Something for clanners to read ( who care about peace )

[_____________Rolller]

For any peace process to take root and grow clanners need to understand a couple of things.

1. You need to decide who will represent you.

2. Thoose who don't go along need to no longer be deemed "clanners"


Even if CEO Ross where to strike up a lasting peace with Radiman and the CoT it really wouldn't amount to a hill of beans. Who exactly dose Radiman represent? Clanner after clanner has come out publicly and stated that they do not follow the CoT's policies. Yet theese same clanners are welcomed into your "clanner" fold.

Unless the clans unite under one leadership peace negotiations are futile. Omni-Tek cannot waist time negotiating with ever other clanner faction. There are some clan factions that are frankly not interested in peace at all.

This leaves many Omni-Tek employee's with the impression that Radiman is just a puppet head. That we are really negotiating with a false leader. For a lasting peace Omni-Tek needs to be negotiating with leadership that is strong. One that can punish thoose who go outside of it's policies.

This however I fear is useless. Clansmen are known to love anarchy and violence. So unless there is a radical shift in the mindset of the typical clanner I fear the peace process is doomed.

[UwensBack]

You have no idea what you're talking about. This is not two nations fighting each other. This is a fascist company fighting rebels. And not all the rebels fight for the same cause.
Those of RubiKa that have become clansmen have done so because they strive of individual freedom and choice. No one ever said you have to follow the CoT if you are clan. Plenty of us support the CoT but that does not mean we will follow it in whatever decision it makes. Because it s inconvienent for you to negotiate with all the seperate clans shows you are not trying your hardest for peace. We are not one nation. We are not always united in any way other than that we fight against the oppression of OT. When we seperate and form our own clans we make our own choices of what we want to do and what our attitude and policy is towards OT. The CoT does not. They are not dictators like Boss Ross. Their word is not final. The individual clansmen's word is what you need to listen to. You can negotiate all you want with the CoT but the clans who do not follow the CoT are not exactly going to listen if you negotiate peace with the CoT now are they? And those who do not support the CoT are not traitors because we never pledged support to anyone.
Now about your ideas-
" 1. You need to decide who will represent you. "
No we don't. If you need someone that represents us, talk to our clan leaders. Or those who do not have a clan.

"2. Thoose who don't go along need to no longer be deemed "clanners" "
Why? Anyone who rebels is a clanner. You can't very well tell them to stop rebelling now can you? They have a right to their own opinions and ideals. We do not have to organise and become one if we choose not to, because, as I have previously stated, this is not one organised nation against another. Its a oppressive regime against assorted rebels.

"Even if CEO Ross where to strike up a lasting peace with Radiman and the CoT it really wouldn't amount to a hill of beans. Who exactly dose Radiman represent? Clanner after clanner has come out publicly and stated that they do not follow the CoT's policies. Yet theese same clanners are welcomed into your "clanner" fold. "
Yes because they are fighting for their freedom. If they don't want peace, they don't have to accept it.

"Unless the clans unite under one leadership peace negotiations are futile. Omni-Tek cannot waist time negotiating with ever other clanner faction. There are some clan factions that are frankly not interested in peace at all. "
If OmniTek does not have time for peace, then they are forcing us to make them have time for steel. I wish for peace, but I will not be let myself be oppressed and walked over. If OmniTek does truly want peace, then they will spend their time negotiating with every clanner. And yes there are factions who are uninterested in peace. They have the right to be. They are rebelling for their own ideal then. They are not forced to rebel for someone elses.

"This leaves many Omni-Tek employee's with the impression that Radiman is just a puppet head. That we are really negotiating with a false leader. For a lasting peace Omni-Tek needs to be negotiating with leadership that is strong. One that can punish thoose who go outside of it's policies. "
While Radiman may not be a puppet head, for that would require someone working the strings, he certainly does not represent all clanners. For lasting peace OT needs to be negotiating with the individual clans because thats how we run things. We don't have a leadership that punishes those who go outside the policies because if those who go outside the policy don't agree to the policy in the first place, how can you punish them? They are, once again, rebelling for a different cause or choose to go about rebelling in a different way. Just because it is inconvienent for OT does not mean we have to change.

