Doc speed debuff is way to overpowered!!! Docs in general are way to overpowered!!

[__________Mindswayer]

Originally posted by Scumbug



your idea doesnt solve anything.

so all a griefer has to do is shoot the doc once,
who was not previously involved in combat,
and the doc auto-aggros the griefer and
healing drops to 50%. changes nothing.

If damage is halved then healing must be halved as well.

I don't see how my idea changes nothing.

Soon as an offensive action is taken by the doc towards another player is Healing will be halved. Sitting and using a lab (which you can't do during a fight) will set healing back to normal until the next time the doc takes an offensive action towards another player.

I don't see your point about griefers. It's just not there. Griefer should be allowed to get cheap kills off all other professions while they are busy fighting mobs? But not the doc?

[_______________Garzu]

Remember to half the debuff of nt's debuff nuke.
Remember to half the Nullity sphere mk I and II, it's unbalancing that the nt take away 1000000000000000000 dmg during the time it last.
Remember to half the EAF and Fleeting Imunity.
Remember to make roots 400% posible for a resist.
Remember to make Jobe nano liberaries line and Humidity line only do half during PvP.
Remember.......................

Remember to half Doc hp buffs
Remember to half Iron Circle
Remember etc....

No, when dmg is 50% the only thing that needs 50% is healing, for everything else the rules are the same.

Ok, you hate nerfs... i do that also, but in this case it is needed, the 50% dmg, 100% heal and slow debuff nano is way overpowered. Or you can help me fight for 100% dmg again, that way nobody is nerfed but all of us get a boost

[_______________Fryli]

No i wont fight for 100% dmg, i see no point in being able to do 1 shot kills again. And nt's with rangedwpn are mean hitting while nukes are reloading. Being able to kill ppl in 1 sec again with 1 shot would make u hurt even more.
And yes, why should we not nerf all nt buffs if we nerf heals? after all heals is doc's only way of countering dmg. And u have ur buffs doing that. Nullity!!! heck u can tank 20 ppl and do ae while u do that, and thats not uber? taking away 100000000 dmg???

Heals need to be nerfed? lol, then all debuffs, shields and ac need to be nerfed too but that u don't get!
Nah, u only want to be able to nullity, root and cast izz last 1 :-)
Why have i heard NT's from day 1 of this game cry and whine?
Can't be becouse u suck, i see lots of u do fine in PvP.

Lol, yea i don't care if they nerf heals, hp and all doc buffs as long as they nerf everything else. Becouse ur not getting it! shields, ac, debuffs, nullity are way to strong after 1/2 dmg cap......if u say heals are.

And why the heck do u cry for doc's to be nerfed? MP's heal, Adv heal, Ma's heal, enf heal, traders heal. But ur to blind due to the fact that ur loosing to doc's that slowbuff u.

Bah, why don't u run when u see a doc then as i do when i see a Trader or a high lvl mp, i know they will debuff me back to my childhood and mother reclaim.

[____________Ejeckted]

Originally posted by EvilGlitch



I don't see how my idea changes nothing.

let me make this as clear as i can then.

1) doc and team are fighting mobs
2) doc is not on defence so his heals cast quicker
3) PKer sneaks up and shoots doc
4) doc auto-aggros instantly and loses 50% healing
5) team is now fighting mob/s doing 100% damage
(as well as the PKer) with only 50% healing ability.
6) team dies and loses a bunch of time and XP to griefer.

all you'd have to do to take out a whole team would be
to shoot the doc once while the team was fighting some
nasty red mob/s.

[__________Mindswayer]

Originally posted by Scumbug


let me make this as clear as i can then.

1) doc and team are fighting mobs
2) doc is not on defence so his heals cast quicker
3) PKer sneaks up and shoots doc
4) doc auto-aggros instantly and loses 50% healing
5) team is now fighting mob/s doing 100% damage
(as well as the PKer) with only 50% healing ability.
6) team dies and loses a bunch of time and XP to griefer.

all you'd have to do to take out a whole team would be
to shoot the doc once while the team was fighting some
nasty red mob/s.

Ok then let me make an amendment. All healing done to those in a fight against another player, will be done at 50%.

In your scenerio, only the doc would be getting healed for 50%.

[____________Ejeckted]

ok another scenerio

team is fighting mobs
soldier is tanking
soldier gets attacked my PKer mid-fight with a mob
soldier now has player on him doing 50% damage
AND mob doing 100% damage . .

