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Thread: "OTSEC Operation Destroys Sentinels-Council of Ares Arms Stockpile"

  1. #21
    I could now for the next 10 pages draw up the most popular propaganda lies of world history, but I fail to see what this has to do with the problem at hand, cause it is still an OOC problem. On a sidenote, George is a dangerously crazy man (quote on Saddam: "After all, this man tried to kill my father" - no, George, it was your father that tried to kill Saddam) who might draw the world even further into a conflict he cannot win, and I am not believing any word he says. But this is not the point, and I am well aware of what happens IC - the propaganda battle is going now for quite a while and I remember that I answered to some of your posts on different channels and will continue to do so.

    We will not be able to discuss anything as long as you talk about IC reasoning and I talk about OOC behaviour.

    Excuse me, Alamexis, but if you continue down the tracks of IC logic, you apparently didn't get my point. Perhaps you will read again what Jynne wrote, cause she got the point perhaps better than I did: If you start messing with my story, you are messing with my gameplay, and ultimately with the way I want to enjoy this game, and it's my game just as much as it is yours. In doing what you did, you do not only cause an IC effect on the community and the ongoing story, but you also change the game for all the people involved and in this case, I was one of the people for whom it changed for the worse. In other words, making us part of your event you forced us on a story that we weren't even asked for an oppinion, even less for approval. You forced us to play the way you liked it, and, just so, ruined an evening for me while I engaged into this apparently fruitless discussion.

    At some time I was ready to abort this discussion as I was asked to do so by Sambika. I deleted several of my posts and perhaps it's for the better as they were a lot more emotional than this one. But still one fact remains that you cannot argue: Instead of enjoying an evening of gameplay, I have to explain over and over why I consider your (OTSEC's plot people) a bad move and a disregard of me and others that might feel the same way.

    Now all I am asking you is to avoid this in the future by asking us first. This is simply polite and I do not think that you are all bad roleplayers. But all I get in response is IC explanations of your IC behaviour which makes me wonder about your oppinion on me: Do you think I'm dim-witted and can't understand how in-game-politics work? Do I make the impression of being particularly dull and unable to cope with the political situation as it presents itself right now?

    All I am asking you (OTSEC) is to avoid drawing us on plots without asking us and we will do the same. The one rule I ask for is:

    Before you do something, think about the impact on other PLAYERS. If you cannot safely rule out that someone might feel offended, insulted, annoyed or griefed, ask the person, explain what you plan to do and every mature player will be understanding it and I doubt you will ever hear a "no".

    FYI: I am not generally a person that is easily offended. I do not take any IC things personally, though I have by now a fairly long list of /ignores. I do however jump if someone pushes me to play into a certain direction without me wanting it or at least giving me the chance to decide if I want it or not. You did, you spoiled my game time for today and I have no reason to act any more forthcoming than I do.
    Corrine Daimoness Wright
    - Veteran of Apocalypse
    - General of the Mercury Dragons (ret.)
    - Member of the Grumpy Old Crat Bunch

    If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. - Samuel Adams

  2. #22
    We will not be able to discuss anything as long as you talk about IC reasoning and I talk about OOC behaviour.
    This(OTSEC plot) is an OOC problem if you make it or let it be one. No more, no less.
    And actually, I referred to both. Pardon me for not being clear enough. IC reasons for the plot are perfectly valid. OOC behaviour? I think you're taking it, something that was done to BENEFIT and MOVE the RP community, way too personally. That's my opinion on your OOC behaviour, since you so generously offered yours. We're inconsiderate? Griefing? Annoying? And insulting? By just giving a little push IC, in game, without your permission? It seems disappointing that we can't act and react IC only at least SOMETIMES.

    Question. What if Greenies had done this? Or what if a horde of Greenies decided to arrest one of your high ranking members suddenly without their "OOC consent". Would you be annoyed? Or would you play it out and deal with it IC and leave it there. I'd really like to know.

    Is it really because we did something without a permission slip first? Or is it because it was such a PROFOUND twist/lie?

    I just don't get it I suppose. I'm not like you, I like surprises, twists.. pull me in, drown me in plot. MESS with my story, please. Shake it up, let's RP! That's why I'm HERE. For others to stick their nose in my "story". Etcetera.

    So that'll be a major problem in our RP if there is any in the future. So I'm leaving it that.

    OOC permission required. Noted. This Opichick's moving on.
    Lauri
    Cookiemonger


    The Original GSP Groupie

  3. #23
    /me sighs

    Similarly, I wasn't going to post again. But I will, one last, sad time.

