Doc speed debuff is way to overpowered!!! Docs in general are way to overpowered!!

[______________DocNec]

It's like a root folks.. the minute we start attacking whatever is debuffed it falls right off.....

[_____________Makarov]

Ummm how the heck are you planing as Crat to charm Robots or MP balls?

Only one who might mess whit Engineer bots would be fixer who might be able to hack into bots CPU and try to change its tasks.

And when we come to MP pets it is about same. They are not real living things who have no real brain and who only can hear their master who maked them

[__________Daemonicus]

Originally posted by Garzu
This debuff renders the target defenseless, and even with max resist at lvl 159 and bright and faded ql 200 nano resist imps i couldnt resist one single speed debuff out of 4.....

Docs are the UBER KINGS of pvp, and that speed debuff needs a big nerf! The resist needs to be upped, maybe a 200-300% resist on that debuff.

I cant give them damage... it is impossible, even with a ql 200 Gamma-Beamer with crit buff + nukes. It is impossible to kill a doc... They heal much faster than I can possible give dmg!!!

Heal needs to be PvP nerfed just as dmg was nerfed, remember, dmg didnt get nerfed because heal was underpowered. Nerf heal to 50% and a heal cap of 40% of max health.

Docs need a nerf in pvp, there is no doubt about it, to claim anything else is just lame, you docs know you are overpowered.

I have to agree with you on this. Docs are very overpowered in PvP. We shouldn't nerf or lower thier healing power in general because in groups we would die alot more. But I think they should nerf ALL heals in PvP. Capping damage and letting heals remains the same in PvP is a big unbalance. The damage is lower but the heals are just as powerful meaning that the damage you do is lower than the heals can heal for.

Even when you have the advantage.. you can only do a max of 40% damage on ANYONE in PvP.. Alpha & Omega a high level team heal for doc does as it says "heals the caster and all members of the casters team of all damage".. So no matter how much damage we do to them we cannot kill them.

Ok.. picture this.

Soldier - Nova flow, Alpha strike, Mirror shield, HP buffs, Deflection shields, Ability to do 40% damage
vs.
Doctor - High evades, QL 200 Vektor, CPU upgrade QL 200, Superior Humidity extractor (he asks for it from an NT), Nanokits that give back almost full nano restoration when used, Full Nano armor, DoTs, Nukes (yes they have nukes.. pretty powerful infact.. one of them I was unfortunate to be hit by was a high level fire damage one), Ability to heal 100% damage

Now taking this into consideration.. the Doctor can basically HEAL for more than we can damage him.. not because we suck but simply because of the simple math error Funcom did not overlook. We can do max 40% damage.. but we probably wont do that MAX.. with his high evades and Nano armor having a slight bit more AC than Omni elite.. .we would do maybe 20-32% dmg maybe less, when he can heal 100%.

I have witnissed first hand in 2ho a doc become a PvP god in 2ho. Drzand was his name and regardless of the 15+ omni firing on him he lived and killed almost all of them. I am not saying this is a bad thing.. I dislike omni but I do think that docs are way overpowered PvP wise.

The PvP cap was bad for all of us. Why should our damage be capped at 40%? To make the noobs happier?.. Funcom neglects the AC calculations and then in result nerfs PvP damage. So instead of hurting themselves with more work time and programming they hurt us by destroying our PvP enviorment as an excuse.

What Funcom needs to do:

Make ACs work right.. if my ACs are 2700.. any damage of that AC type dealt to me 2700 or below should be greatly reduced... whats the use of having 3k Energy AC and then have a Trader crit you first shot for 2300? Shouldn't your AC come in effect there? Nope.

Once the ACs start working right.. and armor starts to get useful, then the PvP cap needs to be removed. Yes Agents will get insta-kills, Yes NT nukes will take us to almost no HP again... yes Dimachs will be insta-respawn.. yes Shotguns will STILL be overpowered. But whats better? This or a completely nerfed destroyed and obliterated PvP scheme that puts Doctors on top?

[garpenlov]

Originally posted by Agentofdeath

This or a completely nerfed destroyed and obliterated PvP scheme that puts Doctors on top?

What's wrong with Doctors being on top? Who are you always looking for in a group? A doctor. Whose death ensures the rest of the team will follow that person to the reclaim? The doctor. And that's when the doctor is trying to keep you alive! Just imagine what happens when the doctor is trying to kill you.

And from a technical standpoint, isn't it going to be awfully difficult to tell when to half heals? I mean, maybe the check could be: If a player is recieving a heal, and the only thing attacking that player is another player, then the heal is halfed. Which means the doc just has to drag a gray along with him to keep him under attack from a mob to make his heals uncapped. If you do it any other way, then groups that get attacked while they're fighting mobs will be toast because suddenly : heals = half effectiveness, monster = full effectiveness.