. . but since PKer attacked soldier
doc can only heal soldier 50%
soldier dies not to PKer, but to mob
because docs 50% heals couldnt compete
with 100% of the mobs damage.

and what about AoE nukes?
that initiates attack with everyone.
so with one AoE everyone in the team
now has 50% heals even if they are
still fighting mobs.


it just doesnt work from a gameplay perspective
even i there werent (what i believe) serious coding problems
with reducing the way heals work.


you've got think like a griefer and ask 'how can this be exploited?'.

again,
i see no problem at all with doctors being hard to kill.
they are the single uber healing profession in the game.
it should take a couple or more same level players to kill one.
that's the docs advantage.. survivability over time.
but a couple soldiers with a trained alpha strike or
really any other combination of 2 or 3 players would
be able to kill him instantly before he has a chance to heal anyone.
any team that goes to fight another team and doesnt take out
the doc first deserves to lose.


for the record,
I am not a pro PvPer . . but if my omni trader encounters
a clanner in a 25% or mayhem zone i will
"protect my trade-routes"

In one encounter I took on a whole team (same level)
as they were traveling thru Perpetual Wastes.
I knew it was suicide but I was ready for a quick way home.
I targeted the doc first and killed him. solo.
in the middle of his team.

. . so it's not like it's impossible.

[_______________Garzu]

Being able to kill ppl in 1 sec again with 1 shot would make u hurt even more.

Im willing to pay that price for the ability tokill docs, cause now it is impossible with that slow nano and 100% heal. I say Docs cuase generally MAs and Advs sucks... they need a boost, i think something is wrong when they run around with Shotguns, but thats my opinion.

after all heals is doc's only way of countering dmg

That may be true, but alot of us others dont have healing at all, we need to do dmg, and when dmg is 50% and heal is 100%, it simply causes unbalance.

Heals need to be nerfed? lol, then all debuffs, shields and ac need to be nerfed too but that u don't get!

Why should everything be halved if heal is 50% when everything else isnt halved when dmg is 50%. Buffs are the same for everybody, we can all get buffs, not heals. Debuffs, why 50%? why must they be 50% if heals is 50%? Why doesnt 50% dmg qualify for this change? Anyway, i dont care if everything is 50% or if everything is 100%, balance is needed.

And why the heck do u cry for doc's to be nerfed? MP's heal, Adv heal, Ma's heal, enf heal, traders heal. But ur to blind due to the fact that ur loosing to doc's that slowbuff u.

Well, if heal goes 50% its for all profs, not only docs. And the problem is that the 100% heal, 50% dmg and slow debuff is way overpowered, cant take down a doc with that combo. MP is overpowered too compared to most profs, but we got otehr threads for that.

Bah, why don't u run when u see a doc then as i do when i see a Trader or a high lvl mp, i know they will debuff me back to my childhood and mother reclaim.

Well next time yoiu see that trader, and if yoiu see him first, slow debuff him, stack a few dots and then run.

[__________Daemonicus]

Originally posted by garpenlov

What's wrong with Doctors being on top? Who are you always looking for in a group? A doctor. Whose death ensures the rest of the team will follow that person to the reclaim? The doctor. And that's when the doctor is trying to keep you alive! Just imagine what happens when the doctor is trying to kill you.

And from a technical standpoint, isn't it going to be awfully difficult to tell when to half heals? I mean, maybe the check could be: If a player is recieving a heal, and the only thing attacking that player is another player, then the heal is halfed. Which means the doc just has to drag a gray along with him to keep him under attack from a mob to make his heals uncapped. If you do it any other way, then groups that get attacked while they're fighting mobs will be toast because suddenly : heals = half effectiveness, monster = full effectiveness.

Just because docs are viable in groups does not mean that they should lord over a combat feature of the game. Doctors/Healers are not combat gods. Nor should they be.

[__________Daemonicus]

Originally posted by Stitchings


Have you ever played a doc that high? Do you even know what you're talking about? Let me point out the fallacies in your arguments.

1) Alpha & Omega requires 874 BM. There is no doc under level 190 that can cast that without pillows or an MP. The casting time on this is also 12 seconds. With 1000 nano init I have not seen this experimentally go under 8 seconds. There is not a single combat situation I can think of, pvp or pvm, where I would ever use this nano. It also costs 1800 nano. Even if I were to cast it I could not use it more than twice before running completely out of nano.

2) QL 200 Vektors do not exist.

