You Are Joking Right!!??!

[DaveDread]

Helsinki, the reason there's a lot of MA changes is that MA's do well in PvM and catastrophically bad in PvP.

With Notum Wars, there will be plenty of times you need to PvP and frankly, I will level an alt as fast as possible, because there is nothing I can do to hurt someone in PvP after 14.6.

The reason is twofold: Crit reduction and new root system.

The crit reduction is what hurt MA's the most. We have fists and MA weapons that we "should" use. All of them are crit reliant. Think of MA fists as slower, lower damage versions of Ithaca shotguns (without aimed shot of course). This means MA damage output (which is good in PvM) is extremely low in PvP and we cant do nothing about it. I can cap, triple implant, wear every MA boosting item in the game and still be outdamaged by every profession in PvP.

Personally, I'm unable to do more damage to an enforcer then his reflect does to me in 14.6. A doc's DoT's will outdamage a MA slapping the doc in the face. And we can't do anything about it.

Normal fist hits are about 150-200 in PvP. Oh, a crit! that does appx 1000-1200 damage (not including RRFE here). All other professions have the choice of equipping a weapon that isn't crit reliant, take the Manex as an example... It is capable of 1k damage non crit with specials recycling a lot faster then, say Brawl.

That MA's got a new special attack so we can break roots and run away for 10 seconds every 5 minutes isn't overpowered. Rather the opposite. It requires us to raise a skill that does nothing else. That isn't the problem thou, the main problem is damage output.

Start a new char, look at the description of the Martial Artist.
Then log on your main and ask a MA to duel you. You will be amazed by the lack of damage he's throwing at you.

[___________Chlamydia]

Well having only leveled an MA to level 72 I cannot say what works and doesnt work in PvP for the class.

What I do know is as an MA you have a LOT of options, and to me it seems like some MAs (why I said MAs like Internalfire) cant seem to understand that there needs to be balance, that you should have to spend IP to get ability, it should not all be rolled up into one requirement.

Want to bust a root? raise Riposite and gain the ability. Dont think its worth it? then be just like one of the 6 or so other classes that cannot bust it either. and learn to live without.

MAs asked for this, but like a genie and his wishes probably were not as specific in said asking as they should have been. FC devs looked at the request (which is more than they even do for soldiers) and decided "ok, we will give this to em, but at a cost"

This is called "fairness".

I understand MA got hit with the nerf stick, and tho you been hit with it before the crit nerf is the first real "whack" the class has felt, maybe we will see a few MAs at the "nerfed by funcom anonomous" meetings now.

But it just galls me that Funcom makes a ability, and in writing it doesnt seem THAT bad (cant say for sure until we see the Riposite reqs on it), and before anyone can even see if its effective or not some of you guys start ripping into it.

The class just seems spoiled, and it frustrates me to no end (well, as much as a video game can frusrate me anyways ) that you behave as such when love is given to you.

Meanwhile the Soldier class (and others) are STILL waiting on balance issues.

[Whitesand]

Originally posted by JagdTyger
Adv's rooted but noone cares about us anyways hehe


Jagdtyger

Quoted from another thread:


Adventurer

The adventurers have received a new root/snare resist line.

So np for advs.

[CheeseNips]

Originally posted by Whitesand


Quoted from another thread:


Adventurer

The adventurers have received a new root/snare resist line.

So np for advs.

it blocks 1 root.

after that they are rootable just like anyone else

[DaveDread]

Just a little note here... an unloved soldier can (and will) rip a uberloved MA to shreds without any effort. It doesnt matter how many special items the MA gets, nor how he spends his IP. A MA is at the bottom of the PvP foodchain and that hurts like hell.

The best way for a MA to have a chance in PvP is to pick up the same ranged weapons that all other professions use. That's what we're whining about.

[___________JagdTyger]

Whitesand I saw that in the pvp.txt thing that was floating around, cant remember where the link was, and also in it was no mention of agents I believe. Now in the prelim notes it mentions agents getting a nano line, and no mention of advs, so im wondering if there was a typo somewhere, or that pvp.txt is false since I dunno where its original source is from.

If ya have any info lemme know

Jagdtyger

[_____________DrVixen]

Helsinki said:

"The [MA] class just seems spoiled, and it frustrates me to no end...that you behave as such when love is given to you. Meanwhile the Soldier class (and others) are STILL waiting on balance issues.

The problem with your argument, Helsinki, is that it was FunCom that just recently broke us in the first place.

Prior to 14.6, we had some problems, but at least we had a *chance* in PvP. We had the same kinds of recommendations for minor tweaking that most "fairly balanced" classes did. Against well-played rooting classes we had pretty much no chance...and against other solely damage-oriented classes like the Enforcer, we had a pretty even chance of success. It WAS balanced. MAs are first-and-foremost a damage class. We don't have pets, roots, snares, debuffs, or nanos that do much of anything except augment our ability to stay in the fight and do more damage with our fists. We fight. We heal a little. We fight some more.

But now, thanks to 14.6, we are *thoroughly broken* in PvP. So please don't be so surprised that those of us with high level MAs are rather shocked and upset by this.

That soldiers and others haven't gotten their much needed attention from FunCom is a wholly separate issue, and is a straw man argument...which as Davedread points out, conveniently overlooks the fact that the "unbalanced" soldier you refer to will completely destroy an MA in PvP.

- DrVixen

[CheeseNips]

Originally posted by DaveDread
Just a little note here... an unloved soldier can (and will) rip a uberloved MA to shreds without any effort. It doesnt matter how many special items the MA gets, nor how he spends his IP. A MA is at the bottom of the PvP foodchain and that hurts like hell.

