You guys gonna finish the ENF weapons revamp?

[___________JagdTyger]

Yaz, I camped with my org the mantis queen a couple dozen times, I love taking my ADV in there.

But it kinda works like this when I was timing everything. It seemed to me to be a 1/1 drop rate for the QB on the mantis queen, you get a deffinate egg and blade each time, out of 8 total kills we got 8 blades and 8 eggs. After that if you clear the room, the spawn returns about every 10-12 mins a new breeder comes back, then the (cant remember what its called) non-breeder up on the north side, then 2 breeders spawn 1 min apart, and at last the 4th one spawns. Then the cycle repeats then the queen pops again. Takes about an hour and a half to 2 hours for the queen to respawn, and the rest of the room cycles twice.

Jagdtyger

[______________Yazule]

thanks jagd, could be the mesh spawn I was talking to someone about.... guess the QB is a cakewalk lol... geesh, two times I admitted to being wrong in the same thread!


ack!!!! I must be losing my edge

[_____________Meurgen]

Hehe

The problem is upgrading the QB to the EQB. It's a decent step forward in damage (from insanely uber to more insanely uber) but getting the DMM is a pain in the rear. The Diamodine Soldier seems to drop it 100% but yeah, he'll spank you good, too. The Diamodine Trainee drops it, but the rate sucks. I've helped kill her 4 times now for a friend and after 6 kills, he still hasn't gotten it. Sux0r.

[_______________Nikki]

Originally posted by Yazule
never have enforcers been UBER

Except for right now.

Ok how is this not uber -

over 1500 per non-crit hit (max 1/1 speed with the right items!) in PvP
highest HP in the game
sickeningly high AR = nearly impossible to evade

No, I don't get pwned by enforcers, and I'm not suggesting that before this patch you were uber. but you sure as heck DIDN'T need love, the whole point of a tank is consistant decent damage with a lot of life to survive - NOT to kill something faster than it has a chance to make a dent. duh.

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by americanthighs


Except for right now.

Ok how is this not uber -

over 1500 per non-crit hit (max 1/1 speed with the right items!) in PvP
highest HP in the game
sickeningly high AR = nearly impossible to evade

No, I don't get pwned by enforcers, and I'm not suggesting that before this patch you were uber. but you sure as heck DIDN'T need love, the whole point of a tank is consistant decent damage with a lot of life to survive - NOT to kill something faster than it has a chance to make a dent. duh.

Try reading through all the replies before you post about this lol.

oh, and I really wish the boards were not wiped because there used to be a thread where they talked about how melee were supposed to do more damage than ranged due to the disadvantage of not having range.

Yes enforcers have gotten better and again if you READ what I have posted in this thread you would know I feel other classes should have gotten love first, but I am not going to complain about getting love.

Also, realize that the only real agro tool enforcers have besides mongo (which can only be used when no mezzing is going on) is damage, and we are supposed to keep agro. Damage is about all enforcers do, so we get it in spades *shrug*... traders are still above enforcer on the uber scale except for maybe a few EQB users (and even then I bet a trader could kill them at least 50% of the time if they did the correct things).

Gods I like compairing enforcers to traders! bout time.

k thx.

*edit* oh and the real world tanks not only take lots of damage but they do more damage than any other land based weapons (well most anyway). The definition of tank from EQ does not apply... why you ask? because this is not EQ.

[ethernal3]

/me huggles yazzy tight

I lub you, but I gotta tear the thread apart a bit. Not trying to piss ya off though, just setting some things straight. *rolls eyes*

lol easy to get? drops every 10-20 kills with hours on the spawn rate? try keeping a team together for that. hehe

It drops 1/1. I've camped him a few times.


doc is #1 high end

#2 trader

Err... Docs are up top? As a gimpy engy I can kill docs. Enforcers can kill traders without much difficulty either - 1550 odd-some nanoresist generally stops trader drains above Divest.

and enforcer and GA4 fixa are now tied for #3 from what I can gather talking to folks up there.

You guys can beat GAMKIV fixers without too much difficulty. 1400 AR can bypass 3.1k evades every second or third hit. And since you hit them for max damage nearly every time, it can hurt them quit a bit. Gridding out can be a problem, but if you save the dimach till the end you can generally get 'em before they do so.


*edit* anything under 160 is lowbie alt?

Yes.


I never said we suck, enforcers are a really good class now, just not Ubah, and traders pwn /edit

Traders aren't gods, contrary to popular belief. Yea, they are probably number 2-4, but harldy the best.