3) First Degree Burns is a joke at high levels. I can do maybe 100ish damage to someone per cast, while wasting nano that could be better spent on heals. Also, our dots are incapable of killing anyone by themselves. There needs to be more supplemental damage - and in significant quantity - if we want them to be effective.

4) Nano kits that give full restoration? Boy, I'd love some of those, tell me where to find them. If you mean nano chargers, they restore less than half my nano now and can't be used in combat. If you mean nano first aids, they give me back even less. Enough for three heals, no more. As for humidity extractor, ask any NT how much help it is with continual casting.

5) Complete Healing. Yes, I can do this. I can do this twice in a row. Then I have maybe 1000 nano left. It takes me at least eight seconds to cast/recover from the nano. During that time an opponent can easily get in three or four shots, bringing me back to the same level I was at beforehand.

Now, I'm not denying that docs are very strong in pvp - I've seen and done some as well. But no doc is going to be able to kill you if you don't stand and fight. We're quite easily rooted, and when rooted you can easily zone and restore while we're standing there unable to do more than first aid ourselves. Finally, I've never seen a situation where I've been in a one on one fight with anyone. It's usually several people on one person at the same time. In that case the doc advantage is pretty much negated, if three similarly leveled people are beating on him at the same time.

"In that case the doc advantage is pretty much negated, if three smilarly leveled people are beating on him at the same time".. Which proves my point. 3 people to kill a doc, which means in most PvP duels a doc will win.

1. Alpha & Omega used when the doc is at 50 HP.. TWICE thats 2 life bars. Tell me. If this doc has 4k-6k HP.. and 4k-6k CAPPED dmg is done to him through his nano armor.. TWICE he's still not dead. Sound balanced?

2. Want a bet?

3. "Our DoTs are unsignificant at killing anyone by themselves" oh so now you want DoTs to kill someone by themselves? Stand around when Agent DoTs do 4 dmg? Yet you want a doc that does a full HP bar. How balanced.. err... Obliterated.

4. Your first aide skill must suck. Max First aide.. implant it. Get doc buff.. get trade skill made nano kits. Just because you suck doesn't mean you can make an argument from it.

5. If any doc can get to low HP in 3-4 Shots they are completely GIMPED. What level are you?

[__________Daemonicus]

Originally posted by Esmee
Woo garzu looks like you're rivaling Agentofdeath for the title of most idiotic poster!
And while we're nerfing, halve all damage shields please. waaah i can't beat people that have them. sniff sniff
and please take away NT and meta debuffs since i can't beat them if they get a jump on me. boo hoo its not fair.

Ok take your vektor and your alpha & omega.. go to 2ho and do some spring cleaning.. but dont come here and whine. It just doesnt suit you

"Watch me wipe out 30 people at once then say im a balanced proffesion.. Not to mention.. im a healing proffesion"

[______________Swicky]

Umm im sorry Agentofdeath, im not understanding what u r trying to get it at...

Why would a doctor use alpha omega...when he is dueling?....its a team heal nano that takes 12sec to cast..plus the HUGE recharge time...

..There are no ql 200 vecktors...180 is the the highest..vektor dragon (or something like that)

Our dots alone will never kill a person...ie..by the time we can cast a dot that does "good" damage ..ie wrack & ruin 544 damage ( 15 ticks every 8 secs) stacked on..um lets say Sentient Nano Gorger 431 damage (15 ticks 6 secs) also they are halved in damage.. The people that are fighting will have quite a bit of hp..unless fighting a way way lower lvl...These two nanos way up there i say the doc has to be at least um 190ish self cast...lower with mochams and devoted implants. Heck yea i wish dots would kill people...esspecially for docs that dont use weapons or gimped ma docs.

Well the ql 125 first aid stims do not near do enough healing nor the resto stims....Yea like stitch said...if u find some of these let me know...I have almost 700 ish in First aid..resto stim or nano stims do not even fill my bars a quarter of the way...i think.

Complete heal...well lets say it uses way much nano..and takes a few secs to cast plus one heck of a recharge time. If the doc is fighting someone around his/her/its lvl when he/she/it can cast complete heal without help...then yes by the time the complete heal got off. The docs health would be around the same point where it started the heal.

A doc should be hard to kill...they are the best healers in the game.

I really like to see a doc against three other people...i dont think even with complete heal the doc would make it out alive. A doc can be beaten, anyone can be beaten..its just a matter of knowing how.. if u played a doc u would really really know our weakness.

