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Thread: New plot twist, NOT a'okay...

  1. #61
    The post by Sxin was interesting you should be proud of your ccountry, but this is true of all countries. To state what one country has achived is pointless. On a scale of counting from when time began America has done little due to the time it has been around compared to the Romans or Greeks or chinesse.

    Many people spoke of america waking up to world events, to in a sense be shaking into the world in which many of people live. From some of the posts here I can see that is true. You have now seen the horror which happens in some countries day after day.

    You think this is different, perhaps yes for america it is but dont forget this is the first attack you have suffered on your own soil by another power except pearl harbor. For most of the rest of the world this is not true, most of europe has suffered countless wars and has suffered two World Wars in which the suffering was so great we even now cannot come to terms with it. Whole countries in east europe have been ripped apart, villages, towns and citys just wipped of the map with countless loss of life.

    I am sure during these times people had the same recations you do now. Describing this as the end of the world but of course they where not but they where world changing events. In any case only history will judge, what is important is not the war on terror but what america's role will be in the world now.

    You have to hope that countries will put aside there own countries interests in favour of world interests. Millions die in africa ech year, perhaps if countries reacted to this the way they did after the events in america we could have saved more lives.

    What is the point in sending a man to the moon when we cannot even feed half the worlds population. The events in america should be remeber not just for the lose of life in one single event, but for the countless lives that are lost each day due to war, acts or terror and a simple lack of food.

    If the world is to change I hope it is for this reason.
    Last edited by Kirrana; Jan 20th, 2002 at 22:14:43.

  2. #62
    Originally posted by Tappert
    Yes, we all acknowledge that other countries have had their share of terrorism. But have you said to yourself "this is different. This is too close. The time is not right"?
    actually, kosovo; n. ire, spain & the israeli/palestina conflict is closer to home for me then the US mainland but that's not the point.. and when is the time right?

    anyway, i happened to be watching CNN/BBC-world at the time it happened and as i saw the events unfold believe me, i felt a lot more grief, emotions & utter disbelief then i ever had or will have about the balkans, middle east, .. but all of a sudden it seems like "Whoah the US is under attack, alert the whole world cause this just ain't right!!!! And if ur not with us, ur against us!!" - that's the thing that bothers me the most.. well that and all those ppl taking religion as a valid reason to make war when it's actually about wealth or lack off 99% of the time..

    so don't get me wrong, i really do have a deep respect for all the innocent ppl that have fallen but that doesn't mean put it in a box, bury it and forget about it.. that's not how it works or should work for that matter..
    Last edited by Orb!t; Jan 21st, 2002 at 10:10:26.

  3. #63
    The latter part of my post was taken from a Canadian artical about a decade ago. It was not my intention to boast or brag about the Americans achievments or thier good will. It was a well written artical.

    The U.S. has had terrioism in its mits for some time now. The Oklahoma bombing of a Fedral Building, The numerous School Shootings of recent past(and present). These are just two examples of recent acts of Terrorism within the U.S. acted out by its own citizenship. So to say that the U.S. is just waking up to the fact that there is world wide terrorism is ignorant at best..stupid at least.

    They have spent millions and billiions of dollars regardless of how in the cause against terrorism. The fact is this was no little terrorist attack. And to compare the attack on 9-11 to the thousands other terrorist attacks around the world can't be done. I have yet to see a terrorist attack that literally brought the world to almost if not complete stand still. This is not to say that this attack alone is the worst. Each and every act of terrorism is evil regardless of reason or the persons and places it happens at.

    The U.S. as it has proven time and time again will do what they always do Move on and make the world a better place regardless of the fact that there are ingrateful, ignorant, selfish individuals out there yelling and screaming hatered for them.

    I would like to buy the world a coke and live in harmony......
    Offer a flower to your enemy..
    If he refuses it, offer a hand
    If he refuses it, offer a bullet
    If he refuses it, give it to him anyways...

    Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us.

    Isn't it just a relief when you wake up in the morning and find you didnt wet the bed?!

    Beyond your perfection,
    beneath you and who you used to be
    awaits who I am.


    Excess Radio! Bringing you tunage 25/7!

