Mega-warping mobs...

[Zoopeman]

So, at lvl 90, I'm aggro'd by a lvl 130'ish mob. Having invested quite a lot of ip in run speed and being fully buffed for running, I outrun him easily. One time. Two times. Three times. Four times. Five times. Six times. Trying to stick to level terrain, so he will not warp. But the slightest bump in the terrain is enough. Even when he's out of the map, he can still warp. He's hit me six times, and I've outrun him six times; two of those times all the way out of the map. The seventh time, he brings my health low enough that I loose run speed, but not much. I manage to outrun him one final time, frantically trying to stay in sight. However, his eyes are on his toes, and unless he can see my feet, he warps.. It's a hopeless contest. The next hit brings me within an inch of my life, I'm barely moving now.

I'm thinking how nice it would be to warp myself... When mobs flee from me, I have to alternate between attacking and running, but if I could warp, I'd be able to attack all the time! When the target is out of range, I warp, then I blast, then I warp...

Of course, that would eliminate the whole purpose of implementing flight in the mobs. Still, it doesn't seem fair... I want flight implemented in player characters! Now!

Here's an idea on how you can do it: Set an upper limit to how often (f.ex. 10 sec), how far (f.ex. 20 meter) and how many times (f.ex. 5) a mob can warp himself when in pursuit. The numbers I mention may be too high or too low. Play with them, or find another solution altogether, but do SOMETHING.

BTW: The ip in runspeed wasn't a total waste... I have to run all the way back from reclaim, and it's going to take a while. With less runspeed, I wouldn't even have bothered: I'd just've up and quit the game...

[Naraya]

Two words: **** WARPING.

Mobs should not be able to warp to you. If you run away from a mob, the mob should FOLLOW....not warp. Run up a hill, the mob should have to RUN UP THAT HILL ALSO....not warp. If you should put more than 3 of them playfield grid squares between you and the mob, the mob should give up following and WALK back to his spot...not warp. This whole thing of mobs being able to warp to you is bull**** because it makes rooting and snaring in the outdoors a complete ****ing waste: Ever see a rooted mob appear right next to you after your last shot breaks the root?

[Zoopeman]

No more warping would be really nice, yes. It's probably not going to happen anytime soon, though. Funcom's problem is pathing, and there are two solutions. The easy solution is warping. The hard solution is wastly improved AI. To get rid of warping, they would have to dedicate quite a lot of effort to that purpose, effort which they seem to believe is better spent elsewhere.

However, as long as they use warping to deal with the problem, the warping should be made to mimic a more realistic solution as closely as possible. To do that, they could add some limiting factors to the warping. Ideally, in my opinion, these 5 factors:

1. Maximum frequency of warping, linked to the run speed of the MOB.
2. Maximum distance of the warp, linked to the run speed of the MOB.
3. Maximum instances of warping, linked to the run speed of the MOB.
4. Pause after warp, linked to the run speed of the MOB.
5. Maximum height difference of the warp, linked to the adventuring skill of the MOB. In cases where this factor results in a significant shortening of length of the warp, realism _may_ require an increase in the frequency of warping.

This would still leave the problem of MOB's going through fences and walls like they weren't there, but they would not be able to warp great distances in an instant, warp significantly faster than they could run or warp up a hill significantly faster than they would be able to climb it.

If implementing these or similar limitations to the warping is too difficult, then warping is useless as a solution to the pathing problems, and there's no way around developing a better AI...

[Centurion3]

Couldnt agree more, but I dont think mobs are supposed to warp in the first place... could it be... a bug... maybe? nah...

[Zoopeman]

Actually, I don't think it's a bug. The pathing system for NPC's is lousy, and there is a great potential for exploiting situations where they get stuck. Ask any pet profession, and they'll tell you exactly how bad the pathing is. In fact, the pet professions would probably favour NPC warping inside missions as well...

On a bright note; I was chased straight through Andromeda today by a lvl 35 minibull. Eventually it killed itself on my damage shield =)

The stupid critter!

[Centurion3]

fix one lousy code with another lousy code...

[freejack13]

They need to hire us, appearently the idea people they have now need to be fired.

Alright that said...

I was in a team mission the other day with a couple of friends, health was getting a little low so I go back downstairs. Appearently the boss didn't care about the 3 other people still beating on him upstairs so he warps me back - from downstairs, through the floor, to finish me off. :/

Warping sucks, take it out or let us players warp around the world too.

Hatchet

[Zoopeman]

Heh...