"This however I fear is useless. Clansmen are known to love anarchy and violence. So unless there is a radical shift in the mindset of the typical clanner I fear the peace process is doomed."
Of course, you probably heard this from OmniTek propaganda, but while it is true that some clans are warlike and anarchist, A) anarchy can work if you have intelligent people wiht it (but thats not the subject), B) clans have the right to do whatever they feel is right to fight OmniTek, and C) The majority of clansmen do not "love" anarchy and violence and we do not need a new mindset because our mindsets are, at least, our own thoughts and not some corporations propaganda that is spewed into your heads 25 hours a day 8 days a week and you are brain washed into conforming to. We have each our own thoughts and ideas, not communal ones. And finally, the peace process will be doomed by, if anything, OmniTek for not taking the time to negotiate with each clan. And, next time you get done listening to the omnipresent OT propaganda, wait at least an hour in the forest far away from a city to come and write about how the clans need to change to fit OmniTek's needs. *Sigh* A typical mindless slave...

[UwensBack]

And BTW, there is no such thing as the CoT in game, and there is no way the ever could represent the clans. Maybe if we could put together our own CoT of leaders from the clans maybe that would work, however I think this has already been tried and failed.

[_____________Rederon]

Now bear with me, I am going to be very very broad here.

There are three basic types of clanners.

Those fighting for domination
Those fighting just to fight
Those who fight for freedom.


How are they going to unite?

[_____________Breogan]

... I dont know how you manage to be in clan territory, cause the diversity of causes, methods, ideals, goals and motivations is what made us clanner.

In fact, in our particular case, our clan not follows the CoT BLINDLY, and in fact, we may even do exactly the opposite if the CoT STARTS asking us for war against Omni without a good reason. We would be happy to negotiate a peace with Omni even if every single other clan doesnt, as long as Omni accepts our demands (democracy, freedom and independence for Rubi-Ka).

What Omni-Tek keeps doing is ignore this fundamental difference and treat us clanners as a whole. I dont know if its deliberate or just the fact that they are so used to top down leadership they cant understand anything different, but if they want peace, they have to think that is the "enemy" is the CLANS, a plural noun, and that means they can work for peace with a significant number of them even if they will never achieve it with others. They should become aware that a peace with 50% of your current enemies is a better deal that no peace at all.

Steward of the Ranger Prime Breogan
Clan Eye of the Nexus

[_____________Rolller]

All the replies have pretty much proved my point.

That is that the clans are so divided there is really no point in negotiating with one person. That one preson dose nothing to riegn in the more radical factions and dose nothing to differinate himself from them.

All in all you cannot have your cake and eat it too. Radiman and the CoT need to publicly come out against all thoose who ignore the CoT's policies. Until then there can be no peace process.

That pretty much leaves the conclusion that I think the majority of clansmen want. I'm sure most of you know what that is. War.

OT in good faith has tried to work out thier differences with the CoT. In return a knife has been placed in our backs by what even clanners call a radical "clanner" faction. The CoT will do nothing to bring theese terrorists to justice because after all they are "clanners".

Soon the ICC will untie OT's hands. Then this little rebelion will be put down. Notum is far too important to allow a little rebelion to interupt it's timely delivery.

