Reset all the land control areas

[Beartwo]

Originally posted by Coldstrike
Why should they reset it? Look at it this way: If your organization isn't powerful enough to take land from someone, then it is not powerful enough to keep land. While a reset might give you the chance of taking some land, if you weren't powerful enough to take it to begin with, then you are going to loose that piece of land within a few days anyway.

Coldstrike...pardon me but thats a load of.....errrrm....

The imbalance here is in the fact that the bases built on rollout in the US have become HUGE. They are full of towers and very well defended.
This takes time, time which the Europeans havent had.

I dont mind, Mayhem is strong enough to chase others off the block, but there is definately an imbalance created by the distribution problem.

With the current bugs( with winners creating new towers and having to defend them for two hours after creation...and the insane lag) its very hard for anyone to actually destroy a tower and then set up base there.

[Kuro]

Posted this elsewhere, but it's applicable here as well

This isn't UO, where houses are permanently placed unless the owner lapses. These are structures whose entire purpose is to be knocked down by someone else. You're over inflating the importance of 'landing a good spot'. The benefits of owning a controller don't increase with the longevity of it's existance. Nobody gets bonus points for how long their towers exist. No matter how firmly an organization fortifies their controller, someone will knock it down (if I was a FC employee, having a slightly evil mentality like I do, I would create an event if necessary to make sure nobody's controller became a 'permanent fixture').

To put it further in perspective, let's say distribution went off without a hitch and every store had their copies on release day. Does Funcom hold back activation of the game because Europe saw Nov 29th before the US? People in Europe would have a head start on the US players because of the International Date Line. So does Japan wait for Los Angeles to wake up, go to the store, and register? Setting up a tower is instantaneous, so whether days or hours anyone on the 'right' side of the Internation Date Line would have the same "advantage" you profess to exist.

Yes, this arguement I just presented is silly. I know that. I'm hoping it gives you some perspective on how silly the arguement is that US players have an advantage. You want to know what the "advantage" really is? For a week or two, people that have received their copies of the Notum Wars will have some bonus skills a little longer than people that did not. That's it. Everyone is getting the XP bonuses because of the existing controllers in game. So Clan LuckyOrg will have a week or two of a little extra HP or weapon skills or whatever they chose for their org contract. Unless somebody knocks down their controllers

[Beartwo]

My argument isnt about who gets what bonuses, I couldnt care less since I currently cannot play (moving apartments).

I did manage to praticipate in a few raids before I disconnected though. And with the size of the bases created on US release you need a LOT of people to take them down. Regardless of the crowd-control system we end up with bases so big that you end up lagging out of the game if you manage to create a force big enough to fight them.

In practice it means that bases created early, by a big guild are untouchable.

There's the imbalance...

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Beartwo
My argument isnt about who gets what bonuses, I couldnt care less since I currently cannot play (moving apartments).

I did manage to praticipate in a few raids before I disconnected though. And with the size of the bases created on US release you need a LOT of people to take them down. Regardless of the crowd-control system we end up with bases so big that you end up lagging out of the game if you manage to create a force big enough to fight them.

In practice it means that bases created early, by a big guild are untouchable.

There's the imbalance...

You cannot ask Funcom to reset the land control simply because...what? You think its too hard to take down a base?

Ooookay...How do you compensate the people that had already invested in Towers when you reset the land control? Reimburse people for the towers still standing? That would screw people that had their towers knocked down.

Dig through the server logs and reimburse according to them? Assuming the logs still exist since release, you're talking about a mountain of data to dig through probably. So those people can expect compensation sometime around Shadowlands.

Just say "Screw the US players! I feel I got screwed and I don't care what happens to them"? Word of advice: Change your name and move someplace really far away...like Antartica. You might escape the people that got their copies that'd be looking for your hide to tack on a wall.

Roll back the servers to the day after Thanksgiving from the backup tapes? See above but add every person in AO that gained a single XP point or earned 1 credit.