[_______________Garzu]

I dont care who i am looking for, that is no reason why docs should be the masters of pvp, as if we owed docs anything at all! Btw, MAs is currently most wanted in team, not docs, at least at 140+

Bah, it is possible to make heals for player dmg 50% and mob dmg 100%. if player do 300 dmg, and mob do 600 dmg, the heal should be 66% effective! Should be an easy adjustment.

Anyway, slow nanos need a big nerf, and the NR possiblilty should be at least 200%, they are way to powerful atm.

[__________Stitchings]

Originally posted by Agentofdeath

Alpha & Omega a high level team heal for doc does as it says "heals the caster and all members of the casters team of all damage".. So no matter how much damage we do to them we cannot kill them.

Doctor - High evades, QL 200 Vektor, CPU upgrade QL 200, Superior Humidity extractor (he asks for it from an NT), Nanokits that give back almost full nano restoration when used, Full Nano armor, DoTs, Nukes (yes they have nukes.. pretty powerful infact.. one of them I was unfortunate to be hit by was a high level fire damage one), Ability to heal 100% damage

Have you ever played a doc that high? Do you even know what you're talking about? Let me point out the fallacies in your arguments.

1) Alpha & Omega requires 874 BM. There is no doc under level 190 that can cast that without pillows or an MP. The casting time on this is also 12 seconds. With 1000 nano init I have not seen this experimentally go under 8 seconds. There is not a single combat situation I can think of, pvp or pvm, where I would ever use this nano. It also costs 1800 nano. Even if I were to cast it I could not use it more than twice before running completely out of nano.

2) QL 200 Vektors do not exist.

3) First Degree Burns is a joke at high levels. I can do maybe 100ish damage to someone per cast, while wasting nano that could be better spent on heals. Also, our dots are incapable of killing anyone by themselves. There needs to be more supplemental damage - and in significant quantity - if we want them to be effective.

4) Nano kits that give full restoration? Boy, I'd love some of those, tell me where to find them. If you mean nano chargers, they restore less than half my nano now and can't be used in combat. If you mean nano first aids, they give me back even less. Enough for three heals, no more. As for humidity extractor, ask any NT how much help it is with continual casting.

5) Complete Healing. Yes, I can do this. I can do this twice in a row. Then I have maybe 1000 nano left. It takes me at least eight seconds to cast/recover from the nano. During that time an opponent can easily get in three or four shots, bringing me back to the same level I was at beforehand.

Now, I'm not denying that docs are very strong in pvp - I've seen and done some as well. But no doc is going to be able to kill you if you don't stand and fight. We're quite easily rooted, and when rooted you can easily zone and restore while we're standing there unable to do more than first aid ourselves. Finally, I've never seen a situation where I've been in a one on one fight with anyone. It's usually several people on one person at the same time. In that case the doc advantage is pretty much negated, if three similarly leveled people are beating on him at the same time.

[Thyrra]

i can't beat a doc that has completely optimized him/herself for pvp and is 15 levels above me. i can't beat any profession that has done the same thing either.

aside from reducing healing in pvp to 75%, taking docs completely out of the game along with soldiers ( because tehy want it that way ) would help people out a lot, in pvp.

why only 75%? balance. docs are weak in general. weaken the weak less than the strong to balance them out.

i really liked the pvp and pvm at once work/crew arounds posted earlier. forward thinking on top of forward thinking. kind of cool.

[________Dealingdeath]

Originally posted by Garzu
Yazule, the problem with beefing up all other profs will of course be that we get more power in pvm while the healing profs dont... That will not bring balance.

The point is that the healing professions don't need more power in PvM. Seems to me that the debuff you are talking about would work very well against MOBs don't ya think?

No more nerfs! Only enhancements to professions that need it!

[____________Ejeckted]

just a comment.

i dont think it's possible to reduce healing for PvP.

if a doc is in a 25% zone, fighting some mobs with a team,
and some opposite side PKer comes along and starts
attacking .. how could the game possibly know if the
doc is healing mob damage or player-inflicted damage?

player vs. player damage is easy to detect
since there is a link created between them.
healing yourself is just healing yourself, period.

i think it's a code/game-mechanic issue;
not simply a matter of some dev dreaming up rules.

[_______________Garzu]

No more nerfs! Only enhancements to professions that need it!