  4. #64
    Lol, I'm an American. I'm critical of U.S. policy because I love my country. You "love it or leave it" people make me sick.

    BTW, it helps to show some maturity and inteligence when you call someone an immature idiot. The name-calling and putdowns do not help your case one bit.
    Last edited by MikeWeather; Jan 21st, 2002 at 01:09:11.

  5. #65
    Ming on the otherhand is obviously a child with nothing more than computer games on his mind. "This is exciting dewds!" is pretty ****ing immature if that's what comes out of your mouth when you saw the WTC towers on 9/11. If I was in your class I would have decked you with a fricking chair... repeatedly. I have no doubt the teacher wouldn't have stopped me either. Freedom of speech breeds many idiots out there. Double-edge sword I guess.
    Umm I never said that. You're misquoting me 100% That was someone else. So take your slanderous 3rd grade reading comprehension level and shove it up your pretentious ass.

    Don't ever misquote me, and expect to not hear about it.

    BTW I'd probably pick up a chair too. ooh that pisses me off.

    Edited my venom a tad out of general respect, but you've gotta be careful about quoting.
    Last edited by Ming; Jan 21st, 2002 at 01:32:45.

  6. #66
    Hey CaptFallout, did you know exciting isn't always good. I was going to do this in the original post but I bet you all didn't want to read it. Fear the Dictionary! Alright, i am pretty lose in my English, when I said excite, it wasn't:

    "This is exciting dewds!" is pretty ****ing immature if that's what comes out of your mouth when you saw the WTC towers on 9/11.

    I said:

    Personally when I saw those towers burning in my History class on TV I turned to my friends and said it was "exciting". I knew that the world around me was real and changing.

    Now correct me if I'm wrong, but the dictionary says (or mine at least):
    EXCITING (-in) adj. causing excitment or agitation; stirring, thrilling.

    I meant excited as my emotions were gathering together in a bundle, or stirring. When you get $1000 dollars you can be excited, or pleased, when the WTC was hit with airplanes, you can be excited, or awe-struck. My friends would have looked at me odd if I said awe-struck. Everyone in the room was saying words like "horrible" "awful". Fine, they described the situation, I didn't. I thought most people would have picked up from my wording that I wasn't glad it happened.
    Capt Fallout, did you ever study your vocabulary while you were in school? It might have prevented you from stupidly flaming a person for the wrong thing. Another thing I'm only 17, and the WTC affected my life in two ways:
    1) I found out the insurance agent of my workplace had an office in Tower 2.
    2)My stockholdings have, and still are taking a beating from the problems.

    As I write I keep going an re-reading your posts and you've got me! When I watch I TV show and its a repeat with the WTC towers in the background, I feel something. I'm not happy they are gone, I explained to all who heard me and they said it was the inappropriate use of "exciting." I'm bouncing back and forth while writing, but too bad Capt, I'm not one of the people who should be eliminated from Earth, I believe mostly everyone was exchanging ideas on this thread, but you come along and start to personally flame people directly? WTF, freedom of speech really is a double bladed sword, I mean it cut a perfectly civil argument into an insult thread. Were you neglected? Not enough hugs from Mom? Too many hugs from Dad? I must say Capt, do you still have more brain cells then friends?
    -- Falling never killed anyone, its always the landing.
    -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
    RK-1
    |OT|
    Telgi-61 Solitus Enforcer
    Gauf-31 Nanomage Doctor
    Saruzi- -=128=- Opifex Nano-Technician.
    Manstien-44 Solitus Soldier

  7. #67
    If you think of this game to be relevant to sept 11th or any other real life events, its you that is sick, your mind percieved it that way, not ours, yours.
    You think it means that, your mind, not ours.

  8. #68
    Ok... Here we go...

    All of you who ripped on the canadian news article for being innacurate. You are wasting space here. I doubt the editor reads these. I think that that makes you an idiot, but I am not sure.

    I dont complain about the story. Story is still great. Terrorism is still a part of war and war is still and always will be horrific. If you dont want to play a game that is centered around war... sorry, insensitive or no, you have to play a different game. AO is about a conflict and about killing and dying.