It can't be done and you know that. It;s pointless to even have the discussion. It'd be physically impossible to do it without Funcom having to fortify their offices and you having to join the Witness Protection Program for suggesting it. Only thing I can suggest for people that think it's impossible to take down a base from release day is this:

Try harder.

[ZoD]

hem...

Turin said we in France will get the game later because of translation...

i ordered it on november 23rd, a few days before official release

got it today, december 9th

nice isnt it?

[iloveposting]

Originally posted by Coldstrike
Why should they reset it? Look at it this way: If your organization isn't powerful enough to take land from someone, then it is not powerful enough to keep land. While a reset might give you the chance of taking some land, if you weren't powerful enough to take it to begin with, then you are going to loose that piece of land within a few days anyway.

Hold on a sec guys.

*Hit Cold around the face with a bat*

Let say this, ONE MORE TIME.

Some of us CANNOT even build towers because we dont have the game, everyone who does, gets nice advantages and head starts!

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Xzantrial



Hold on a sec guys.

*Hit Cold around the face with a bat*

Let say this, ONE MORE TIME.

Some of us CANNOT even build towers because we dont have the game, everyone who does, gets nice advantages and head starts!

What advantage? The one where you're facing a controller with defenses instead of an open plot of land? Because, AGAIN, everything else is imagined. Would you be here demanding the servers be reset if distribution had gone flawlessly but you still missed your chance at a good spot because of timezones? My bet is 'yes' but you'd be much easier to ignore as laughable.

Face it though, like I said to Beartwo it's impossible. Funcom can't even consider it and demanding that they do it on these forums is useless. Best case scenario, the board mods are reading this thread only for violations of social guidelines

[Drabin]

While I initially favored a reset of land awhile back, I disagree with it being done now. Here's why.

A lot of organizations have people in the org that have NW and secured bases for those that don't have NW in them. There are only a few orgs that have all french in them and even some of those orgs still have some people that have NW that secured bases for them. My org has many french people in it that have not yet been able to build. We secured a base, built massively on one site, and saved room for them to build when NW gets to them.

Secondly, there are areas that are not really wanted by some orgs that can be easily given to other orgs that ask politely if they are controlled by their side. No, people won't give up a 200 - 300 area and you shouldn't expect them to but there are plenty of other areas a bit lower that can be gotten. As for the high level areas (200 - 300) only the major orgs that have the amount of people and firepower can successfully hold those type of bases.

Thirdly, there are many areas that were disabled and reserved which will be open when NW gets out to the rest of the world. Not just a few areas but a lot of areas. Depending on which server you are on, the amount of areas enabled is more on Atlantean than it is for Rimor.

Lastly, just because your Country's distribution and marketing areas are not up to par doesn't give you a right to slam the U.S. for every mistake your country makes. I'm kind of tired of hearing how my country is the "bad guy" everytime we do something right.

[locomdenom]

FC could have easily put in NPC bases that needed to be destroyed to initially take the land.

And then you would have had no right to complain. At all.

Actually, what am I saying? You have no right to complain. At all.

If you can't take a base, you won't be able to hold it. Stop complaining.

[__________Specialone]

geez Dharin, you're getting crankier and crankier these days

go home and listen to some Ween

or

better yet




COME ON PILGRIM!!!!

[______________Thromp]

Sorry, not gunna happen, already been discussed and rejected in this thread

Originally posted by Cz


If we had done it before people bought the product; maybe.

Turning it off when people have paid, installed, and started to play; no.

Yes, I agree that it sucks big-time that some recieve it later than others, but we're not going to turn off the game-play people paid for, and are already using.

Something that pisses me off is that myth that US players got it before European ones. Distrabution in the US was actually WORSE off because of the Thanksgiving holliday. Almost nobody here got it on Thanksgiving or the day after or that weekend because shipping was non-existant or delayed. I didn't get it until a week after release and I was one of the lucky minority, most people in my area still don't have have it.

