Why is the 1k Clan Board better then the 1k Omni Board?

[Centurion3]

Originally posted by Animosity
Or to quote a leet "STFU MOFO"

whine whine whine... we got armour but they get a nicer badge ... wa wa wa... my conscious hurts (then you should have been a clanner) ... boo hoo ... someone else has nice stuff too... no i'm not spoilt, I'm omni!


RU N00B?

I'd rate this flame with an 1. Its not very constructive, ive seen better insults of the oponent and more creative insults. True that the hip new slang some people use works from time to time, but not in this case...

Not very aggressive either, at least not an very clear way of showing it... If I where you I'd stick to being an regular poster instead of flamer.

[_____________Eidolus]

Off topic, but why not either change the neutral affiliation to ICC, or create a new ICC affiliation?

I may be the only one, but I think that would be a good thing.

[Bitterness]

Originally posted by Centurion3


I'd rate this flame with an 1. Its not very constructive, ive seen better insults of the oponent and more creative insults. True that the hip new slang some people use works from time to time, but not in this case...

Not very aggressive either, at least not an very clear way of showing it... If I where you I'd stick to being an regular poster instead of flamer.

I've got to agree with Senor Poopypants on this one.

[Jayde]

Originally posted by Cemetarygate
The token board was not 'upgraded' over time. Many of the changes to the board throughout the span of game time have been fixes.

The change in 14.7.5 was not an upgrade, but a compensation to a receint nerf to the board. Which is in typical Funcom fashion. Usually when they degrade something they try and offer something in return to make up for said degrade.

In this case, Funcom made the Nano Damage buff useless, thus nerfing that part of the board. So, they removed the Nano Damage buff and compensated with the additional health and nano pool.

As far as Galahad and Montezuma, they are only but a small portion of who is backing the clans. There are more backing the clans, of which I neglected to name, over who could be backing the neutrals. So, the neutrals do not have as much backing them as clans have backing them.

Plus, those two names, among the others I neglected to mention are who make up the CoT. Maybe an oversight on Funcoms part, but the neglected to mention those persons fleeing along with Radiman.

As far as neutrals getting something similar. Persons became clan, Omni or neutral not knowing the exact advantages and disvantages, but everyone was told there are advantages and disvantages to each side of the conflict.

Upon entering the training grounds every neutral person has an empty clan and Omni-Tek merit board in their inventory, and/or could find empty merit boards in the startup shop terminals. Therefore, neutral persons knew since level 1 that one of the disadvantages to being netural was lack of token board.

The neutrals made the choice to continue onward without the board, which is why you shouldn't get one now. Again, was your choice to go without. Plus, as I've shown, the board has not been upgraded, but fixed. So that's not a concern.

Umm... It was not "fixed" The nano damage buff NEVER did ANYTHING. Also, you figure that en extra couple hundred HP/NP to EVERYONE is tradeoff for a nano damage buff? lol

Let's compare here:

Modify Life OnWearer 700
Modify MaxNanoEnergy OnWearer 700
Modify RunSpeed OnWearer 210
Modify NanoProgramming OnWearer 210
Modify ComputerLiteracy OnWearer 210
Modify Concealment OnWearer 140
Modify AMSModifier OnWearer 7
Modify DMSModifier OnWearer 7
Modify ProjectileDamageModifier OnWearer 4
Modify MeleeDamageModifier OnWearer 4
Modify EnergyDamageModifier OnWearer 4
Modify ChemicalDamageModifier OnWearer 4
Modify RadiationDamageModifier OnWearer 4
Modify ColdDamageModifier OnWearer 4
Modify NanoDamageModifier OnWearer 4
Modify FireDamageModifier OnWearer 4
Modify PoisonDamageModifier OnWearer 4
Modify XPModifier OnWearer 7

Modify Wearer MaxHealth 950
Modify Wearer MaxNanoEnergy 950
Modify Wearer RunSpeed 210
Modify Wearer NanoProgramming 210
Modify Wearer ComputerLiteracy 210
Modify Wearer Concealment 140
Modify Wearer AddAllOff 45
Modify Wearer AddAllDef 60
Modify Wearer ProjectileDamageModifier 20
Modify Wearer MeleeDamageModifier 20
Modify Wearer EnergyDamageModifier 20
Modify Wearer ChemicalDamageModifier 20
Modify Wearer RadiationDamageModifier 20
Modify Wearer ColdDamageModifier 20
Modify Wearer FireDamageModifier 20
Modify Wearer PoisonDamageModifier 20
Modify Wearer XPModifier 7

lol!!!

