Neutrals?

[Fixerben]

Todays News Post:

Neutrals?
09 December, 2002


Lately we have all seen the neutrals in the media, complaining about how terrible things are for them. And normally I would agree, beeing neutral is tough, and staying out of a conflict because of your beliefs (and not cowardice) I can respect. Problem is, they don't stay out of the conflict. They just use their neutral status to hide from harm.

Since there have been many skirmishes and small battles lately I decided to go over my tactical maps to assess the situation, and just what do you think I discovered? "Neutral" mining controllers, with millitary class towers to defend them. When seeing this I have to ask myself the question, what kind of neutrals have millitary installations on foreign soil? In my eyes that is not neutral, but a new faction grasping for power. By doing this they have declared themselves a new faction in this conflict, and as such should be treated as one.

Although I do not always agree on the extremist ways of the Sentinels, I do feel the "neutrals" have no reason to complain about the latest development in Tir. In fact I think they should be happy they are free to come and go as they like in other places, both clan and Omni-Tek cities. After all as a clan-member I am not welcome in Omni-Tek controlled areas, especially not with fights breaking out over mining rights. In fact I think it will only be a matter of time before all guards, clan and Omni-Tek, will be told to keep "neutrals" out.

I guess what I'm trying to tell the "neutrals" here is to grow up and make a choice. Either apologise and get out of the conflict (the only way you can stay truly neutral), or have the guts to say that you are not neutral but yet another faction in this war.

Caryn Chini Sherill
President of Regulators

[AiymaNeut]

/me looks around, waiting for a member of the Desert Winds to walk in and tear this one to shreds...

[Fixerben]

Oh boy, do I have quite a few things to say about this one. You need to understand that not all Neutrals are Neutral. Some merely do not agree with either Clan or Omni. So what was left for them to choose? Neutral. Many neutral guilds have their own agendas. Take "Desert Winds" for example.

They hold an area near the lake west of Newland. Not for mining, but for scientific study. They have their own unique views, and do not claim any certain side. They are their own faction. Not all Neutrals claim to be simply Neutral.

I was recently enlightened to this fact by an attractive young Neutral *wink*. Up until the other night, I thought the same as you do. But you have to realize they all have their own goals.

Also, The neutrals are not the only ones complaining about the guards. The Clanners feel they are opressive as well. Maybe you dont. But some do...I being one of them. They dont let my friends come to Tir, and that saddens me. As it does many others with Neutral friends.

[Vixentrox]

As soon as the Neutrals ATTACK either the Clan or Omni...they loose thier neutrality. Unfortunatly it seems the neutrals have lost their moral shield and have taken up the mantle of a faction. Elite Operations is case in point. They have staged many attacks on Clan mines. Provoked or not...as soon as they began their attacks...they began dragging the rest of the Neutrals down with them. Very difficult to find a Clan leader willing to stand up for neutral rights when the neutrals are attacking Clan bases. As one leader said, "Guess the Neutrals are finally showing themselves to be the Omni employees Boss Ross always claimed them to be." I implore the neutrals who wish to maintian neutral to police your own agressive guilds for they most certainly are not behaving in a manner fitting of the Neutral title.

[Fixerben]

Vix please refer to my previous post. Many neutral guilds have their own agenda that does not agree with Omni or Clan.

Now I will leave the rest of this to Desert Winds. They can defend themselves better than I can.

[AiymaNeut]

You're talking to the article's author, right?

/me tosses a bag of catnip at Benjacrat

Yes..."enlightened"...

On a more serious note, as has been consistently argued over thousands upon thousands of times, "neutral" in this case means neutral to the conflict between OTRK and the Clans. This does not preclude a neutral citizen or organization from having its own agenda - the Desert Winds' environmental agenda has nothing to do with the conflict itself, so long as that conflict doesn't harm the planet.