There are two types of warping; MOB's warping to you, and MOB's warping you to them. The first is a recognized flaw in that it's used as an ad hoc fix to a problem. The latter seems entirely intended; it fixes no problems and serves no purpose other than making escape impossible. Apparently, they think this will improve gameplay...

One of FC's developers comment on warping (or "summoning" as he "prefers to call it", indicating he's thinking about the latter form of warping) in this article:
http://www.anarchy-online.com/conten.../articles/4741

I seem to remember another official comment from FC where they extol the virtues of "summoning" even more enthusiastically. I'm unable to locate it, though.

[Centurion3]

I have no problem with mobs warping you to them, keeps you on your toes i'll have to say... but the mob warping to you is just so god damn (!%#=%(=%#!

[Zoopeman]

Personally I'm no great fan of summoning, but I can accept it as a feature of life on Rubi-Ka. Some boss NPC's can summon. I think that in order for it to become an integrated part of the game world, it should be made available to players as well; particularly as flight behaviour is being implemented in NPC's. However, this is another debate: Summoning is an intended feature of gameplay, and therefore a matter of content.

MOB's warping to the player, on the other hand, seems to be a substitute for a lacking feature of the game mechanics, and therefore a matter of a technical implementation adversly affecting the content. It defies the logic of the game: Why should the MOB be able to instantly find and catch a player once he's out of sight, but not stand a chance as long as the player stays in sight? Why should a MOB be able to close a distance faster when it's a vertical climb or blocked by a fence? Also, it highlights the fact that line of sight in the game is between the characters feet: If the MOB's toes can't see your heels, you're out of sight, and he warps to you.

Basically, what it comes down to is that it disrupts gameplay and prevents immersion (breaks the illusion). As design features in computer games go, these two are pretty high on the "don't" list...

*Edited to remove 1 grammatical error and make 3 statements somewhat clearer.

[__________DeathMetal]

Oh the irony! They have the mob warping down...why cant they copy that file to pets?? LOL

[Milina]

Originally posted by Death_Metal
Oh the irony! They have the mob warping down...why cant they copy that file to pets?? LOL

U can't be serious.. u expect FC to ungimp petclasses like that.

[xyberviri]

bump warping mobs suck. they did it to prevent people from using the terrain to gain xp.

[Mercatura]

Mobs shouldn't warp you to them if you're standing less than 10 feet away blasting in their face.

Some of them love to do it repeatedly even when I'm standing on their friggin toes, and each warp is like a mini zoning (like using the boss button) with the extra lag and potential for LD.

Not to mention each warp breaks your attack, halts your pet commands and completely drops any charmed pets.

[______________Vasion]

I get sick of tryin to get away from a mob thats snared or that I'm just plain faster than and he gets warped to me, not me to him. Fully buffed I think I have around 1200 runspeed. My best snare is over -1k runspeed BTW. This doesnt add up. If it does ya need a different calculator.
I'm not sure if this is intended but it really blows. I want a nano that'll let me do this too.
Nano-Crystal: Uber F.C. MOB Cheating Tacitic
I feel my elbow starting to hurt. No wonder we're all in missions most of the game.

[______________Atreyu]

Perhaps a possible quick fix would be to warp the mob if you are in combat mode with it?

For example, you're flying along, the mob agroes on you, but you don't attack it, it will run its legs off trying to catch you but won't warp.

Another Example, you're fighting a mob and decide to run, you keep the attack mode on, it warps behind you until you turn combat mode off.

The cheif limitation to this would be the direct damage nuker classes that don't have to engage combat mode when they cast nukes...but this could be fixed by having nukes automatically kick you into combat mode when they complete and deal damage. While a DOT caster would be able to dot the mob and trail it arround for a while.

A Fix for the summoning trick could be that the MOB can't summon unless the character is capable of attacking the MOB. IE No summoning players in Yalms, who are unable to attack.

In either case the above suggestions should just be used to help with the warping problem, but the ultimate solution is improve pathing.

[______________Vasion]

There should be noooooo warping. It does nothing but cause the gameplay to blow. You should be able to run outa range of a mob and keep em away. If the mob has -100 runspeed he needs to move accross terrain at -100 runspeed, not warp up to you beat you down get left in the dust then warp up to you and beat you down again. Its a bunch of crap. I'll trade my yalm to move like that, because apparently its just as fast!

[Naraya]

I'll say it again....

**** WARPING!

[xyberviri]

warping sucks