Anyway, you can still get a spot by wiping out an opposing base (which I have helped do and it was tons of fun and not all that hard) or snatch up a spot when they open more land controll areas. And if you ask nicely I bet a big guild would help you clear a spot. They do it all the time just for kicks and couldn't lay down their own controller because you can only have 1 of each QL. I'm sure they would be more than happy to let you put yours down and add to your sides xp bonus.

I guess I'm rambling on, but my point is, fair or not, it's not going to happen. Funcom has already stated that they will not take away what people have payed for so don't bother wasting your breath (or should i say keystrokes). End of discussion.

[__________AsclepIIus]

Originally posted by imhotep
Dear Funcom,

Due to poor distribution, and in the interest of fairness to all the player base in AO, i wish to petition for a complete reset of all the land Control fields somewhere round about end of january 2003, to allow all your international player base and orgs a fair crack at aquiring some of the land control slots currently being occupied by players/Orgs lucky enough to have got there NW copy before anyone else. i expect to get flamed stupidly by all the big orgs who are currently sitting on there prime spot, but I have broad shoulders and can bear the burden. you may think FC that this is a extreme solution, however your talking about a continent of players not just a few people playing catch up.

LAUGH /mock on "I didnt get NW fast enough so I want everyone who got NW before I did to have all their time and money wasted in the effort for getting Land." /mock off.

What a *****.

Imhotep is a baby. End of story. Get in a guild thats good, stop CRYING, destory some towers, wow there ya go, ya got your own space for towers!

[lizor]

Originally posted by Turin


First of all, they favor US more because it is a better market for PC games than almost any other region in the world. This isnt FC's fault. Its just simple marketing stratagy..

Secondly, I am in the US, and was told not to expect it before the 19'th of Dec. So we are getting the shaft hewre as well, just not as bad, as say, the people in France. ( French people can blame there stupid goverment though for that. requiring the manual to be all in french, so that FC has to specifically reproduce the product for that country )

Hell yah. I just got my copy today and I can't even read the box. A US store in SoCal. Its not spanish because I can read some spanish. I was really worried that the documentation would be in that same foreign language, but luckily it wasn't.

I agree that more areas are needed. We can spam the patch forum for more spots once the 14.9 forum gets opened up.

Here's my buck. I need my 98cents change now.

[Canto]

Originally posted by Cyronic
It's not that hard to take land, seriously. Ok, maybe at higher lvls it will be, but last night at around 4am in the morning (That's a bad Cyronic! get some sleep!) I was playing with my lvl 53 engi and we totally ahnilated an omni base with only 2 ppl: My engi and a lvl 50 fixer.

Very sporting of you to launch an attack when the least amount of people are on. I have noticed this "strategy" lately more and more. Just kind of surprised someone would be lame enough to brag about it. It is a game that people play, and the point is to FIGHT EACH OTHER over the towers, not to wait unit there is no defense and take what others spent game time and credits to acquire.

Can't wait to see any justifications for crap like this, i.e. :

"We aren't all in the same time zones, so don't dictate rules to those who play at different times than you."

"All is fair in war."

"If FC didn't want bases to be attackable at all hours they would have made it differently."

Simple answers:

It is kids, students and other nonworkers in the U.S. who stay up all night doing these attacks I'll wager, not people in odd time zones.

This is a game, not war. What you are doing is the equivalent of killing someone in PvP who is obviously afk, probably not griefing, but right on the line.

FC made a mistake, and will lose many of their most stable subscribers over this if it is not changed soon. You are taking advantage of a broken game element.

Grats on your "achievement."

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Sanskrit


Very sporting of you to launch an attack when the least amount of people are on. I have noticed this "strategy" lately more and more. Just kind of surprised someone would be lame enough to brag about it. It is a game that people play, and the point is to FIGHT EACH OTHER over the towers, not to wait unit there is no defense and take what others spent game time and credits to acquire.

Can't wait to see any justifications for crap like this, i.e. :

"We aren't all in the same time zones, so don't dictate rules to those who play at different times than you."

