Doc speed debuff is way to overpowered!!! Docs in general are way to overpowered!!

[_______________Garzu]

This debuff renders the target defenseless, and even with max resist at lvl 159 and bright and faded ql 200 nano resist imps i couldnt resist one single speed debuff out of 4.....

Docs are the UBER KINGS of pvp, and that speed debuff needs a big nerf! The resist needs to be upped, maybe a 200-300% resist on that debuff.

I cant give them damage... it is impossible, even with a ql 200 Gamma-Beamer with crit buff + nukes. It is impossible to kill a doc... They heal much faster than I can possible give dmg!!!

Heal needs to be PvP nerfed just as dmg was nerfed, remember, dmg didnt get nerfed because heal was underpowered. Nerf heal to 50% and a heal cap of 40% of max health.

Docs need a nerf in pvp, there is no doubt about it, to claim anything else is just lame, you docs know you are overpowered.

[________________Ming]

As an MA I was extremely defensive about the idea of halving heals when people griped. Then I fought a couple docs. All I've gotta say is, unless you're a trader and can debuff their heals, good luck killing one. They put out the same or higher damage as an enforcer with a good shotty and can't be touched. That muscle debuff may as well be a -2000 to all nano skills. It renders my healing 100% useless as well as any hope of returning any damage. As an MA of course I couldnt do damage to them even if I weren't debuffed. It's impossible to kill a doc in PvP with an MA. Literally, impossible if they have even the least amount of ability.

Traders, enforcers, and perhaps an engie with a slayer or a meta can kill them, with difficulty. Any class that doesnt do extreme damage and /or have huge debuffs are completely helpless. This is a doctor mind you. I may as well not have heals against them, so yes please do half healing if you want to. That or kill that ridiculous muscle debuff.

[______________Nianna]

Doctor heals cannot be reduced unless monster damage is reduced. It already can take as many as three doctors to heal the damage being done by some high level monsters.

[________________Ming]

I think they meant halved heals only in PvP to go along with halved damage in PvP.

[_____________Barakon]

Metas should have no problem at all slaughtering Docs in PvP.

[______________Nianna]

PvP can happen while people are already fighting monsters. How would heals be dealt with then? If some low level guy comes up and shoots your healer (or perhaps your tank) one time then runs away while you in the middle of fighting borgs in perpetual wastelands does that mean you die now because the healing is only 50% effective? If not, won't people attack low level monsters on purpose and pull them into PvP fights for max healing? If so, is it fair that a person can cause your team to die by shooting you one time for 8 damage while you are in a fight with a monster?

[_____________Paldorr]

Nope, not the case at all. It's just that ridiculous posts like yours have already resulted in many needless nerfs since November. Way, way to many professions have become unviable in the name of "balance."

So please, if you thinks Doc's are so uber, just make one and stop whining "he's better than me." It just hurts us all.

[________________Ming]

I think the orignal poster was talking about the speed debuff if that was who you were addressing.

[_______________Garzu]

First you have to understand that nerfing dmg 50% and not nerf healing at all makes alot of unbalance, is that hard to understand? So something needs to be done, quickly! I see no reason why one profession should own all otehrs. Speciallly not doctors.

And that muscle debuff is WAY to overpowered, it needs a big nerf, and tthe resist needs to be at least 200%. Currently it is a much better nano than "Nano Shutdown"!!! Its infact the best debuff nano in the game, only trader can compete with such a overpowered uber debuff.

Just for the record, this is from PvP experience, i dont want healing nerf in PvM

[__________starknaked]

Back before the pvp changes even went into effect, when we heard that weapon damage was going to be cut in half while healing would stay at full potential, we knew this was going to make healing professions overpowered.

And apparently that's exactly what happened.

[________________Sent]

I just want to point out ...

A NT alternating root and nuke will kill you.

A Agent alternating shots and root will kill you.

A MP/Engineer/Crat that gets their pet on you will kill you.

A Doctor has never killed anyone with a debuff or heal. You can call it annoying but hardly call docs the uber kings of PvP. You always have the option to run. Something you can't do when someone is rooting your ass while someone else blasts you to death.

Roots and Pets is what's overpowered in PvP. Not heals, unless you can point out a time that a heal killed you?

BTW, why wasn't root power made 1/2 as effective with the change?

[______________Seoman]

Hell i likede the pvp before 13.0 yes soldiers/agents/fixers/enfs could whipe me with a specials but if i got the jump on them i stood a very good chance of winning.

I think that the idea of a 40% cap on dmg is good for somethings while others should have the possbility of killing outright (dimach, FA, aimedshot, 2-5 of the very rare nukes, izgimmers combat nukes and kel's, rule of one)

as for the 50% well i have learned to live with it but i fought a doc today as nt.

The doc which i got the jump on ignored my debuf pretty much (-115 all) and debuffed my speed with -1800 even with my nano init of 1200 that leaves me at -600 go figure, and about -1500 on my weapon skills

My high nano resistance as nt is useless against that debuf it seems, his dot took some 3 min to kill me, and all that time he easily out healed me and kept my speed debuffed

Considering that i as nt have green nanoresist (maxed) faded+bright ql 200 implants you would think i had countered at least once but no, while he countered 3 of my nukes

Some debufs like the doc speed debuf, meta nanoshutdown are compleetly overpowered for pvp now and need a bad hit with the nerf stick personaly i just find them to hard to counter and to long duration no debuf of that magnitude should last that long it can't help but displace the balance of the game.

It would be like if they let nt Nuke+stuns nanos work in pvp, we can chain those - and if they do that we will be overpowered.