The best way for a MA to have a chance in PvP is to pick up the same ranged weapons that all other professions use. That's what we're whining about.

.....


BAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

so you think an eng and a crat can beat you?

[______________Menlas]

Originally posted by Menlas

Mmmh the MAs are not the worse...at least they have something against roots/snares.

Think to Adv and Enforcer... so rooted = dead ? Despite i'm a root/snare class, i don't see the point here...

Originally posted by Azzazzimon


LOL you even play the game?

Enforcers...getting rooted...LOL

Yes i made a mistake, i forgot that... but is there any need to be so unpleasant ?

[OddLogic]

We're just really frustrated atm.

I'm sure azzazzigimp didn't mean to be unpleasant.
For a clanner, he isn't *that* bad actually.....normally

[Skymarshal]

had to say it but Achmed20 is n00b

[________________Alli]

Originally posted by Azzazzimon


Maybe lvl 200 MA without riposte?

I would say it's MAYBE 1 lvl 200 MA WITH riposte, adventuring is more useful than riposte.

and you're looking at the ONE ma in this game that has maxed riposte LMAO. i did it about a week ago to see just how useless it is before my account expires.

gave this some thought though, if riposte is the ONLY skill needed for this new attack, that actually works in our favor because we can't be debuffed out of using it

/me thinks maybe gaute did do some thinking on this.

hopefully, it will dispell the doc's, traders and mp's debuffs too.

[________________Alli]

Originally posted by calvara


.....


BAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

so you think an eng and a crat can beat you?

yes, but not just any crat or engi. they still have to have some experience in pvp. nobody can just walk out there and from the moment they start, just kill anyone they want because that class is gimped.

it's pretty sad, but most of the people i see crying for nerfs to other profs for pvp, i have never even seen in a pvp zone. maybe that's because they don't pvp, and so they don't know what the hell they're doing.

[Sorzella]

Originally posted by Helsinki
realize that you guys are never going to be, nor should you ever be the "paper" "rock" and "scissors" of every conflict.

Heh, like the Trader?

[_____________DrVixen]

Crats have pets to do damage, plus they can wield a weapon like every other "support" class. And now that mezzes will act as an init debuff in PvP, I would think a high level crat with area mezz would be AWFULLY handy in team PvP.

Engies have big bots to do damage, plus they can wield a weapon like every other "support" class. And now that engies and crats can remove roots from their pets, they will be far more effective in PvP. And engies have awesome trade skills, with all of them being greenish (cost <= 1.6) except for psychology. And crats have that covered.

Again, MAs have no pets, no trade skills, no debuffs, no root nanos, no snare nanos, no extra health buffs or reflect shields or area of effect DD nukes, etc. According to the game's designer, if they manage to get in range they are "supposed" to deal more damage over time than any other class. MAs are only about dealing fast damage.

Or at least they used to be.

- DrVixen

P.S. Just to nip any ignorant follow-up posts in the bud: This is obviously about PvP only...the recent nerf(s) had no impact on PvM, where MAs still excel. But many of us levelled up our MAs with an eye towards the whole PvP conflict thing this game is supposedly based around. And now we're kinda screwed, and just in time for Notum Wars.

[Internalfireh]

Helsinki your attitude stinks and you obviosuly have not much knowledge about PvPing an Ma.

You think im a whiner and dont like to spend IP?

I have had to just Dump IP to Cap out my bow at 575. WIth the Experise that give me near 600 (with the ability boosts Bow depends on)

I have AS raised and it is around 500 buffed wioth expertise largely due to my Vision Enhancers that aadds about 250.

I have just spent alot of IP in treatment for some ql 200 imps, which give me 896 slef buffed MA skill and 765ish buffed bow skill.

i have to raise parry for FoL whihc more often than not is my saving grace in pvp to last that extra say 15 seconds?

I have to raise all 3 of my Evades, MA, Brawl and Dimache.

I max Str/Stam/agil and raise Int and psy a bit for Nano Pool and Nano Skills.

I have to raise SI, BM, PM and TS.

First Aid is raised but not alot, just enough for me to use my ql 150ish FoL (about 260 First Aid)

I raise Comp Lit a fair amount.

No your telling me i dont like spending IP. I am skill capped atm (im level 131) and i find it impossible to raise 2 or 3 of my mina Nano skills before running out of IP. Do you really expect me to raise Riposte for 1 thing ? It doesnt look that great TBH anyway.

But i will probably end up raising to help give me some sort of chance in PvP. If i do a Aimed Shot, Brawl, Bop/BwT, DImache Alpha i may have some sort of chance against and Enf for example or another kind of equally matched profession. Aginst a rooter i probaly will be out of ranged and stuck for BoP/BwT, Dimache, Brawl after my Aimed Shot.

I cant afford to raise what i need for PvP never mind complain about having to spend IP. IN the patch notes it said about the new MA move breaking roots/snares of the same quality (and lower im guessing). With implants and expertise how much skill does a rooting class have for thier roots, im gueesing they can cast a Root possibly 20-30 ql above them (im not sure here) even if it was just 10 ql's above em youll get my point in a sec. Now compare that with how much in the useless skill Riposte i am going to need ot break it at equal qualitys of Root>New Ma Atatck.

Im thinking im going to need 500+ Riposte to have a ql ma move good enough to break such roots. Thats expensive IP wise and will requuire me to lvl further for the required IP. I want ot PvP and have some fun IM sick of lvling.

-Internalfire