[UwensBack]

As Rederon and Breogan said, we are very diverse.
Even as I tell you this, you don't seem to understand- The CoT is NOT the sole power governing the clans! MANY clans do not follow them. If OmniTek does not have time to "waste" for peace negotiating with EACH clan, then THEY are the ones who do not care for peace. Perhaps you cannot get it through your brainwashed mind, but we are NOT like OT. We are NOT governed by any one particular government unless we agree to it, which many clanners have not done to the CoT and is their right to not have to pledge alliegiance to someone whom they do not think will represent them in the way they would like. As I have said before, the clans are NOT a nation. We are, some of us, only binded together by the fact that we fight against a common enemy. We can have our cake and eat it too because who is there to tell us we can't? You? Ross? Radiman? No! None of you! Because we didn't choose you!
OT can work all they want with the CoT but if the individual clans do not agree, then no one can force them to! Personally, I believe the CoT is weak and is not doing the best for the clans.
And, please, do not tell me the majority of clanners are for war.
More clanners attended the peace walks than OT for sure! Now, yes, there are alot who desire war, with good reason though. Even if the majority is for war, you cannot tell me that OT got "stabbed in the back" or are all for peace. Just because you offer "amnesty" does not mean you want peace. Besides, an amnesty is for criminals to return without punishment. I am no criminal. No clansmen is a criminal for being a clanner. They have made their free willed choice and will live by it. Who brought a Gunship to the CoT building? Who planted bombs and threatened an innocent city's residents? Who demanded that the CoT use powers it did not have? OmniTek did. You cannot say OT gave their all for peace and that we are warmongers. We will go to war now for you have pushed us far enough!
Now as an aside, while some people believe that we cannot have peace until OT is eliminated from the free world of RubiKa, I disagree. If OmniTek wants notum, they can have it. However, they cannot own people. They are not a government. They are a company. They should not own cities. They should not have a personal, nation sized, army. They should mine their notum and let those who understand how to run a country do so. They should let all people decide on who makes the laws that the people must abide by. The people must decide the government, or it can never work. OT is NOT a country, they are a company.
Even though all of our posts completely discredit your points, your simple OmniReformed mind still thinks you are right. Please, get some fresh, un gassed air and think about it. Perhaps you shall see the light and join us in fighting the good fight. Victory for freedom!

[___________Mr. Bogus]

Originally posted by Smashabasha
As Rederon and Breogan said, we are very diverse.
Even as I tell you this, you don't seem to understand- The CoT is NOT the sole power governing the clans! MANY clans do not follow them. If OmniTek does not have time to "waste" for peace negotiating with EACH clan, then THEY are the ones who do not care for peace. Perhaps you cannot get it through your brainwashed mind, but we are NOT like OT. We are NOT governed by any one particular government unless we agree to it, which many clanners have not done to the CoT and is their right to not have to pledge alliegiance to someone whom they do not think will represent them in the way they would like. As I have said before, the clans are NOT a nation.

Hmmm, not a nation? but here you say

Originally posted by Smashabasha
They should mine their notum and let those who understand how to run a country do so. They should let all people decide on who makes the laws that the people must abide by. The people must decide the government, or it can never work. OT is NOT a country, they are a company.

Now you say the clans know how to run a nation yet admit none of you can agree on anything. You're a nation but then again, not a nation. And you want us to push Omni-Tek aside and let the clans run this planet?

You got to be kidding. We would never get anything done. There would be no law because 51% of you would never be able to agree on it.

Obviously, you have no idea how to run a country. Leaders are needed because no country can get 51% of its population to agree on anything. Leaders are the ones that get stuck with making the harder choices. The ones that are going to piss off a lot of people.

Omni-Tek and Ross are doing as good a job as can be expected. True Ross and made some very unpopular choices. However, all leaders have to at one time or another.

Even a clan leader does. The only difference is, if a clanner doesn't like the law, he just won't follow it. This is not someone I want leading me. Show us some responsibility. Show us you practice what you preach. Follow the law as written NOW. Before we allow you write law.

