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Thread: /petition Help MA's in PvP.

  1. #1

    /petition Help MA's in PvP.

    When it comes to dishing out raw combat damage a Martial Artist outshines all other professions!

    That is the description of the Martial Artist in the character generation hall. While it holds reasonably true in PvM, that statement is reversed in PvP. I will try to outline the problems MA's have in PvP and in doing that I will compare to other professions. Please note that I do not wish those other professions to be nerfed to the MA level.

    14.6 had two big changes in the game mechanics of Anarchy Online.
    * Roots were made unbreakable except by taking a large amount of damage or using a special nano/item.
    * Crit percentage was halved in PvP.

    Presumably as a bonus to the players, the recharge time of specials (aimed shot/burst etc) was dramatically decreased with high skill in the appropriate special. There also appeared a number of high-damage non-crit reliant weapons and a fixing of weapon initiatives was started.

    The Martial Artist is per definition a fast hitting, high-crit% melee profession with the option of using a bow as a ranged weapon. The changes in 14.6 hit MA's flat on the head, being melee and rooted equals no damage output at all and when/if the MA is able to get in melee range, the damage output is dramatically lowered due to the reduction of crits. The bows currently in game generally have lower damage then the melee weapons at an MA's disposal, are quite a bit slower and also lack special attacks except aimed shot (and fling shot on the bows with even lower damage and longer equip time). From all the boosts given to weapon special attacks, MA’s can utilize one: Aimed shot.

    Let me postulate a few other things of interest:
    * Slow weapons outdamage fast weapons over time.
    5 x 500 damage is far less then 1 x 2500 if you take AC into account. With 2500 AC the 5 x 500 is reduced to 1250 damage while the 1 x 2500 damage is reduced to 2250.
    Consider this in the light of the init fix.

    * Melee should outdamage ranged.
    Core game principle that has been true since the old paper RPG’s. Since you have to close to an opponent, you should be able to dish out serious damage at point blank. It might be true for Enforcers, but MA’s (and quite often melee Adventurers) are outdamaged by easily available ranged weapons. The weapon arsenal of Martial Artists are quite limited. Fists are fast, crit reliant weapons: Ql200 fists is 68-260 (500) 1.45/1.45. All MA melee weapons follow the same principle; fast, small damage range with a distinct crit bonus. The Torture Tool, considered the "best" MA weapon, has a damage of 111-111 (666) at QL200. (highest availabe in game is QL149) None of the MA weapons have fast/sneak attack.
    Consider this in the light of the crit reduction and the superiority of slow weapons.

    * Melee should have other special benefits.
    And indeed it does. In AO, melee users can hit while moving and melee hits can interrupt a nanoprogram being “cast”. The advantage of hitting while moving is neglible considering that you need to be close to the opponent to hit, and interrupting in PvP is very rare.
    Consider this in the light of how powerful roots are have become.

    So: MA’s are stuck with fast, crit reliant weaponry while the game mechanics changed and gave more bonus to slow, non-crit reliant weaponry. MA’s do not have access to any weapon specials except aimed shot, and can reap no benefit from the improved recycle time on the others. Brawl/Dimach, the two specials MA’s use, were not changed. The ranged arsenal of bows (all 11 of them, not counting the howling bow since it has not been found) perform poorly and the best bow buff/item in the game drops from Oscar the Reet, meaning that a MA’s attack rating with a bow will be low.

    When a Martial Artist enters a 25% suppression gas zone, he steps through the looking glass. All his strengths, which make him very capable in PvM, are heavily reduced and the compensating items (the Wave MA special attack) does effectively nothing except offering an means to run away from the battlefield.

    To give you some idea of how poorly a MA performs in PvP after 14.6/14.7 let me give you some examples I’ve personally experienced. These are all with 1100+ MA skill and UVC running, on full def with 750ish nanoresist.

    Agent, Crat, Fixer, Trader, NT (I.E all rooting professions) can kill a MA without risk.
    Enforcer reflects alone outdamages a MA.
    Doctor DoT’s alone outdamages a MA at point blank.
    Personally, I’ve lost against all professions even in a test environment where I was allowed to initiate combat at melee range. That might just be me being a lousy PvP’er, but the most experienced MA PvP’ers seem to experience the same thing.

