Think carefully before you make bases more powerful please:

[_____________Meurgen]

I was reading the patch notes and saw that bases would be getting a 'boost'. I've participated in quite a few attacks on level 150 and 200 bases, and I agree with the sentiment. It's too easy for a good group to rush through the defenses and take out the Control Tower ending the fight right then and there.

But now after a couple fights against ql250 bases with multiple ql250 turrets, I'd like a bit of consideration before making them much more powerful than they already are. The medium sized group that started the rush got cut to pieces by the QL250 control tower and the three ql250 turrets surrounding it. Each one hits for an average of 800-1000 damage, and has a huge range. They each have hundreds of thousands of hit points... enough that it took an un-challenged team of around 12 people at least 5 minutes to drop a single Tower or Ransacking. (also ql250)

Once defenders started showing up, it quickly devolved. We took out most of the surrounding towers, but there was still the CT surrounded by 3 turrets. This fire could kill multiple people instantly even with doc support (killed the level 200 doc in my group before he could get off a CH). All the defenders had to do was stand underneath the Control Tower to be literally invincible. After 30 minutes it came down to us not being able to charge because of the huge firepower of the base, and them not being able to come out from under their shelter because of the power of the attacking force.

The fight was allright... it was kinda fun picking off the few strays dumb enough to step too far out, and getting picked off by random Kel's being thrown around, but it didn't get much accomplished, and I can see how this situation can and will play out in nearly every ql250 fight there is. I can't really say it's a bad thing, as ql250 bases shouldn't be that easy to take down. But I can definitely say this: if the ql250 towers were made any more powerful it would be completely impossible for attackers to take out a base. Each one is on the level of a ql250+ boss mob that takes 15+ players and a strong coordinated effort to take out... multiple towers, coupled with many defenders is just tipping it over the edge.

Not really a nerf call here, more of a leave it the same call. Could we possibly think it over a bit more before making ql250 bases even more powerful?

[Julka_Pomy]

Agree with Meurgen

250 turrets/conductors are nearly imposible to take out. Becasue they have insane HP defences plus add on top of that defenders a real people who cast all psoibele nasty stuff on you.

So here is me 10k HP lvl 188 doctor buffed with best fixer long itrm hot best doctor short tirm hot Dethless Blessings i am on full efence my evades been maxed 20 lvls ago.
We charge players who hide behind turrets so what we get i cast CH and in 8 seconds recharge i am dead... i look at damge log not a single playe hited me not a sinlge debuff was on me only two turrets shot me down.

Took 10 mintueis for 4 teams to take down conductor of will ql 250.

And there are 10 ql 250 turrets that needed to be taken down only that will take 1 hour plus add on top of that 200 turrets and defenders its imposible to take down ql 250 base even smal one in 4 hours.

[assassimon]

We have said that from the start that it's not possible to take down a big ql250 base, but FC never listen, so not very strange they make them even harder.

Reason why we take down ql150 bases fast is because we are lvl 180-200 mostly, ofcourse we rip a ql 150 base apart in afew min when we get 20+ people together.

I doubt the lvl 100 people take down a ql150 base very easy.

[Warlock]

First the disclaimer

I am not high level, the opions expressed below are just that.

Ok on with the show.

To be fair the 250 towers should be tough, they are at least 50 levels higher than the attackers and theres more than one of them.

I think the problem is expectation. This content scales up to the higher limits expected to be introduced in Shadowlands, people have already run the numbers on the new Yalms and seen they are impossible to equip, the sam goes for the towers. I'd expect them to stay 'almost impossible' until players are able to level beyond 200.

So on the one had grats to those orgs that were able to build such a high base right off the bat, and damn FC for not holding back the NW activation until the distribution was sorted out so all the high level orgs had a fair shot at it.

[_______________Ishii]

It could be that FC are holding on to this because Shadowlands will feature new more powerful equipment? But for now I agree that ql 250 towers are a pain to take down. Should be hard, but maybe alittle less hard than it is now.