Later,

[UwensBack]

I follow the law. The law of my clan. If it is forbidden by the clan, I won't do it. If I elect someone to govern me, I will do what they say. I will not listen to a leader I have not chosen. I don't mean that if the leader I voted for doesn't win, that I will not listen, but if there is free election, if I was able to have some say in the government, then I will do as they say. I have not chosen Radiman to be my leader. And I did not choose Ross as my leader. If Ross wants to run for election, and he gets voted in, then I will comply. However, he must have a set term. If not, he will just be a dictator again. If there is no one to counter him, he will be a dictator. If we have a say in the people who will be there to counter him, and if we have a say in who leads us, then I will follow whatever law they propose. As long as it doesn't infringe on individual rights. OT does not know how to run a country, much less a planet. So I reiterate, a company should NOT have an Armed Forces, a company should NOT be a government, and company should be ..... a company. Regulated and policed by a government and the people. NOT the other wy around.
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Hmmm, not a nation? but here you say


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Originally posted by Smashabasha
They should mine their notum and let those who understand how to run a country do so. They should let all people decide on who makes the laws that the people must abide by. The people must decide the government, or it can never work. OT is NOT a country, they are a company.
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Now you say the clans know how to run a nation yet admit none of you can agree on anything. You're a nation but then again, not a nation. And you want us to push Omni-Tek aside and let the clans run this planet?
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Where in that excerpt did I say the clans know how to run a nation? Where did I say we are a nation? I said they should let those who know how to run a country run it, not necessarily clansmen, but elected people. And I still never said we were a nation there.

[_____________Rolller]

I am a simple atrox ... I don't go in for flowery speaches and such. I am some times too blunt and often my point is overlooked.


Smashabasha....

The whole point of my original post is that it would be impossible to negotiate with every clan. Some clans aren't even interested in peace. Thoose clans however who are interested in peace need to realize that the clans that are declairing war on all OT interestes and preforming terrorist actions against OT are ruining the chances for peace. As long as the pro-peace clans walk arm in arm with thier fellow clansmen who seem all too intent to prevent any peace settelment from happining, it will do just that. Wont happen.

Many of the OT factions had a hard time swollowing the amnesty when it was first introduced. Some went outside of the OT policy. Thoose parties where brought to trial and punished. I think I can safely say a majority of thoose factions are now fully behind Ross. The point is we as a group let thoose how were acting outside of the majorities interests know that what they where doing was looked down apon.

Now I don't expect the clansmen to all of a sudden start acting like an organized and efficient group. That is very much against your nature .. I understand that. What most Omni's do expect though is for the clansmen to realize is that as long as you openly keep company with thoose who's sole intrest is the destruction of OT on Rubi-Ka OT cannot in good faith negotiate with any of you.

Wake up and realize your "brother clansmen" are dragging you into war. They are decideing for you that there will be war on this planet. They are taking away your so called freedom.

That is what I want clansmen to know. Sadly most of you just ignore anything said by an Omni. Even from a simple atrox like me.

[UwensBack]

Ok. I can see your point. However, we cannot police warmongering clans as we have no right to police them. We can cease to help them. We can stop supporting them. However, we cannot attack them or try to tell them that they are breaking some kind of law. If they enter into a pact and elect a leader to make laws and such, then we can police them if they break the laws, but as it is, we have no authority to police them. They have not joined any government as the clans have yet to have one government that rules us all. We are trying to bring as many clans as possible under one pact/council. Once we do, you may stop your negotiations with a council that has no power and start them with one that does. Then maybe your precious time may be saved. And by the way, for a simple atrox, I liked your second post, even if you are an Omni.

[____________Sllaagor]

Roller, fellow Atrox, join us! How can you not see that you are a tool created by Omni-Tek, a slave? We Atrox have no humanity, OT did not feel it necessary to give us our birthright, sex organs!

We are not a true breed ... we were bred for slavery, notum mining. I saw many of my friends, Atrox and Solitus, die in the mines only to enrich a corporation who does not care about us!
We are tools, we are not human! Humanity is defined in great part by our sex drive, and we have none!

I send a call to all Atrox, OT, Neutral, Clan ... band together! We must be a true breed! Only Omni-Med has the knowledge required to make this happen ... they must use it, or give it to those who would use it. If this can be done peacefully, so much the better. But I fear that war is the only answer. Those in power do not give up information easily.