Im sorry Agentofdeath I dont know what ur talking about..and i wish u had some "real" knowledge about what docs really are..im sorry if this insults u, but fact of the matter, i think ur post are just asking to be contradicted and proven wrong by ur lack of research on the subject. Also Stitch is one of the most respected docs on RK2...things like "Your first aide skill must suck" are quite a bit offensive.

Also one more thing, I remember a post on the doc boards..by a "someone" saying that docs job is only to heal... hmmm

If i get get flammed so be it, im tired of seeing post with no value in information.

swick out


swick out

[__________Stitchings]

Originally posted by Agentofdeath


"In that case the doc advantage is pretty much negated, if three smilarly leveled people are beating on him at the same time".. Which proves my point. 3 people to kill a doc, which means in most PvP duels a doc will win.

1. Alpha & Omega used when the doc is at 50 HP.. TWICE thats 2 life bars. Tell me. If this doc has 4k-6k HP.. and 4k-6k CAPPED dmg is done to him through his nano armor.. TWICE he's still not dead. Sound balanced?

2. Want a bet?

3. "Our DoTs are unsignificant at killing anyone by themselves" oh so now you want DoTs to kill someone by themselves? Stand around when Agent DoTs do 4 dmg? Yet you want a doc that does a full HP bar. How balanced.. err... Obliterated.

4. Your first aide skill must suck. Max First aide.. implant it. Get doc buff.. get trade skill made nano kits. Just because you suck doesn't mean you can make an argument from it.

5. If any doc can get to low HP in 3-4 Shots they are completely GIMPED. What level are you?

I never argued with the fact that a doc can do similar or better damage than other classes.

1. If I used A&O at 50 hp I would be dead by the time I finished casting. If you mean Complete Healing, I would use it when I hit half health. That is a huge amount of nano to restore 2k health. Two dots, a slow and a complete heal means I'm down to maybe 800 nano - INCLUDING a first aid used.

2. Yup, I do. I assume you're on RK1, name the time and place and I'll be there with my noob. Bring someone with a 200 Vektor ND shotgun and I will publicly acknowledge you are correct on these boards. If I'm right I expect you to do the same.

3. You have completely twisted my words. I never said I WANTED them to kill someone alone, I said they were INCAPABLE of doing it. Please read more thoroughly.

4. I'm using ql 125 first aids. And I don't feel like missioning for higher ql ones.

5. Level 164. Flashpoint Alpha Strike. The end.

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by Swicky
Umm im sorry Agentofdeath, im not understanding what u r trying to get it at...

Why would a doctor use alpha omega...when he is dueling?....its a team heal nano that takes 12sec to cast..plus the HUGE recharge time...

..There are no ql 200 vecktors...180 is the the highest..vektor dragon (or something like that)

Our dots alone will never kill a person...ie..by the time we can cast a dot that does "good" damage ..ie wrack & ruin 544 damage ( 15 ticks every 8 secs) stacked on..um lets say Sentient Nano Gorger 431 damage (15 ticks 6 secs) also they are halved in damage.. The people that are fighting will have quite a bit of hp..unless fighting a way way lower lvl...These two nanos way up there i say the doc has to be at least um 190ish self cast...lower with mochams and devoted implants. Heck yea i wish dots would kill people...esspecially for docs that dont use weapons or gimped ma docs.

Well the ql 125 first aid stims do not near do enough healing nor the resto stims....Yea like stitch said...if u find some of these let me know...I have almost 700 ish in First aid..resto stim or nano stims do not even fill my bars a quarter of the way...i think.

Complete heal...well lets say it uses way much nano..and takes a few secs to cast plus one heck of a recharge time. If the doc is fighting someone around his/her/its lvl when he/she/it can cast complete heal without help...then yes by the time the complete heal got off. The docs health would be around the same point where it started the heal.

A doc should be hard to kill...they are the best healers in the game.

I really like to see a doc against three other people...i dont think even with complete heal the doc would make it out alive. A doc can be beaten, anyone can be beaten..its just a matter of knowing how.. if u played a doc u would really really know our weakness.

Im sorry Agentofdeath I dont know what ur talking about..and i wish u had some "real" knowledge about what docs really are..im sorry if this insults u, but fact of the matter, i think ur post are just asking to be contradicted and proven wrong by ur lack of research on the subject. Also Stitch is one of the most respected docs on RK2...things like "Your first aide skill must suck" are quite a bit offensive.