[Vixentrox]

As everyone knows, Whisper's Edge has always been a supporter of the neutrals right to live unmolested. Whisper's Edge has denounced the actions of the Sentinals for their barbaric behavior. I have publically defended the neutrals in front of other Clan leaders till I was blue in the face. Neutrals having their own agenda is fine and dandy, but when it comes to attacking my fellow Clan...it is a bitter pill for me to swallow.

I fear if the Neutrals continue with these attacks, the Clans WILL bind together and begin the destruction of every neutral mine they can find. Most leaders view the Neutral and Omni as a whole, rather than as specific guilds. A few agressive neutral guilds have essentially marked them all for destruction. This is why I IMPLORE the neutrals to police their own.

[Fixerben]

lol Alamexis, yes, I was talking to the articles author.

And she likes "Setting Sun Sake", and "leet snacks" (or just leets).

[______________Nelida]

What you don't apparently seem to understand is that ICC has deregulated mining and opened up mining locations for placement of LEGAL mining operations.

Nowhere in the ICC deregulation does it prohibiit Neutral, Clan, or Omni organizations from establishing said mines. Nor does it limit placement of mines to certain areas for certain peoples.

Hence I find it odd that you seem to object to Neutrals owning and operating mines. I also find it odd that you object to them protecting their mines from the hoards of criminal organizations that prefer to steal legally held land instead of finding an available site.

[______________Nelida]

no Omni vs. Clan vs. Neutral in these wars over notum mines.
Other than what each of you decide to make it that is.

I am Clan yet I object STRONGLY to being lumped in with the likes of some Clan guilds that attack without provocation to steal legally placed mining operations.

My advise is that unless you LIKE being stereotyped then you should NOT do it yourself. If a Neutral org attacks a Clan base it is NOT all neutrals attacking...it is that ONE org ONLY. How much simplier can this be?

The same is true if a Clan attacks a Neutral or Omni base...it is NOT all Clans that are doing it. And the same is true for Omni attacking Clans and Neutrals. Are most of you just daft? Or is this concept so difficult that it cannot be grasped?

Bottom line is that it is YOU that create the side vs. side battlefield. And it is YOU that can end it in the name of civilization. If you go on fighting faction vs. faction there is NONE to blame but yourselves.

[Fixerben]

Sad that we people that have created so much, still can not stop ourselves from destroying each other.

"They finally did it...YOU BASTARDS!!! YOU BLEW IT ALL UP!!!"
-Charlton Heston - Planet of the Apes

[Cemetarygate]

Benjacrat, I'm glad to see that someone other than myself can see that not all neutrals are neutral.

Some people do not agree with all clans or all Omni, but that doesn't mean their position should remain neutral. In fact, if they do not agree with either clan nor Omni-Tek they are indeed far from being neutral. Again, as we both can see.

There are many clan guilds that do not agree with each other. However, as clan, we are not forcing each other to join Omni-Tek. We each continue fighting Omni-Tek in what we feel is the best way, and continue to debate amongst ourselves with what is the best way. Or, many clan members simply ignore the clan versus clan debates and go about their daily lives.

So, how is a neutral person who does not support clan or Omni-Tek any different from yet another clan person who does not support every clan person or Omni-Tek?

[Vixentrox]

I agree with Nelida for the most part. However...it has been basically impossible to sort out who made the first agressive moves in every Clan guild vs Omni guild vs Neutral guild battle. I'll wager you can't find one person with an ACCURATE record of every battle, skirmish, and retalitory attack since the war kicked off. So...when in doubt, people are going to side with their own faction; that much is inevitable.

[Fixerben]

Well Cemetary, I have been speaking with many people of all factions for the last couple weeks. And the more I speak to them, the more the factional lines blur completely.

We have a very diverse set of people on Rubi-Ka. And people seem to want to shove them into 3 categories to make it easier to figure out which ones to hate.

Well its simply not that easy.

"However, as clan, we are not forcing each other to join Omni-Tek."

Very good point, and I would never force anyone to join any faction. Though it seems the author of todays news would. Why would you join something you dont agree with? It doesnt make sense...

