Neutrals?

**____________Marlamin** · Dec 10th, 2002, 19:11:53

Originally posted by Trisagiona

And Marlamin... watch me weep *laughs out loud*. Narrowminded Omni *shakes her head and walks away*

I am pretty sure you will weep when you will lie bleeding on the battlefield with your comrades running away as fast as they can, The others: Dead. You have forsaken your neutrality "Clanner".

- General Goliath Marlamin Thay of Chimera Employee of Omni-Tek

**Jayde** · Dec 10th, 2002, 19:14:22

Originally posted by Benjacrat
No Tris, it did not come from "The Clans", it come from "Some Clans."

The Clans - Implies any person who is clan.
Some Clans - Implies exactly what is says "some" clans, not all.

I have learned not to put all Independants in one bag. How is it now Ok, for you to put all Clanners in one bag? So unless you want me to label you as being as ignorant as I was. It was simply a bad choice of words on whomevers behalf made the statement.

Dont be upset with me for arguing with you, but the threat is not from "The Clans." I am clan and I pose no threat to anyone. I am level 25 and a Crat. 1 Rollerrat could kill me with its tail behind its back.

The problem is that you talk broad political statements too personally.

"The Clans" simply means "Clans as a general rule" or a psudo-majority.

And, unfortunately, everything I have said relating to them has been practices my more Clanners than not.

Of course, I do not mean that all Clanners are this way. However, in my experience, a vast majority are--at least right now.

-Jayde

**Jayde** · Dec 10th, 2002, 19:20:43

Originally posted by Marlamin

I am pretty sure you will weep when you will lie bleeding on the battlefield with your comrades running away as fast as they can, The others: Dead. You have forsaken your neutrality "Clanner".

- General Goliath Marlamin Thay of Chimera Employee of Omni-Tek

Big talk from a small detatchment with hardly any firepower.

Big deal.

It's obvious that you don't have much experience in the world of politics or negotiation. Perhaps it makes you feel more important or powerful to threaten Neutrals.

Just because someone is Neutral, does not make them weak. Declaring that you will micarculously slaughter all Neutrals that cross your path is a pretty rash statement to make without the manpower to back it up.

Hope you never pick a fight with these guys.

-Jayde

**Praecautus** · Dec 10th, 2002, 19:37:33

Originally posted by Benjacrat
No Tris, it did not come from "The Clans", it come from "Some Clans."

The Clans - Implies any person who is clan.
Some Clans - Implies exactly what is says "some" clans, not all.

I have learned not to put all Independants in one bag. How is it now Ok, for you to put all Clanners in one bag? So unless you want me to label you as being as ignorant as I was. It was simply a bad choice of words on whomevers behalf made the statement.

Dont be upset with me for arguing with you, but the threat is not from "The Clans." I am clan and I pose no threat to anyone. I am level 25 and a Crat. 1 Rollerrat could kill me with its tail behind its back.

OOC: Hope to see you soon Tris.

Benjacrat, read what Tris said again. I think you have misunderstood her.

**Fixerben** · Dec 10th, 2002, 19:45:43

Or perhaps the view from the inside is a little clearer. I know more guilds against the Sentinels that I do for them. I wont deny that some guilds hate neutrals. But coming into this forum, and saying these things to us is a little insulting. How would you like me to come into a discussion where you are talking about how you like to be peaceful towards Clanners, and I come shouting "NEUTRALS ATTACK EVERYONE, THEY ONLY HIDE BEHIND THEIR NEUTRALITY." Just as you accuse us of hiding behind Simon "Silverstone".

"If I'm not mistaken, this is a discussion about "Neutrals?", not about Clan internal politics. "

Ok so if this was about Neutral politics, why did you say this?

"The Sentinels are now dictating Clan policy within Tir"

hm...sounds like you are the one that brought up Clan politics to me.

Look my problem here is, that you came into a peaceful thread and started accusing us of things we dont do. So if you want to go gripe about the Clanners please dont do it here. We are not like the people you speak of, and we dont appreciate this.

**Fixerben** · Dec 10th, 2002, 19:50:51

double posted

**Fixerben** · Dec 10th, 2002, 19:52:07

doh...

Sorry Tris, ignore that last post. I am going to delete it. I owe you lots of Sake and Leet treats now...

Sorry

**Fixerben** · Dec 10th, 2002, 20:25:10

"However, there are deeper issue which I spoke about, aside from the Sentinals issue, that you seem content to ignore due to wishing to argue my opinion. "

And I ignore the thing that you speak of which I assume is "The Notum Wars" because I am not involved in them in any way. I dont have any towers. I dont mine. I talk of peace, that is all...