You're telling me...that because they removed a +4 nano buff that NEVER WORKED... That you should get:

+16 damage to all attacks
+38 Add All Off
+53 Add All Def
+250 Health
+250 Nano

Uuuh huh... You just keep telling yourself that.

This was an UPGRADE, plain and simple. A big upgrade, for the most overpowered item in the game already. (Also didn't address the rolling-out of Sentinals and Omni-AF armor, which easily blows every other piece of armor in the game out the window.)

Also, what have Neutrals gotten for their "advantages" lately? Nerfs. Sided mobs in almost every city, broken PvP rules, broken teaming for almost 2 weeks.

ICC is Neutral...that's a pretty big backing, don'tcha think? They guard our cities, you'd think they would offer other means of support as well.

Trying to rationalize this change is silly. It's unfair and overpowered, and everyone knows it.

-Jayde

[Centurion3]

Originally posted by Bitterness
I've got to agree with Senor Poopypants on this one.

uh? him or me?

[Bitterness]

Originally posted by Centurion3
uh? him or me?

Check your underpants and figure it out.

[Cemetarygate]

Originally posted by Jayde
Umm... It was not "fixed" The nano damage buff NEVER did ANYTHING. Also, you figure that en extra couple hundred HP/NP to EVERYONE is tradeoff for a nano damage buff? lol

Let's compare here:

lol!!!

You're telling me...that because they removed a +4 nano buff that NEVER WORKED... That you should get:

+16 damage to all attacks
+38 Add All Off
+53 Add All Def
+250 Health
+250 Nano

Uuuh huh... You just keep telling yourself that.

This was an UPGRADE, plain and simple. A big upgrade, for the most overpowered item in the game already. (Also didn't address the rolling-out of Sentinals and Omni-AF armor, which easily blows every other piece of armor in the game out the window.)

Also, what have Neutrals gotten for their "advantages" lately? Nerfs. Sided mobs in almost every city, broken PvP rules, broken teaming for almost 2 weeks.

ICC is Neutral...that's a pretty big backing, don'tcha think? They guard our cities, you'd think they would offer other means of support as well.

Trying to rationalize this change is silly. It's unfair and overpowered, and everyone knows it.

Very poorly worded on my part, your absolutly correct.

What I should have said was that the mob upgrades in 12.6 (such as, beefing up all the mobs abilities) is what nerfed alot of the boards attributes (such as, making +7 off/def useless), and these were the necessary fixes which, do seem like upgrades, that put the board back into perspective in PvM.

PvP on the other hand. I agree that these fixes are not so fair. These fixes properly balance PvM more so than PvP.

Single most overpowering item in the game? It's not considering every single player in the game has the tools to get the board. If every player has the board, that makes every player equal, and that makes the board equal to everyone.

The problem, again, is that persons like yourself refuse to take the necessary steps to get the board, but instead whine about your position; that you'd rater not get up to get the board, that you'd rather have the board given to you. Again, that's your disadvantage. That's your choice. Stop whinning about your choice and live with it.

[Cemetarygate]

To comment on a couple of the other items within your post, Jayde.

Why are you even arguing about Sentinals and Omni-AF armor when such pieces as Breastplate of Azure Reveries and Living Dragonflesh Body Armor, which are available to all factions, that are just as, if not more, powerful than Sentinals and Omni-AF armor, exist in game?

ICC could very well back the neutrals, but why would neutrals need more advantages to a conflict they are neutral to?

Agreed, as far as mission fixes. Those are game play bugs which should have been fixed along with the other fixes, in the fix patch.

[Jayde]

Originally posted by Cemetarygate


Very poorly worded on my part, your absolutly correct.

What I should have said was that the mob upgrades in 12.6 (such as, beefing up all the mobs abilities) is what nerfed alot of the boards attributes (such as, making +7 off/def useless), and these were the necessary fixes which, do seem like upgrades, that put the board back into perspective in PvM.

PvP on the other hand. I agree that these fixes are not so fair. These fixes properly balance PvM more so than PvP.

Single most overpowering item in the game? It's not considering every single player in the game has the tools to get the board. If every player has the board, that makes every player equal, and that makes the board equal to everyone.

The problem, again, is that persons like yourself refuse to take the necessary steps to get the board, but instead whine about your position; that you'd rater not get up to get the board, that you'd rather have the board given to you. Again, that's your disadvantage. That's your choice. Stop whinning about your choice and live with it.

