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Thread: Notum Wars effects on the storyline

  1. #21
    Jesus Alamexis (hereinafter Ala) you are too legal about it. I wasnt asking for any OT info, just to help us word the Pact. Nothing Top Secret about it, the Pact is always to be made public so people can read it and understand it. So Ala, send me a tell ingame and we will get together on this.

    And this is for Nel:

    Well Nel, I can see your point. But I wasnt suggesting that the CoA govern everyone. We dont want that. If people agree to our system then thats great, they can join us. But we dont want to rule the world...

    And Nel in your cross-faction effort I would certainly be glad to aid you *PERSONAL STATEMENT NOT POLITICAL*. But since you dont want any "Agressive" orgs being founders I guess I cant participate...And you really shouldnt let your personal feelings interfere with your political standing. If you dont want someone to join, then give a good reason for it. I'm sure you can come up with more than personal feelings.

    As many others have you are dooming all members of the guilds you speak of to the same fate. That we will all be agressive, and not ever want peace...HELLO!!! Have you seen what I have been trying to accomplish? Or am I totall wasting my time here? The CoA is having problems with its structure. Just as the old US did. The old earth US had a very bloody Civil War. As I am sure your new org would have its problems, we are in the state you would be in in a couple months.

    Unless you have some type of foolproof plan, and you think you can create something that is so good no one will have a problem with it. Well, That simply wont happen. All governments go through their tumultous times. As we are having ours now, you must not be too quick to judge.

    And the CoA is beginning to enter a more political arena. We are not yet sure what this means. But we accept neutral support of the CoA. At the moment it would be very hard for us to get Omni support as most Omni see our troubles and would NOT join with us becuase of our past. But there is always room for change. I dont know how many clanners would be for joining with Omni. I am sure that if enough people in the CoA supported joining with Omni and we brought it to a vote, and a majority ruled for it no one could disagree.

    In a Republican form of government there is always room for change. That is if the members agree....

    And as to the name thing, I dont quite understand what it is with you and names...Please allow me to quote a rather famous man:

    "A rose by any other name, would still smell as sweet."
    -Shakespeare

    So lets not be petty about this. Its more important than little squabbles over naming and personal feelings about other people...

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  2. #22
    Hmmm...what's a "hey-zeus"?

    As for me being "too legal", such measures are necessary given what is being contemplated in this discussion, lest I be hauled off to some unknown locale for treason, never to be heard from again. Being as transparent and specific as possible is always in one's best interests.

    I never once intended for you to think I was accusing you of espionage - those statements were meant as a guarantee to any "higher authority" watching over our discussion, to reassure them that I'm not selling the corporation's secrets.

    For an OTRK perspective, one of the problems many have with the Council of Ares is derived from the name itself: "Ares" means "war". As such, few OTRK organizations and citizens are willing to accept recent peace initiatives as genuine.

    As for what you are trying to accomplish, again, from an OTRK perspective, your efforts at legitimizing the Council and reinforcing your true purpose have succeeded admirably - those who have followed the Council of Ares, from all factions, know that you are not seeking governance, and that your efforts at establishing peace are, to date, genuine.

  3. #23
    Well if the name is the big problem then let me give you something to think about...

    The Council of "Truth":

    How many times did they tell us they were going to do something, and then they did nothing. The Council of Truth was accused of connection to the Dust Brigade and then claims not to be. No one knows if that was the "Truth" or not...

    Many organizations have names that are absolutely non-sensical. And the name shows no intent, as people are so often fond of saying "Actions speak louder than words." And I am pretty sure the Council's actions have been speaking different than the word Ares would imply.

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  4. #24
    True indeed, Benjacrat. Although I was not a resident of Rubi-Ka in the initial Council of Truth days, based on my review of their actions, as well as my observations from September onward, there seemed to be very little "truth" in their actions. Testament to that is simply confirmed by realizing that, to date, we still don't have the feighntest idea why they abandoned Tir, let alone what they are doing now.

    With respect to my comment on the "Ares" issue, all I am doing is regurgitating popular opinion. Those of us with the intelligence (and the time) to read the statements of the Council of Ares since its revival are quite convinced of what you stand for.

    However, we are the minority. In order to truly gain widespread acceptance, you will ultimately have to convince the grass-roots citizenry - those who do not pay heed to words on a regular basis - of your goals and purposes.

    Their view of the Council of Ares can best be illustrated with another quote by the famous man referred to earlier:

    MacBeth, Act I, scene 5 - by William Shakespeare
    Your face, my thane, is as a book where men
    May read strange matters. To beguile the time,
    Look like the time; bear welcome in your eye,
    Your hand, your tongue: look like the innocent flower,
    But be the serpent under ’t...

  5. #25
    How very true that quote is. I can see that oppinion in many of the citizenry of Rubi-Ka. I hope and pray to change that.