[_____PrimeTechnocrat]

After looking at the stats of the ql 250 towers and reading Meurgen's account of his attack, I do agree that the ql 250 towers should not be affected by this new boost. They should definetly not be nerfed however because it is still possible for a dedicated group of 190+ people to at least destroy some of the towers and it makes since that the 250 towers should be vastly more powerful than the people attacking them. This may change in Shadowlands with the probable increase in the level cap but for now no boosts to 250's. However the boosts are still a great idea for towers of <200 ql because it disturbs me to watch level 150 bases be obliterated in under 15 minutes.

[_________Necrofiliak]

give us some sort of siege weapon to use against these towers or something to at least neutralize the uberness of the 250 towers. its wen there are more than one ql 250 tower hitting u that youre in trouble.

[_____________Meurgen]

Yeah I'm not exactly callin a nerf here... like Phingers said earlier... if they can build a ql250 base complete with multiple ql250 turrets then hell yeah, it should be really really friggin hard to take down.

And it is! Making it more powerful though (including it in the 10-15% hp boost) would go beyond really really friggin hard, and straight into impossible. That's not cool.

[Portulis]

Just a bump here bascially. I was at that fight with Pomy and Meurgen and I think the 250 bases have enough HP as it is. Without defenders and given a couple of hours I think we could have gotten it down. Anymore HP on those towers though means a reasonable sized base with 250 controllers and towers is invulnerable.

[_____________Meurgen]

::sigh::


And look, they did it anyways, without any patch notes, or testing whatsoever. Thanks a lot guys. :\

This thread is officially changed to 'Nerf ql250 towers please'.

Nerf.

[_____________Punkbum]

I think it SHOULD be impossible to take down a well planned and placed ql 250 base if u dont have 20+ dedicated 170+ players or even more, thats why they are so hard to put up and cost insanely much.
i think a ql 250 turret should hit for alot more than 1k dmg as a lvl 190ish player can allready get constant 2-3k hits... maybe lower hitpoints and ACs ...

kthxbye,

[_____________Meurgen]

It is impossible to take out ql250 bases if they have defenders.

We went back to the same base tonight, with more people. Punk, we had well over 20 people above 170, thanks.

For an *hour and a half* we faced little to no opposition. It took us this long to take out every single tower on the perimiter of the base. That's not too awful... but don't you think fighting a completely undefended base would give us SOME sort of overall advantage?

No.

Guess what? By the time we were attacking the last cannon tower on the perimiter, omnis showed up in force... at least 10 of them. This tiny resistance group (comprised of less than 4 members of the base-owning guild) easily kept our MUCH larger attacking force at bay for nearly an hour.

Punk, since you obviously haven't been in a major attack on a ql250 base, imagine: You have to kill the Obediancy Enforcer, Patricia Johnson, The One, or the Fiery Trainee. A ql250 control tower is roughly on par with any of those mobs... slightly weaker. The ql250 turrets surrounding the tower are as, or more powerful than any of the 'support' mobs found around the bosses.

In addition to fighting a mob *that* tough, you also have huge amounts of lag, and at least 10 high level omni players trying their hardest to kill everyone in your team.

I don't think it can be done. If you bring more people, you get more lag and LDs... it simply doesn't work. It's like telling someone to put ten rocks in a box big enough for five.

The fight is still going on right now I assume, if the attackers haven't been beaten badly already.... I stayed up too late helping anyways.

I'm 100% sure of it now: ql250 towers need to be nerfed.

[________________Kbok]

Originally posted by Meurgen
It is impossible to take out ql250 bases if they have defenders.

We went back to the same base tonight, with more people. Punk, we had well over 20 people above 170, thanks.

For an *hour and a half* we faced little to no opposition. It took us this long to take out every single tower on the perimiter of the base. That's not too awful... but don't you think fighting a completely undefended base would give us SOME sort of overall advantage?

No.

Guess what? By the time we were attacking the last cannon tower on the perimiter, omnis showed up in force... at least 10 of them. This tiny resistance group (comprised of less than 4 members of the base-owning guild) easily kept our MUCH larger attacking force at bay for nearly an hour.

The new "tower" patch isnt that bad, at least we have chacne, as european players (and as pretty small guild), that our base will be still there, where we placed it yesterday... If we could change the "25% grace" to our main-play time I bet you would find much more defenders as @ 9 am GMT (where 90% of memebrs are working)

[_____________Punkbum]

OK. Then cut the HP in half and reduce the heal-delta on non-controller-towers, but the damage *should* be high...