    P Ross' declaration of a "War on Terrorism" should have been worded differently for originalities sake.

    "We will erradicate Terrorism"
    "Terror will be destroyed"
    "We must root out and destroy evil"

    All of these have been used by several people, (Bush, Thatcher, Churchill) but none of them have appeared on the cover of at least 16 country's major newspapers.

    I think that when the phrase "War on terrorism" is read by millions if not billions of people on the same day, it should not be used in a game without an expected response.

    Peace Out,
    K

    By the way, all of you who belittle anyone else's grief should have your legs broken.
    Being a circus trainer has to be the best job in the world, until the bears figure out how to take off the muzzle.

  9. #69
    Originally posted by Kristi3

    All of you who ripped on the canadian news article for being innacurate. You are wasting space here. I doubt the editor reads these. I think that that makes you an idiot, but I am not sure.
    if u got eyes u could've seen i wrote "i know u didn't write this..." when i responded to the article. we responded to the poster of the article, not to the author of it.. i can put in some crappy article in here too i didn't write and get comments on it.. and the article os one example of how ignorant some ppl are from all over the world about so many things. besides not the replies but the poster was wasting space here by choosing someone else his words to try and make a point which doesn't really matter on this topic..

    i agree though FC should've picked more original words to go with the story.

  10. #70

    Post Cultures

    Let's get some facts clear here. Most of the prominent wars throughout the world have been due to the following things: Religion (stance and tolerance), Land, and Economic boosting. Wars are never good plain and simple. After reading so many of these posts I realize what I've learned socially travelling to many other lands abroad. People don't seem to understand one anothers cultures. As an American growing up in the South, when chinese exchange students would go to school to study, most students assumed they were arrogant and dismissed them. Only a few took the time to study up on their culture and even help them through the diversity they faced to *swap* to Americanism and get past the culture shock. Even the chinese family elders had difficulty understanding their own children after they swapped to Americanism because they kept to themselves and away from what was deemed *not right*.

    Do you think that America is the only country that doesn't study other peoples cultures? Well guess what - the answer to that is no. The American attitude and perspective in our own states has changed. All across the U.S. schools have an early push into World events and students are given written material on other cultures across the World. Written material is printed and found in abundance on Asian, European, and African society. What most of you fail to see or realize is that America is the *melting pot* of all cultures. There are more differences in America than in any other country. America has more freedom and independence than any other country. America if defeated by any power, would have more to lose than any other country. They would lose *hope* that people born in impoverished countries around the world feel, that are without freedom, without free will to accomplish the things they dream of, without aid and a shoulder to lean on, without unity and the premise of solidarity, that find a way to make it here and stay here. Those people you don't get to read about on this site.

    The people like my father who made his way painfully from Italy to build a life for himself here. People like my mother who left Germany after World War II to make a new life and find happiness in America. I was born an American but it took me years to realize why I'm proud of my Country and why I would never leave her. Even at 32 years of age, I still have so much to learn. The freedoms that America stand for help people to maintain an open mind and have the ability of free expression. Most of those battles don't occur with the World abroad. Those battles are fought in the courts here in the states when creative art and sculpture, written expression, family values, personal anonymity, are all twisted by small groups that want to change and conform them to their standards. Most of the times, these battles are won.

    To the people of other nations that laugh and mock the statements by Americans here ask yourself a few things. First, are you mature enough to understand your own thinking? Second, have you travelled to America for a length longer than 2 months? Third, do you have a completely *open* mind?

    Drabin
    105th Atrox NT
    President of R.O.M.E.
    Paris - 3 visits one month long each
    Berlin, Bonn, Frankfurt - 6 visits one month long each
    Rome - 1 visit one month long
    Tokyo - 2 visits 2 weeks each

  11. #71

    Unhappy

    I think this thread is getting way off topic here. The original post deserves some legitimate debate without name-calling and posturing.

    I think the issue is this, should Funcom discontinue their current story telling techniques to prevent any parallels to current events? Are people being far too sensitive to a computer game? Is it a legitimate concern that some people are being offended by the term “war on terrorism” being used in the game?