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  6. #26

    Talking

    Perhaps rename it the Council of Alamexis so you can keep the same initials? Heheh!
    -Finalizer Vixentrox-
    Former President and Founder,
    -Whisper's Edge-
    Former Member of the Atlantean CoT Clerical Staff

    Socializer 73% Killer 53% Explorer 53% Achiever 20%

    Kissysuzuki -
    WTB small enough brain and lack of imagination to be able to sit and solo hecklers for 5 days straight.

  7. #27
    OMG Vix!!!! I knew you had a funny side in there somewhere I hope to hear things like that from you more often. And err umm...Fixerben wants to speak with you. I will have him send you a comm message.

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  8. #28
    I do have some humor in me although my life has been tragedy. If you look hard enough...you may find a glimmer of humor and a smile.
    -Finalizer Vixentrox-
    Former President and Founder,
    -Whisper's Edge-
    Former Member of the Atlantean CoT Clerical Staff

    Socializer 73% Killer 53% Explorer 53% Achiever 20%

    Kissysuzuki -
    WTB small enough brain and lack of imagination to be able to sit and solo hecklers for 5 days straight.

  9. #29
    I am sorry for anything that has happened to you in the past. I can only say that I can brighten up your future From now on I will make you smile once a day. I hope Fixerben doesnt get jealous

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  10. #30
    If you are really interested, Parts 1 & 2 of my autobiography are available on my clan's gridsite, in the Forums, Poetry & Prose section. It is entitled, The Blue Moon. I still have at least 4 or 5 more parts to go.
    Last edited by Vixentrox; Dec 6th, 2002 at 20:33:16.
    -Finalizer Vixentrox-
    Former President and Founder,
    -Whisper's Edge-
    Former Member of the Atlantean CoT Clerical Staff

    Socializer 73% Killer 53% Explorer 53% Achiever 20%

    Kissysuzuki -
    WTB small enough brain and lack of imagination to be able to sit and solo hecklers for 5 days straight.

  11. #31
    hmm...

    /me thinks that might be a little too much RP but he is interested in reading it anyways

    Gotta do it tonight though, I am at work This is gonna be fun heehee

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  12. #32

    Lightbulb What's the status of this "accord"?

    As I've already witnessed, the areas of land available for mining are shrinking, and I think the idea of a Rubi-Ka wide accordance for this is commendable. Here are a couple of my thoughts on it (and also, to get the thread a bit back on-topic).

    1. The idea of having all three sides of the conflict on this would be a requirement for it to have any meaning, but we would have to have some kind of backing from powerful forces. I mean, we could sit and make policy all night long, but there would have to be something to back it up should rogue individuals/groups decide not to play along. This would be a massive undertaking in the long run, and although I think it is quite possible, a lot of work on all sides would be required. People would need to be in this for the long haul and be willing to take the consequences with telling a world that this is the way things we'd like things to work.

    2. Along the lines of the limited supply, it is easy to guess that there are more guilds than there are mining locations. And, being the selling point of the expansion pack, everyone and their mother will want to own one or be a part of one. Plus, we must also consider that new people are joining the game all the time, and that we want them to have as much fun as possible. It striking yet another balance of keeping some sort of order, but making sure that everyone still has a good time and that they want to continue to come back. Here's my issue here. How would one decide who gets rights to what land? Right now, it's good enough to go with "whoever got there first" since there are still plots available all over. However, when these spots are all taken, the demand to set up rigs will not have decreased, but increased. I don't think that you can totally avoid the conflict of fighting over the sites in the long run, but maybe it can be governed a bit. For example, if one group wanted to take a spot from someone, it be brought before the group and oked. That way, it could truly be a fight to witness and the rules behind it would be a little more "refined" than just all out combat. No third-party stuff and all. Maybe I'm taking this too far, but I'm just spilling out what I think of.

    3. There will always be rogue elements involved. You can't help that, no matter how hard you try. How will these be dealt with? Will they be dealt with at all? Some people might think that we should provide the force to protect rightful owners, but I say that's part of the price of owning the land. I would rather see this group as administrators with the power to back up the word should need be, but not to the extent that they become rulers of it all. Hate to bring Star Wars into it all, but remember the Clone Wars were started to keep the peace and fight back the enemy but eventually became the enemy. Even if the source is a bit off, it is a good lesson to learn and a mistake to not follow.

    4. Finally, what is the status of all this? I've heard lots of proposals here, but no timetables, no key locations, nothing that sets things in motion. Until there is action and organization to this movement, it will remain the talk of message boards and won't see the light of day on Rubi-Ka. I would take steps here to do something now, but I have just myself, and represent no one. If that changes and nothing has yet happened here, I promise you will see a time and a place shortly following. I don't want to barge in on an idea that isn't mine, for credit is due to the others on this thread for keeping it going and refining it, but I would hate to see it die because people were too busy or afraid or just unsure to take that first step.

    I believe this is the right way to go. Maybe I'm off-key with everyone, but it all starts with that first step. Maybe you all disagree with the principles I've laid out, but I think that the important thing is that the meeting take place and that something, ANYTHING, is decided on a unified front. If all of us truly want peace, then this is a first and a huge step before the planet turns into an even bloodier civil war than before.