*edit2* oh and EQB mesh is even harder to get than the QB! hehe campin 2 times for da uba loot!

ill say again, finally enforcers comin up, and when the new weapons are up to Q200 we may be up there with traders w00t!


Quit with the Traders are God routine: No they are not.

__________________________________________________ __


right now though there are not THAT many enforcers with this weapon, but that will change over time.

so yes, above 161 enforcers CAN be super duper with THE RIGHT WEAPON....

nobody can ever say I dont concede when the proof is in the puddin


Heh, but it's easy to get. Getting it to EQB form can be a pain in the buttox region, but, the EQB is only a 200-odd-some damage a hit (in PvP) difference, so it isn't "that" important.



ayup, I am 142 on my "main" quit the game for 4 months because BS missions are BS and I was no longer having fun. Does that mean I have no concept of game mechanics? roflol yeah right. I post my levels for all to see, nothing being hidden there, and saying my level matters makes about as much sense as saying someones postcount matters. Ususally an attempt to discredit someone when no other evidence is available.

I don't think we are debating about your knowledge to understand game mechanics. You are (nearly ) as well versed as me in game mechanics, but, you must understand that level 161+ PvP is a whole different ball game from 150>.

As for your comment on doing the most damage and then taking the most... Doesn't that seem a bit unfair? Roots aren't a very valid excuse anymore, namely because of rage - 1500 Nano-Resist does work. Anyway... my two cents.

you are one of the only people I let call me yazzy gridphreaky! Lucky you!
/edit

/hugglez

~Chris

[_____________Meurgen]

Mega just covered everything.

I'll repeat though, traders aren't gods in the slightest. That's a vicious rumor started by people who've never played one before.

It's worth noting however that as the pvp progresses into higher levels (like mega said, over 161) traders get considerably weaker... just like metas. woot! It comes from completely relying on the exact same set of nanos that you relied on when you were level 130.

[______________Yazule]

<<< has a 112 trader who thinks he is god lol

but then again, look who is playin it!!

ill come back later to go into long windbaged detail about somethin or another... whatever strikes me I guess

docs go in #1 only because they have da healin powah... and at that level they have basically the same q weapons in whatever catagory as anyone else.

kk ... off to the bar,

*shudders at gettin a huggles from gridphreaky*

[_____________Meurgen]

That level is when traders are at their best. It's easy to OE folks, and nobody has the nanoresist to repeatedly resist your drains.

Imagine fighting someone who resists your first 3 drains, and when you get off your 4th you realize that he's still at 100%... by then you're nearly dead.

[Kinkstaah]

I'd like to see QL200 weapons of those appear available.

In regards to current weapons, I tend to agree that FC as usual has gone a bit overboard with the loving. I'd much rather see every enf have a choice between many different styles (weapon shop) as opposed to one or two disgustingly uber items (EQB/PR)

However they do have *some* weaknesses, the first one is movement. Always move. Never stand still in front of an enf. Yes, he can hit while running, but it is a lot harder to hit someone who is moving all over the palce when you have 4m range to keep in, especially with a slow weapon.

And in regards to "1400AR" enfs dont generally have that much AR unless they are running challenger. Challenger has a 24 second nano lockout at the high end. In the arena it is common practice to challenger up, and wait out the recharge outside the 25/0% zone (lame). And thus use it without the penalty.

Outside of the arena, I need challenger to hit a fixer. Thus having 24 seconds of pure "eep" where I cant do much if rooted, or shot at etc. 24 seconds isnt that long, but it's certainly long enough to get dead in mass pvp... where I dont think the enf is *too* unbalanced right now....

[Kinkstaah]

I do however believe, that QL200 versions of the "enf" weapons are more 'balanced' than the EQB and PR are.

[_____________Meurgen]

Yeah, they are... enfs do have a few problems right now, such as crowd control making them unable to hit towers...

But I really don't see any problems concerning the weakness of your weapon repotoire. Sure you getting ql200 versions of those weapons would be cool, but jesus man, there are *so* many other things that have higher priority (in my mind) out there. As long as enfs have an unnerfed QB to use, I'd rather they not get anything at all...