I have never been to a lvl 250 tower raid - and i agree that if there are no defenders you should be able to take the base down in the given 5 hours. But if there is defense it should be nearly impossible to destroy the base otherwise it would be another ql200 base ... keep in mind that a full ql 250 base can easily cost 250mil+

regards,

[OverCaffeinated]

Well, we came back later and the omni defenders gave up. The 20+ of us blew up all but one of the support towers to the base, and then attempted to take out the controller. Once it took about 5% of damage it's heal delta kicked in and we couldn't drop it's HP down at all. So, yeah a coordinated attack can destroy the towers at a ql 250 base, but the controler alone without defenders stood up to 20+ 175+ attackers at the same time.

I think the only tweek that need to happen is to lower the heal delta on the ql 250 controlers.

[Julka_Pomy]

So here we come again same base was charged by combined forces of Apocalypse, Synergy Factor and knights of Rubika.

We had about 30 people there. First we charged took out all surroundng towers and left controler and 5 ql 250 towers around it alone becasue alot of defenders who just sit behind the controler without real danger wel they did charge at the end and pushed us all to reclaim. I must say it was fun battle.
So one hour later when all defenders left we came back. Defenders placed 3 ql 200 turrets and 2 ql 218 turrets. We tok them out took out 4 ql 250 towers around controler and zone went 100%.

The fact is that it took almoust 2 hours to just destroy 4 ql 250 turrets and 4 ql 200-218 for 30+ people lvl 175+.. we didnt even scratch the controler. And we didnt have any defenders.
Plus thats a smal base. Now lets take a apoc base thats east from it with few ql 250 towers and ql 250 controler. Our base has almoust 60 ql 200+ towers imagine how long will it take to take it down lets say even without defenders.
I say the ql 250 bases a large one are imposible to take down unless you bring gazillion of people and just lay your way to controler trough lag and dead bodies.

Please fix it....

[Phinger]

Maybe but then you have admit there is a lot of a players capital put in building what is actually a very impressive base, I dont think it should be steamrolled....just because you can bring 30 players to a base when majority of the guild is offline.

You have had you days attacking at it nonstop. The guild hasnt even rebuilt from yesterdays attack, Maybe you will crack it on the third day.

If you want the towers reduced then Funcom should give the defenders the choice of when the gas changes to compensate them for a weaker base and thus defend it.

Phinger

[Julka_Pomy]

Originally posted by Fingers
Maybe but then you have admit there is a lot of a players capital put in building what is actually a very impressive base, I dont think it should be steamrolled....just because you can bring 30 players to a base when majority of the guild is offline.

You have had you days attacking at it nonstop. The guild hasnt even rebuilt from yesterdays attack, Maybe you will crack it on the third day.

If you want the towers reduced then Funcom should give the defenders the choice of when the gas changes to compensate them for a weaker base and thus defend it.

Phinger

Ye good point. But its a smal base do you think someoen will evere take out those omni bases in EFP ql 250? Band of brothers or MoK?
Hell even if they get all claners on them i doubt someone will be able to destroy 60 towers and controler in 4 hours.

Maybe balance it up a bit so smaler bases have bigger HP on towers larger bases have smaler.

[____________Travesty]

Some of the same camping guilds that complained that the Monstrous npc's needed to be nerfed because they are too tough now come to the defense of their Monstrous solar turrets.

Imagine trying to take on four or five Primus while getting sniped at by a SINGLE team of 180+ players. Now repeat that six times and thats about what its going to take to destroy a q220+ base. You have to destroy the towers otherwise the controller will heal too fast.

You will crash the zone with the army you will require to do it. Oh and bribe the defenders to rotate out only one team to defend it...just to give you a sporting chance.

[_____________Meurgen]

Exactly... last night's fight just reinforced what a problem we have with ql250 bases being a little bit over the edge. It's not Notum Wars... it's Notum Landrush. The cost doesn't really bother me, as I only personally invest 2-4M in towers at the *most*... the cost can be great, but it's spread over an entire guild which makes it hurt a lot less.

Wish I hadda been there for the second fight... but even staying up 'til 2 AM caused me to oversleep my alarm and show up three hours late to work. Having a life doesn't seem to coincide well with the requirements to dent up a shiny ql250 base.