"All is fair in war."

"If FC didn't want bases to be attackable at all hours they would have made it differently."

Simple answers:

It is kids, students and other nonworkers in the U.S. who stay up all night doing these attacks I'll wager, not people in odd time zones.

This is a game, not war. What you are doing is the equivalent of killing someone in PvP who is obviously afk, probably not griefing, but right on the line.

FC made a mistake, and will lose many of their most stable subscribers over this if it is not changed soon. You are taking advantage of a broken game element.

Grats on your "achievement."

Generally the one who first occupies the battlefield awaiting the enemy is at ease. The one who comes later and rushes into battle is fatigued. Therefore those skilled in warfare move the enemy, and are not moved by the enemy.

Written over 2000 years ago by Sun Tzu. A lot of standing military doctrine involve planning the attack to commence just before dawn, when the majority of the enemy is sleeping and those that are awake have lower energy levels than normal (human nature).

Now from a game standpoint, whadya want? People to schedule their attacks and forward them to your PDA so you know when to show up on the battlefield?

Be glad Funcom foresaw the war of attrition and put in safeguards against it. Otherwise, really large orgs could simply attack your assets 24/7 until you eventually yielded the field.

If it weren't for the crowd control system, this would all be a highly interesting study in tactical thinking and education

[Jynne]

Well as it is now, Kuro, if you are in a small org a really large org could just rotate in 'fake attack forces' of volunteers to just hang around your base in 75% for a few hours, forcing your smaller guild to send all its online members to the base to watch. Rotate people in and out of the 'fake attack force' since you have the manpower to.

If you go away, they attack and kill a bunch of your towers, draining your cash even if you get back in time to save the controller.

If you don't go away, the members of your org have effectively been griefed out of several hours of playing time, or sleeping time, standing around waiting for the attack to start.

It's a powerful tactic - I know after a few days of this kind of thing I'd say screw it and type /tower terminate while targeting my controller - but it's also not very fun for the victim of it.

Maybe we should start quoting "The Art of Fun Gameplay" rather than "The Art of War" around here.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Jynne
Well as it is now, Kuro, if you are in a small org a really large org could just rotate in 'fake attack forces' of volunteers to just hang around your base in 75% for a few hours, forcing your smaller guild to send all its online members to the base to watch. Rotate people in and out of the 'fake attack force' since you have the manpower to.

If you go away, they attack and kill a bunch of your towers, draining your cash even if you get back in time to save the controller.

If you don't go away, the members of your org have effectively been griefed out of several hours of playing time, or sleeping time, standing around waiting for the attack to start.

It's a powerful tactic - I know after a few days of this kind of thing I'd say screw it and type /tower terminate while targeting my controller - but it's also not very fun for the victim of it.

Maybe we should start quoting "The Art of Fun Gameplay" rather than "The Art of War" around here.

Then type '/tower terminate', Jynne. Please. I'll give you a lolly if you do. Maybe that'll sweeten your disposition . Sarcasm doesn't work well with me, Jynne. Not targetted at me and targetting others obliquely through me. Only thing you've achieved thus far is convince me you're so intent on being so gawdaful miserable, you'd miss 'having Fun' around here if it were strapped to an aggro slayerdroid and turned loose in your apartment.

Is it fair that people can out wait the defenders? Maybe and maybe not. It's not fair only because there's no way for people to attempt to defend their towers 24/7 (aka allianced with others). And it's completely fair because an attacker shouldn't have to forward an attack schedule to your email, PDA, and snail mail address so you can defend what you bought. So there's a little sympathy from me on the subject... But not much.

[Jynne]

Kuroshio, why is it that you always reply defensively to people pointing out what are, essentially, fairly obvious flaws with the game's design - as if flaws in the game are a personal attack on you?

I understand you've been here a long time and you're grateful for what Funcom's given you. If they'd given something like that to me I'd be grateful for it too.