I tried to move in that fight against bigmongo... I had turned around about 60 degrees and was almost facing the bunker doorway by the time I died. Running away is hard when it's 850 runspeed against 1300. :\

[Thyrra]

Originally posted by Meurgen
But I really don't see any problems concerning the weakness of your weapon repotoire. Sure you getting ql200 versions of those weapons would be cool, but jesus man, there are *so* many other things that have higher priority (in my mind) out there. As long as enfs have an unnerfed QB to use, I'd rather they not get anything at all...

these things are already implemented. all FC has to do is some minor flag switching and/or table entry editing to have them drop.

[Grontha]

Just a sidenote to all those saying EQB is 1:1. The only way I can get my EQB close to 1/1 is by raging/implant/FoB. That is something I can only do when I can prepare for a battle (duel), and it's very dangerous, because peeps crit you alot easier. Normaly, my EQB runs at 1.5/2.5 (with rage).

And, the syncronising of this game is abit messy, so if the oponent runs around abit I tend to stay trying to hit air. It's next to impossible to fight anyone moving around. On my screen it looks like my opponent is standing there, but in reality he is 50 meters to my right(or something) :-)

If my target stay put , I do agree that he will be in for some pain. And, to all you traders out there who thinks I can resist everything. It is simply wrong. With 1500 NR I "might" resist the ransack(the one with high defskill NR), but the 100% res gets in more often than not. If I go max def, of course my chances improve alot, but the 100% still get in rather easily. In a duel, I think I have a fair chance vs traders, but duels are not any good option anyways. It's mass-PvP that counts, and the running around part keeps me from "owning".

[Inconvenience]

Someone posted here that enforcers should do more damage because they have a range disadvantage. I'll ponder that at reclaim the next time I try to root a raging enforcer with a queen blade.

[secondkenlon]

Originally posted by Kinkstaah
I do however believe, that QL200 versions of the "enf" weapons are more 'balanced' than the EQB and PR are.

Perhaps, but they are still utterly *wrong*. Take, for the sickest example, the Rough Black Staff of the Locked Fist. Easily useable self buffed at level 140. (Solitus, no special items.)

Run that through Jayde's weapon damage calculator:

Attack rating 871. (Base skill + QL 200 Bright and Shining + Brutal Thug + 2hb Expertise.)
Fast attack 556. (Base Skill.)
Sneak attack 556. (Base Skill.)
Brawl 616. (Skill + Expertise.)
Melee Init 1004. (Base Skill + Burning Rage + QL 200 Bright and Shining. Was unable to determine just how much bonus a QL 110 FoB would give.)
Full Agg.
Target AC set to 5K.


Still does 13314 points. Without the Sneak attack added to the calcs.

Compare:
Level 140 Solitus Soldier.
QL 200 Nova Flow Mk IV

Assault Rifle 823 (Skill + QL 200 Shining and Faded + Expertise + AR Mastery)
Ranged energy: 791 (Skill + QL 200 Bright and Faded + Expertise + RE Mastery.)
Attack rating: 805.
Burst 701. (Skill + Expertise + Power of Three.)
Fling 437.
Ranged Init 807. (Skill + QL 200 Bright and Shining + Attack Booster.)
Agg at 45%.
Target AC set to 5K.

Does 6858 points.
51% of the enf.

Drop the AC down to 3K.
Soldier: 8909.
Enforcer: 14756.
Soldier is at 60%.

Move the enforcer's Agg/Def bar to match the soldier.
5K AC: 10332 points.
3K AC: 11568 points.

Something's horribly broken here. And I think it's obvious.
Your new weapons are *insane*.




This is mudflation, pure and simple. And it's *stupid*. There was nothing wrong with enforcer's damage output before these weapons came out. All you needed was taunt improvement.

[goodonedorks]

Originally posted by Meurgen


Oooh nice post, obvoiusly well researched. It's hard to get? That's odd... an NT and I took out the mantis queen a month ago. We've gotten the EQB for 4 enfs in my guild in the past two weeks and will get another one tonight... a group of six can do it no sweat. 100% of the enfs I fight have either the QB, a Punishment rod (rare, yes), an EQB (rare, yes) or a slayerdroid crystal claw (yeah rare too), which does very similar damage (hits half as hard, and twice as fast). The QB is a relatively common drop.

Yes you might notice that it's the QB, not the EQB. Good observation, slick. And I don't see my 'protection' menu open anywhere in that pic... how again did you know my chem ac is negative? That kind of damage must mean my chem AC is at least -3000.

Oh crap, it's slow? No kidding? Sheesh, research helps in these situations, doesn't it? So does first hand experience... /eyes the level posted in the sig.