    I’ve seen similar conversations on other message boards on the Web about things like TV shows and films removing content like terrorist story lines and images of the World Trade Center. It’ll be very interesting to hear Funcom’s response to this.

  12. #72
    I agree with Lumoxx - geting back to the original post -

    When I was 10 rows away from George W. Bush in Orlando and he spoke of the "war on terrorism" I was proud to be a naturalized American citizen and proud of what we were doing to help rid all of us of these murderous scum. The world is a better place without them.

    When Ross spoke of his "war on terrorism" I was prioud to be Omni-Tek. When Radiman chimed in, I would have been proud of it even if I were Clan. After all, we are not in the Dust Brigade, and all the citizens of Rubi-ka, both OT and Clan will benefit from the destruction of terrorism.

    There may be similarities to real life, but AO is, of course, a fantasy game. We don't live in a world on the fringe of space, run by a corporation, running around killing evertything we see to get ahead and progress a little. It doesn't relate to real life. In the same way, the story is far more dissimilar than similar to current events.

    I like the story. I do not associate it with the WTC and Pentagon atrocities. I understand why some feel it is too similar but, in the end, it is a violent game with "anarchy" right in the title, so it would be unreasonable to not have violence or to not respond to it. I will gladly join the "war on terrorism." Either one. But I don't think I'll confuse the two.
    "Life is too short to drink bad ale."

  13. #73
    I doubt they will change their path, I didn't feel too comfortable with it at first, when Ross first stated, but I thought it'd cause some trouble. Eventualy throughout the Storyline someone might say, " This is Omni-Tek's/The Clan's finest hour." Will we have to have another thread arguing about a cliche too? I do doubt further infringments of Funcom upon the GW speeches.
    -- Falling never killed anyone, its always the landing.
    -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
    RK-1
    |OT|
    Telgi-61 Solitus Enforcer
    Gauf-31 Nanomage Doctor
    Saruzi- -=128=- Opifex Nano-Technician.
    Manstien-44 Solitus Soldier

  14. #74

    Angry *sigh*

    Terrorism has been around since we were hunter/gatherers. In the night, one tribe burns down the granary of another tribe. This is nothing new, and people acting like terrorism has not been going on ALL OVER THE WORLD, LONG BEFORE SEPTEMBER 11, 2001, make me sick. Please, take off your blinders, there's much more to see that way, and everything makes much more sense.

    Terrorism in the game world is a perfectly valid plot device, in my mind. There are always militants who take things into their own hands and perpetuate worse outrages than those of their enemy.(For example, in Real Life(tm): fanatic pro-lifers killing pro-choice doctors.)
    I can't see why it would be any different 20000 years in the future. Human nature is still human nature.

    If you don't like the plotline of AO, go play UO or Everquest. There is no plotline there. Personally, I like the thought of scripted events, a game world that moves forward, that I might even be able to influence. That's why I quit playing UO and started playing AO. I've been playing for a whole 3 days, and I love it. I'm never going back.

    So take your "it's tasteless, disrespectful to the victims, blah blah blah blah" crap elsewhere. I for one, don't care. I feel for the victims and their families, but I'm not going to act like ignoring something or not speaking of it will make it go away.

    If I was higher level I'd run right over to Sabulum and smash some OT policemen like a militant scumbag. It's just a game ... roleplay, enjoy yourself. If it happens to mirror the real world, at times, why not? The times and props may change, but the human condition remains the same.

    - Sllaagor (JubalHarshaw)

  15. #75
    Originally posted by CaptFallout

    Why?

    Because most people are ****ing idiots.
    That has gotta be one of the most intelligent things said in this discussion, people are ****ing idiots.
    Fatal Halcyon
    Amoth
    No guild, no longer playing until (if ever) things change for the good.

  16. #76
    Yes, please, end this rather silly discussion now.

    This thread has provided so much supidness, that other stupidnesses comes to the foot of this stupidness to worship it.



    To raise this discusion, about the resembelence of things happend in real life that awfull day is not a sensetive thing to do. Its an egocentric thing to do.

