You guys gonna finish the ENF weapons revamp?

[____________RedSonja]

Originally posted by Afelia


A ~140 Enf friend of me did Reset his HW skill yesterday. 2x 132 swift Daitos are so much better than the riders he used.

I tested with my 122 (now 131) Adv. There is no noticeable difference between a ql 200 Sol and ql 134 Swift Daito. (Tried dual ql200 Sols F and 200SolF+Swift Daito) I will switch to ql200 Sol F + Daito of Aptitude in PvP for the extra sneak attack. (Until Scissors at lvl 146)

The only player I've seen outdamaging me in team (when running aodd) is an Enf with 2x ql 133 Daitos.

But yes, I would love to see the new melee weapons at higher ql, as I would love to see the Ancient Adventurer Sword. An Adv with AAS + ql200 Daito of Aptitude will be fearsome.

-Af

I'm just not convinced.
I don't see how at Level 153 2 QL135 Swords (OK, they have nice enough stats) can possibly out-damage my current 200/187 Riders.
Basic & crit damage is higher on the Riders and speed really isn't an issue.
Maybe it would be worth me investigating things further, however when you put everything down on paper QL135 weapons are of no use to any higher level Enforcer.

[_____________Siiamak]

Enforcers arnt that overpowered as many including my self told u EQB is not something everybody can and will get ,, they can still do good dmg in pvp with other enf weapons but the no range thing is a big gimp.

with no way around it unless u wanna be able to throw ur EQB/QB out like a boomerang that does a areanuke of 10mill dmg and wipes out everyone but also disapears in the process making a last /voice Aha! in the process hmm enough said

and some soldier back there was whining bout they not getting enough and just TMS ,, dude little tiny dude its not just TMS its is TMS and wich means a Tough Mean Sob of a buff 1, 20 sec or whatever it is of hell in pvp duel and then u have alpha soldiers r very good in pvp nowadays and range that makes mezz useless ,, also helspinner is made in hell cause that rad dmg really can hurt.

also if we enfs get deprived we suck ,, no mongo no root break no nothing just sit there and be killed since there is no ranged , well there is root break fa thing but still ul behalf gone by the time ur out of there ,,

also in pvm enfs r the true tanks and dont whine bout not being good at pvm till u atleast get to 170 had a feeling a lot lower peeps whine about there class like they will be lvl 50 or whatever they r forever! , hihi like a 140 doc complaining give docs more we suck at low lvl ! ,,,,,, patienc young skywalkers lvl some and ul c most classes r very good in pvm and enfs dont steal agro as much as u think ,, and even if they do its te times when they need to be tanking and ul be glad they r there ,, but then there r times when a soldier or a ga fixer is a better tank with some mean old npcs they can be as good a tanks as enfs.

not saying enfs suck i am a enf my self just saying ease up on the overpowered thing will ya.

[secondkenlon]

Originally posted by RedSonja


I'm just not convinced.
I don't see how at Level 153 2 QL135 Swords (OK, they have nice enough stats) can possibly out-damage my current 200/187 Riders.
Basic & crit damage is higher on the Riders and speed really isn't an issue.
Maybe it would be worth me investigating things further, however when you put everything down on paper QL135 weapons are of no use to any higher level Enforcer.

Gimme your stats for weapon skills, attack rating, Brawl, Fast attack, inits, etc, and I'll slice and dice some numbers for you.

[____________RedSonja]

Originally posted by Kenlon


Gimme your stats for weapon skills, attack rating, Brawl, Fast attack, inits, etc, and I'll slice and dice some numbers for you.

OK, hopefully I have all that you require, I've just logged in from work which is a task in itself.