But you aren't Cz, unless you are the login for his play account or something You don't need to do his job. Unless you're him in disguise or something

Now that said, I'd like to be having fun... but I see a lot of ways in which "mass PvP" is being implemented that seem to me as having the effect of decreasing the potential for fun.

Most of these problems are the result of bad implementation of noble or at least reasonable ideas. But as you've said, intentions don't count, results do. And the results of things like crowd control, pvp bracketing, pvp damage and crit nerfing, self-onlyifying, level limitifying, campifying, and so forth... is to make the game less fun for more people.

The ideas have their places, but the way they are being put into the code isn't making the players happier, it is making them frustrated and disenchanted. And the signs of that are all over the message boards, including posts from myself.

[Canto]

Originally posted by Kuroshio


Written over 2000 years ago by Sun Tzu. A lot of standing military doctrine involve planning the attack to commence just before dawn, when the majority of the enemy is sleeping and those that are awake have lower energy levels than normal (human nature).

Now from a game standpoint, whadya want? People to schedule their attacks and forward them to your PDA so you know when to show up on the battlefield?

ROFLMAO, you think you're going to pull out the old cliched SunTzu on me and get away with it? Nooooooo.

An application of SunTzu to AO, similar to what you advocate, justifies:

1) Cheating, including exploits.
2) Cracks and pirating.
3) All forms of griefing.

Be careful what reasoning you rely on to justify your GAMEPLAY. You will end up with a new set of "ethics."

Now go back to your sophomore (high school, not even the most naive college student would quote Sun Tzu in such a superficial manner and in disregard of context) "World Cultures" class and finish your book report.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Jynne
Kuroshio, why is it that you always reply defensively to people pointing out what are, essentially, fairly obvious flaws with the game's design - as if flaws in the game are a personal attack on you?

I understand you've been here a long time and you're grateful for what Funcom's given you. If they'd given something like that to me I'd be grateful for it too.

But you aren't Cz, unless you are the login for his play account or something You don't need to do his job. Unless you're him in disguise or something

No, Cz is nicer than I am . As far as my replies go, it's nothing to do with being grateful for anything. I just detest people than complain incessantly about how everything in sucks. I've said many, many times I despise Verant on several levels. But when when they were hitched to the wagons and getting ready to be quartered over that whole player fiction ban, even I agreed they were well within their rights to do so. Took a few days of showers to get clean again, but they didn't deserve what they got.

Originally posted by Jynne
Now that said, I'd like to be having fun... but I see a lot of ways in which "mass PvP" is being implemented that seem to me as having the effect of decreasing the potential for fun.

Most of these problems are the result of bad implementation of noble or at least reasonable ideas. But as you've said, intentions don't count, results do. And the results of things like crowd control, pvp bracketing, pvp damage and crit nerfing, self-onlyifying, level limitifying, campifying, and so forth... is to make the game less fun for more people.

The ideas have their places, but the way they are being put into the code isn't making the players happier, it is making them frustrated and disenchanted. And the signs of that are all over the message boards, including posts from myself.

Jynne, I'd agree you have a valid point except for the fact only some people disagree with the implementation. The majority of the people issuing complaints don't get past...

Originally posted by XXXX
Get this **** of the server !! It doesnt work and its gay as hell!! Im tired of dying cause i cant run into or out of a ****ing zone that is full of ppl simply because im getting warped back to my previous possition. Get this crap off the game.

This is also known as the "This sucks! Fix it NOW, you nitwits!" poster. They're not really here to post anything beyond their complete disappointment with everything in Life. There are people who dig to find the smallest thing wrong with everything. And then use that to validate their life's existance.

And you've pegged yourself as one of them, in my book at least. If everything sucks soooooo bad, why are you taking the time to share how much everything sucks with everyone? You're not going to get me to commit suicide over how bad everything is. If anything, the world deserves the torture and mayhem I put it through for pissing me off . But what's your purpose? Misery loves company? Obviously words from someone who hadn't met me.

Geez... /me breaks his Rant button. But thanks Jynne. I feel soo much cleaner now