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Thread: The plot is a problem

  1. #61
    Ming I know you aren't trying to actually disprove the topic here with your comments, you're just ignoring what people are saying...

    War isn't the problem.

    The problem isn't using terrorism or bombings.

    The problem is Funcom writing the announcement and speeches to copy directly from current events.

  2. #62

    dont understand

    I dont see what the problem is. Do you people have so much trouble telling a game and real life apart ? Did only in the year 2001 did some people become so worried about taking the effects of real life into games or pictures.

    Hollywood did not seem to mind creating pictures around the IRA and actions in britian a war on terror what has been going on for years and has killed many more people. Do they mind films based on WWII which rewirtes large parts or history which are completely wrong no.

    I was as touched by the effects in america, as I was with any event where lives are lost. But does this mean we need to change what we are doing. Do we really have to bury our heads in the sand and rope of large sections just cause of this one event.

    No we learn to live with it, I know this sounds strange but you do. More people are killed each day in road accidents but do you expect films to not show car crashes.

    There are two films out now( american) which show events in others wars which are only a year or to ago. Dont you think they will cause pain to the people on the other side of that war but did that stop hollywood.

    I guess what we are trying to say is america has not be shy by taking events outside america and using them in films and games so are some of you not just operating double standards ?

  3. #63

    Re: dont understand

    Originally posted by Kirrana
    More people are killed each day in road accidents but do you expect films to not show car crashes.
    Actually it takes about 26-27 days for the U.S. traffic fatalities to catch up to September 11 .

    Americans do become morally indignant after significant wars, though, Kirrana. No choice but to wait it out.

    Revolutinary War-->Alien and Sedition Acts
    Civil War-->Anthony Comstock and his ilk
    WWI-->A. Mitchell Palmer and his raids
    WWII--> Sen. Joseph McCarthy and the look into "unAmerican" activities (unfortunately from my home state of WI)

  4. #64

    Re: Re: dont understand

    Originally posted by CompanyMan


    Actually it takes about 26-27 days for the U.S. traffic fatalities to catch up to September 11 .

    Americans do become morally indignant after significant wars, though, Kirrana. No choice but to wait it out.

    Revolutinary War-->Alien and Sedition Acts
    Civil War-->Anthony Comstock and his ilk
    WWI-->A. Mitchell Palmer and his raids
    WWII--> Sen. Joseph McCarthy and the look into "unAmerican" activities (unfortunately from my home state of WI)
    Yes. But what about around the entire world per day???? Doesn't just happen in America...
    "Maybe Funcom should move 1000 AO players into Clon****, lock down the zone and make dyeable armor to attract more players?"

    A DaoC player defending AO

  5. #65

    oshovah

    Ive red these posts, and thougth:
    I probably should post here too.

    Well, as many of you know, the character Oshovah (Which i play) is a terrorist in many ways. And in many ways also similar to Bin Ladin.
    But this is more of a coinscidence, because I didnt make him up this way, it was everything around him that did. And, when he fights and strives for his holy war, its a holy war for all of the planes of existence.

    And so far in the storyline, well... Im think its good, and I dont draw parallels with RL, since I can keep them apart. But I feel for those who died 9/11.

    Sencerely, Darksnake. Player of Oshovah

  6. #66
    This thread has brought out alot of interesting viewpoints and I'd like to kinda address some of them.

    Yes 9/11 was not the only terrorist attack in the world, but that does not diminish the impact (direct or indirect) on many of the AO players. Saying that other horrible things have happened so why are we so upset is nonsense. How many people died in various events is, while another sad fact, not revavant to this discussion. We can list the thousands of terrible events that have occured throughout history but for many of the AO players (the American community especially) this is the most recent and in many ways the most horrible as it affected many of us directly. To say that we shouldn't be so vocal because we weren't so vocal about other events is aslo ludicrous. Again this event has directly affected much of the AO community.

    It is not a case of distinguishing RL from the game. In RL we had firends and family murdered and a national landmark destroyed. No one was really hurt in game. In the game it simply serves as a reminder of those vicious murders while the emotional wounds of the attack are still sore.

    For those of you who criticize us for being so vocal I just have to ask why? Have you become so inured to terrorism and murder that you simply cant see how somone would be upset? Yes terrible things have hapopened in other countries and many people didn't speak out.

    I personally dont care one bit that Funcom takes stories and phrases from Rl (if indeed they did). History and RL is the basis for all games and stories in one form or another.

    And for those of you that seem to think that America had this comming, I just hope it doesn't take having a member of your family murdered by terrorists to make you change your callous viewpoints. I do not agree with everything my country has done but NOBODY ever deserves this. Its not a political issue, it is mass murder plain and simple.