I'm not whining about anything. Get over it. I can't stand it when people "whine about whiners." This is a play mechanics issue and it is a balance issue and I will complain about it until it is resolved.

You're telling me that these large upgrade were due to the game being made harder? How does that affect the ones without token boards, pray tell?

No, the token board was fine as it was. It was still the single more powerful single item in the entire game. Now, it is by far the single more powerful item in the game.

The fact that you can get it does not make it less overpowering, sorry. Find me another single item that does nearly as much as a token board. Also, consider that it has its very own slot that it can go into without conflicting with anything notable.

The board did not need "perspective." The board was fine and dandy as it was.

I do not have the tools to get a Token Board. Get over yourself. Neutral advantages are ceasing to exist as we speak. There are none. However, I have played 156 levels with my Neutral character, and there's no way in hell I'm using an application form.

While sided bigots seem to be unable to accept this simple fact, there is a VERY distinct line between "natural disadvantages" of Neutrals, and simple play-mechanics inbalance. Yes, certain choices can be penalized, but when it comes to simple affiliation, you can only go so far. Also, disadvantages need to be countered with other advantages. (Our so-called "free travel", etc..) However, those advantages are being stripped, while our disadvantages (or, should I say, the advantages of the other options) are being enhanced.

As it is right now, Neutrals are inbalanced. You may not like it, but it's true.

Let's pose a question... What if they gave Token Boards (exactly how they are) only to 1 class...say Martial Artists. Do you think that would be fair? Heck no! Token Boards are simply far to powerful as-is without having some kind of resonable balancing force on the side of those without one.

To reply to your second post, of the Breastplate of Azure Reveries has never appeared in game. The Living Dragonflesh Body Armor is arguably not as good. Aside from the chest, which has nice damage mods, the Sentinals/AF armor has the same AC, buffs more useful attributes, buffs NCU, and does not rely on MA skill. (Using Living Dragon armor as a non-MA is just asking to be OEed in PvP.)

Sentinals/AF armor is also the only uber armor that isn't impossible to get.

This statement shows your lack of understanding:
"ICC could very well back the neutrals, but why would neutrals need more advantages to a conflict they are neutral to? "

1) PvM is not part of the conflict
2) Notum Wars is not part of the conflict (as much as folks hate to hear it--it is its own deal, sanctioned by the ICC. By it being sanctioned by the ICC, Omni lost its claim to persecute the Clans over it, and the Clans got what they were always asking for. Heck, the war should mostly be over now, if people weren't stupid and liked fighting. lol)
3) 9/10 times, general PvP is not part of the conflict
4) Being Neutral does not mean I am not involved in the conflict, especially when I get caught in the crossfire.
5) There are tons more reasons, which people would understand if they knew anything more about RP than "Me good, other bad. Me fight bad men!"

The ICC has already "backed" the Neutrals in many ways. They guard our cities. There is 1 (and really only one) Neutral-only item, and it is an ICC item. (Head Skinchip - ICC Engineer) There are a number of prominent Neutral rich folks out there. (Harry is one, tons of the merchants in 20K/PM are as well.)

The funny thing is... The lack of Neutral advantages isn't because of any real reason--and especially not an RP one. It is simply FC's lack of foresight that someone would not want to play along exactly with their planned "conflict" story. (Which, frankly, sucks and is rather boring...most people ignore it anyway, and use it as a thinly vieled excuse to initiate PvP or harp on Neutrals on the boards... *ahem*) Gee...so much for the "players affecting the world." lol

Funcom did not *plan* on people staying Neutral for long periods of time, therefor Neutrals were never devised with any useful advantages. However, this is an open-ended MMORPG, and the game needs to adapt to player uprising. There are a lot of Neutral out there. As we speak, about 7% of the population on RK-2 is Neutral. That's more than many individual professions.

The recent changes have made Neutral inbalanced, and that needs to be changed. I don't expect you to agree, because it's pretty much the same as a profession pissing contest--you wouldn't ever want to see anyone from another "side" get any upgrades if at all possible, regardless of the logic of doing so.

Also, and I will throw this in for the hunters out there, now that hunting is a viable source of XP... Ths hurts THEM as well. I know people who are at level 150ish and only have 100-200 tokens. Now that Funcom is encouraging outdoor hunting with more XP, dyna camps, etc... The token board upgrade is another step backwards from BS (or, should I say Clon****) running.