"So, how is a neutral person who does not support clan or Omni-Tek any different from yet another clan person who does not support every clan person or Omni-Tek?"

And this just reitterates the blurs of the factional lines of late. Many people want the same things, but may be in a different faction. Or they can do something to help one another, and are in different factions. With these new Notum Wars it is no longer a factional matter.

Anyone can attack anyone. Thats the plain simple reason, right there. So now when you are being attacked by your "faction" who is your friend? Your enemy has now become your best friend. It has now come down to "My friends enemy is my friend" or however it goes. No one can ever remember...

But the point is that, now you can be attacked from either side. And when your "Faction" attacks you, you have become your "Factional" friends enemies. Which makes and Omni a Clan, any Clan an Omni, so on and so forth.

This is not about faction anymore. Its about who has the most Notum to mine...

[Fixerben]

Vix, there is a channel guild leaders have that tells, who initiated an attack and where and who they attacked. How can you not have an accurate account of who did what , and who started what as it pertains to attacking of mines? Just log the channel...

What you just said goes like this:
(this is totally made up)

Dec 9; Benjacrat has just initiated an attack on The Lame Omni Guild, at blah blah blah blah....

Dec 10;<member of The Lame Omni guild> has initiated attack on <whateverguildBenjacrat isin>, at blah blah blah blah...

Its abviously a retaliatory attack for the last attack I made on them. And even if it gets weeks apart, you can look back in the logs. That is wat Nelida's treaty organization is for. That is how one would keep track of greivances, by monitoring attacks, and logging them....

So if there is a doubt, you check a log and see who started the attack. The End, no more doubt. Computers dont lie...

[Vixentrox]

Unfortunatly....I am not on-world 24x7. Are you? Also, sometimes those "attacks" are nothing of the sort. It just happens to be someone stumbling around in a 5% zone too close to a tower who accidently return fire. Boglwe might be the only person on Rubi-ka who *might* have an accurate log of tower attacks. Of course those logs won't really show what's going on. You can still make attacks on another guilds' personnel defending a controller without triggering that "tower attacked" message.

[Fixerben]

yes Vix, and that is why the Treaty Org has a small grop that will monitor. I certainly could leave myself logged on all day. Infact I usually have one character or another logged on all day. And at night when I sleep... So to answer you, Yes, I am usually online 24/7. And I could certainly log the attacks. And if its a stray person wandering and returns fire then that greivance would be brought up to the people in the Coop, and if it was explained and found to be true then everything is kool and it was an accident. If it wasnt then some compensation is on order.

And as for the attacking persons not towers, then there are always screen shots.

[Jayde]

Often misunderstood and misrepresented, the place of Neutrals in today’s present situation seems to be an unsure one at best. Many questions have been raised regarding the motivation and intention of Neutrals and their actions over the passage of Rubi-Ka’s history.

The present situation of Tir, and arguments brought up by Caryn Chini Sherill are good examples of the current situation.

As someone who classifies himself as Neutral, I must say that things are never as simple as people seem to believe. The life of a Neutral is hard--we have no major financial or military backing, a lack of natural resources, and have to often share our cities with the very people who shun us. To believe that Neutrals withstand these downfalls without any good reason would be naïve… Unfortunately, I cannot give you a singular reason why Neutrals decide to stay out of the conflict, as it is a very personal and individual thing for each and every Neutral citizen. Some wish to simply be left alone to support their family, others simply do not believe in the conflict at all. Some wish to be traders, merchants, or hired guns, while others wish to be political negotiators working toward peace. There are many other reasons, and one must usually ask the person in question directly to completely understand their point of view.

At any rate, the topic of Notum Mining came up in President Chini’s article, and I must respond to this issue with much attention. In my opinion, this is a very misrepresented issue. Why is Notum mining associated with conflict in the mind of the Clans? Did not the Clans proclaim their intention to wrench Notum mining from the clutches of Omni-Tek years ago? Do they now simply want the same iron grip on it as Omni held before?