  7. #67

    Thumbs up Good Point

    Good point Fako. Well said

  8. #68

    missing the point

    Fako your post worries me.

    How many people died in various events is, while another sad fact, not revavant to this discussion. We can list the thousands of terrible events that have occured throughout history but for many of the AO players (the American community especially) this is the most recent and in many ways the most horrible as it affected many of us directly.

    You really think that other people dieing in those terrorist outside america are somehow not revant enough to be included in this discussion ?

    This is the most horrible as it affected you directly and by that I guess you mean the american community.

    how do you think the rest of us feel about the statements you think the single act in america was horror try to imagine living in Ireland, Spain, Palestine, Israel etc where death, bombs, terrorist acts are a part of everyday life. America saw the massive horror many whole countries face on a daily basis that is still current.

    Wars are still going on in some countries even now does this mean we should have no war in AO. Would people have been so bothered if the events in america had not happened ? No i expect not this dispite the fact terrorist acts would still have gone on in other countries.

    I do feel for those lost in america, I also feel for those lost in Ireland, spain, england, Israel, Palestine and many of the african countries that have suffered so much more.

  9. #69

    Angry Who wrote this crap?

    I'm sorry, but I don't believe for one second that Funcom had this story in mind all long.
    The only reason the amnesty came about in the first place was to give everyone a shot at the story Dungeons.

    If they did plan this story, then they must be idiots of the highest caliber not to change it after 9/11, during a time when most companies where going the way of extreme caution and pulling every image of the WTC off of every movie and game out there.

    As for the people saying "stop being so sensitive about 9/11 and get on with life", tell me the branch of psychology you majored in before you say another word.

    There are people in this world that will not watch TV shows or movies that touch on subjects that remind them of painful times in their lives. Why should people who suffered though the events of 9/11 be any different? Especially when the events are so fresh in everyone’s minds. Buy a clue people, and while you are at it, buy a soul. You obviously are in need of one.

  10. #70
    Im sorry, I still get offended by people who deliberately compares President Bush, with the head of the very evil and no-morale corporation Omni-Tek, mr Philip Ross.

    I think that President Bush is a good president that does care about his job and the people of the world. I think most of the world agrees with my point of view there. Bush has dealt with the situation far better than anyone had hoped and more or less united most of the world.

    To say that Philip Ross is like him is plain wrong and should really offend every single patriotic american who cares about his country !!!

    I can only hope its because they havent understood whats going on really in AO...

  11. #71

    Sorry Kirrana

    In my previous post I was refering to the posts about car accident deaths and the burning of Rome and the like, not other terrorist acts, which I find equally horrific. It is not the amount of casualties that makes the event terrible but the very nature of the terrorist attacks. I guess I should have been more to the point on that, sorry for any misunderstanding.

    On a side note though I do not just mean the american community as a whole when I refered to being affected directly. One of my relatives was killed in the collapse of the WTC. He was a fireman trying to help the people inside the towers when they collapsed.

  12. #72
    I guess the point I was making is when are you going to stop drawing parallels? I fully acknowledge that the game plot is very similar to global events, but in many ways I think a lot of people are drawing in their own parallels. The story facts are, there was a terrorist bombing. As many have stated there have been a LOT of terrorist bombings. The statement of Phillip Ross regarding the war on terrorism has been echoed many times in RL, but yes it is similar to Bush's words. Yep. So... the choice is yours to make basically. You can assume the entire plot is centered around the 9/11 incident and be offended, or you can keep your suspension of disbelief and see what happens.

    I have a soul. I think all Americans lost a family member in that incident. I also think a lot of Americans could have given a rats ass about each other before that incident. In many ways it brought our nation closer together, a reminder that there is a world out there that doesn't necessarily want us to carry on with business as usual. This is a fact. Our way if life can NOT guaranteed by the constitution or anything else, but only in our resolve as a nation to stand together to defend those ideals. We've got men and women out there right now putting their lives on the line to make sure we continue to have the right to sit behind a computer and make posts rather than begging for food in the streets, or dying of disease and starvation, or living under tyranny. Need I go on?

    We could go way deeper into this thread, but many of us just want to play a game. I think it's good that we voice our opinions and I enjoy reading them, but don't come to this thread telling me I don't have a soul, or don't appreciate the lives lost in that incident, because that makes you an oppressor of thought. There are people all over the world playing this game with thier own views. You can't ram the American Dream down their throats and expect them to buy it. That is exactly what they hate about America. We don't own the patent on anti-terrorism. There are countries that have been plagued by terrorism on a daily basis. That's what many are saying. 9/11 happened and is tragic. They appreciate that I'm sure. They probably don't appreciate Americans implying that our loss was MORE tragic than their losses, however.

