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Thread: 14.7.1 : Game system changes

  1. #61
    Originally posted by Cz
    Also...
    • Open PvP limit (free-for-all level) moved to level 150.


    Stupid, should be 125.
    President of Ali Baba and the 40 thieves

    Garzu 193 Day 1 NT & Garzuperman My Fixer 4 fun since NTs are broken

    GA3/4 DESPERATELY NEEDED!!

  2. #62

    Duh?!

    Geez, why are you *****ing about the 1200+ Init.? Someone explain it to me. It's just a SOFT CAP. What does that mean? It just means that you CAN theoretically increase that stat higher than 1200, but WHY would you, considering the effects are so minimal. Most things in life are hit with the idea of diminishing returns. There's only so much you can improve yourself by until you reach a plateu. Yes you can keep increasing your Inits beyond 1200, but after 1200 the increases won't matter much. That's all there is to it. Stop raising your Init. Just go ahead and raise something else. It's not that hard, geez.

    Same thing with the AC theory...once you go past a certain point with AC, it won't really matter how much you raise it by anymore. The effects are decreased.

    As for the whole Nano Init. thing, geez, c'mon...they're fixing weapon-recharge, not Nano recharge. Why on god's earth would nano recharge need to be fixed? "Hey, let's go ahead and insta-cast everything! Yay!" Dude, I'm a Doctor, and I must say that if anyone would love to have Nano recharge rates lowered, I'm sure I would. HOwever, I realize that Nano Recharge is the only way to make Nanos fair. Can you imagine Complete Heal with no recharge time? Can you imagine Alpha and Omega with no recharge time? Would you want that? Would anyone want that? I'd want that, cuz then I'd be "god-on-Rubi-Ka"...but, I doubt anyone else would.

    Folks, take a step back and look at the bigger picture before you start your rampant whines and complaints. Man, I'm an ex-Everquest player, and we were never as spoiled as you (we?) are. Verant to EQ was like a mythical god in the skies, rainning down nerfs without any sort of care for what players wanted. Here, the developers are like wimpy puppies doing whatever the peeps who scream the loudest tell them to. Get over it. Stop the whines and complaints and maybe the developers of this game will go ahead and implement some good stuff instead of having to jump around at trying to make X, Y, and Z professions happy. The game is great as it is. Just let the developers take the game where they want it to go. If you feel the need to complain, just go get another game. If this isn't the game you like, then why are you bothering with it? Seriously...geez...

    Peace,
    Souldoctah

  3. #63

    So far...

    Ya know, I'd even go so far as to say "Yay!" to FC for "nerfing" stuff. Good. Great. Folks just want an easy way of doing things. There are issues that really need to be addressed, but I think a lot of folks post just for the sake of *****ing about something. They want something easier. They don't want to think.

    Soldiers just got a Nano to block CHeal. You know what I say? GREAT!!! More strategy!!! I'm gonna have to think now!!! I can't CHeal Billy Bob the Enforcer, who's taking mad hits, so I'm gonna have to maybe Stim his ass, or load up a second nuke on my action bar....God Forbid I have to actually go into my Programs menu and use another heal!!"

    Docs just got nanos to block Trader debuffs. You know what I say? "Why??!?!?! Sure, Traders are pretty bad-ass, but I don't need my life made so much easier...I'll find a way...this isn't somethign that's broken!! Go give Enforcers more taunting capabilities!!!"

    I'm looking at the big picture. I like all the "nerfs". I like to see the game developers actually controlling THEIR game, instead of bowing down to punk whiners. (Of course, this seems stupid, considering that most of the changes are being made BECAUSE of punk whiners...I'd still like to see some changes that go totally against what players want...I hate this no-backbone ***** stuff.)

    Peace,
    Souldoctah

    PS. I want an afro pick. I'll trade you my Keelarr Sunglasses. Please? Thanks.