Following skills are unbuffed:

1he - 826
Heavy Weapons - 609
Brawling - 795
Melee Init - 771
Multi Melee - 769

I constantly run HW, 1he & Brawling Expertise plus Edge of Molybdenum giving me modified stats of:

1he - 935
HW - 629
Brawling - 815
Melee Init - 771
Multi Melee - 769
Attk. Rating (No challenger or anything) - 923

My fast attack skill is actually only 221 however this is without a single point being spent on it due to it being no use with Rider's.
If the kat's were an option I would of course reset HW and max Fast Attack
Currently using:
Rider QL200 - 10-484 (140)
Rider QL187 - 10-454 (131)

If using 2x QL135 kat's was to give me similar damage output then I'd change in a flash (still got 2hrs of work today, I'll log in again )
Very interested if you can get some figures out of all this.

Ta

[Sheilabeela]

Originally posted by RedSonja


I'm just not convinced.
I don't see how at Level 153 2 QL135 Swords (OK, they have nice enough stats) can possibly out-damage my current 200/187 Riders.
Basic & crit damage is higher on the Riders and speed really isn't an issue.
Maybe it would be worth me investigating things further, however when you put everything down on paper QL135 weapons are of no use to any higher level Enforcer.

At 184, I use a byom/daito combo (discarding my old ql 200 rider). Crit damage on the daito is only slightly lower than a ql200 rider and the crit value is much higher on the daito. I can assure you that it is better. One thing to remember is that if you dual wield daitos, your attack rating will increase by 100 pts, which can be significant. I am holding onto the byom for the 3k+ crits needed to hold aggro. Otherwise, I would be using 2 daitos (which also has sneak). If you switch to dual daitos (as I will when higher qls start dropping) you can reset HW and recover a ****load of IPs.

[Thyrra]

Originally posted by Sheilabeela
One thing to remember is that if you dual wield daitos, your attack rating will increase by 100 pts, which can be significant.

each weapon has its own attack rating, last i knew, though you only see the attack rating displayed for the 'main' weapon. it would be very nice of FC to change the display to show us dual attack ratings for dual weapons.

[ethernal3]

Basically its like this...

Ppl see the kind of dmg our weapons do in pvp and pvm and they get jealous. They want that power. Kids are like that.

I have a lvl191 EQB Atrox Enforcer.

QB is not that hard to get if you got some NT friends with you.

EQB is a totally different matter.
It takes alot of ppl and time to get it.


Point being? I don't give a crap about how hard it is to get, it still exists and it isn't impossible.


EQB can only be used at lvl 185.
It IS a hard item to get.


Whupdy-do


EQB is a MELEE weapon. It has 4m range.
Now, with all that in mind it should be very nice to use.

Put on a Yamagutchi scope, will increase to 6 meters. More than enough to counteract the lag you might get from chasing people.


Oh and Meurgen are you telling us what i think you are?
You want us...."nerfed"?
Sorry i dont like that, ask for a boost to your own class and stop *****ing about my class.

You know Funcom doesn't boost classes unless 99.99% of the player population agrees that they suck.

Wars
HAHAHAHA....nuff said.
Ranged ownz in wars.
With luck us poor EQB enfs can do some dmg to a unsuspecting fool, yes we can. But remember not ALL enforcers have EQB/PR...

Ranged "ownz" as much as 2700 runspeed does.

Look, I'm not gonna go out and say that the EQB/QB needs a nerf or anything, but, you have to understand that it IS overpowered.

~Chris

[____________Anikitos]

Tell that do the docs kicking my ass...while i am using EQB.

It is not overpowered, it has flaws. You just dont know them. I do and i am betting docs know them too.

There are alot of uber stuff in AO. EQB is one of them, at least for me.
Big deal...

[_____________Meurgen]

Originally posted by Anikitos
What the new weapons MIGHT do is:

Give us enforcers the option to maybe use something different then QB/EQB/PR.
A few of us have EQB now and some have PR too.
Yes i have EQB.
Not all enforcers can get those weapons.....

How exactly would it hurt your class Meurgen, if enfos got the new weapons up to ql200?

I agree there are other issues in the game with higher priority.
But why should it be so damn hard for them to put in ql200 weapons.....

I'll tell you how it will hurt my profession: how many of them are there total, like 12? That's 12 new ways for you to beat me into a bloody little pulp any time I step into a PvP zone... when you already have 4 or 5 very effective methods.