-Jayde

[Defiler]

you tellem Jayde!!!

I mean, most of the ots and clans dont even listen to the story they have their own advantages in mind.

Also, I am just wondering... who is backing the clans? the cot is gone now the most prominent is the sentinels? uhh ok... How exactly do clans have this token board when they do not agree on anything except that ot is bad? some want negotiotions some want straight fighting, when you get a token, you did a good deed for the clans, errr which part of the clans? The token board is such an abstract idea anyways, why would this thing increase skills and stuff?

Also, wouldnt the other sides want to let neuts use their save terminals at an increased price?? dont they want the money?! same thing with mission booths, dont they want us to help them out? if you say that they dont want secrets to be told to clan i will argue this: Why not let neuts 'hack' the terminals? there are so many missions from ppl who hacked it and what not...

I can understand not letting neuts buy weapons from ot/clan but health packs? how bout selling things? maybe dont let us buy stuff but dont you want my stuff?

Why do i see on the exchange forum crats wanting to trade a clan form for an ot form? Why are the war-mongerers able to put aside their differences when it is in their personal advantage? Ot and clanners should not trade with eachother, YOU ARE HELPING THE OTHER SIDE! I dont understand why they do not understand that. Neutrals should be the ones suppling both side yet they do not have the clan/ot shopping channels.

On a note about the crat suits, the neutral suit should be neut only and be the best! the neutrals are the ones who are trying to get both sides to compromise, it should be the best.

Also, i am not saying this is bad but when certain proffessions meet together their are clan and ot talking and helping eachother out, does your proffesion supercede you side in the conflict?! maybe we should have 12 sides then.

there is now that questionaire person when you make a new toon, it says i should be neutral, ok i am. I talked to the neut recruiter, he said nothing about this is just an inbetween point to choose ot/clan. Face it, neuts are here to stay

[Isgrimnur]

Jayde,

I think you might have better luck, and find a larger positive response if you suggest some things that the neutrals should have. I don't think you should have a token board per se, but a neck item that is unique and has certain advantages might be something you can suggest.

Also I would suggest (helping you out here) it NOT be token based, but rather quest based per title lvl, based on ICC quests, that only neutrals can do. However you want to recommend it, I suggest it be ICC based and unique, not just a copy of the current merit boards.

For armor, well I think there are enough good neutral types of armor out there that you can't really make a huge stink on this one. The new omni/clan armor is title 6...something most neutrals are very far from. MK2 is a very decent armor set that anyone can wear. Same with the others you mentioned. Also you probably should know Spiritual rites chest isnt nodrop, so that is something neutrals (if enough of you can do the one) might have a chance at.

Want special armor...well again ICC stuff??? Which should be subpar to omni. clans...kinda like UN stuff is subpar to USA equipment.

This whole thread should spurn a lot more debate. I honestly think FC ditched that idea of omni has better guns/armor and clans have better advantages...as both of these have never been into play. Both have better advantages than neutral...but fence sitters shouldn't expect to be the best...as you stated, just not the complete worst.

[Cemetarygate]

Originally posted by Jayde
I'm not whining about anything. Get over it. I can't stand it when people "whine about whiners." This is a play mechanics issue and it is a balance issue and I will complain about it until it is resolved.

Good luck.

You're telling me that these large upgrade were due to the game being made harder? How does that affect the ones without token boards, pray tell?

No, the token board was fine as it was. It was still the single more powerful single item in the entire game. Now, it is by far the single more powerful item in the game.

So, when Funcom decided to +100 (purely speculative number, by no means accurate) to mobs offensive skills that had no impact on the defensive modifers of the board? I suppose you're correct. I guess we should all just accept that +7 defense actually does something, right?

The fact that you can get it does not make it less overpowering, sorry. Find me another single item that does nearly as much as a token board. Also, consider that it has its very own slot that it can go into without conflicting with anything notable.

Not that fact that only I can obtain the board, the fact that everyone can obtain the board. Your unwillingness to accept that you can obtain a board is what makes you perceive the board to be so overpowering.

The board did not need "perspective." The board was fine and dandy as it was.

I do not have the tools to get a Token Board. Get over yourself. Neutral advantages are ceasing to exist as we speak. There are none. However, I have played 156 levels with my Neutral character, and there's no way in hell I'm using an application form.