    And that brings me back to square one, which is war and terrorism are horrible, yet we play these games and watch these movies, and read these books, and take great pleasure from them. If you're so offended by them QUIT and become a peace zealot or something. I'm sorry but you can't have it both ways. Again and hopefully for the last time, I agree that the current plot hit a little close to home, but at least try to remember that this is a fictional parallel. You will eventually have to move on and accept whatever art follows reality.

  13. #73

    Re: dont understand

    Originally posted by Kirrana
    I dont see what the problem is. Do you people have so much trouble telling a game and real life apart ? Did only in the year 2001 did some people become so worried about taking the effects of real life into games or pictures.

    Hollywood did not seem to mind creating pictures around the IRA and actions in britian a war on terror what has been going on for years and has killed many more people. Do they mind films based on WWII which rewirtes large parts or history which are completely wrong no.
    What about the western in wich the "good" Americans kill the "bad" redmen, whose only fault whas to be born there and try to live hunting and farming?

    There are so many examples....


    Originally posted by FakoNamo
    This thread has brought out alot of interesting viewpoints and I'd like to kinda address some of them.

    ...

    ...And for those of you that seem to think that America had this comming, I just hope it doesn't take having a member of your family murdered by terrorists to make you change your callous viewpoints. I do not agree with everything my country has done but NOBODY ever deserves this. Its not a political issue, it is mass murder plain and simple.
    I've written something about this, but what you say is not what I meant.
    Nobody deserves a fate like that, but it has been a reaction to something that US started.
    Beside that, US decided to reply by killing some thousand of THEIR innocent ppl too.
    I can't see much difference in those two behaviours...

  14. #74
    Wow, this is almost as bad as a "discussion" about religion, sex, or politics. Hey, in a way, it is politics!

    Terrorism has been around since we were hunter/gatherers. In the night, one tribe burns down the granary of another tribe. This is nothing new, and people acting like terrorism has not been going on ALL OVER THE WORLD, LONG BEFORE SEPTEMBER 11, 2001, make me sick. Please, take off your blinders, there's much more to see that way, and everything makes much more sense.

    Terrorism in the game world is a perfectly valid plot device, in my mind. There are always militants who take things into their own hands and perpetuate worse outrages than those of their enemy.(For example, in Real Life(tm): fanatic pro-lifers killing pro-choice doctors.)
    I can't see why it would be any different 20000 years in the future. Human nature is still human nature.

    If you don't like the plotline of AO, go play UO or Everquest. There is no plotline there. Personally, I like the thought of scripted events, a game world that moves forward, that I might even be able to influence. That's why I quit playing UO and started playing AO. I've been playing for a whole 3 days, and I love it. I'm never going back.

    So take your "it's tasteless, disrespectful to the victims, blah blah blah blah" crap elsewhere. I for one, don't care. I feel for the victims and their families, but I'm not going to act like ignoring something or not speaking of it will make it go away.

    If I was higher level I'd run right over to Sabulum and smash some OT policemen like a militant scumbag. It's just a game ... roleplay, enjoy yourself. If it happens to mirror the real world, at times, why not? The times and props may change, but the human condition remains the same.


    - Sllaagor (JubalHarshaw)

  15. #75

    Re: Who wrote this crap?

    Originally posted by Croyd

    As for the people saying "stop being so sensitive about 9/11 and get on with life", tell me the branch of psychology you majored in before you say another word.

    There are people in this world that will not watch TV shows or movies that touch on subjects that remind them of painful times in their lives. Why should people who suffered though the events of 9/11 be any different? Especially when the events are so fresh in everyone’s minds. Buy a clue people, and while you are at it, buy a soul. You obviously are in need of one.
    You should buy a clue, sir. If something reminds you of painful times, avoid it. If you don't like how Funcom runs their game, stop paying them to play it.

    I have a clue, and a soul. When 4000 of my countrymen (and other good people from other countries) were killed, I cried. I'm not afraid to say it. But I'm a realist. Death is the one event (other than birth, which no one remembers) that everyone will experience. I'm sorry they were killed. But death is a reality, as is terrorism. I can't stop death by not talking about it, and I can't stop terrorism that way either. In fact, the "war on terrorism" will be about as effective in the long run as the "war on drugs" is. Futile. Kill one terrorist and four more pop up. Until the underlying reasons (many of them being economic) are addressed, it will continue.

    There's no safety this side of the grave.

    Psychology shows me that most people seem to believe that everyone should think the way they think. That's not reality. I am not offended by their parallels to Real Life(tm). If you are, don't play AO. I could care less if you do or you don't. And I care even less what you think about me.