    Just my thoughts on all I've seen and read. You may now go about your business.

  13. #33

    Re: What's the status of this "accord"?

    All very good questions and points...and ones I've been thinking about in growing detail. I am getting ready to post my first 'cut' at this proposal ((although I've just been swamped with problems at work)).

    To try and answer some of your questions though:

    1. You are correct indeed. All three factions are necessary to make this work. And, for the purposes of land ownership, faction lines no longer become an issue for member orgs. Some of the largest guilds would have to join in to ultimatly make this work. But, in the initial stages it has the affect of at least knowing there is a list of orgs you will not attack and will not attack you. Knowing who your enemy is NOT is at least a start.

    2. Expansion first comes through claiming unused plots. This is obviously the least agressive manner in which to procure land. When this becomes unfeasable then the second approach is to claim retribution from the holdings of known Criminal Orgs...ie. orgs that have taken land illegally through the use of force without provocation. This Cooperative would keep a list of Criminal Orgs based upon the results of Grievance Hearings initiated by the plaintif organization. Restitution would then be exacted against said criminal orgs and the land freed distributed according to Cooperative decisions. The third method is to simple buy and sell property as you would any property...offer enough and an org might sell off one of its holdings.

    3. Rogue orgs, or criminal orgs, will have grievances filed against them. Should such grievances be upheld and no remuneration forthcoming then the Cooperative will add that org to the list of Criminal Orgs and they are open to attack by any participating org or orgs. In fact it is encouraged to exact restitution on such rogue orgs.

    4. The status is that we just started working on this idea in the last few days...so haven't got very far yet.

    Really this is nothing more than a more formal expansion of existing non-agression pacts that various orgs have started developing. It just encompasses a larger scope and formalizes it somewhat.

    Originally posted by Kyrstina
    As I've already witnessed, the areas of land available for mining are shrinking, and I think the idea of a Rubi-Ka wide accordance for this is commendable. Here are a couple of my thoughts on it (and also, to get the thread a bit back on-topic).

    1. The idea of having all three sides of the conflict on this would be a requirement for it to have any meaning, but we would have to have some kind of backing from powerful forces. I mean, we could sit and make policy all night long, but there would have to be something to back it up should rogue individuals/groups decide not to play along. This would be a massive undertaking in the long run, and although I think it is quite possible, a lot of work on all sides would be required. People would need to be in this for the long haul and be willing to take the consequences with telling a world that this is the way things we'd like things to work.

    2. Along the lines of the limited supply, it is easy to guess that there are more guilds than there are mining locations. And, being the selling point of the expansion pack, everyone and their mother will want to own one or be a part of one. Plus, we must also consider that new people are joining the game all the time, and that we want them to have as much fun as possible. It striking yet another balance of keeping some sort of order, but making sure that everyone still has a good time and that they want to continue to come back. Here's my issue here. How would one decide who gets rights to what land? Right now, it's good enough to go with "whoever got there first" since there are still plots available all over. However, when these spots are all taken, the demand to set up rigs will not have decreased, but increased. I don't think that you can totally avoid the conflict of fighting over the sites in the long run, but maybe it can be governed a bit. For example, if one group wanted to take a spot from someone, it be brought before the group and oked. That way, it could truly be a fight to witness and the rules behind it would be a little more "refined" than just all out combat. No third-party stuff and all. Maybe I'm taking this too far, but I'm just spilling out what I think of.

    3. There will always be rogue elements involved. You can't help that, no matter how hard you try. How will these be dealt with? Will they be dealt with at all? Some people might think that we should provide the force to protect rightful owners, but I say that's part of the price of owning the land. I would rather see this group as administrators with the power to back up the word should need be, but not to the extent that they become rulers of it all. Hate to bring Star Wars into it all, but remember the Clone Wars were started to keep the peace and fight back the enemy but eventually became the enemy. Even if the source is a bit off, it is a good lesson to learn and a mistake to not follow.

    4. Finally, what is the status of all this? I've heard lots of proposals here, but no timetables, no key locations, nothing that sets things in motion. Until there is action and organization to this movement, it will remain the talk of message boards and won't see the light of day on Rubi-Ka. I would take steps here to do something now, but I have just myself, and represent no one. If that changes and nothing has yet happened here, I promise you will see a time and a place shortly following. I don't want to barge in on an idea that isn't mine, for credit is due to the others on this thread for keeping it going and refining it, but I would hate to see it die because people were too busy or afraid or just unsure to take that first step.

    I believe this is the right way to go. Maybe I'm off-key with everyone, but it all starts with that first step. Maybe you all disagree with the principles I've laid out, but I think that the important thing is that the meeting take place and that something, ANYTHING, is decided on a unified front. If all of us truly want peace, then this is a first and a huge step before the planet turns into an even bloodier civil war than before.

    Just my thoughts on all I've seen and read. You may now go about your business.

  14. #34
    /me waits for someone to post here...

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

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