You have the tools. You can see that yourself in the 'application form'. You are simply unwilling to use them. Again, that is your problem, no one elses. You simply need to come to terms with what you need to do in order to achieve the board.

While sided bigots seem to be unable to accept this simple fact, there is a VERY distinct line between "natural disadvantages" of Neutrals, and simple play-mechanics inbalance. Yes, certain choices can be penalized, but when it comes to simple affiliation, you can only go so far. Also, disadvantages need to be countered with other advantages. (Our so-called "free travel", etc..) However, those advantages are being stripped, while our disadvantages (or, should I say, the advantages of the other options) are being enhanced.

As it is right now, Neutrals are inbalanced. You may not like it, but it's true.

Who ever said there must be equal number of advantages and disadvantages? Ideally that's what everyone wants. That does not mean we all get, though.

Let's pose a question... What if they gave Token Boards (exactly how they are) only to 1 class...say Martial Artists. Do you think that would be fair? Heck no! Token Boards are simply far to powerful as-is without having some kind of resonable balancing force on the side of those without one.

There is a difference in that scenario versus the curret situation. Give the item to one class, sure. That's unfair because not everyone can become that class and use said item. Give the item to clan or Omni, sure. That's fair because everyone can become those factions and use said item.

[Cemetarygate]

This statement shows your lack of understanding:
"ICC could very well back the neutrals, but why would neutrals need more advantages to a conflict they are neutral to? "

1) PvM is not part of the conflict
2) Notum Wars is not part of the conflict (as much as folks hate to hear it--it is its own deal, sanctioned by the ICC. By it being sanctioned by the ICC, Omni lost its claim to persecute the Clans over it, and the Clans got what they were always asking for. Heck, the war should mostly be over now, if people weren't stupid and liked fighting. lol)
3) 9/10 times, general PvP is not part of the conflict
4) Being Neutral does not mean I am not involved in the conflict, especially when I get caught in the crossfire.
5) There are tons more reasons, which people would understand if they knew anything more about RP than "Me good, other bad. Me fight bad men!"

The ICC has already "backed" the Neutrals in many ways. They guard our cities. There is 1 (and really only one) Neutral-only item, and it is an ICC item. (Head Skinchip - ICC Engineer) There are a number of prominent Neutral rich folks out there. (Harry is one, tons of the merchants in 20K/PM are as well.)

The funny thing is... The lack of Neutral advantages isn't because of any real reason--and especially not an RP one. It is simply FC's lack of foresight that someone would not want to play along exactly with their planned "conflict" story. (Which, frankly, sucks and is rather boring...most people ignore it anyway, and use it as a thinly vieled excuse to initiate PvP or harp on Neutrals on the boards... *ahem*) Gee...so much for the "players affecting the world." lol

Funcom did not *plan* on people staying Neutral for long periods of time, therefor Neutrals were never devised with any useful advantages. However, this is an open-ended MMORPG, and the game needs to adapt to player uprising. There are a lot of Neutral out there. As we speak, about 7% of the population on RK-2 is Neutral. That's more than many individual professions.

The recent changes have made Neutral inbalanced, and that needs to be changed. I don't expect you to agree, because it's pretty much the same as a profession pissing contest--you wouldn't ever want to see anyone from another "side" get any upgrades if at all possible, regardless of the logic of doing so.

Also, and I will throw this in for the hunters out there, now that hunting is a viable source of XP... Ths hurts THEM as well. I know people who are at level 150ish and only have 100-200 tokens. Now that Funcom is encouraging outdoor hunting with more XP, dyna camps, etc... The token board upgrade is another step backwards from BS (or, should I say Clon****) running.

We've heard the 'this is just a game, make if fair for everyone' argument on many occassions now. Well, if it's just a game and you could care less about Funcoms ability to tie every item into the storyline/conflict, then what difference does it make if your neutral or not?

[Cemetarygate]

Originally posted by Stimmed
I mean, most of the ots and clans dont even listen to the story they have their own advantages in mind.

Also, I am just wondering... who is backing the clans?

Coalition of Rubi-Ka, Consolidated Clans, Dust Brigade, Eco Warriors, Gaia, Knights, New Dawn, Terra Firma, Sentinels, Solidarity, Vanguard or Unionists? Dunno, take your pick.

the cot is gone now the most prominent is the sentinels? uhh ok... How exactly do clans have this token board when they do not agree on anything except that ot is bad?

