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Thread: Trader Debuff suggestion

  1. #1

    Trader Debuff suggestion

    Traders stacking debuffs to debuff....
    Reminds me of the cloaking device stacking, to use a higher ql cloak, which was nerfed.

    In my opinion, traders shouldnt be able to buff their nano skills with drains. Stacking drains by draining nano skill breaks Funcom's concept of not being able to self buff their best nanos. screw mochems, just double drain, and cast away.

    MP's should be the dominant Nano skill debuffer... whereas traders should be the dominant weapon skill debuffer. What other class can debuff weapon skills? none.... but the trader. That in itself should be powerful enough for single profession.

    If traders could only debuff weapon skills, that allows a share of players (NT's, MPs) to kill them in pvp. As it stands now, traders generally dominate every other profession.

    Traders are the only ones to self buff best weapons and best nanos. Take away the nano debuff aspects, which forces them to require a mochems to do the very best debuffs, also allows NR to work unmodified since the trader nano atk ratings will not be pumped to ridiculousness.

    The ultimate debuffing duo should be an MP and a trader... MP debuff nano skills, Trader debuffs Weapon skills. Maybe this'll be considered as balance. As of now, I wouldn't be surprised if everyone has a pvp trader as an alt or reroll. I know I do.


    Soloing PvM with a doc is tricky. Pvping with an engy is tricky. Playing a trader in both pvm and pvp is NOT tricky.
    Last edited by Bruteon; Dec 11th, 2002 at 00:37:26.

  2. #2
    Blah blah blah.

    Whiners.

    They're a very tricky profession to play and for that reason can be very powerful.

  3. #3
    Looks to me someone got owned.
    Gatorojo - Proud member of Apocalypse

    Power to the Atrox!

  4. #4
    Originally posted by Sheffy
    Blah blah blah.

    Whiners.

    They're a very tricky profession to play and for that reason can be very powerful.
    actually I found traders very easy to play

    only "tricky" part is needing more than one "main" hotkey bar for before and after buffing up (which is not all that tricky, just takes longer to put your chargers etc on 2 hotbars when you die... which is rarely when you can just mezz hee hee)
    I am Dnastyone Official Broom pusher for The Professionals
    Painmage my newest funnest guy
    PHEAR ME RK1 Yazule IMMMM BACK

    I would have to say that this is an typicall example of how an flame should not look like. You need to think things through and calm down before you try to write an flame... Im sorry but I would rate this flame with an 1. Aggression is to high, grammar and cursing isnt to well planned... Maybe he has an point somewhere in there but I dont even want to find it. - Centurion3

    ROFLOL

  5. #5

  6. #6
    The only fix I could see Funcom implementing is Divests and Plunders raising the Traders weapon/nano skills while lowering the target's AMS (attack).

    Traders would still 'pwn' weapon users in PvP but would be less powerful against casters.

  7. #7
    Okie... I'm a trader in profession and I think that plunder and divest should last as long as mochams .

    If u have played a trader at all, u will know that debuffs are a bi*ch to cast, not to mention the resist on them. Normally it would take a trader 4 debuffs to get complete drains to be able to do any good dmg and or cast other nanos. The cast and recharge time on them are insane, during which time u can be dead by the time they are done. Now, I also use an AC debuff, both of them, and I can tell u that the recharge on those are even worse.

    Traders are not given any weapon skill buffs, (eg. +80 to shotgun). We only have our divest and plunders... AND.. they only last for 3mins each. So... If there are no mobs for a lengthy period of time, we have to start the entire process again. In PVP you can forget debuffs... you'd be dead after your first divest/plunder, if it even sticks at all...

  8. #8
    Originally posted by toytd
    Okie... I'm a trader in profession and I think that plunder and divest should last as long as mochams .

    If u have played a trader at all, u will know that debuffs are a bi*ch to cast, not to mention the resist on them. Normally it would take a trader 4 debuffs to get complete drains to be able to do any good dmg and or cast other nanos. The cast and recharge time on them are insane, during which time u can be dead by the time they are done. Now, I also use an AC debuff, both of them, and I can tell u that the recharge on those are even worse.

    Traders are not given any weapon skill buffs, (eg. +80 to shotgun). We only have our divest and plunders... AND.. they only last for 3mins each. So... If there are no mobs for a lengthy period of time, we have to start the entire process again. In PVP you can forget debuffs... you'd be dead after your first divest/plunder, if it even sticks at all...
    I will admit that keeping your debuffs running on my trader is time consuming, but not nearly as time consuming as keeping rage and challenger running on an enforcer (can you say less than 30 second duration?).

    Your definition of "good damage" must be "better than anyone else" heheh.