HAHAHA, how can you say such a thing, "i dont want any nerfs, i just want to boost everything else if one small thing is overpowered"

We have to nerf sometimes, we cant boost every otehr profession everytime we find that one profession is overpowered. If one single weapon is overpowered, should we boost ALL others instead of nerfing that one single overpowered weapon? Nah, sounds stupid if you ask me, and with FCs limited resources, and because it is much easier to nerf one thing instead of boosting everything else, we should nerf sometimes, it saves alot of time, and FC can use time on other important stuff like content etc. And if we boost everything because of that single overpowered prof/item, then after some time we may find somethng else overpowered, then we need to boost again...

Nah we need nerfs, they are good for general game balance, but of course not fun for the ones effected by it.


i dont think it's possible to reduce healing for PvP.

I think it is, just as i posted earlier in this thread: If player hits doc for 300 dmg, and mob hits doc for 600 dmg, his heal should be 66% effective, that should be possible. Or else dmg needs to be 100% again, while specials still are capped at 40%

[xbmspec]

If your gonna B*tch about our Int Debuffs, ill B*tch about Traders Massive Debuffs that break , no debuff , but BREAK a whole line of nanos! (And you know it NTs but no wait, we complain about the int debuff.. why? Maybe cause you think docs dont deserve it and traders do?) Oh you want fair right. Lets talk Nano Shut down, I dont see to many NTs complaining about that either? I think this is a simple moan and groan cause one of a hundred doctors killed you. *WAHHH*

[_______________Esmee]

Woo garzu looks like you're rivaling Agentofdeath for the title of most idiotic poster!
And while we're nerfing, halve all damage shields please. waaah i can't beat people that have them. sniff sniff
and please take away NT and meta debuffs since i can't beat them if they get a jump on me. boo hoo its not fair.

[_______________Garzu]

OK, i am sorry, that hurts... i admit i was very pissed when i posted this thread and posts and had just been killed by a doc.... but the problem is the combination of 100% heals 50% dmg and slow debuffs... that combo makes it impossible to kill a doc, to be honest, i dont want docs to be nerfed, but i think we should play under the same rules... either cap healing at 50% and 40% of max health.... (you dont like this) or we need dmg back to 100% and specials capped at 40% of max health.

[________________Ming]

A Doctor has never killed anyone with a debuff or heal. You can call it annoying but hardly call docs the uber kings of PvP. You always have the option to run. Something you can't do when someone is rooting your ass while someone else blasts you to death.

Hmm. I can't kill a doc in PvP. He does what a trader does to a doc, to an MA. I simply cannot heal. 1 20 second heal is longer than it takes for a shotty doc to kill me. A shotty doc with all crit buffs is GOD to an MA. It's impossible to kill them with that debuff on.

Furthermore at low levels I stood toe to toe with a doc for 20 min straight with my fixer. My fixer has over 1300AC and the doc was capping w/ shotgun at 9 damage. So he couldnt kill me either. My HoT out healed his damage. But for 20 min we stood there firing. It was silly. I would have had to crit 4 times in a row to kill the doc, and trust me, my gun is WAY overequipped. He could outheal the immense damage I was doing w/ nano stims. I'm telling you, I would have had to have had a level 130 or higher shotgun to kill this doc at level 35. That is just to ilustrate how powerful a doc is without the debuff. I had another level 21 doc kill the same character, because she was using a hammer. A 21 doc killed my 35 fixer. I had her down to less than 300 HP 4 or 5 times but with stims a doc can heal infinitely.

Now factor in the debuff, which makes my MA's heals completely useless and they're impossible to kill. Period. I would venture to say that the exact same docs that kill my MA 100% of the time (my same level) would die to me 50% of the time if they couldnt take away my healing. It's simple, they make all other healing classes unable to heal.

Traders are the rock and docs the scissors. Traders own docs, hands down. Docs are the same to MAs. Meta's and traders are about even from what I've seen Everyone else is in an entirely different class, including even enforcers.

All I would ask is that this debuff break like root. I would also question the extent to which traders can debuff in PvP. I think it's ridiculous that they can completely shut down any other class's nanos. My solution to that would be that trader debuffs breakable as well. I'm sure the traders would cry about that, but my god jim, they're unbeatable. An MA should be able to do a lot of things. I don't care if FC NEVER nerfs docs or traders, but I would certainly expect to be able to do more as an MA than stand there pecking at them like a sparrow for 10 seconds before being blown to bits.

[__________Mindswayer]

Originally posted by Nianna
PvP can happen while people are already fighting monsters. How would heals be dealt with then? If some low level guy comes up and shoots your healer (or perhaps your tank) one time then runs away while you in the middle of fighting borgs in perpetual wastelands does that mean you die now because the healing is only 50% effective? If not, won't people attack low level monsters on purpose and pull them into PvP fights for max healing? If so, is it fair that a person can cause your team to die by shooting you one time for 8 damage while you are in a fight with a monster?