  4. #64

    Re: pvp level range

    Originally posted by Servivious
    I think the shift 150 rocks. The only reason I can see for not liking it is if you enjoy ganking TL3 chars at TL6.

    It's gonna make some big changes to NW pvp, but hey

    Also remember - team of multi-level chhars can still fight across the level ranges, and um, inst NW all about team PvP, not duels?
    No...Ask most pvp'ers that are high level we have nothing personally to gain from killing someone grey to us but there is reasons. I'm sick of people in 2ho automatically labelling you a 'ganker' when you shoot them on sight, that terminology is WAY out of line these days and shouldn't be used in this game anymore outside of the arena. Not everyone pvp's or does this just to be a pain in the ass.

    One might be that 'its fun,' well i have to admit there is some comedy involved when you root a yalm of someone who came in 'just to watch' that screws up your tab button worse than a pet does and then *****es at you for 'ganking' them in a fully political zone where war takes place. There is no spectators in 2ho and there are reasons behind this. Example? level 2's from omni side coming to clan areas while we have them zoned and recovering from our attack come up to us and sit down at our location transmitting the levels, profs, names, and numbers of the opposing force to omnis via OT OOC or their warbot channel. We're not going to let some level 89 sit there and say he's 'watching' because that puts us at risk. Some clanners try and make level 2's to counter this effort, but of course they are then met with the need to beacon warp characters and the NPC guards roaming around a pvp zone (wtf?) one-shot kill them.

    Then there is a more logical one. If any of you have gone to 2ho you will know that level 125s and 149s etc STILL need to be killed...If there is 6 guys of various professions and a 149 soldier and that is their only soldier, id rather not have him give them reflect buffs be it 10% from a level 75 or 30% by a 149. There are targets of various levels in 2ho. Now all that happens is both sides will bring support professions and theyll battle and then just recieve heals from higher levels zoning out in grace period.

    Perhaps when notum wars comes out none of this will be a problem anymore but i'll have to wait and see until then.

    "Never seen an official statement that FC will increase the level to 250"

    True, but there is an advent bracer that says 'title level 7.' that is a hint or two, and i think if they are raising the level limit i will have less of a problem with this rule. It just seems stupid that a level 149 will come in with a level 200 that is about to fight a level 200, its like golfer and caddy, a 'heal *****' so to speak that a level 200 will not be able to attack....

    My solution to all this is to have people that are teamed attackable by all levels...This would stop heal wenches when towers comes along...Or, funcom could just get some brains one of these days and remove missions from MMD and 2ho.
    "A man is someone who has a cause he's willing to fight for and has a woman in his life he'll do anything to protect."
    -SDI Ssgt. Port, USMC, MCRD Parris Island S.C.

    Experienced Stars "Stromm" Nstripes - Retired

    Fun stuff: 1 2 3 4 (NEW!!)

  5. #65
    Doh! I just had to open my big mouth a while back and mention how a masterless pet does 100% damage in pvp. *sigh* the curse of being an honest guy :/
    Nanomage: The OTHER other white meat

  6. #66
    Originally posted by Dragonsphere
    So basicly we nuke slower (yes I got 1200+ nano init) and people with guns shoot faster (faster recharge)?

    Strange, I thought you wanted a balance here.

    Make Nano Init affect recharge aswell.

    I havent seen this in action yet but it sounds strange to me.
    Havent seen an answer to this yet...

  7. #67
    Originally posted by Dragonsphere
    So basicly we nuke slower (yes I got 1200+ nano init) and people with guns shoot faster (faster recharge)?

    Strange, I thought you wanted a balance here.

    Make Nano Init affect recharge aswell.
    Are you kidding? Then you wouldn't want to fight a Doctor or any other healing profession -- trust me.

  8. #68
    the new pvp limit is awesome i think, Only ppl who has anything against this is the level 200 who ganks the lvl 75 ppl for fun.

    lam0rs

  9. #69

    Ouch FC!!!

    pvp limit at 150 is too high!!