    I understand everything you have said, without confusion or question. However, you seem to be refusing to see what we are saying.

    I can only assume you still do not get it. Or you do, but don't want to. Whatever, I'm tired of repeating the point(s).

    Rest assured, I at least will not involve you personally, nor the Mercury Dragons which you seem to represent and speak for at some high level, or in-fact the Council of Ares in anything again.

    SPARTA at least, and probably OTSEC, will simply move on and find other clan opponents, ones who do not mind being 'opposition', with all that it entails. And yes, that includes in-character lies and propaganda.

    And that's sad. I don't want to blow our own trumpet here, but the CoA only reformed because Redruum pulled you all back together. He did that because he & CAS got invited along to a SPARTA (& OTSEC) vs. NLF 'freeform non-consensual RP' event in Borealis, after which he told me something OOC along the lines of, "Wow that was cool, I had no idea you guys were so organised and good to freeform RP with, this has inspired me to reform the CoA now..." Okay, so he didn't sound that corny , but that's what he basically said. (respect out to you Red, if you're reading this)


    I will leave you with one final point though. When you stand on a wall in the middle of a battlefield, people shoot at you, metaphorically speaking.

    Take me for example. People shoot at Bone all the time, in the Rompa Bar, out and about, on the forums, because I play him as an objectionable, oppressive, hardline corporate type. He's a great person to hate, and as such, people hate him, and they RP up to that. Being slightly (in)famous for this, it naturally attracts the idiots too, and they come with the OOC/juvenile/immature grief about things that boggle me, but that also goes with the territory. By the way I RP, and participate in the RP community, both on the forums and in the game, and even in the main storyline via the news pages, I am effectively jumping up and down on that wall shouting, "Come shoot at me, shoot at me."

    It's a choice I make. Participating in the game at this 'high level' of infamy means I have to "accept the rough with the smooth", I believe is the saying.

    If you, or MD or CoA want a quiet shielded life, you shouldn't invite yourselves into the main storyline by printing stuff all over the news all the time. Because at some point, as has just happened, people will RP into your story. As we did. You're currently jumping up and down on the wall asking to be shot at. You shouldn't complain when it happens.

    I'm sorry that us RPing lies about you IC has upset you OOC.

    Your upset doesn't make sense to me, I can't connect them personally. I keep putting myself in your shoes and thinking on it, and each time come up with, "Hey, but people make up untrue stuff about me all the time... hey, some of it is even OOC crap, so why do I not get upset about it, and yet she is?"

    I don't know the answer, and I'm not going to guess at it anymore.

    As I said. Rest assured, I at least will not involve you, Mercury Dragons, or the Council of Ares in anything ever again.

    Hey, I'm sad you can't take people RPing about you behind your back without your full knowledge and explicit permission. Nothing OOC mind, just IC stuff. But that's just the way it goes it seems.

    I won't speak for OTSEC, but SPARTA at least is a freeform RP org. We don't grief people OOC, but we do sometimes walk the edge of the razor in what we do and what we say IC. It's the way we are, and was recently reposted here SPARTA : Clearing up the confusion (again), to highlight the Gestapo feel to that which we do IC.

    Even though this was an OTSEC event, the way we (SPARTA) are doesn't seem compatible with the way you are, and by 'you' I mean the Mercury Dragons because you seem to be speaking for the whole org. When I have a few free moments, I'll take all the MD stuff off our website, won't talk about you IC, nor your newsworthy events, and won't bother you or your precious RPing again, and leave you alone to your cyborgs, Dust Brigade, and org-sweeping-plagues.

    We'll just get on with our own shiz with other peoples.


    In a nutshell, like so many player-situations on AO over the past couple of months, this has ended up not being worth the hassle it turned out to be.

    I thought, and I know the other senior OTSEC people did too, that this whole turn of events added buckets of depth and flavour to the conflict. Not so the case it seems.

    Yet another part of the RP community gets killed off by some people's failure to understand the IC/OOC divide, or people being control freaks.

    I keep saying "I give up" recently. I'm not just saying it. I mean it. I find myself sitting waiting for the shuttle that will take me to "Once upon a time, in a galaxy far far away...", and it increasingly can't come quick enough.

    Sure there will be just as many problems there, and hey, worse problems likely. But they will be different problems. And different annoying painful people.

    Ack. This has turned into Bone-rantage. Bitter? Yep. Seems I am now.

    Heh, I lasted 18 months before it set in anyway.