    So, basically this is a plea to all of you.

    Help.

    There is a plethora of options on how to make a MA viable in PvP again, the details aren’t interesting, but with the Notum Wars focusing heavily on PvP something needs to be done.

    When it comes to dishing out raw combat damage a Martial Artist outshines all other professions! Currently, in PvP, it’s the complete opposite.
    /DaveDread (D.A.V.E.D.R.E.A.D.: Digital Artificial Violence and Exploration Device/Replicant Engineered for Assassination and Destruction mohahaha)

    200 Opifex Clanner Gimp - Dinged in Style! (dimached a Virulent Minibull) Finally got my head straight, nothing like a goat helmet to get you in shape again. Oh, and those marks on my forehead (yah, still visible through the helmet, duh)... It was a Motorcycle baby. Really. Ran me over in West Athens while I was working on my tan. Think I look bad? You should see the biker.

  2. #2
    send a /tell to Dragonfly instead, perhaps he can help you
    President of Ali Baba and the 40 thieves

    Garzu 193 Day 1 NT & Garzuperman My Fixer 4 fun since NTs are broken

    GA3/4 DESPERATELY NEEDED!!

  3. #3
    As a MA at 200 my attack rating is 1160-1190 with fist only , 930ish bow skill ( fadded imp confilct with ma skill). around 1k of all eva skill +750 ish nano resist.

    I can't kill any proof can root in pvp . DOC/trader/enf can kill me easy. doc's dot > my fist( after init denuff) dmg most time ........ A green enf with QB hit me 2 hit and i run away ....... 1st 1800, 2nd 2100( not cirtical)....... i cirtical him 1100 only ...............

    No bow is worth in pvp so far with 930 attack rating


    I'd like to say after some test MA is NOT able to pvp in high lev even we have as cirtical as before MA still sick of the root and dnare nano .............. new kits and attack both can't help us in PVP .

    I will not buy the boost pack if MA prof can't be fixed , without PVP ability boost pack is useless for me .

    PLZ make some test for this prof and give us some answer .


    Thank you
    Attention!!!
    Kill ma in pvp will not be looked as farming pvp title
    No dangerous, no exception gogogo

    crats what r u waiting for ?

    171 soldier
    200 ma
    174 NT ( leveling )
    83 doc
    ................

    I am in China now . no AO this month .......

  4. #4
    first of all the proffesion descriptions are broken, none of the descriptions comes true.

    then, ranged does more damage, have you ever seen an MA do a 10k brawl or dim? or an enf the same? or sneak attack or fast attack at that? those are the melee specials,
    contra an FA, Burst Fling aimed??

    personally i coudlnt care less about MAs they had their time of glory with all the loving and nerfing of other proffesions, so it was about time they got whacked with the Reality Hammer!

    HOWEVER!!!!! i do belive if it is like you say that they got whacked a bit to hard, just a bit mind ya
    220/26 and an army of alts
    so much to do, so little time to do it

  5. #5
    enforcers support fixin ma's, who we gonna have to compete with if you guys stay gimped!
    I am Dnastyone Official Broom pusher for The Professionals
    Painmage my newest funnest guy
    PHEAR ME RK1 Yazule IMMMM BACK

    I would have to say that this is an typicall example of how an flame should not look like. You need to think things through and calm down before you try to write an flame... Im sorry but I would rate this flame with an 1. Aggression is to high, grammar and cursing isnt to well planned... Maybe he has an point somewhere in there but I dont even want to find it. - Centurion3

    ROFLOL

  6. #6
    Hmmm, if you have never seen a enforcer or adv. do a 10k Sneak attack, go ask a high lvl one. I'm sure he will show you quite easily.
    And what's with the "MA's had their time of glory?"...where , when...? damn, i missed that game
    No combat macroing is allowed in AO, and it will, if you get caught doing it, get you, your family, your friends and everyone who look like you banned so fast, you will be able to hear the sonic boom all the way to Aldebaran - Revelator

  7. #7
    Sneak Attack = Melee version of Aimed Shot or Full Auto

    Quite possible to get 10K sneaks with high skill.

