How much B&E needed for implant disassembly?

[Knightwulf]

Originally posted by Krabbus
that isn't a reversed work, and stripping doesn't have same skills as assembling.

What I'm saying is that a reversed work should also be consider as a tradeskill - that's it.

Justafixer: I'm pretty sure you need 4.75xQL in B&E, 4xQL in CP and 1xQL in NP.

Nor is stripping implants a reversed work.. If it were... The clusters would be salvaged... This is simply causing the clusters to deactivate without crashing the implant.

[Krabbus]

Originally posted by Knightwulf


Nor is stripping implants a reversed work.. If it were... The clusters would be salvaged... This is simply causing the clusters to deactivate without crashing the implant.

This discussing is pointless, another example. Do you agree that decoding is the reversed work of encoding? Do you really think you will get the same source if you decode an application? No, you won't, but you will get a source that is very equal to the original.

Same thing with the implants, you start with your base (the implant itself) and add some modifiers (the clusters). If you are going to reverse this you have to remove the clusters to get your implant back. The one you started the hole process with.

So in my eyes will this be considered as tradeskill work since it's doing the opposite of normal assembling. But if you don't agree it's fine, not going to repeat myself forever...

[Khaln]

Seems "trade skill" needs a definition here.

"Trade skill" does not appear in the dictionary (or at least, not the one I'm using here, www.dictionary.com ), so I'll break it down. "Trade skill" means having skill in trade. "Trade" is a word with a fairly long list of definitions and usage, but in this context it clearly means:

Trade n.
6. An occupation, especially one requiring skilled labor; craft: the building trades, including carpentry, masonry, plumbing, and electrical installation.

So "trade skill" is skill in an occupation requiring skilled labor. A trade skill process would be a process requiring skilled labor.

Implant disassembly requires skilled labor (B&E, CL, and NP from what I read in this thread).

Therefore, implant disassembly is a trade skill process.

[_____________Eidolus]

Implant disassembly isn't even DISASSEMBLY, if you want to be techincal about the wording, since the clusters are lost.

You are yanking out some of the electronics, for lack of a better term, so that new electronics can be installed. It's a jerry-rig process.

Taking a blowtorch to a piston rod to get the piston out of a car engine is hardly disassembling the engine. Implant "disassembly" is more akin to controlled breaking.

By the previous definition, hacking a Mausser or a Titan Message Container open is a tradeskill process, since it involves the use of skilled labor.

There's a significant difference between a locksmith and a burglar.

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with implant hacking being limited to fixers only. If you disagree, then I want every item in the game that does not read "Fixer" in the requirements section to be useable by Fixers, because that is exactly what is going on with implant disassembly clinics. For instance, Where is my balaclava? It has an Agent profession requirement, much like the disassembly clinic has a Fixer profession requirement, yet my Fixer can't wear one.

I fail to see why other professions should get a benefit from, or be able to use, an item intended by its requirements for Fixers when Fixers do not get benefits from, or the ability to use, items intended for other professions (e.g. balaclavas).

[Mercatura]

Right or wrong, "fixing" implant dissasembly to be a fixer only process would only hurt the playerbase as it is now.

A fair amount of that is due to shining B&E blocking SMG among other things.

[Krabbus]

so what you are saying is that tradeskills should be professionspecific, lets say only Engineers can make armor then, since they are best at it, and only fixers can strip implants. This would be fun...

I'm an Engineer, and if armorcreation would become engineer only I would also quit this game... But, I like the idea that make it easier for specific professions to do certain things.

Funcom will never make tradeskills professions only...

[Knightwulf]

Originally posted by Mercatura
Right or wrong, "fixing" implant dissasembly to be a fixer only process would only hurt the playerbase as it is now.

I don't see how it would hurt the playerbase at all.. After fourteen four, the world is overrun with PVPing, ninjaing, ph1xx0r twinks... You need that B&E to crack open every chest whilst the rest of the team is off fighting... Tracking down a Fixer/ph1xx0r is not a difficult task.

A fair amount of that is due to shining B&E blocking SMG among other things.