Sure you should get ql200 versions, when everyone else has been brought up to speed with the stuff you *already have*.

Yeah docs can beat you, welcome to the club. (no, I am not a member ) Because one class can hand you your ass doesn't say a whole lot about your profession's abilities as a whole... however when nearly any profession can hand you your ass on a regular basis..... you start to get a good idea of how it stands.

Variety is wonderful, yeah... but doing stuff like this takes time for the developers. If they spent all of their time giving more weapons to classes that are already doing extremely well, then where would that leave the classes who are NOT doing extremely well? There are so many things in this game that don't work... instead of saying 'doesn't bother me... i chose a non-broken profession! gimme some more fun stuff!' why don't you practice a bit of fair-mindedness and say 'yes i'd love some stuff, but frankly I think so and so needs something before you turn your love on me'. You don't think enfs are all that uber? I will tell you the absolute best gauge there is for the uberness of a profession:

Ymera.com's profession activity chart.

Check it out. Back when MAs were PvP gods, their ranks swelled to more than 17% of the game's population. Look now: the enf population has started on a steady incline since the nano changes and weapon additions, while the MAs (destroyed by the crit nerf) have already started to seriously dwindle.

(disclaimer: the gauge-theory doesn't hold true for traders, but I attribute that to the fact that most people just aren't willing to put up with how complex and tedious that profession is, no matter how uber)

I'll reitterate this again because I believe it is very important: I don't hate enfs, I don't want them nerfed. I strongly believe that they are one of the VERY few well balanced professions in existance. But before anything is added to them, I would like to see at least a few other professions acheive that balanced state of nirvana.

[secondkenlon]

Originally posted by RedSonja


OK, hopefully I have all that you require, I've just logged in from work which is a task in itself.

Following skills are unbuffed:

1he - 826
Heavy Weapons - 609
Brawling - 795
Melee Init - 771
Multi Melee - 769

I constantly run HW, 1he & Brawling Expertise plus Edge of Molybdenum giving me modified stats of:

1he - 935
HW - 629
Brawling - 815
Melee Init - 771
Multi Melee - 769
Attk. Rating (No challenger or anything) - 923

My fast attack skill is actually only 221 however this is without a single point being spent on it due to it being no use with Rider's.
If the kat's were an option I would of course reset HW and max Fast Attack
Currently using:
Rider QL200 - 10-484 (140)
Rider QL187 - 10-454 (131)

If using 2x QL135 kat's was to give me similar damage output then I'd change in a flash (still got 2hrs of work today, I'll log in again )
Very interested if you can get some figures out of all this.

Ta

Okay, assuming those stats and you running at full agg, a QL 200 executioner will kick out:
15120 points vs 0 AC.
12348 points vs 3K AC.
10494 points vs 5K AC.

A QL 135 Daito of Heart and Fist will do (629 Fast attack skill, also full agg.):
12390 points vs 0 AC.
9448 points vs 3K AC.
7491 points vs 5K AC.

The Rider does come out ahead, but there are a few secondary considerations:
What do you have implanted, HW or 1HE? What QL are the imps?
How much IP would you recover by resetting a dark blue skill and maxing a green?
How much would being able to FoB and fight on lower agg/def settings help you?

More data please.

[____________Anikitos]

I agree with you that some other classes need help, yes.

I agree with you that the Enforcer class is indeed a powerfull one and well balanced.

Why do i think that? Because every time i log in my chr i enjoy him 100%. Pvp, pvm, tanking uniques...i love everything about him.

The ql200 "new" weapons should NOT be hard for FC to add to the seller. I mean the weapons are ingame. Just change the ql.
How on gods name could that be hard.

If it does take time to do that then i think they should spend that time fixing stuff that REALLY needs fixing like some classes, lag and other stuff.

Oh, i can beat docs if i want to Meurgen....but then i need to switch my imps to 1hb(sticks) or Piercing(slayer claw, i got it).
With EQB i dont think i can.