**Kyrstina** · Dec 10th, 2002, 22:12:12

I don't have a mine either. Maybe in the future, but not today. And as I see it, the issue of peace should be our driving force. But we must realize that one cannot tackle the issue of peace on Rubi-Ka these days without the Notum mines coming into play. Territory has always been a big part of conflict, and I don't doubt that it will be the case here.
I do think that we should approach the mines with the goal of peace in the end. But they will be brought up and they will be discussed. This is a widely discussed topic right now, and it worries me particularly. As I currently belong to no guild, and can only speak for myself, I feel as though I run the risk of being lumped in with the majority for its actions as a whole, and I don't plan to let my name be smeared for the actions of others. I plan to make a name for myself however I can, and will continue to work towards those means.
I believe peace is obtainable, and I think that neutrals will play a key role in this. First, we have to start acting like neutrals though. We have to be willing to listen to both sides of the conflict with open minds. I know clansmen and Omni personnel who think so much alike, you might mistake them for members of the same faction. I personally believe our "job" as neutrals is to find those common goals between the two and try and lead them to a positive end. It's not our job to say who is right, and it certainly isn't my place to tell that to people, but it is my planet, just the same as it is everyone elses. I wouldn't want my children or their children to have to deal with the climate and atmosphere that we are having to deal with.
Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now.

**Fixerben** · Dec 10th, 2002, 22:50:54

wo0t, another truly "Neutral" person. Though my character has a clan alignment I would consider myself neutral. Or as the popular term now is "Independant". I have no allegiances to anyone but the lady I court, whose name is Peace. She will be my mistress until the day I am allowed to introduce her to the rest of Rubi-Ka and all the days after. It is refreshing to see a "Neutral" person. I personally do not associate you with anyone, as you have no guild, and no affiliations.

If you are interested in aiding us in our endeavour towards peace please let either Nelida, Alamexis, Yarko, or I know that you are interested. Though you have no guild, everyone is important. Those of us that have no profit to be gained from peace are even more welcome than those that do. No one can accuse us of having ulterior motives.

So if you would like to meet, let me know. I'm sure you would be welcome at our next group meeting, or if you would like to meet with one of us personally I know I wouldnt mind, though I cant speak for the rest of the group.

**Kyrstina** · Dec 10th, 2002, 23:20:25

Of course. I am quite interested in taking whatever steps I can to help out. I think that it can be resolved peacefully, and it only takes the properly motivated people to do so. Send me a tell sometime.

(Slightly offtopic, but I'm am on vacation for the next week, and I'll be spending quite a bit of time on AO, so I'm very happy about that.

Go me!)

**Fixerben** · Dec 10th, 2002, 23:24:33

Well my friend, I will be off planet tonight. So I hope to see you soon.

((OOC: However I will be playing Fixerben if you would like to send me a tell. I will be on around 10:30-11:00pm EST until 2am EST.))

**Gonoc** · Dec 11th, 2002, 02:21:27

Originally posted by Marlamin

I am pretty sure you will weep when you will lie bleeding on the battlefield with your comrades running away as fast as they can, The others: Dead. You have forsaken your neutrality "Clanner".

- General Goliath Marlamin Thay of Chimera Employee of Omni-Tek

I say: You big woolheaded atrox, you just try it. I've got enough bullets for you and your friends so bring em on hotshot.

Then we'll be laughing when you run away with our fence-posts wrapped around your ears and screaming for mercy.

**Destractor** · Dec 11th, 2002, 02:42:58

I looked into joining both omnitech and the clans, both have too many limitations.

Omni tech wouldn't let me sell my services to the terrorists.
Clans would not let me sell my services to Omnitech.

What could I do?
I just want to improve my skills as an engineer, and maybe make a little profit on the way.

This is why people see me as neutral.

I joined the Indepentent Rubikans as they were a friendly bunch who didn't mind who I helped. They helped me through the hard times, sharing armour and equipment to defend myself on this dangerous planet.

For this reason I will always help my friends in the guild before others, and give my services for free to them.

They are non aggressive towards clan and omni, and have helped both sides on numerous occasions.

When the ICC opened notum mining to the masses, IR started a couple of mining opperations, to help it's members out.

They have never entered the so called war, other than being caught in the middle and defending themselves and their friends.

Yet the mines have come under attack. Not for political reasons, but simply through the greed of others. These have been defended well.

I have not joined the war, I will continue to make equipment for clans and omni personel, for a reasonable profit margin. And free of charge to my friends.

My equipment is designed for the purpose of defending against mutants on this dangerous planet. I take no responsibility if it is used for other purposes.

Chief Engineer Wilfred "Destractor" Keppler

**Jayde** · Dec 11th, 2002, 03:37:54

Sorry, Benjacrat... I see no use in continuting this discussion. You seem to want to make this about yoru own personal beefs and argument rather than discussing the original article posted.

My first reply was a reply to that article, not to you or your standpoint. In fact, aside from my previous post, none of my posts were. I am replying to the article, not to you.