Not a big deal.. By the time we can afford to spend the insane amounts of IP required to raise our skill high enough to strip QL200's we can already self-equip QL200 implants.

My whole point to this is it was supposed to be Fixer-only... ..and it still is.. At least according to various Advisors, GM's and community reps I've spoken to... It simply has not been fixed.

[Knightwulf]

Originally posted by Krabbus
se what you are saying is that tradeskills should be professionspecific, lets say only Engineers can make armor then, since they are best at it, and only fixers can strip implants. This would be fun...

I'm an Engineer, and if armorcreation would become engineer only I would also quit this game... But, I'm I like the idea that make it easier for specific professions to do certain things.

Funcom will never make tradeskills professions only...

I still do not agree with you that this is a Tradeskill... Therefore, I am saying nothing of the sort.

[_________Neurofreeze]

Originally posted by Mercatura
Right or wrong, "fixing" implant dissasembly to be a fixer only process would only hurt the playerbase as it is now.

A fair amount of that is due to shining B&E blocking SMG among other things.

Why? Because Traders would actually have to ask someone else for a favor instead of everyone asking Traders for services?

Somehow I doubt making implant disassembly clinics Fixer-only would cause the playerbase much, if any, grief. We'll adjust. There's certainly many more Fixers than there are Traders, so finding a Fixer to do an implant disassembly would be easier than, say... finding a Trader to wrangle me into a new weapon. Those who have implant disassembly clinics (the ones who would be most affected by this change) and are not Fixers don't even have to find a Fixer with both the skill and equipment for the job, just the proper skill (since he can loan the Fixer his own clinic). Fixers will also adjust to the new conflicting cluster problem. Tradeskillers implant switch all the time to satisfy the needs of a customer, why wouldn't Fixers? I know I switch implants occasionally to get into a new weapon (my implants are geared towards my Grid Armor right now), so in battle I actually only have one SMG cluster.

As for the priority of things... Funcom states they have multiple teams working on multiple problems concurrently, which is why some seemingly insignificant bugs seem to be fixed sooner than some incredibly important bugs. I wouldn't assume that fixing something like this would divert resources to more important problems, so I don't think taking prioritizing unto ourselves has any relevence in these discussions.

[Krabbus]

if that ridiculous statement goes through, make armorcreation engineer only too then...

[________Miniexplicit]

Stripping IMPLANTS requires B&E and NP. Nothing else.

Hacking nearly anything ELSE requires B&E and Comp Lit... such as hacking the Portable Treatment clinic so you can get the Implant Disassembly Clinic made.

[_____________Eidolus]

Krabbus, if the ITEM that enables someone to strip implants has a profession requirement of Fixer to wear, why should it not be a Fixer-specific process?

Can I get a terrorist hoody to boost my aimed shot? No. Why? Because only Agents can use their item that requires the Agent profession.

Why should you be able to use the implant disassembly clinic when it has Fixer as a requirement?

I think we need to se if we can find the patch notes from when this was introduced, because I recall it saying that Fixers were going to be the ones stripping implants. As far as I can recall, it didn't read "A new item that will have a profession requirement of Fixer will enable anyone and everyone to remove clusters from implants. Screw you, Fixers!"

Also, as far as tradeskills go, Fixers don't really have the most ideal set for stripping implants, so your "best at it" argument is hogwash. Show me a class with green B&E and NP, and they'll be the "best" at it.

Once again, there is a significant difference between a locksmith, who can use tools to open a lock you have lost the key for in a legal fashion, and a burglar, who uses tools to get into places where he isn't supposed to be for illegal purposes.

The bottom line of your contention seems to be that you want to have it all. No class should be able to use their skills in a way that you cannot.

You want an NCU Hacker Interface, too?

Fixers should be the only ones stripping implants because that was what it seems we were TOLD was going to be the case.

Like many other things (clan org skill advantages, for example), it hasn't happened.

[Krabbus]

Originally posted by Eidolus
Krabbus, if the ITEM that enables someone to strip implants has a profession requirement of Fixer to wear, why should it not be a Fixer-specific process?

mmm, ok, all weaponcreation is engineer specific them, since it's an engineers work

[_____________Eidolus]

Can you show me any one piece of any weapon that has a requirement of Engineer to wear, wield or use, that goes into making any kit weapon in the game?