Easy, soon as you attack or cast an offensive nano upon a player Healing switches to 50% until you sit down and use a treatment lab.

Damn good idea if I say so myself

[______________Yazule]

that would not work, you would have to say that any time a player was fighting a mob that healing was 100%. Otherwise people would attack a hunting party and the MOB would do all the work.

Yes, there are exploits available with this (shooting a reet in meet when in a duel) but if someone attacks a hunting party they should just pay the price of 100% heals.

[____________Ejeckted]

Originally posted by EvilGlitch


Easy, soon as you attack or cast an offensive nano upon a player Healing switches to 50% until you sit down and use a treatment lab.

Damn good idea if I say so myself

your idea doesnt solve anything.

so all a griefer has to do is shoot the doc once,
who was not previously involved in combat,
and the doc auto-aggros the griefer and
healing drops to 50%. changes nothing.

even if the doc had the agg/def bar left enough to
not auto-attack, it doesnt change the situation.

the PKer attacks while the team of victims is
fighting mobs and the victims either have to
a) not fight back and let the PKer kill them
b) respond, and lose 50% of healing while
the mob/s is still beating on them for non-nerfed damage.

sorry but it doesnt work.

PvP in AO will have to be team vs team,
so that players can gang up to take out the doc first
faster than he can heal.

honestly, if players realized that PvP in AO is obviously
designed for team vs team then maybe we'd get less
nerfs based on this stupid dueling notion.
since when is a war 1 on 1 ?
accept that some classes can kick other classes asses,
as they were designed to. paper, rock, scissors . .
and the best healing class in the game should be hard to kill.

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by Scumbug



your idea doesnt solve anything.

so all a griefer has to do is shoot the doc once,
who was not previously involved in combat,
and the doc auto-aggros the griefer and
healing drops to 50%. changes nothing.

even if the doc had the agg/def bar left enough to
not auto-attack, it doesnt change the situation.

the PKer attacks while the team of victims is
fighting mobs and the victims either have to
a) not fight back and let the PKer kill them
b) respond, and lose 50% of healing while
the mob/s is still beating on them for non-nerfed damage.

sorry but it doesnt work.

PvP in AO will have to be team vs team,
so that players can gang up to take out the doc first
faster than he can heal.

honestly, if players realized that PvP in AO is obviously
designed for team vs team then maybe we'd get less
nerfs based on this stupid dueling notion.
since when is a war 1 on 1 ?
accept that some classes can kick other classes asses,
as they were designed to. paper, rock, scissors . .
and the best healing class in the game should be hard to kill.

very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very well put.

[_______________Garzu]

Originally posted by Yazule
Yes, there are exploits available with this (shooting a reet in meet when in a duel) but if someone attacks a hunting party they should just pay the price of 100% heals.

This is a good idea... heals should be 100% as long as the doc is in fight with an NPC, doesnt matter if doc is fighting player too, if so, heals stays 100%, but 50% if in fight with players only.

[_______________Fryli]

Remember to half the debuff of nt's debuff nuke.
Remember to half the Nullity sphere mk I and II, it's unbalancing that the nt take away 1000000000000000000 dmg during the time it last.
Remember to half the EAF and Fleeting Imunity.
Remember to make roots 400% posible for a resist.
Remember to make Jobe nano liberaries line and Humidity line only do half during PvP.
Remember.......................

Why don't u run when u see a doc Garzu?, heck i run when i see a Trader, a MP (that i know have nanoshutdown), i get my azz wacked by MA's, some Agents, some soldiers and i have even been killed by a Omni-nt about 20-25 lvl below me....Azz...something.

Do u hear me cry for a nerf on Traders and MP's, and heck even soldiers shield that take away dmg for 1000% during the time it last?
No actually i see this as a chalenge, i hate Traders 50 lvl below me that root and debuff and make me lick dust, but i fancy the challenge of fighting them.
I love MP's :-) i've managed to kill some, even with nanoshutdown on me, but thats becouse i managed to dot them before they hitt me. I did run when i saw Candis in 2ho, she was mean to me... we fought lots of times before 1/2 patch and after. Before patch i killed her more then she killed me, after patch well i got 1 kill with a traders help....and i never dared to fight her alone.

What i'm trying to tell ya, it's a lot of buffs out there, and lots of them are making some professions unbalanced agains others. But why should we all be equal? no fun in that, standing toe to toe and banging each othere for a 50/50 outcome no matter what profession ur fighting.

I know our debuffline hurt casters more then others, but hey, find a way to deal with it. Just don't be so gimped and whiny.
Doc's are not that uber, i'm biting the dust more often then i like. But i still don't cry for a nerf.