    125 is much more in line with where people fight and who is teaming with who in Camelot.

    Healers being untouchable at lvl 149 (with mochs running they can do BIG heals) is insane.

    The init change hits everyone who uses slow weapons. Enf soldier and Manex fixers will feel this badly, but since soldiers are dependant on damage output alone we will get smacked by this again, if we choose slower type weapons. Manex has now become useless to a soldier....

    To those who cry about lvl 75`s being killed by lvl 200`s.... I havent seen that happen very often, most lvl 200 players care more about their reputation than some fight in the arena.

    I agree the limit should be upped, but 125 is much more appropriate.
    Legion
    Beartwo

    and a whole litter of bearcubs ...

    "Only the dead have seen the end of war." -- Plato
    "You see me now, a soldier, of a 1000 psychic wars...." -- Blue Oyster Cult

  10. #70
    Gotta agree with everyone who's posting about this proposed level 150 free-for-all limit - it's too high.

    I'll also agree that level 75 free-for-all limit was too low.

    If there is only going to be two brackets for PvP, then the free-for-all limit should be at level 125.

    This is where most people cap their green skills, and can start to invest IP in the skills that are essential to remain competitive in PvP that they have sacrificed prior to capping their key skills due to a lack of spare IP.

    Putting the free-for-all cap at level 150 is the wrong decision.

    Cz, how have the Dev team arrived at this decision? I'd be interested to know.

    Set the free-for-all level cap to level 125.

    Cheers,
    Org

  11. #71

    PvP

    Starting open PvP at level 150 is much much better than at level 75. Because of the skill cap level 100 isn't much different from level 75 and you don't really stand any more chance against a level 200 of any profession. By level 125 though you've got most of your profession's key abilities and can have a decent amount in evades, nano resist and other key PvP skills.

    150 is great, 125 would be better, but either way it is a wonderful change to PvP to make it more fair and balanced and not just a ganking fest.
    Clan Elder of The Pilgrims

  12. #72
    Hilarious to read all the people talk about 149 docs being untouchable by everyone. They wont you need to be lvl 200 to not being able to attack that doc. A 180 player can attack a 130ish player and so on, i dont get the problem.

  13. #73

    Unhappy Would be nice

    Originally posted by Beartwo
    [B]pvp limit at 150 is too high!!

    125 is much more in line with where people fight and who is teaming with who in Camelot.
    *** Following is how I understand the current PvP system. If you know this to be false, please correct me.***

    1) I am fairly sure that if you are in a team and any member of your team initiate PvP, then every member of your team can be attacked regardless of the level.

    2) if you are outside of the level range, you cannot be attacked. However, if you attack/debuff someone, they can retaliate and defend themself.


    3) If you heal someone who is in combat, then whoever was fighting that person CAN attack you (I am not so sure of this one as this kinda hardly happen in duel. someone please varify this?)

    =================================

    Originally posted by Beartwo
    [B]pvp limit at 150 is too high!!

    To those who cry about lvl 75`s being killed by lvl 200`s.... I havent seen that happen very often, most lvl 200 players care more about their reputation than some fight in the arena.
    You are truely correct. MOST people who are engaged in PvP are mature enough to not go around ganking grey.

    But there are certainly enough people out there who will thrive on misery of others. Who will gank grey for sheer fun of how much it piss that grey player. It is probably this very reason that 100% of playfield is "free for all"

    For FC or any to make a law so that we all "behave" is shame, but unfortunately needed.

    Those who are mature enough wouldn't be effected by this much. They never have tnough of attacking grey, why are not going to start mjust because FC said they can't.

    IF same immature people who gank grey somehow exploit this to keep their character at 149 to ruin the PvP, then people at FC can either all jump off the building, or address that problem on the next patch or one following.

    Sure it sucks to think that FC is treating me like a child, but I would be MORE concerned to think they wouldn't control some of these "child" who I've seen around.