Yes, he's level 180+, and guess what! He, along with any other enforcer in the game who is level 161 can use it. Have trouble getting it? Try making more than two friends in the game instead of sitting on your ass all day making half-brained replies to serious posts.

Meetloaf: Swinging the same club around for your entire career sucks, doesn't it? Hold on while I show off my large repotoire of demons and meatballs. There's a tan one, a tall one, one that floats, one that humps tables when he's mad, and one that couldn't hit an enemy if *my* life depended on it. Be happy you got anything.

/edit: oh yeah, the crystal claw is rare too.

qb isn't enf only..................nor is eqb, in fact, i know an NT with eqb..............

so don't wine about the damage, equip it yourself and try it before you get to enthusiastic

[goodonedorks]

Originally posted by Kenlon


Perhaps, but they are still utterly *wrong*. Take, for the sickest example, the Rough Black Staff of the Locked Fist. Easily useable self buffed at level 140. (Solitus, no special items.)

Run that through Jayde's weapon damage calculator:

Attack rating 871. (Base skill + QL 200 Bright and Shining + Brutal Thug + 2hb Expertise.)
Fast attack 556. (Base Skill.)
Sneak attack 556. (Base Skill.)
Brawl 616. (Skill + Expertise.)
Melee Init 1004. (Base Skill + Burning Rage + QL 200 Bright and Shining. Was unable to determine just how much bonus a QL 110 FoB would give.)
Full Agg.
Target AC set to 5K.


Still does 13314 points. Without the Sneak attack added to the calcs.

Compare:
Level 140 Solitus Soldier.
QL 200 Nova Flow Mk IV

Assault Rifle 823 (Skill + QL 200 Shining and Faded + Expertise + AR Mastery)
Ranged energy: 791 (Skill + QL 200 Bright and Faded + Expertise + RE Mastery.)
Attack rating: 805.
Burst 701. (Skill + Expertise + Power of Three.)
Fling 437.
Ranged Init 807. (Skill + QL 200 Bright and Shining + Attack Booster.)
Agg at 45%.
Target AC set to 5K.

Does 6858 points.
51% of the enf.

Drop the AC down to 3K.
Soldier: 8909.
Enforcer: 14756.
Soldier is at 60%.

Move the enforcer's Agg/Def bar to match the soldier.
5K AC: 10332 points.
3K AC: 11568 points.

Something's horribly broken here. And I think it's obvious.
Your new weapons are *insane*.




This is mudflation, pure and simple. And it's *stupid*. There was nothing wrong with enforcer's damage output before these weapons came out. All you needed was taunt improvement.

i'll trade ya damage for 40m range then, sound fair? see there's the trade off, also you have TMS, it's DIFFERENT, not fair or equal....

so does having 12 hp and you have to be at full aggro = full defense, tms and 6 hp? *shrug*

you can't just say, well you do xxxxx damage in that time, and i do xxxxx, there's other factors

to mention, almost all of the new back armors added have bad radiation ac (hellspinner) and hellspinner has that rad ac purge thing on it too.

a smart enf can beat a soldier in a duel alot of the time, but in a major battle, a soldier shines because of his range, as were an enf might be eaten up before he even gets in range to hit the 20 people alpha'ing him

[delsabre]

Originally posted by Slickblue


lol, you got owned. The only enforcer weapons that I know, which isnt really two, that does chem damage is:

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?cmd=view&id=157761

and

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?cmd=view&id=202264


Both rather hard to attain.

It apears that bigmongo, who is 180+ is able to weild this weapon. I think you have no say so. Your acs probably suck against chem dmg, and yes that is a damn nice weapon but its slow. On another note, diamch is blue here bud, it apears that he actually worked on that sume, and owned you with his skill, maybe you just don't have PvP in you.

Now is there anything else you'd like to make an ass of yourself about?

-Slick

As someone stated, EoT is Chem as well, but the point is that QB isn't very hard at all to get, considering Den Mantis Queen spawns in less than an hour, has about 50% drop rate, and a 4 people lvl 130 team can kill her without much sweat.

1x Trader/Enf, 1x Adv, 1x Soldier, 1x NT took us about an hour to get 2x QB and some other junk. 4 QB total in about 4-4.5 hours.

[delsabre]

Originally posted by smotheredhope
Someone posted here that enforcers should do more damage because they have a range disadvantage. I'll ponder that at reclaim the next time I try to root a raging enforcer with a queen blade.

Hmm root dies, enf alpha you before the nano recharge is halfway back.