    - JubalHarshaw (Sllaagor)

  16. #76
    Originally posted by Sllaagor

    So take your "it's tasteless, disrespectful to the victims, blah blah blah blah" crap elsewhere. I for one, don't care. I feel for the victims and their families, but I'm not going to act like ignoring something or not speaking of it will make it go away.
    Suppose Omni-Tek started death camps with gas chambers... is that inappropriate? Sure, genocide happens a lot in world history, but should it really be in a game? Obviously many people can and would be offended if FC started a plot development in which Omni embarked on a "Final Solution" to exterminate Clansmen.

    I think that the obviously tasteless plot suggested above demonstrates that there is a line that can be crossed, and most people will agree on that. So if its ok to be offended by the hypothetical above plot line, why can't someone be offended at the current plot content in light of recent world developments? Anyone who says "stop whining" is really saying "you are being too sensitive" (unless you honestly think that *any* content is fair game, in which you wouln't mind a plot that paralled the holocaust or other historical atrocities). And if you're saying someone is being too sensitive, then you probably need to become a little less self-absorbed and realize that there are other legitimate viewpoints besides your own.

    --Xente
    http://www.ao-meta.com

  17. #77
    First off - Omni are not "evil" but are the "good" guys (if a bit oppressive) and Philip Ross hasn't said an evil word that I've heard. The Clans are also "good guys" that are just a bit mislead. Dark Brigade is the terrorist organizaton.

    This is a fantasy story - a fictional account of a terrorist act on the fringes of the galaxy in a place where everybody kills things to advance, but death isn't permanent. It is a violent place. There is anarchy in some areas. It is -not- in any way related to RL events and the differences in the story liners far outweigh any similarities to the WTC atrocity. You could make a point that it mirrored the embassy bombing several years ago in Africa, but it didn't resemble the WTC very much IMO.

    Does the story relate to RL? Well, it has to enough to be recognizable and fun to play? The games combatants have been set up for a long time and if they game events parallel RL events, well, so what? Maybe someone had a loved one killed by a person with a baseball bat - should we not have enforcers? Maybe someone contracted anthrax - should we not have disease damage? Would it offend someone who's loved one was killed by a sniper to get PvP'd by an Agent?

    This is ludicrous. It's a game - if it bothers you then, for crying out loud, do something else.

    When Bush declared his "war on terrorism" I was proud to be an American. When Ross declared his "war on terrorism" I was proud to be Omni. Terrorists, RL or any portrayal of them in any media should have war declared on them. Those are the sides I chose. But the one has nothing - nothing - to do with the other.
    Last edited by Paldorr; Jan 23rd, 2002 at 22:25:55.
    "Life is too short to drink bad ale."

  18. #78

    Talking

    i really do not mind the plot, as long as there is a war and i have plenty of Omni to kill i am happy

  19. #79

    Unhappy Jeez...

    Originally posted by Xente


    Suppose Omni-Tek started death camps with gas chambers... is that inappropriate? Sure, genocide happens a lot in world history, but should it really be in a game? Obviously many people can and would be offended if FC started a plot development in which Omni embarked on a "Final Solution" to exterminate Clansmen.

    --Xente
    We must think we are damn important when a few thousand people die in an atrocity such as the WTC and we can compare it to near genocide, with millions of people killed. As soon as I started hearing Bin Laden jokes I figured "Okay, at least people aren't screaming about hearing his name anymore." But I guess talking about, or dealing with, terrorism in any way is just too much for some people. Here's some advice...Go have a drink, enjoy the fond memories of those you lost, and try to live your life without picking apart any person, or game environment, that involves this touchy subject. Thank you, come again.

  20. #80

    Smile Content bothers me not

    Originally posted by Xente

    Anyone who says "stop whining" is really saying "you are being too sensitive" (unless you honestly think that *any* content is fair game, in which you wouln't mind a plot that paralled the holocaust or other historical atrocities). And if you're saying someone is being too sensitive, then you probably need to become a little less self-absorbed and realize that there are other legitimate viewpoints besides your own.

    --Xente
    I honestly don't think I would have a problem with any content. There is worse content in history books and in Real Life(tm) everyday. This is a game where we go around killing creatures and people. If you're not offended by that to begin with, what else should really faze you?

    I suppose I am being a little self-absorbed, I am just tired of people thinking that by making a word, or certain subjects, or certain substances taboo that it will just "go away" and everything will be hunky-dory again.

    Bottom line, if someone doesn't like the plot of AO, complain to FC. We're paying customers. Just don't be surprised when they don't change it. At that point all you can do is vote with your feet, stop paying FC and, as Paldorr put it, "do something else."

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