Exactly. We all believe in one thing, and go about our different ways to achieve that one thing.

some want negotiotions some want straight fighting, when you get a token, you did a good deed for the clans, errr which part of the clans? The token board is such an abstract idea anyways, why would this thing increase skills and stuff?

Nanobots.

Also, wouldnt the other sides want to let neuts use their save terminals at an increased price?? dont they want the money?! same thing with mission booths, dont they want us to help them out?

Obviously not. But then again, you're neutral. Why would you want to help anyone but yourself?

if you say that they dont want secrets to be told to clan i will argue this: Why not let neuts 'hack' the terminals? there are so many missions from ppl who hacked it and what not...

Good luck hacking.

I can understand not letting neuts buy weapons from ot/clan but health packs? how bout selling things? maybe dont let us buy stuff but dont you want my stuff?

Obviously not.

Why do i see on the exchange forum crats wanting to trade a clan form for an ot form? Why are the war-mongerers able to put aside their differences when it is in their personal advantage?

Because it is to their personal advantage.

Ot and clanners should not trade with eachother, YOU ARE HELPING THE OTHER SIDE! I dont understand why they do not understand that.

Called sacrifice. Sometimes you have to give something up in order to get something in return.

Neutrals should be the ones suppling both side yet they do not have the clan/ot shopping channels.

You're neutral. Why would you want to help me?

On a note about the crat suits, the neutral suit should be neut only and be the best! the neutrals are the ones who are trying to get both sides to compromise, it should be the best.

Typical. Everyone feels they should be given the best stuff.

Also, i am not saying this is bad but when certain proffessions meet together their are clan and ot talking and helping eachother out, does your proffesion supercede you side in the conflict?! maybe we should have 12 sides then.

Huh?

there is now that questionaire person when you make a new toon, it says i should be neutral, ok i am. I talked to the neut recruiter, he said nothing about this is just an inbetween point to choose ot/clan. Face it, neuts are here to stay

The only persons I keep hearing say 'neutrals are not wanted' are neutrals. If you want to be neutral, great. Be neutral. Stop telling yourself you're not wanted then comming here to the boards and telling everyone you're here to stay.

[Jayde]

Coalition of Rubi-Ka, Consolidated Clans, Dust Brigade, Eco Warriors, Gaia, Knights, New Dawn, Terra Firma, Sentinels, Solidarity, Vanguard or Unionists? Dunno, take your pick.

See, that's the problem... You have to take your pick.

Without the CoT to provide a unified body, there is no logical reason why Clan token boards should exist. (At least, any reason that couldn't apply to Neutrals as well!)

Obviously, the Clanners that oppose the Sentinals would not get (or accept) help from the Sentinals. Many Clans oppose the Eco Warriors. Many Clanners that would support the Sentinals, would not be supported by other Clans.

Sorry, but without the CoT around...there isn't an RP leg to stand on for the Clan Token Board that couldn't apply to the Neutral side of things as well.

Also, I do not have the tools to get a Token Board, within the means of my character. That's the problem with people who argue against Neutrals. They attempt to use RP against them, but then don't apply the same RP rationale to their own arguements. My character is a Neutral. He will not be joining another faction. Therefore, a Token Board is not available to him.

In addition, the comparison to profession is plenty valid. If you don't like your disadvantage, reroll! You can p-level up to your current level in a few days with a new profession. Doesn't mitigate the lack of balance.

Obviously not. But then again, you're neutral. Why would you want to help anyone but yourself?

Hmm... When was the last time I saw Neutrals shouting "NO! GET OUT OF NEWLAND! STOP USING OUR TOWN!"

The fact that Neutrals allow others to use our towns, terminals, and shops (rather heavily, I may add) should grant us at least the ability to use most scanners. But, this is a seperate argument...and a bit less important.

But, anyway... Trying to get any of these points across is really a lost cause. The same people that tell Neutrals they can't PvP because it's "not being Neutral" turn around and hang out with folks from the opposite site all the time--so, I don't expect any kind of consistantcy in these psudo-RP reasons for while Neutrals should be handicapped as much as they are.

-Jayde

[____________mgbkurtz]

omni's also have lower cost for save terminals and get other advantages in shops like the quartz rifle that adds +10 to treatment..

i know it's not huge in the grand scheme of things, but they are "advantages"

kurtz

[stromm]

Is it just me, or does EVERYTHING Lucid posts about get fixed? Like the initiation changes...

You hang out with GMs or something? Cause the rest of us thousands of players would like some changes done maybe you can hook us up...