Now that the ICC has opened up Notum mining to all, why shouldn’t Neutrals be able to make a decent living for their families and communities? Many from both the Clans and Omni-Tek regularly use Neutral cities such as Newland and Borealis, yet their respective bureaucracies do not pay for the upkeep of those cities. I also would note that on Rimor, Neutrals have mostly mined in the lands of Newland Desert and Stret West Bank--Neutral territory.

It may be true that our mining posts are armed, but only to protect our livelihood and claim. Notum mining facilities are not ushers of war or aggression, and the weapons on those facilities are only used upon the attack of said facilities. While being Neutral may mean staying out of the conflict, if one brings the conflict to us, do not expect even a Neutral to be complacent. While I would prefer being able to build mining facilities without the use of heavy weapons, the harsh reality is that there exists far too many greedy people on Rubi-Ka for this to be practical. Certainly, it would be an act of Neutral aggression if a Neutral launched an unprovoked raid on an Omni or Clan facility, but I, personally, would never condone such an action, nor am I aware of such an action happening to date.

The associating with mining as an act of aggression seems like an odd assumption to make. While I may expect that stance from Omni-Tek, as they are losing something by the recent ICC mandate, it is a surprising reaction from the Clans, who have traditionally fought for the freedom of Rubi-Ka.

It becomes troubling to me, then, that the Clans--now under the influence of the Sentinals--seem to be becoming more like the organization they are allied against than they would like to believe. Let’s not forget that this war was mostly a war of ideology and freedom, not of greed.

Neutrals can co-exist with the factions rather practically, and have done so since the first ones appeared in 29250. Notum mining need not be viewed as an act of war, as the recent ICC declaration--which grants the Clans one of the key items they have always strived for--makes it perfectly legal for anyone to mine Notum: Clan, Omni, and Neutral alike.

As a Neutral, I sincerely hope that those on either side would come to a more informed understanding of what it is that we often stand for. Until then, we will be there…almost always willing to lend a helping hand.

Devin “Kojiyama” Augustyn
President, Shattered Dreams

[Vixentrox]

When a neutral guild takes over a Clan or Omni mine...that is an act of agression. Most Clan leaders had no objections to Neutrals staking a claim somwhere. The big problem came when Neutral guilds decided to TAKE land that was already claimed by a Clan guild. Now I am not ignorant and I know some Clan guilds were criminal and attacked Neutral holdings. I and many other clan leaders argued against such actions. Now having no formal record of who did what to who first, what are most Clan leaders to think when they see Neutral guilds attacking their Clan brethern? What would a neutral leader think? Or an Omni? That's right, in the absence of knowing for sure which playground bully started it you are going to support your friend, ie faction.

In reference to Benjacrat, can you produce such a log and screenshots? Becuase if not...I have made my case. No one knows for sure who bent who over the table first as it stands today.

In the future, if this cooperative is formed and I hope it is, perhaps a set of logs can be started. The problem remains that the existing grievances, real or imagined will still be there.

[Fixerben]

ahem...Jayde

"It becomes troubling to me, then, that the Clans--now under the influence of the Sentinals--seem to be becoming more like the organization they are allied against than they would like to believe. Let’s not forget that this war was mostly a war of ideology and freedom, not of greed. "

Where in the world do you get off saying I am like a Sentinel? We propose nonagression pacts so that "''''''*ALL*"'''''' factions may conduct mining operations free from harassment. Not just for the Clans. Have you not read anything about what we are trying to do? And if you havent, why do you speak about people which you do not know.

I hope you were not talking about any of the people that have been posting here.

Let me give you a perfect example. I am in no guild. I have no towers. There is no profit in this for me, yet I am still one of the loudest advocates of peace on this planet. How dare you accuse me of acting like a Sentinel, when I fight against them for the rights of ALL the people of Rubi-Ka.

Please if you were not referring to me, say so, otherwise you are sorely mistaken.