Dig deeper and find out what OT really feels about the Atrox. At least here with the Clans I can find respect, make my own choices, live and learn on my own terms.

I respect you, Roller, and what you have said. However, in my quest for justice I will do whatever I have to do. I pity any, OT, Neutral, or Clan, who stand in my way.

- Sllaagor
Clan Atrox Enforcer

[_____________Rolller]

Me joining the clans is about as likely as clan unity. While only possesing the simple mental capabilites of an Atrox even I can see I am on the side of the right.

You as an atrox owe your very existance to Omni-Med. If it wasn't for thier research the superior breed of the atrox wouldn't exist.

[UwensBack]

Maybe it would have been better if OT hadn't played God and created a race to serve them as labourers. Of course they made you simple minded so you wouldn't know the bum deal they gave you! And if you think that you joining OT is about as likely as clan unity, I'm wondering why you haven't come to Tir yet and joined us. The clans will unite. And we will remove OT from power. The atrox will become a true breed and we shall have individual rights from a government who cares more about the people than profits.

[_____________Kirrana]

I am very interested in what you post about the guilds, I do wonder if I should take any notice of you as you said yourselves the clans do not have common goals. Unless that is you count freedom, but if that is true what is the problem. You have our own lands and are free to do what you want. All Omni-Tek asks is that we are allow are own free to do as we wish with our own land.

I think it may help you to see Omni-Tek as a very big clan guild if you like. So you said you follow the law of your guild and you will not break them. So this is true of Omni-Tek we are a part of the guild of Omni-Tek and we follow and obey them. Sure we did not elect Ross but we are own guild it is our freedom to not have to elect a leader. This is of course all down to our guilds laws.

So given you have freedom what else is it you expect ? Surely you are not trying to restrict Omni-Teks freedom are you. After all we did pay the money to lease the planet. This was an open offer but I did not see anyone else trying to by it.

If you claim Omni-Tek was or is somehow wrong in this then your problem lies with ICC in leasing the planet in the first place. Omni-Tek is simply a company and Rubi_ki just an asset.

[____________Sllaagor]

I have forgiven the others, the virtual slavery, the short-sightedness.

Omni-Tek needs to make the Atrox a true breed. We are hampered, cheated. This is my only problem ... if the Clans can unite (a possibility, however unlikely) and if OT can negotiate, someday perhaps Rubi-Ka become better, more than it is now. Cooperation. Tolerance.

In human history as Sllaagor has read it, that type of situation comes along rarely, and not for long. We are tribal! Divided by social lines if not genetic ones! We do it to ourselves! OT has only propagated this problem (by creating Opifex, Nano, Atrox!) ... almost better if this had not occured, though Solitus would splinter into factions just as surely. There is no easy answer.
And all hard answers are so hard as to be intolerable.

Sllaagor's head hurt. Go to sleep now.

- Sllaagor
Clan Atrox Enforcer

[____________Sllaagor]

Originally posted by Rolller
Me joining the clans is about as likely as clan unity. While only possesing the simple mental capabilites of an Atrox even I can see I am on the side of the right.

You as an atrox owe your very existance to Omni-Med. If it wasn't for thier research the superior breed of the atrox wouldn't exist.

Superior? In some ways. All breeds have their advantages, and disadvantages. Sterility too high of price to pay for Atrox gains.

To each his own, Roller. I hope I never have to do violence to you. My offer stands open.

What could OT hope to give me? A surprise killing because I am "too smart for an Atrox?" Too ... political? Would they buy me off, honorable Roller? Make me a full male, and give me a female companion if I only shut my mouth and come into the fold?

Doubtful.