  14. #74
    using
    PHP Code:
    for ($i=1;$i<=200;$i++)
    {
        
    $low=trunc($i/1.3);
        
    $high=trunc($i*1.3);
        if (
    $low<1)        
            
    $low=1;
        if (
    $high>200)        
            
    $high=200;
        if (
    $low>150)        
            
    $low=150;
        if (
    $i>=150)
            
    $high=200;
        echo 
    "level $i can pvp with $low to $high\n";

    Code:
    level 1 can pvp with 1 to 1
    level 2 can pvp with 1 to 2
    level 3 can pvp with 2 to 3
    level 4 can pvp with 3 to 5
    level 5 can pvp with 3 to 6
    level 6 can pvp with 4 to 7
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    original author of Helpbot

  15. #75
    Originally posted by Beaker
    using
    PHP Code:
    for ($i=1;$i<=200;$i++)
    {
        
    $low=trunc($i/1.3);
        
    $high=trunc($i*1.3);
        if (
    $low<1)        
            
    $low=1;
        if (
    $high>200)        
            
    $high=200;
        if (
    $low>150)        
            
    $low=150;
        if (
    $i>=150)
            
    $high=200;
        echo 
    "level $i can pvp with $low to $high\n";

    Code:
    level 1 can pvp with 1 to 1
    level 2 can pvp with 1 to 2
    level 3 can pvp with 2 to 3
    level 4 can pvp with 3 to 5
    level 5 can pvp with 3 to 6
    level 6 can pvp with 4 to 7
    level 7 can pvp with 5 to 9
    level 8 can pvp with 6 to 10
    level 9 can pvp with 6 to 11
    level 10 can pvp with 7 to 13
    level 11 can pvp with 8 to 14
    level 12 can pvp with 9 to 15
    level 13 can pvp with 10 to 16
    level 14 can pvp with 10 to 18
    level 15 can pvp with 11 to 19
    level 16 can pvp with 12 to 20
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    level 20 can pvp with 15 to 26
    level 21 can pvp with 16 to 27
    level 22 can pvp with 16 to 28
    level 23 can pvp with 17 to 29
    level 24 can pvp with 18 to 31
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    level 27 can pvp with 20 to 35
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    level 150 can pvp with 115 to 200
    level 151 can pvp with 116 to 200
    level 152 can pvp with 116 to 200
    level 153 can pvp with 117 to 200
    level 154 can pvp with 118 to 200
    level 155 can pvp with 119 to 200
    level 156 can pvp with 120 to 200
    level 157 can pvp with 120 to 200
    level 158 can pvp with 121 to 200
    level 159 can pvp with 122 to 200
    level 160 can pvp with 123 to 200
    level 161 can pvp with 123 to 200
    level 162 can pvp with 124 to 200
    level 163 can pvp with 125 to 200
    level 164 can pvp with 126 to 200
    level 165 can pvp with 126 to 200
    level 166 can pvp with 127 to 200
    level 167 can pvp with 128 to 200
    level 168 can pvp with 129 to 200
    level 169 can pvp with 130 to 200
    level 170 can pvp with 130 to 200
    level 171 can pvp with 131 to 200
    level 172 can pvp with 132 to 200
    level 173 can pvp with 133 to 200
    level 174 can pvp with 133 to 200
    level 175 can pvp with 134 to 200
    level 176 can pvp with 135 to 200
    level 177 can pvp with 136 to 200
    level 178 can pvp with 136 to 200
    level 179 can pvp with 137 to 200
    level 180 can pvp with 138 to 200
    level 181 can pvp with 139 to 200
    level 182 can pvp with 140 to 200
    level 183 can pvp with 140 to 200
    level 184 can pvp with 141 to 200
    level 185 can pvp with 142 to 200
    level 186 can pvp with 143 to 200
    level 187 can pvp with 143 to 200
    level 188 can pvp with 144 to 200
    level 189 can pvp with 145 to 200
    level 190 can pvp with 146 to 200
    level 191 can pvp with 146 to 200
    level 192 can pvp with 147 to 200
    level 193 can pvp with 148 to 200
    level 194 can pvp with 149 to 200
    level 195 can pvp with 150 to 200
    level 196 can pvp with 150 to 200
    level 197 can pvp with 150 to 200
    level 198 can pvp with 150 to 200
    level 199 can pvp with 150 to 200
    level 200 can pvp with 150 to 200
    Amen.

