
    the symp buffs is somehow use less .. every time i do team missions-hunt the nt-doc-agent screams After me .. SHUT IT DOWN .. It messes up casting-sneakin ..
    when i join a team .. i never get a : could i have a ac buff please.
    and one more thing , pistol sucks , make our shotgun skill . light blue-green plz


    LVL 95 Clan Engi

  20. #40
    A couple of points that I would like to make.

    Lush fields, northwest caves is always packed. There is a reason for this. It has good spawns and lots of mobs, and there can always be a suprise aka Lifebleeder spawns. Pull two mobs and might have a struggle with them, "OOPS a lifebleeder just spawned on us too, we are screwed! Oh wait, we got em all down! way to go team!"

    This gives everyone one on that team a sense of accomplishment. Its all about risk vs. reward. Out in Lush there is a pretty big risk at level 40ish but there is excellent xp out there. The one big problem is EVERYONE goes there at that level. Reason, there aren't very many places like that to hunt.

    My guild has found a few places like that to hunt at at that level but they are hard to get to without a plane. SFH anyone?

    Point being, we need more camps like that. They are pretty well spread out (as in a large area) instead of being a little tiny camp. Also we need these at ALL different levels, say level 50ish, 100ish, etc.. Medusa's were a good idea but they were a bit unbalanced as far as risk versus reward. But the way DAV was set up was in theory a really good idea.

    Please take advantage of all the nice looking zones you all have. It was really worth the 10-15 minute flight out to DAV to hunt. I like the feeling of not only having to worry about monsters but the possibility of being attacked by "the other side". Make some worthwhile hunting in Belial, the Artery Valley's, Perpetual wastlands etc. I have done quite a bit of traveling in search of mobs that would be worthwhile to hunt but there just aren't very many that have a reward that is worth the risk. Just make your zones that you worked so hard on be worthwhile to travel to!


    I would also like to see some really hard mobs for high levels. Or maybe even missions that might possible take two 6 man/woman/atrox teams to finish. The high level game right now is infact just lame. We don't have much to do at all other than what people have mentioned in earlier posts.

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