Also one more thing, I remember a post on the doc boards..by a "someone" saying that docs job is only to heal... hmmm

If i get get flammed so be it, im tired of seeing post with no value in information.

swick out


swick out

swicks first flame! Only AoD could get the nicest most helpful guy on the boards and RK2 to put a post that was in ANY way negative.

/me hangs his head in sorrow

and yes, stitchings and swicky are in my opinion two of the nicest people you will ever meet in game or out. Kudo's to you two, tear AoD to shreds

[__________BestDealer]

Originally posted by Scumbug
ok another scenerio

team is fighting mobs
soldier is tanking
soldier gets attacked my PKer mid-fight with a mob
soldier now has player on him doing 50% damage
AND mob doing 100% damage . .
....

Just reduce healing to 50% in pvp zones when the doctor isn't teamed. Then for all those cheap-ass xp ganking bastards who want to prey on doctors and/or his teammates will have to deal with full healing, and if the doc is really a pvp monger he won't be getting any credit killing others while teamed w/full heals.

[____________Ejeckted]

that might work Zadeh,
except what about someone that wants to solo mobs in 25% or 0% zones?

[__________BestDealer]

Originally posted by Scumbug
that might work Zadeh,
except what about someone that wants to solo mobs in 25% or 0% zones?

If attacked by a player while agro'd by NPCs, then allow the doctor to have 100% healing, otherwise lower it unless teamed.

Since they've already managed to reduce player-to-player damage by 50% and cap specials at 40%, I'd assume that AO can discern between player/npc attacks to do something like that.

[Hunter06]

Ok,ok if you saw ao on a shelf right now i bet you would think the best pvp char would be a solider right? As i hear from these post docs are overpowered which sound true, but ive only fought a doc post 40% patch. I dont believe nerfs are good (nerfed burst made me useless) but something should be looked into. I dont have all the answers, well i dont have a answer to this at all, but i will say its kinda strange to see a solider thats a freshman in the same group with a doc thats a novice.

[Zerosignal]

Originally posted by Necessity
It's like a root folks.. the minute we start attacking whatever is debuffed it falls right off.....

Not true, NPC docs debuff me all the time and i have to sit and wait it out.

[Zerosignal]

Originally posted by Scumbug



honestly, if players realized that PvP in AO is obviously
designed for team vs team then maybe we'd get less
nerfs based on this stupid dueling notion.
since when is a war 1 on 1 ?
accept that some classes can kick other classes asses,
as they were designed to. paper, rock, scissors . .
and the best healing class in the game should be hard to kill.

Hmmm, no one seemed to care for that excuse when they were all screaming nerf Agents, One Shot kills, Soldiers, NTs....

the damage has been done, now it needs to be equalized

[________Dealingdeath]

Originally posted by Garzu
No more nerfs! Only enhancements to professions that need it!

HAHAHA, how can you say such a thing, "i dont want any nerfs, i just want to boost everything else if one small thing is overpowered"

We have to nerf sometimes, we cant boost every otehr profession everytime we find that one profession is overpowered. If one single weapon is overpowered, should we boost ALL others instead of nerfing that one single overpowered weapon? Nah, sounds stupid if you ask me, and with FCs limited resources, and because it is much easier to nerf one thing instead of boosting everything else, we should nerf sometimes, it saves alot of time, and FC can use time on other important stuff like content etc. And if we boost everything because of that single overpowered prof/item, then after some time we may find somethng else overpowered, then we need to boost again...

Nah we need nerfs, they are good for general game balance, but of course not fun for the ones effected by it.


i dont think it's possible to reduce healing for PvP.

I think it is, just as i posted earlier in this thread: If player hits doc for 300 dmg, and mob hits doc for 600 dmg, his heal should be 66% effective, that should be possible. Or else dmg needs to be 100% again, while specials still are capped at 40%

LOL - This is the argument of the silly whiners and what ends up happening is that the next most powerful nerf/weapon is then sighted for nerfing and so and so and so on in an endless cycle of nerfing.

If the player base would focus on enhancing other nanos, weapons and skill capabilties we wouldn't be caught up in this endless procession of nerfing and pissing off paying customers.

Would this take longer and more resources to implement? Probably, so that means we will have to wait a little longer for balance and yes it would piss off those raised with the 'fast food' mentality of 'serve me now' and restore my uberness but I say 'oh well'.

This game needs more nerfs like a fat lady needs sweets.