- Sllaagor
Clan Atrox Enforcer

[UwensBack]

So RubiKa is an asset to OT? So then the employees of OmniTek are just assets. We are all intended to be just assets. How can you people live like that?
So OmniTek is one big clan guild? I don't think so. In many clans so far I have seen/heard of (incl. my own) such things as a guild bank and a guild treasury. Now maybe OT has a bank and a treasury, but, they do not give to the people. Whenever the High Council can afford it, we donate to the Treasury. Whenever we can afford it, we buy armour and kit for the bank. Whenever we find something that might be useful, we put it in our bank, at a detriment to our own monetary supply and personal armour. This will go to the needy people in our clan. Say, someone cannot afford that next nano. We give them the cash. Say, someone cannot afford armour/kit, we give the items. When they can afford it or they get better armour, the armour/kit comes back to the treasury. When they become rich, the donate money of their own. This has happened many times in our guild alone. I don't see OmniTek giving out freebies to help their citizens. Then there is the fact that we vote on issues. When the time comes, will we want to go to war? Thats up to the people. Who should our next addition to the High Council be? Thats up to the people. I have never seen or heard of a single vote in OmniTek history, by the masses, that had any affect on there lives, other than that they voted. So, please, don't tellme OmniTek is a large clan guild. It is an insult to the large clan guilds out there, as well as to all clanners.

Uwen

[_____________Kirrana]

Oh the true voice of the clans, freedom bah what you mean is do things the way you do more like. You claim Omni-Tek cant be a guild because we dont follow the clan way of doing things. Should we not have the right to run a guild the way we want to ? Should Omni-Tek not be free to choose its own path we have broken no laws and by clan standards it appears with freedom you dont have to obey those laws if you dont agree to them.

Omni-Tek does nothing for its guild members ? Oh i am sorry where did my nice appartment come from then ?. Who spent 12 years training me as a medic. Who gives me jobs to do each day that put money on the table. Who built the clubs, womphas, grid sites, parks, trees, shops etc

You talk of your guild giving you a bit of cash and handed down weapons and armour this is nothing to what Omni-Tek have done. This guild of mine Omni-Tek created Rubi-Ki from nothing and what have all the clan guilds done ?

[___________Mr. Bogus]

Originally posted by Smashabasha
I follow the law. The law of my clan. If it is forbidden by the clan, I won't do it. If I elect someone to govern me, I will do what they say. I will not listen to a leader I have not chosen.

So if you were born into a kingdom, you would not follow the law of the king? By your own words, you will not listen a leader that is not "chosen by the people".

In many governments, the leader is not "chosen". Sometimes the leader inherits the job. Sometimes, the leader is picked by the powers that be, such as socialist or communist governments. Going back further in time, tribal leaders were the norm and were not elected to the post.

In any case, you don’t just waltz in and demand changes. Omni-Tek is the established leader on Rubi-Ka. They paid for ownership with blood, sweat and cold hard cash. They have install Ross to run the show here. He will allow you to voice your opinion but only if you stay within the law. Just like any tribal leader would expect of you.

Originally posted by Smashabasha
I don't mean that if the leader I voted for doesn't win, that I will not listen, but if there is free election, if I was able to have some say in the government, then I will do as they say. I have not chosen Radiman to be my leader. And I did not choose Ross as my leader. If Ross wants to run for election, and he gets voted in, then I will comply.

But Omni-Tek owns the lease. How would you compensate them for the loss? What taxes would you impose to cover needed services Omni-Tek would no longer provide? With the "freedom" your "elected" leader would give us, who would provide protection from invaders ? Without Omni-Tek, who would keep the trade routes open?

Originally posted by Smashabasha
Where in that excerpt did I say the clans know how to run a nation? Where did I say we are a nation? I said they should let those who know how to run a country run it, not necessarily clansmen, but elected people. And I still never said we were a nation there.

You (a clansman) are the one asking for a change in government. Are you telling me you would vote for an Omni-Tek person in a free election? You and I both know the answer to that.

And as far as the word "Nation" goes, insert any of the following. Tribe, Organization, Group, Guild or Clan. They are all one form of government.