    And if I really have to explain why that is, then you are not only egocentric, but quite ignorant as well.

    Though i will do it anyway.

    AO has from the start has resembelence to whats happening all over the world, everywhere, and to what happeneds to us all. (yes, in Europe as well, for all those missguided people who think this is a "lets kick on US" post)
    Wars, killings executions, assasinations, bombings, terrorism, threats, murder and kidnapping. Thats real life for ya, and thats AO for ya. Now, no one complained, although many of us lives with things like this juust around the corner...That is untill, some missguided folks in US saw a resembelence in THIER life.

    Now, obviously these people (and this is NOT US people in general, since we seen quite a bunch cleaver US citizens here in this thread, that has the integrety, and abality, to recognice simple facts) didnt give a rats ass about the fact that the violence bore resembelence to others life, then it was all okay. Not much sensetivity around then... But NOW they complain, thus, they are not sensetive, they are ego-centric.

    Now, you have all the right in the world, to feel bad about this, but then I really would advice you to quite play the game. If, however, you raise the discusion here, I will use my right to freedom of speech, and explain why it is that you have a somewhat egocentric point of view.


    Finally, I DO feel VERY bad for people affected by this horrible tragedy (I have my self a freind that lived in US that died in the towers) but I do NOT feel bad about people playing a game, they think looks to much like reality.

    If you are playing a game in which there are violence, you should not complain when the violence looks like RL, cause all violence will always bear resembelence to the violence in RL


    And really finally: All kind of violence is allways wrong, and never should a society/civilasation, group of people sink so low, as to use violence.
    Father Chagidiel
    High priest in The Church of OmniTek

  17. #77

  18. #78

    Exclamation Violence ....

    Originally posted by Chagidiel

    And really finally: All kind of violence is allways wrong, and never should a society/civilasation, group of people sink so low, as to use violence.
    I'm sorry, I have to disagree. Violence is distasteful but sometimes necessary. Violence is also inherent in human beings, in any and all life. Without violence, of some sort, there is no change.

    It is violence when vegetables are uprooted so we can eat, just as it is when cows are killed for beef. Of course, many people would dismiss this, seeing as neither plants nor cows are human, but it is violence just the same.

    Life feeds on life. This is necessary. - Tool

    Is it wrong to use violence to protect myself, or my family?
    When it is a matter of "them or us?"

    Should I just lay down and die because "violence is wrong"? Sorry, the genes from my survivalist ancestors won't let me do that. Violence is a last resort, but sometimes it is the only answer.

    Sorry to start this thread back up but I had to comment ...

    Best regards, all!

    - Sllaagor
    Clan - Atrox Enforcer

  19. #79
    Film director extraordinairre RandaZ's Avatar
    Just thought I'd point out Sllaagor, that just because you use violence, it doesn't mean it stops being wrong. But like you said, we've come to accept this as being necessary at times... but that in no way makes it 'right'. Food for thought.... mmm... roasted leet tacos...


    Tap


    And the thread keeps rollin' and rollin'... Yes, I'm feeling evil today.
    Slotine Zembower
    R.U.R. Member (RK1)

    Tappert Solminski
    Tailor of Rome-Blue (RK1) [currently MIA]

  20. #80

    Exclamation Hmmm ....

    It's all about viewpoints, I suppose.

    (I don't "use" violence, other than as a last resort. )

    I disagree that violence is "wrong" no matter what. If I have to use violence to defend myself and/or the ones I love, is that still wrong? Wouldn't it be more wrong to let myself or my family suffer or perhaps even die?

    I guess it's all various shades of "wrong" ... but then so is most everything. In the above example, I suppose my resultant violence would be "wrong" to the person assaulting me and mine, but they were wrong to bring violence into the situation in the first place. Yes, two wrongs don't make a right ...

    I'm just saying the following:

    1. Violence IS human nature.
    2. There are some times when violence is regrettably necessary
    3. You may not start it, but you must be able to finish it.
    4. Ethical values are all about point-of-view.

    I just finished Orson Scott Card's "Ender Quartet" ... ah, the beautiful ethical issues! What great books!

    - Sllaagor
    Clan -

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