I dont care much about that because atm i enjoy my Enforcer 100%.

[__________Curmudgeon]

Originally posted by Meurgen
I just can't help but think enfs have enough toys right now. Let other people have some fun too.

Getting back momentarily to the original thrust of this thread...

Just because many high-end enforcers have time, contacts, and patience to camp things like Obediency and Mantis Queen...that doesn't mean some of us casual players should be wielding garbage.

I came to AO because I was sick to death of camping static spawns in EQ, so I'm not likely to camp them in AO, where it's even more annoying.

Having those new enforcer weapons drop off team bosses in the QL136-QL200 range would be really nice for us non-uber players. They would not be as good as EoT, EQB, PR (which all the serious, uber PvPers would continue to strive for), but would give us casual PvM types a little more oomph than a QL200 Longmoon.

[____________Anikitos]

Good point...

[ethernal3]

Okay Anikitos... let me get this straight?

You're balenced because 1 class kills you?

...

~Chris

[____________Anikitos]

Nope my dear Megabio.


PVP
Following Setting: EQB on

Docs
Allways kill me unless proven otherwhise

Soldiers
Can kill me if they are smart. Trust me they can.

Traders
Can kill me

Fixers
Can kill me

MA
Will NEVER EVER DUEL ONE...unless they are fixed

Engi
I doubt it very hard

MP
I doubt it very hard

NT
I doubt it.

Agent
I doubt it very hard.

Advs
Could happen, but i dont see it.



I assume selfbuffed duel....arena...no ganking.

Ofcource i assume the ppl i duel have LOTS of skill. If not i will have them for breakfast.

But Megabio why exactly are we talking about DUELS?
Duels dont mean....****.

Talk about wars....anyone can kill me and anyone can kill you.
Welcome to Anarchy.

[____________Anikitos]

....and before i forget.

The above results are based on me with EQB and extensive knoledge of PVP vs all proffesions since about....first few days of release.

Not all have EQB/PR.
Not all of us know how to PvP equally good.
This is about HIGH end pvp, not mid or low lvl pvp.
This was about duels, NOT war.

So you see, alot of parameters to concider here.

Anikitos

[ethernal3]

Originally posted by Anikitos


Talk about wars....anyone can kill me and anyone can kill you.
Welcome to Anarchy.

Call me an absolute newbie and whatnot, but in Notum Wars beta, as a level 200 enforcer, I died twice. After 2 weeks. I was the first 200 rookie and apprentice there. Yes, I realize that many people were newbies there - but still. 2700 run speed keeps you alive in mass PvP.

And how can fixers kill you? (talking about GAMKIV)

How can traders kill you? Just don't use FoB so that they can't get a drain on you. (as you know FoB changes your aggro setting, and resist exponinentally reduces at higher agg)

...okay just wondering about this.

~Chris

[____________Anikitos]

Beta <> Real Server

My biggest problem is that of lag to start with. In order for me to do anything i need to get close to my enemy. 2.7k run speed sounds very nice but its a killer when you got thousands in ping.
Try to get close to a target and you will get the following:
FA, AS, Fling, Burst, divest, blind, nuke...etc etc....wrong move.


Speed is good, yes. Try getting divested and rooted then you are in for a fun ride.

Fixers? Ask them. Sure i could beat some of them in a controlled enviroment...

I can use fob if i want too..go full aggro...and insta kill the trader if he is selfbuffed. But there are things he could do to avoid that.
I could also go full def and resist some divests for fun. Ofcource the trader could go get mochams and predrain...then its game over.

Hmm, i wonder what title i would have in Beta...

Overall the Enforcer is good but we can be taking down.
I also see you did not say against me about the docs...good.

P.S
Fixers and traders can kill but so can I. Its up to the person fighting and the buffs running and also the enviroment that is the key.

[Thyrra]

Chris you are an absolute newbie and whatnot. that better?

[ethernal3]

Anikitos, that's sounds funny, coming from a mere apprentice enforcer. (for an enforcer, app = freshmen)
~Chris