    Traders can get higher AR than solja or enforcer, while nerfing whoever it is cast at (pvp, we all know mobs have infinite skill).

    Traders also have mez and root to make them superior in pvm

    yes, traders are #1 target in pvp... there is a reason for this

    *takes toytd aside*

    *wispers in his ear*

    Because they are uber!!!!!


    KOS list seems to me to be trader, doc, MP (nano shutdown), enforcer.

    bah, enough already... the list goes on and on. I would rather funcom beef up everyone else rather than nerf traders, but I have a hard time hearing traders talk how "not that good" they are, or how "hard" it is.

    *thinks about deleting his post*
    *naaaa, clicks submit reply*
    I am Dnastyone Official Broom pusher for The Professionals
    Painmage my newest funnest guy
    PHEAR ME RK1 Yazule IMMMM BACK

    I would have to say that this is an typicall example of how an flame should not look like. You need to think things through and calm down before you try to write an flame... Im sorry but I would rate this flame with an 1. Aggression is to high, grammar and cursing isnt to well planned... Maybe he has an point somewhere in there but I dont even want to find it. - Centurion3

    ROFLOL

  9. #9
    No wonder I'm the first one to drop in a fight... damn didn't know I was uber cause I never got a chance to be one No wonder I have no title on my head...

    Yes rage last for... umm.. by the time I run to the next room and wack the next mob...

    I have an enforcer too and yes I don't Solo in missions with him cause he'd die with a few adds, where my trader would live cause of the mezz and roots I have. But my enforcer is alot easier to play than any other profs I have experienced in a team mission. And I have Brutal Thug and I think Bone Crusher now? haven't played him for awhile since they changed the challenger line. And I got a 200 beam on ( Since Level 95 ) which almost crit as good my trader with all the drains on... So as I was saying, all the other profs. have weapon buffs of some sort to to get out of OE.. where traders need to do it during combat, and with the game it is now (not back in pre-14.x where u can get a UVC) it is tough getting the drains and even the mezz/roots for that matter cause the nano-resist is insane... I gotta drainup to cast my mezz/roots now btw, thanks to the current patches. There is not one mezz/root that will work without draining.. not like before, even a ql1 mezz would work on any ql mob...

    I don't PvP so can't really comment on an experienced PvPer with a twinked up Trader, but as far as the drains go, I have never had a chance to get my debuff stacks on before getting killed first. Anyone out there care to share any of these secrets?? I'd love to know and experience first hand how to kill that GA4 Fixer that always seem to be able to gank me before I even see the B*stard...

    For PvM I enjoy my Trader as much as my MA, that is a fact.. I wouldn't go in there alone with my enforcer

    - Don't worry what u write cause that's how we can see the story from all sides.. as I've just learned that I'm on a KOS list heh... gotta pump my concealment more

  10. #10
    its all good, when people think of the uber trader it is a 1 vs 1 situation (because they are kos in group and dont live long).

    and solo on my enforcer is fun... mongo is a heal after all, and evades buffs, enforcer is just as soloable as ma

    if all you do is team pvp my advice is stay as hidden as possible until combat is laggy... err out of control... err laggy... then pop in place and turn everyone into a level 1 gimp!
    I am Dnastyone Official Broom pusher for The Professionals
    Painmage my newest funnest guy
    PHEAR ME RK1 Yazule IMMMM BACK

    I would have to say that this is an typicall example of how an flame should not look like. You need to think things through and calm down before you try to write an flame... Im sorry but I would rate this flame with an 1. Aggression is to high, grammar and cursing isnt to well planned... Maybe he has an point somewhere in there but I dont even want to find it. - Centurion3

    ROFLOL

  11. #11
    Originally posted by Yazule


    I will admit that keeping your debuffs running on my trader is time consuming, but not nearly as time consuming as keeping rage and challenger running on an enforcer (can you say less than 30 second duration?).
    No offence but even at lvl 182 i have sometimes problems to keep up my Plunder, since you know how fast mobs die in missions, and sometimes it happens that you're reaching some mobs (for me those are mostly crats, which can be a pain to Plunder), beside depending on the situation I'm somewhat secondary or main healer in the group, and teamwrangeling and calming.