Also Stimmed gives us a good rough example of how stupid roleplayers are.

[Defiler]

Cemetarygate--

you are saying nothing positive at all. "Obviously not" and "Good luck hacking" whats that about? I am giving suggestions and you dont say anything positive.

Also, about the think where ppl can put aside side differences to trade because its "Called sacrifice. Sometimes you have to give something up in order to get something in return" errr lets use an example from today:

I as an American soldier, buy extra weapons in america/buy bombs/missiles and trade them to Osama Bin Laden. US finds out... Think that defense will work in court? "I was sacrificing your lives for money in my pocket" hmmm.

Every single person who trades with the other side/buffs the other side should get auto switched to the other side. I see this all the time, clanner goes up to ot enforcer in nlc, " can I get an essence please?" and vice versa. You are gonna give him this buff so he can equip better stuff so that he has a better chance of killing ot employees? wtf?! After he gets on his new weap 'ot killer 2000' he is gonna get a mission and kill ot! errr ok...

and the thing about the 12 proffesions which you could not understand-- proffesions meet together and help eachother out regardless of faction. You are helping the enemy. If proffession is more important then your faction there should be 12 factions.

*note* -- i am not against these meetings, i am just showing the idiocy in RPing sometimes, then turning ur back other times. These meetings are needed and i have attended a few.

Also, currently there is no reason why clan has a token board in an RP sense. The cot is dead, and everyone is out for themselves. And, if it is just nanobots as you so elegantly put it, why would neutral not have one? i mean its just nanobots... --I do not care for a token board that is exactly the same--

about the neuts not wanting to help others-- ever hear of the healing hands? they help anyone regardless of faction. Also, if u ask for a buff from a neut they almost always help out, most of the times free of charge. And we allow others to use our scanners-- Rping, that is because there is not enough money for you to run it urselves-- counter RP, clans have no backing force, how do they afford it? and if u say sentinels or what not, they have their own ideas/views, you think they want someone who doesnt agree with all their views to use their term? for all they know, after ot is finished, ur next--

The main reason I do not pick a side is that there is no sides, everyone is out for themselves. And gankers use the story/faction to support their pvp. It is all a sham.

[Cemetarygate]

Originally posted by Jayde
See, that's the problem... You have to take your pick.

Without the CoT to provide a unified body, there is no logical reason why Clan token boards should exist. (At least, any reason that couldn't apply to Neutrals as well!)

Those groups I named are who make up the CoT. (Not all, but most). Funcom never stated these groups left along with Radiman. In fact, we can see still the Knights in Avalon, so we know they havn't fled.

See, that's the problem... You have to take your pick.

Without the CoT to provide a unified body, there is no logical reason why Clan token boards should exist. (At least, any reason that couldn't apply to Neutrals as well!)

Obviously, the Clanners that oppose the Sentinals would not get (or accept) help from the Sentinals. Many Clans oppose the Eco Warriors. Many Clanners that would support the Sentinals, would not be supported by other Clans.

Sorry, but without the CoT around...there isn't an RP leg to stand on for the Clan Token Board that couldn't apply to the Neutral side of things as well.

The point wasn't unification. The point was that members of the CoT are still around, despite Funcom having said 'the CoT has fled.'

As far as unification, however. The clans are still united in their cause, and many different groups are attempting to lead the clans in what they feel is the best way. With or without the CoT, that hasn't changed.

And for a more serious reponse, unlike my half-witted slap-stick attempt reply to Stimmed, the merit boards are awared by the 'clan community' as a whole, not the CoT. The clan community is still around, and as previously said, we are still united.

Also, I do not have the tools to get a Token Board, within the means of my character. That's the problem with people who argue against Neutrals. They attempt to use RP against them, but then don't apply the same RP rationale to their own arguements. My character is a Neutral. He will not be joining another faction. Therefore, a Token Board is not available to him.

You're currently experiencing what psychologist call denial and/org anger, and that is why you lack the ability to see this at present. Such a time will commence when you'll accept your present situation, and you'll either continue living without the board in better harmony, or you'll do what is necessary to achieve the board.

In addition, the comparison to profession is plenty valid. If you don't like your disadvantage, reroll! You can p-level up to your current level in a few days with a new profession. Doesn't mitigate the lack of balance.

You can turn your level 150+ character into clan or Omni and pick up a board within a matter of minutes. However, I cannot reroll my level 190 character and bring him back up to 190 in the matter of minutes (Or even a few days as you've stated). In fact, I would have a completly new character so I don't see what you're getting at.

