Point for debate: "Clan" and "OT" Lands?

[AiymaNeut]

((Note: this is an OOC discussion - leave your allegiances at the door, please ))

Now that we have full land control on Rubi-Ka, and every parcel is essentially available to whoever plants their tower in it, do you still think that there are clear, dedicated, "Clan", "Neutral" and "OT" lands?

The old borders of these political boundaries were drawn up as a result of the Tir Accord, but that was quashed.

The only clear divisions I can see is that there are political cities - Tir/Athen/etc. for Clans, Newland/Borrealis for Neuts, Omni-1/Rome for OT. The countryside, however, seems to be open to anyone.

Any thoughts?

[Vixentrox]

I pretty much have to agree. Other than the cities & towns and the area directly surrounding them, the idea of Clan/Neutral/Omni territory is essentially meaningles.

[Fixerben]

agreed

[Jynne]

Well, there are areas where either the Clans or OT have strong outpost presences.

For example, OT has some strong outposts in EFP, SFH, Lush Fields, and Clon****; the Clans have some strong outposts in Mort, Belial Forest, Aegean, Wailing Wastes, and Athen Shire.

There also seem to be some "contestable" areas, on this vein, such as Pleasant Meadows (lots of OT outposts but also a strong Knights-held castle) and Avalon (Camelot, but also the two bubble bases). It's pretty obvious that PM is OT's territory, and that Avalon is Clan, but...

So... the question I'd like to know is, are these outposts - essentially military camps - meaningful as regardes the "ownership" of various areas?

[______________Nelida]

Well I obviously agree...since this is pretty much what I've been saying all along.

This world is NO longer about Clan vs. Omni vs. Neutral.

Why this simple principle is not more easily grasped is beyond my understanding.

[AiymaNeut]

Damn, you're sharp as a tack, Jynne. I hadn't even thought about that.

I guess it would depend on what approach we take. If we take an approach similar to an "embassy" principle, then ownership would be restricted to the outpost and the land it sits on, but not of the surrounding area. This would support that there are indeed no dedicated political lands, only political bases or structures.

If we take a functional perspective, then it's easy to say that Clon****, Galway, Lush, etc., are OT lands, and that Mort, Athen Shire, Belial, etc., are Clan lands. The problem with this latter approach is this: could it not be argued that Andromeda are ICC lands?

Also (and someone please clarify), do any of the land control areas overlap any of the outposts/faction structures? I would tend to think not, but you never know...

[AiymaNeut]

...take a look here

[Fixerben]

No Alamexis there is no overlapping of Mine Bases, and politically affiliated cities.

And a big fat "WOoo000000ttTTTTTTT!!!!!!!~" on the publicity there Alamexis

[Jynne]

Well, the obvious purpose of an outpost isn't to have an embassy, it's to project military power into the surrounding area. The bases are just that, bases. Troops are stationed there, but they monitor and patrol the surrounding territory, or so I would presume.

So I would think that these outposts have "zones of control" around them. Legally these zones of control might have no basis, but in a de facto sense, I think it's safe to say that these outposts exert "political" control - through military presence - in the surrounding countryside.

[Fixerben]

That also depends on the guild Jynne. Some guilds arent political at all. And they are not simply bases. They are mining towers, surrounded by small defense towers. It is a mining base, not a military base.

[Jynne]

Originally posted by Benjacrat
That also depends on the guild Jynne. Some guilds arent political at all. And they are not simply bases. They are mining towers, surrounded by small defense towers. It is a mining base, not a military base.

I'm not talking about player bases.

I'm talking about Story-org outposts, like the bubble bases in avalon or the knights castle in pleasant meadows or the Sentinels base in Mort. Or the War Academy in Athen Shire. Or that long acronym omni-med base in EFP.

[Arila]

Personally, then no one got a claim to any land at all. As long as u do not have an indestructable house or building there, then you cant claim anything

As for the notum mining, well, i cant care, im not into that (guildless hehe)

[Fixerben]

oh, hehe, sorry

In that case, I would only assume that their influence politically differs by base. Where as the bubble base has a clearly defined border, set by the huge bubble. There are no guards patrolling the area there, they stay inside and at the entrance. And obviously the North has always been Clan territory. But since the Tir Accord is invalid their presence there is totally legal. I could argue personally, but not legally. We have no outposts in Southern Omni Territory so I dont see why they should be allowed in ours. Its just plain unfair. Plus that would be a great advantage is the case they should want to launch an attack on Clan territory, as I know that base is full of weapons of Mass Destruction. But I wouldnt go as far as to say that the presence of such an outpost gives any set of people claim to a certain area. It was clear that when ICC deregulated the Notum mining it was a frontier law "Whoever gets there first, it is theirs legally." So I would think that those outposts have no bearing.

[_____PrimeTechnocrat]

I am not suprised at all by the way that the land control is turning out. The Tir Accord borders have essentially stayed the same as far as land control goes. Omni-Tek controls the south while the clans control the north and broken shores(with a few notable exceptions, mostly omni bases in the north) with the Stret area a well balanced border zone and a few neutrals scattered across the world. As for various clan and omni-tek npc outposts in opposing territories, although the omni-tek bases in Avalon are far stronger, and there are also other ones such as the foreman's office, the Knights outpost in PM is the only one of these(i'm pretty sure, correct me if I'm wrong) where guards actually patrol outside of the main base. I know that I've been chased by knights on my way back from missions in PM before but I can fly right over the Avalon bases with my clan alt and have no trouble at all. So, I think it works out to be pretty fair in the end.

[Dabblez]

There are also smaller towns and settlements scattered about. not just military outposts. For instance Treepine Hut in Pleaseant Meadows is an Omni village, Bliss and Raising Sun are clan towns in their own right. Some are so small I am not sure they even have names.