And, yes, the Sentinals ARE dictating Clan policy in Tir. And if you cannot see that, you are blind. If you're against that, so be it. But as a Neutral stepping into Tir and getting shot at, with absolutely no assistance and plenty of jeering from the crowd, it is painfully obvious.

If you have such a problem with me saying this, you should not be making statements such as "wo0t, another truly "Neutral" person."

But, this topic is about land control. And my resoning is simple: Notum mining is not an extension of the war, simply a right granted by ICC recently. Anyone who wishes to carry it over is simply using the war as a justification for further violence and aggresion.

My statements regarding Clan politics were simply because the original article was written by a Clanner, and was critisizing the ability of Neutrals to mine Notum and be Neutral. I simply pointed out that is is disappointing to have members from an orgiization that was founded upon the freedom of citizens from large conglomerates trying to force the same weight upon Neutrals as Omni-Tek did to them years ago.

You also continually accuse me of making statements and assertations that I simply did not make, which is the main reason for me exiting this discussion. If you wish to take my words, draw strange conclusions from them, and spend the rest of the time arguing the points that were mostly fabricated...there is really no purpose in me replying.

I find it uplifting that not all Clanners support the Sentinals. But, until I stop seeing most Clanners turn a blind eye while Sentinals ravage the Neutral population, I will have a negitive feeling towards the current Clan political climate. If I keep getting shot on sight when I come to Tir while Clanners sit by and watch, I doubt my opinion will change all that much.

Of course, I never stated what Clanners *should* be like, mearly my current observation of recent activites. You, on the other hand, have the gumption to tell me what a "true Neutral" should be like, despite the fact that you are not one. There is a differnce between having an opinion about one's actions, and trying to define one's state of being. I think the Neutrals are quite capable of defining their own identity and purpose without your input.

I apologize if you take this so personally, but, to me, this is a simple matter of politics. I am engaged with Omni and Clan orginizations on a daily basis for multiple reasons, not the least of which is constant bridging of ideals with the goal of peaceful reconsiliation. So to see you sitting there preaching to me as if I know nothing about the current political climate is rather irritating.

I wish you luck in your endeavors, and hope you are able to reach your goal of peace.

-Jayde

**________________Necc** · Dec 11th, 2002, 07:23:02

Originally posted by Benjacrat

Look my problem here is, that you came into a peaceful thread and started accusing us of things we dont do. So if you want to go gripe about the Clanners please dont do it here. We are not like the people you speak of, and we dont appreciate this.

If you only want the answers yourself think is good, perhaps you shouldn't have posted.

It so happens that the Neutrality issue is one that I'm deeply involved in, for obvious reasons. Telling us to not post unless we have something to say that you want to hear, is a bit strong I think.

If I have offended anyone's ego I apologise, but perhaps those offended should look into why you reacted so strongly. I understand that there are many people doing good things for neutrals, but if you expect praises for it you might be doing it for the wrong reasons.

**Fixerben** · Dec 11th, 2002, 16:51:54

Yes, the whole point of this thread was to get my personal beleifs outin the open. It was not meant to have people come in and begin slandering the Clans.

**Kyrstina** · Dec 11th, 2002, 20:10:39

I think the reason people have been tough on the clans here and in other threads is that we expect and hold them to a very high standard. I would like to see a world where everyone respected everyone, and we could all live in peace, but that is a hard goal to reach, and it is currently not our political climate.
I have always thought the clans were formed to fight for the rights of the common man. At least that's what I've been lead to believe. I think that, for us neutrals, to see anyone who is not of your side as an enemy is a poor strategy, whomever the party is. No form of government has stood where this has taken place.
Don't get me wrong here. I believe that Omni-Tek should be held to the same standards of fair play and equalness and peace and all. In fact, if you boil it down, both the Clans and Omni-Tek have the same goal basically: to better the people under them. Some may argue that point, but it is essentially true.
But back to the matter at hand. Don't take "clan-bashing" to mean that all neutrals hate the Clans, or anything to that effect. I personally would just like to see us all try a little harder to get along. I can't change the world (yet, anyway) but I do my part by treating all those who come to me with the respect they give me, and do my best to be a friend to all, be they Clan, Omni, or neutral.
Just keep in mind that the decision you make don't just affect you, but an entire planet. Take into account what is best for all, not just what is best for you. Think of the larger picture before you strike out, and maybe we will learn more tolerance. (and yes, this applies to neutrals too)

**Vixentrox** · Dec 11th, 2002, 20:54:33

Kyrstina

You seem very level headed person. I would like to extend an invitation to you to meet with myself and my officers. Let me know if this is something that would interest you.

**Kyrstina** · Dec 11th, 2002, 22:27:17

Always.

I am always open to meeting and talking with anyone who will listen, and listening to anyone who will talk. Understanding is the first step to reconsiliation.

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