No, you can't, because no such item exists.

The implant disassembly clinic CLEARLY says Fixer in its requirements. Does it say engineer? No. Trader? No. Any other profession? No.

Enough with the pseudo-logic. The item used to strip implants has a Fixer requirement. No item used to build a weapon or armor has an engineer requirement. Show me one that does. Go ahead. I defy you to.

The issue is not about skill, it is about the item, and only the item. Without the clinic, stripping implants is not possible, no matter what skills you have trained, and no matter how you try to dress up the argument with nonsense about work.

[Krabbus]

Originally posted by Eidolus
The implant disassembly clinic CLEARLY says Fixer in its requirements. Does it say engineer? No. Trader? No. Any other profession? No.

Hmm, perhaps fixers should make this for their own?

Not a single tradeskill process in this game is profession specific, that's only for wear, you only need the skills.
What makes this game unqiue is the skills, and if everything is going towards selfonly, professiononly will this game be very boring...

[porter]

Maybe I should not touch a flammable subject like this especially from at work where I don't have the time to check some facts, but... Isn't the Disassembly Clinic supposed to have a wear requirement of Fixer? If that worked correctly only fixers could wear the item but other people could use the item to crack implants if they had the skills. Wearing the clinic is quite useful because of the boost in treatment (+20 at ql 200). In fact I seem to recall that recently I've had to remove the clinic from my wear window to inventory before I've been able to strip implants.

About the meaning of words... Well, I agree with some of the above posters that implant disassembly is a hacking process and not a trade skill as in building an item is. Regardless of that I can live with others maybe being able to clean implants as well. I'm more likely able to do it earlier being a fixer with nice B&E buffs.

[________________Wigz]

Stripping Implants should be Fixer only.
We are the B&E masters, and as such, we should be the only class able to do this process. Hacking is our skill, not building towers, guns, or armor. Breaking and Entry is not on the Tradeskill tab... its a process of stripping down something...
like say... Hmmm, car jacking... we use our smg to 'persuade' someone to get out of their car, we then drive their car to the garage.... we then get paid by an engineer or trader for bringing them the car....

or better yet.
'Hi bob!'
'Hey Jim!'
'Got new implants I see?'
'Yep, top of the line, still kinda hurts to move around but I'll get better'
'That's right you will....'
BLAM
'You'll get better at Reclaim... Now about those implants...'

[_____________Eidolus]

Without the help of an agent or fixer character it is impossible for other professions to have access to the item that makes it possible to strip implants.

A fixer can, with the expenditure of IP and/or implanting, make a clinic for him or herself.

Can you get the item on your own, Krabbus? Perhaps you should try it, without any outside help from another character, whether it's someone else's or your own.

Again, without the item, the process is not possible, tradeskill or otherwise.

Tradeskill processes in AO use items that have no profession requirements and are available either through regular vendors or by obtaining specific items through means available to all characters (e.g. killing mobs).

The same cannot be said for the implant disassembly tool.

To strip implants, having the skill gets you nowhere without the item. The item makes it possible.

I can't accrue any personal benefit from any item that has a different profession as a requirement. None. Neither should any one else be able to.

[Krabbus]

Originally posted by Eidolus
A fixer can, with the expenditure of IP and/or implanting, make a clinic for him or herself.

Can you get the item on your own, Krabbus? Perhaps you should try it, without any outside help from another character, whether it's someone else's or your own.

I know it's in fixer shop, if it's becoming fixer only I really hope the parts you need to make it will be nodrop... then I guess everyone will be happy

[Hamini]

Originally posted by Knightwulf
4.75 * QL of the implant in B&E
1.00 * QL of the implant in Nanoprogramming



(...and no offense to the rest of you strippers out there, but I'd REALLY like it if FC would fix the bug that allows other professions to do stripping. I've had it confirmed time and again that this is supposed to be a Fixer-only ability.)

#1 i dont agree with this

#2 its not suppose to be fixer only, the +20 trt bonus is suppose to be fixer only.