    Originally posted by Yazule


    Your definition of "good damage" must be "better than anyone else" heheh.
    I had a the damage programm running once and the enforcer outdamged me by far (I used an ithaca with a 11% crit scope and a GoC)

    Originally posted by Yazule


    Traders can get higher AR than solja or enforcer, while nerfing whoever it is cast at (pvp, we all know mobs have infinite skill)..
    how much attackrating do you have with challenger etc. running? If i remember correctly enforcers are able to get something like 1.4k, i get like 1,2k without wrangeling others and have 1086 or so while i wrangle others. Soldiers come (if they use the hellspinner) pretty close to our attackrating (think it's 1130 or something like that if i remember right)

    Originally posted by Yazule

    Traders also have mez and root to make them superior in pvm)..
    Depends on what you are doing Yazule, at Ace camp for example i can calm Quartius mobs, Tertius can be rooted ya, secundus (don't remember it right but i think they were also already unaffected by it) although somehow those snares stick on them

    Originally posted by Yazule

    yes, traders are #1 target in pvp... there is a reason for this

    *takes toytd aside*

    *wispers in his ear*

    Because they are uber!!!!!


    KOS list seems to me to be trader, doc, MP (nano shutdown), enforcer.

    bah, enough already... the list goes on and on. I would rather funcom beef up everyone else rather than nerf traders, but I have a hard time hearing traders talk how "not that good" they are, or how "hard" it is.

    *thinks about deleting his post*
    *naaaa, clicks submit reply*
    Depends, i think the NT took over our #1 spot in mass pvp, since i have to admit too that they are my first target for divests when i encounter them. Oh and i actually have a hard time of ppl telling me how easy it is to play my trader, i play a trader cause i like the abilites of the class in "most" PvM situations, it keeps me going and i have alot of options while I'm teaming, but then again, you decide for urself what playstile you like. I also heard alot of ppl telling me when they picked a trader...damn having to keep up drains really annoys me.
    I used to play a Ma in the min damage times and only got into pick up teams cause of my crit buffs, but i quitted playing my Ma simply later cause everyone was starting later a Ma and i like also the ability to be somewhat unique amongst the teams, since i rarely have another trader in the group.

    Btw this post doesn't mean that the average trader player has a higher IQ than the average, dunno...engineer player. it just shows that we have our difficulties in PvM, and nope, we don't have GM friends who boost our charachter to lvl 200, give us all the special and rare loot and go out and kill all in MMD or Tir Arena
    Last edited by Allexxeh; Dec 12th, 2002 at 16:43:29.
    Rawkster - 200 Agent
    Thorian - 200 Trader

  12. #12
    I can see the plunder problem, but if mobs are dying that fast no need to be more uber?

    What weapon was the enforcer using when he outdamaged you *curious* because there are rare weapons (EQB and EoT) that surly are the exception and not the rule which should make you correct.

    Yeah, my trader is not high enough to talk about AR, but I have to say that at 112 he can get higher AR than enforcers, I only extrapolated that to high levels, sorry if it is missinformation.

    Yes hunting outdoors has higher risks for everyone, but mongo (a main enforcer combat nano) will kill enforcers real quick with mobs around. All nano's are weaker in ability when you go outside (except mabey AE roots and snares). I never said traders were invincible in pvm (reserve that for GA4 LOL) just superior to enforcer in a solo mode from what I can see.

    Yes I said I didnt find playing trader hard, but I will say if I am going "for broke" I have to stack 3 nano's just to get the most skill from my transfers, I use the nano stealing lines, I use mezz, root, and RARELY ac debuffs. Yes there is a lot to do, but I find with my enforcer going "for broke" I end up hitting buttons more often (rage, challenger, mongo, FoB, brawl all have pretty short recycle times). I guess I should have said "no harder than most of the classes I play.

    Yes a lot of traders have so much going for them they take it for granted (and that is why enforcers are their nemisis, they are not trying the right things, or trying hard enough). NT is only on the top of the KOS list for smurfs, but I understand being a trader picking them first (I would probably go for a doc first myself, then NT, then meta... personal preference there though). All this "who is best" is ALL based on 1 vs 1 pvp, as in a group it is hard to make such distinctions (docs/healers have always been my #1 in all other games). Things turn fuzzy when your doc is actually casting CH because of the MP or the trader... who is having the best effect? I do know that Enforcer is high on the list, mainly because as we close for combat they would like to see us dead before ONE hit drops (yes, we are mean lean fighting machines).

    this is turning into a damn good thread!

    my suggestion is this if they are going to tinker with traders (read nerf)... if they are going to stop them from stacking debuffs then lower the NR on them. Though I still say I hate nerfs, I do see that the amount of work to beef up a group of classes is much greater than nerfing one
    I am Dnastyone Official Broom pusher for The Professionals
    Painmage my newest funnest guy
    PHEAR ME RK1 Yazule IMMMM BACK

    I would have to say that this is an typicall example of how an flame should not look like. You need to think things through and calm down before you try to write an flame... Im sorry but I would rate this flame with an 1. Aggression is to high, grammar and cursing isnt to well planned... Maybe he has an point somewhere in there but I dont even want to find it. - Centurion3

    ROFLOL

  13. #13
    Originally posted by toytd
    No wonder I'm the first one to drop in a fight... damn didn't know I was uber cause I never got a chance to be one No wonder I have no title on my head...

    all prof need some skill to pvp , but at least trader + skill = uber ma + SKILL still = GIMP
    Attention!!!
    Kill ma in pvp will not be looked as farming pvp title
    No dangerous, no exception gogogo

    crats what r u waiting for ?