    Garret "Bonefish" Silvestrini
    Director - SPARTA
    Chairman of the Omni-Tek Security Council

    Founding Member of the Omni-Tek Security Council (OTSEC)

    The Omni-Tek Security Council is dedicated to ensuring the company’s security and interests against all threats, coordinating any action deemed necessary to protect corporate assets and personnel.


    garret.silvestrini@ot-sparta.org | www.ot-sparta.org
    Last edited by Bonefish; Nov 27th, 2002 at 03:44:33.

  4. #24
    Originally posted by Bonefish
    I keep saying "I give up" recently. I'm not just saying it. I mean it. I find myself sitting waiting for the shuttle that will take me to "Once upon a time, in a galaxy far far away...", and it increasingly can't come quick enough.
    [ooc: Hey, if you're leaving(along with everyone else) I've been pondering on not getting left behind. Maybe become a Bothan politician or a blaster designer of some kind. Maybe we can form something a bit more coherient than this sorry mess.]
    Charles 'Kithrak' Houston - Equipment
    Administrator, Omni-Admin
    Bringing the politics of Rubi-Ka to life!

    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster....when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..." -Friedrich Nietzsche-

    "By denying support to the possibility of peace, the Council of Truth is guranteeing an outcome of war."-Administrator Houston-

  5. #25
    Hey buddy. A friendly face!

    "Maybe we can form something a bit more coherient than this sorry mess."

    Things are more progressed in that line than they would at first seem. Grab me when you see me online next, and I'll tell you all about a brave new world...


    Garret "Bonefish" Silvestrini
    Director - SPARTA
    Chairman of the Omni-Tek Security Council

    Founding Member of the Omni-Tek Security Council (OTSEC)

    The Omni-Tek Security Council is dedicated to ensuring the company’s security and interests against all threats, coordinating any action deemed necessary to protect corporate assets and personnel.


    garret.silvestrini@ot-sparta.org | www.ot-sparta.org

  6. #26
    (Begin OOC

    My 2 cents.

    With the greatest respect to you Daimoness, I think I tend to agree with Bone and Kithrak here. I took the OTSEC post as propaganda, as something that Omni RPers would conjure up during the course of their RPing. It did not strike me as foul play.

    More to the point, I think that we--all of us--tacitly consent to this sort of scheming--it is the nature of the RP in this particular drama of warfare, conspiracy, and violence. I can understand how the OTSEC post riles you IC, how that devious outlandish gutter-snifing Omni propaganda (rofl) generates the drama here. For it makes all the hard work that CoA and CAS and MD have done to try to generate good will and unity among Clanners all the more harder. But this is exactly what Omni RPers are attempting to do, and it accords to my mind with the rules of the drama. It certainly riled me up haha.

    In any event, in this game it seems we have taken sides for the RP fun of it all. We have created orgs for the RP fun of it all. And in the so doing, to my mind, we have agreed to participate in the drama and machinations of those RPing the orgs, in this case, the enemy orgs--without prior permissions by those RPers to participate in someone else's stories. For it is everyone's story. We have all consented. We have thrust the CoA into the storyline, it is therefore cannon fodder for any who take an interest--an RP interest--in the storyline, to my mind.

    Requiring permission OOC by enemy orgs and players for actions taken IC would seem to undermine the dramatic elements of the RP--wherein events unfold unexpectedly, spontaneously, sometimes ridiculously, and often deviously.

    OTSEC's post was to me an invitation to RP at the propaganda level. I took it as good clean fun. (Slimy buggards though THEY are. Rofl.)

    End OCC)
    Last edited by Kungwho; Nov 27th, 2002 at 08:40:18.
    Kungwho Buddha-Bellied MA
    Zapsta Notum-Plump NT
    Awdd Keepster Gimpster

  7. #27
    Benjacrat & Kungwho, thanks for understanding from your side of the fence.


    Garret "Bonefish" Silvestrini
    Director - SPARTA
    Chairman of the Omni-Tek Security Council

    Founding Member of the Omni-Tek Security Council (OTSEC)

    The Omni-Tek Security Council is dedicated to ensuring the company’s security and interests against all threats, coordinating any action deemed necessary to protect corporate assets and personnel.


    garret.silvestrini@ot-sparta.org | www.ot-sparta.org

  8. #28
    OOC:
    (( All of this is great... and I think it simply caught Dai off gaurd as
    it did a lot of others.. Good move propaganda wise on OTSEC's
    part.. CoA MD CAS have it extremely hard with Moderate Clanners
    as myself (god knows how much grief I've caused CoA in the past
    with my post :> ) let alone Omni planting information or should I
    say mis-information regarding the CoA.. The great thing is that I
    see what OTSEC did with their PR as a double edged sword and
    they may have cut themselves with it this time.. Seems yes they
    got the knee jerk reaction and defensive posture from CoA, but I
    think they have also, at least in my eyes, brought some Unity to
    the Clans and it has even drawn some approval from various
    Neutrals which is a first.. )) /end OOC

    Tsk tsk tsk...