    Doc, Traders, and Enforcers can 0wn almost anyone in 1-on-1 PvP. (Especially Enforcers have the Challenger change..)

    I don't particularly feel bad for MAs, since many of your complains have hit Melee Adventurers even harder this last patch. At least MAs have a root breaker that actually works.

    -Jayde
    Last edited by Jayde; Nov 28th, 2002 at 04:06:46.

  8. #8
    Originally posted by Jayde
    Sneak Attack = Melee version of Aimed Shot or Full Auto

    Quite possible to get 10K sneaks with high skill.

    Doc, Traders, and Enforcers can 0wn almost anyone in 1-on-1 PvP. (Especially Enforcers have the Challenger change..)

    I don't particularly feel bad for MAs, since many of your complains have hit Melee Adventurers even harder this last patch. At least MAs have a root breaker that actually works.

    -Jayde

    omg enforcer stacked up next to doc and trader w000t

    you have NO idea how long I have waited for this moment!
    I am Dnastyone Official Broom pusher for The Professionals
    Painmage my newest funnest guy
    PHEAR ME RK1 Yazule IMMMM BACK

    I would have to say that this is an typicall example of how an flame should not look like. You need to think things through and calm down before you try to write an flame... Im sorry but I would rate this flame with an 1. Aggression is to high, grammar and cursing isnt to well planned... Maybe he has an point somewhere in there but I dont even want to find it. - Centurion3

    ROFLOL

  9. #9
    http://v020u46eff.maximumasp.com/AOD...sp?AOID=205405

    10 sec is not enough to kill anyone . lock skill 110 sec at ql 200 ........useful ? i would like to type /terminate which is more effecient in pvp lol
    Attention!!!
    Kill ma in pvp will not be looked as farming pvp title
    No dangerous, no exception gogogo

    crats what r u waiting for ?

    171 soldier
    200 ma
    174 NT ( leveling )
    83 doc
    ................

    I am in China now . no AO this month .......

  10. #10
    Second DaveDread on this one. Just don't forget the other melee users out there. There is already a big disadvantage in the *range* of melee weapons (that why its melee see).

    If the melee user where the one having roots, he would still have to move within attack range to do anything. The oposite is a broken mechanism. Okay, nukers need to keep their target stuck for long attacks. *But* what nuke have a 30second attack time (with maxed init)(and is used)?

    Personally I don't think mass PvP will be fun for all unless 1vs1 is reasonably balanced.

  11. #11
    Whine less, work with the problem more... MAs used to be able to kill people in less then 4 seconds. I remember getting cut to shreads thru my MK shield by MAs all the time...


    MAs are not the only melee professions, or people in general that are effected by the root change... im screwed as a soldier too. I have no way to break roots....


    The point is that MAs were on the top of the food chain before... now thier not... Try to adjust, not just whine.

    soldiers have been getting gimped for the last month....


    ~sky
    215 Solitus Soldier RK1
    Advisor Midnight Reveries.

    Do politics exist? Yes.
    Who's involved in them? Anyone who wants to be.

    If you spend your time worrying about what everyone else is doing in their lives, you'll miss what's happening in yours.

  12. #12
    But you can shoot back at anyone trying to hit you Skymarshal. Thats a huge diffrence. Why not *try* to put yourself into the problem *before* opening your mouth? Davedread raises a valid question here, and no its not just MA's its melee users in general!

  13. #13
    if we were unvulnerable to roots, we'd still be horrible.... something needs to be done.
    Guru - Averykins "Kylee6" Submissiv (15% River Series 6 Princess of 2002)
    Clan Eternal Fury

  14. #14
    Your only problem is damage. Don't cry about roots. That's what you get for being melee.

    And MA damage is the utter suck. With just rrfe running, I can outheal a title 6 fist MA. And I'm an MP. :P

    Now, I run in to this enforcer (grrr :P) who hits me for 2k THROUGH rrfe NORMAL damage.

    2k NORMAL DAMAGE

    Title 6 MA hits me for 150-200 NORMAL DAMAGE.

    2000 NORMAL DAMAGE
    vs
    15-200 NORMAL DAMAGE

    If you can't see the umm...imbalance, then you're fairly stupid.

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