No they don't work in pvm atm either but they did before 12.7
back then you could lock down a mob while your nano lasted (not long since that kind of nuke is damned expesive to use)

And they don't really do anything in pvm anyway i've seen mobs use high lvl nukes after a mp used nanoshutdown on them and as for speed decress i have yet to note a change when a doc uses it in pvm

[_______________Garzu]

Sent, a heal never killed me, but heals makes it so you cant kill a doc if you are for example an NT, our nukes simply do less dmg than you can heal for... that cant be looked upon as balance. Root a doc? I got a very good non exploit on how docs breaks roots very easily... and many docs uses it.

Root n nuke? As long as i am slow debuffed, i can forget all aobut offensive thinking at all, only choice is to run.

Im not going to speak for all otehr profs and what problems they got vs docs, but roots is very ineffective against docs, and most of you can heal faster than they can do dmg.

Roots overpowered?? Nah, its totally opposite, they break way to easy, they break at the same moment you get dmg.

And i dont know why roots got 50%, maybe they should make the duration 50%, its ok for me, but a root should stick much harder than it currently does, at least a couple of nukes should land before it breaks.

[______________Yazule]

Yes healing in pvp is a bit overpowering if a doc decides to use a shotty or if you are a meta (dont forget their pets are the second best healers in the game).

I have no suggestions as to what to do about it, maybe make damage 75%? Wait, with a 40% cap it dont matter.... hmmm

I would rather see other classes beefed to compair, but I have no Idea how they could do that short of giving healing nano's to every class... hmmm

I hate nerf, but sometimes it has to happen.

Lets all think of a way to BEEF other classes instead!

[_______________Garzu]

Yazule, the problem with beefing up all other profs will of course be that we get more power in pvm while the healing profs dont... That will not bring balance.

[__________Stitchings]

Get rid of doc slows entirely. They're too overpowered. Since docs are healers they shouldn't be allowed to use weapons either, and while we're talking hippocratic oath remove dots and dds. I also think docs should not be allowed to use armor; no one would ever dream of hurting someone on an errand of mercy anyway. Just let them sit back and heal.

Oh yeah, last but not least, the doc polygons generate too much lag for tanks. Just turn them into a brown meatball shape and put the /follow command on every hotkey.

Bah, I say. If you complain about my slow, I'll complain about Coronet/Crown of Frost. It's not FAIR that you can damage and debuff at the same time. It's not FAIR that Funcom wants to fix Electrifying Containment so it stuns as well as does damage. NERF NERF NERF. Sheesh. How about we have everyone remove their weapons, line up in the arena, and bend over for you so you can kill us all easily.

Thank you for your time.

[______________Yazule]

stitch,

You know I am a doc fan, no doubt about it, your debuff is no more nasty than a traders (a lot less nasty imho). I think docs are fine, they have been trying to balance pvp for quite some time now and the damage reduction did a lot to help that out. Personally I think they still have a little way to go to make pvp balanced, and honestly *honestly* I would rather have a doc with the overpower than anyone else. Docs are some of the nicest people.

I do think IN PVP healing is overpowered, that makes agents and solja's with NO healing very gimped. I have an enforcer, I can heal myself of 1000 pts every 10-15 seconds, so I am a "healer" too, and I personally think it gives me a HUGE edge. I dont think it is Doc's that need nerfing. To say "nerf docs" who mostly cant even solo 50% missions for creds is absolutly INSANE.


It is not a doc issue, it is a pvp issue, and your debuff is fair game imho. If I was a doc I would use it in a heartbeat!

[cold]

"I can't beat docs, nerf them!"
Bah. Whenever a profession has something useful, someone'll start yelling that it's unfair.
Let's nerf roots for PvP too, or at least make melee weapon users immune.

[______________Obitus]

Originally posted by Garzu
Yazule, the problem with beefing up all other profs will of course be that we get more power in pvm while the healing profs dont... That will not bring balance.

I don't think that beefing other profs will cause unbalance in PvM as the mobs are way over powered anyhow. We all know that mob AC and HP are way too high.

I think that any debuffs in the game should stay in the game, but nano-resist needs to be fixed so that debuffs don't hit every time. Duration of debuffs should be lowered as well. A 5 min root or debuff is just rediculous. Debuffs and roots should last no longer than 30-45 secs. IMO

[Downsizr]

Making nano-resist really work is a very good option. But then Garzu will jump on you because nano-resist won't be doc-specific.

Now maybe the problem is adressed in a way that is too general.
If everyone wants a fair chance agasint every other profession, the balancing is not imaginable.

The best way to get out of this loop is just to have professions that are good at PvPing some of the other profs and have real hard time against the others.

Right now Enforcers are viewed as the more balanced class both in PvM and PvP. I think that we have some serious problems killing MP and Docs because of the heals. We have bad times with soldiers and their MK-Shield or NT and their roots, but with some strategy we can do it (so it's 50/50). And other professions are rather dead in front of us, unless you PvP at level 30 and face an uber twinker.
This is my personal ranking for my profession, so your mileage may vary, it's not the point. the point is that Enforcers are in a situation where in PvP we face "green", "yellow" or "orange" professions.
We don't have a fair chance against everyone !

Then maybe other professions could be balanced in this way.

For ex. there is no need that a Crat is balanced vs. every single profession in the game. Just let them have a edge against other pet class allowing them to charm the pets. Then they would kill rather easily any MP or Engie, and still die in front of a good damage dealer (Sold, Enf, NT) without pet. Against Doc, Trader, ... they would be so-so.

Hope I was clear.