    171 soldier
    200 ma
    174 NT ( leveling )
    83 doc
    ................

    I am in China now . no AO this month .......

  14. #14
    Well... Thats a pretty low nerf call if you ask me. The only item needed against drains is given to us.

    Drained by a mob in a mission? Kill it, sit down and use a virus scanner, up and go for the next Mob.
    Drained by a trader in mass PvP? Run back a few steps, and unless your up against a suicidal luny, you'll be using that virus scanner in seconds.
    Loosing against traders in 1vs1? Stop fighting traders in 1vs1... There IS other players that will kill traders 1vs1.

    Thank you Funcom for listening and introducing the virus scanner (Now could you extend it to dominate too?)

  15. #15
    Originally posted by Snublefot
    Thank you Funcom for listening and introducing the virus scanner (Now could you extend it to dominate too?)
    yeah, wtf??(not the new dungeon) why does that only work against drains and not against things like nano shutdown or crown of frost or any of the slows??

    grr.


    oh and btw to the original poster.. stfu.

    /me hates people that cry for nerfs of other people.
    --Rookie Teh "Wobble" Sux----------------------- AKA-----------------------Pirate "Ninjapirate" Dog--
    -+Legion+-
    WTB ATI T&L fix, h8 D3D.

  16. #16

    Re: Trader Debuff suggestion

    Originally posted by Bruteon
    Traders stacking debuffs to debuff....
    Reminds me of the cloaking device stacking, to use a higher ql cloak, which was nerfed.

    In my opinion, traders shouldnt be able to buff their nano skills with drains. Stacking drains by draining nano skill breaks Funcom's concept of not being able to self buff their best nanos. screw mochems, just double drain, and cast away.
    If so wave Bye Bye to 132 wrangles, not many 200 Nanomage Traders out there and dont think any traders will go to get mochams just to buff you nerf callers.

    Hope you enjoyed you trip to reclaim before posting this
    ********
    Neophyte Louie "Jankkar" Strikz - 167 Evil Trader
    ********

  17. #17
    Originally posted by toytd
    Okie... I'm a trader in profession and I think that plunder and divest should last as long as mochams .

    If u have played a trader at all, u will know that debuffs are a bi*ch to cast, not to mention the resist on them. Normally it would take a trader 4 debuffs to get complete drains to be able to do any good dmg and or cast other nanos. The cast and recharge time on them are insane, during which time u can be dead by the time they are done. Now, I also use an AC debuff, both of them, and I can tell u that the recharge on those are even worse.

    Traders are not given any weapon skill buffs, (eg. +80 to shotgun). We only have our divest and plunders... AND.. they only last for 3mins each. So... If there are no mobs for a lengthy period of time, we have to start the entire process again. In PVP you can forget debuffs... you'd be dead after your first divest/plunder, if it even sticks at all...
    OMG i agree, that would be heven.
    ********
    Neophyte Louie "Jankkar" Strikz - 167 Evil Trader
    ********

  18. #18
    Originally posted by Allexxeh
    I had a the damage programm running once and the enforcer outdamged me by far (I used an ithaca with a 11% crit scope and a GoC)
    Don't feel bad about that, enforcers outdamage everyone by a huge margin these days. EQB overkill!
    Seraphael - 200 fixer
    Pepzi - ** agent
    Troxitazz - retired trader

  19. #19
    Sorry to go against the words of the great yazule.. but MP's arnt one of the first to be KoS in mass pvp.
    a) theres only like, what, 12 of us left that activly pvp
    b) lol any 1 without maxed NR at the level you can cast NSD is gimped.. its near impossible to land a NSD on a target..

  20. #20
    All i have to say is traders are not nearly as powerful as everyone thinks they are. Yell nerf all you want the fact remains that 1/2 the profs when well prepared have a 50% or better chance of beating a trader in PvP.

    If you seriously think traders are way overpowered go make a trader twink level him to 150 and try some PvP action. Its not nearly as easy as you guys like to make it out to be.

    BTW my 175ish trader with 12 scope and ithaca gets consistently outdamaged by a similar level enforcer using a beam. 1 time i was with a 195+ enforcer and he outdamaged me by 50% with his beam.

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