    Bravo OTSEC *claps her hands*
    Seems you have managed to disassociate any creditbility Kithrak
    has managed to accomplish with the more moderate Clans with
    your latest Propaganda stunt. I must commend you though. You
    alone will be credited with uniting the clans further. Something
    even we as clanners were failing to do ourselves.

    *smirks* as she re-reads "OTSEC Fables"
    Even more amazing is the fact that even Neutrals are less opposed to the CoA thanks to your brilliant stroke of genius.

    With the Clans uniting due to this and some Neutrals supporting
    the efforts of CoA it seems Omni-Tek and OTSEC will have there
    hands full with not only a well equipped hell bent group of
    psychopaths ( the Sentinels ) but also a more unified CoA and family of clans willing to back them.

    *Sits back while OTSEC has their 15 minutes*
    How long do you think the other clans will sit back and watch
    Omni pull strings before they act?

    Tick tock tick tock.. seems not much longer *Smiles deviently*

    Long Live the Clans..

    Rmember... Freedom is not Free!!!
    ~*~ Nanoprincess ~*~
    Katelin Cyani Kerans

  9. #29
    Good Morning,

    a new day has shed his light and I have cooled down by now.

    Bonefish, Kithrak & all the others, I do not want to stop cold your way of roleplaying, it's just that my background and my way of playing up to now was a completely different one that's why I jumped like I did.

    You are right - OTSEC and CoA are perhaps the biggest player-run orgs in this game and as both are RP it would be stupid to not RP together. I have come to understand your position and though I can't say that's really the way I play I am sure we can find some common ground. In fact, that's all I'm asking for - let's find a solution to this, one we can all agree to, and we will all win out of the situation.

    How about we try to get together in the game and have an OOC talk about it. No, I do not mean the "RK-1 Roleplaying Convention" that might or might not bring anything worth noting (I tried that on RK-2 twice and after that, left and spent my time there in silent contemplation and finally decided to start over on RK-1). Just a small gathering, this might defuse the discussion here and perhaps lead to a fruitful end.

    Oh, and it certainly helps if you are playing with people you know at least a bit OOC.

    On a totally different line, if you plan to seek new pastures in other galaxies, just follow this link http://swg-de.emr.net/fun.php and and check the 4 episodes of LEWT WARZ. This will perhaps raise your moods as it did with me (I should have thought about this yesterday) and give you a hint at things to come ... in a galay, wherever it may be.
    Corrine Daimoness Wright
    - Veteran of Apocalypse
    - General of the Mercury Dragons (ret.)
    - Member of the Grumpy Old Crat Bunch

    If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. - Samuel Adams

  10. #30
    OOC

    *wonders how she can show her immense disappointment and frustration without hurting anyone's feelings*

    *realizes she cant*

    Bumbaclot.
    Sulema Keaorata Fahrni

    You dont need eyes to see, you need vision

  11. #31
    ooc) Here's my opinion, more or less, on this...

    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...threadid=74791

    But I will add, that in this case, a lot of people and several organizations went to a lot of trouble to build a roleplay scenario, and to hold multi-org events. It's really a shame to see people turn this into an ooc vs. ic griefing session, when you could have jumped in and participated in something big.

    I think a really nifty clan-sided approach might have been to play along, in-character, but with a twist. Perhaps that stockpile wasn't CoA, but part of a set-up, a plant, by oh, I don't know, what about the ICC? They'd stand to gain if OT and the clan sides were at one another's throats. Or perhaps the Sentinels somehow did some creative hacking so the weapons would be traced back to CoA, effectively covering their tracks.

    Or make up something, but I don't think 'propaganda' cuts it. That just sounds plain lazy. I know y'all can do better than that.

    kbg
    "Dixie" - Young adventurer, anthropologist, marketing rep for R.U.R.

    Kiyoko "Barlau" Grebel - Martial Artist, PR Director, Law Society of Rubi-Ka

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