    That's what I was gonna try and word out. All of you reacting to the 150+ FFA are OVER-reacting. Same rules but with a level150-200 range now.

    What would happen if a lvl74 right now walks up to a level75 player? Can't the lvl75 fight the 74? Yes.

    Case closed.

    Think people think.
    - Cyrus Cyblade7 Crown
    - General of Redemption

  16. #76
    Bump
    How long will a floating point operation float?

  17. #77

    Thumbs down

    Correct me if I'm wrong here (it's a strong possibility)...

    A level <149 character will be untouchable by a level 150+ character UNLESS they are within the level range to PvP with said 150+ AND the <149 initiates the combat. This is the important bit.

    Off the top of my head, currently a level 74's PvP range is something like 64ish to 85ish, however a level 75+ character can not initiate the combat with the level 74 character even though said character is within the level range.

    Therefore using the same rules, a level 149 character even though within the level range of up to a level 193 character can not be attacked by anyone higher than level 150 unless the 149 initiates. Casting a heal on someone does not constitute being involved in the fight (I'm pretty sure).

    This means a level 149 doctor can stand by his/her faction's tower casting heals on players on their own side and be invulnerable to attack from all the 150+ attackers as long as said doctor is not teamed.

    Bottom line: this sux, and opens up huge possibilities for exploiting the new PvP system.

    Funcom, what do you plan to do about this?

    Cheers,
    Org

  18. #78

    Oh the possibilities are limitless

    Originally posted by Organa
    Correct me if I'm wrong here (it's a strong possibility)...

    This means a level 149 doctor can stand by his/her faction's tower casting heals on players on their own side and be invulnerable to attack from all the 150+ attackers as long as said doctor is not teamed.

    Bottom line: this sux, and opens up huge possibilities for exploiting the new PvP system.

    Funcom, what do you plan to do about this?

    Org
    As you well pointed out, this is POSSIBILITY.

    I am thinking that either

    1) you cannot heal anyone in PvP if they cannot attack you back

    or

    2) Like Debuff/Attack initiated by lower level than the level range, tehy cannot attack you if you are just sitting there doing nothing, but once you start healing, then you are fair game.

    Patch is going in tonight. Until it is in, all this is still only a possibilities.

    Given their past patch performance, I would say you are probably hitting closer to target than I am, but until we find out for sure we can both bet that FunCom is planning on patching it tonight, listen to all the lovely praise we will sing to them, then take an action that will piss of least of us.

  19. #79

    Thumbs up

    I think 150 is a very good cap.
    Why? because i just hate pvp and these huge-**** contests.

    Anyway, FC gonna see now that some profs had to kill TL3 rookies to get Novice, they gonna see which profs really suck, even with their so called fixes or love.

    The funny thing is, how a fistful of guys can feel more skilled in balancing a game than 10.000 players trying every day to find out the best settings on a char?

    Easy, they look at what's too ubber and they nerf it.
    Their problem : when something sucks, they don't see/can't figure/can't understand/do nothing.

    And plz, for 14.8, give us an AE np debuff nano plz.

    haha... wait and see.
    JCarmack.

    (\_/)
    (O.o)
    (> <)

  20. #80
    .
    Last edited by Georg; Nov 22nd, 2002 at 00:30:42.
    Georg 218 doc
    [1809] PT
    Legion
    Web: [http://www.legionhq.org]
    Irc: irc.legionhq.org
    Ts: www.legionhq.org

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