Also, you bring up an interesting point. If you don't like your disadvantage, reroll! You're right. Another way for you to get a token board.

Hmm... When was the last time I saw Neutrals shouting "NO! GET OUT OF NEWLAND! STOP USING OUR TOWN!"

The point of my statement, a neutral was the first person to post 'Funcom, are neutrals not wanted?!' (Not a direct quote) before anyone else. So, again, neutral persons were the first to state they were not wanted, followed up by 'we are here to stay!'

The fact that Neutrals allow others to use our towns, terminals, and shops (rather heavily, I may add) should grant us at least the ability to use most scanners. But, this is a seperate argument...and a bit less important.

But, anyway... Trying to get any of these points across is really a lost cause. The same people that tell Neutrals they can't PvP because it's "not being Neutral" turn around and hang out with folks from the opposite site all the time--so, I don't expect any kind of consistantcy in these psudo-RP reasons for while Neutrals should be handicapped as much as they are.

I think we both can agree that Funcom intended neutrals to do nothing more than sit on the fence. They tied that to the story rather well.

From a gaming aspect, this is not fair, you're right. But again, if you are only here to game, what difference does it make what faction you are?

[Cemetarygate]

Originally posted by Stimmed
Cemetarygate--

you are saying nothing positive at all. "Obviously not" and "Good luck hacking" whats that about? I am giving suggestions and you dont say anything positive.

I wasn't trying to be positive. Actually, that was my dry sense of humor.

Also, about the think where ppl can put aside side differences to trade because its "Called sacrifice. Sometimes you have to give something up in order to get something in return" errr lets use an example from today:

I as an American soldier, buy extra weapons in america/buy bombs/missiles and trade them to Osama Bin Laden. US finds out... Think that defense will work in court? "I was sacrificing your lives for money in my pocket" hmmm.

You have to remember that this is an MMORPG. Real world scenarios such as the one you've presented don't apply here. So, I don't know why you even brought it up.

Every single person who trades with the other side/buffs the other side should get auto switched to the other side. I see this all the time, clanner goes up to ot enforcer in nlc, " can I get an essence please?" and vice versa. You are gonna give him this buff so he can equip better stuff so that he has a better chance of killing ot employees? wtf?! After he gets on his new weap 'ot killer 2000' he is gonna get a mission and kill ot! errr ok...

Better yet, why not change the game mechanics so that opposing sides can't buff each other. I don't ask the opposing sides for buffs anyway, so wouldn't bother me in the least.

and the thing about the 12 proffesions which you could not understand-- proffesions meet together and help eachother out regardless of faction. You are helping the enemy. If proffession is more important then your faction there should be 12 factions.

I'm fully aware what the professions do for each other. What I couldn't understand is why anyone is bringing up that particular point in a debate regarding the merit board, ergo my "Huh?"

*note* -- i am not against these meetings, i am just showing the idiocy in RPing sometimes, then turning ur back other times. These meetings are needed and i have attended a few.

The professions helping each other out have nothing to do with role-play. In fact, all of those discussions are out of character. Your lack of knowledge of in character and out of character is the problem.

Also, currently there is no reason why clan has a token board in an RP sense. The cot is dead, and everyone is out for themselves. And, if it is just nanobots as you so elegantly put it, why would neutral not have one? i mean its just nanobots... --I do not care for a token board that is exactly the same--

Again, the 'clan community' awards the merit boards in their struggle for freedom, not the CoT.

Plus, the CoT is not dead. Many supporters are still around Rubi-Ka, and many of the 'story line' based factions are still on Rubi-Ka. Again, an oversight on Funcoms part.

What are the neutrals fighting for to warrant a board?

about the neuts not wanting to help others-- ever hear of the healing hands? they help anyone regardless of faction. Also, if u ask for a buff from a neut they almost always help out, most of the times free of charge. And we allow others to use our scanners-- Rping, that is because there is not enough money for you to run it urselves-- counter RP, clans have no backing force, how do they afford it? and if u say sentinels or what not, they have their own ideas/views, you think they want someone who doesnt agree with all their views to use their term? for all they know, after ot is finished, ur next--

Clans have the backing. You simply refuse to acknowledge in an attempt to further your own position.

The main reason I do not pick a side is that there is no sides, everyone is out for themselves. And gankers use the story/faction to support their pvp. It is all a sham.

There are sides, you simply chose to ignore them.