Lets play a game. Traders justify this one.

[Jynne]

Originally posted by MrBunny


Well of course its going to cost them their best nanos. That's just the nature of a debuff. To weaken your opponent while making the trader stronger.

On the same note, critting(debuffing) your opponent by -1000 hp several times in a row is enough to cost them their char's life.

Oh no we should nerf crits! Oh wait.. Funcom already did.

Thanks alot guys.

-50 costs them their best nanos.

-415 costs them their last 100 levels worth of skill advancement.

[stromm]

Originally posted by MrBunny


And from all I've read so far, the majority of the posts do not seem to flow very well with "enhance the balance of the game"

It seems to me most of you are just mad. That is not any basis to nerf a profession.

lol...So the same person posting this horsecrap a few posts above is making a fixer nerf post about getting hit for 1k...once again people haven't heard of reflect. I take no damage complaints seriously for any profession and i will not until RRFE is made self-only. And that will probably be never. It's these idiots who got crits nerfed and now they want damage nerfed even more; among these are mostly healing professions or just plain and simply gimps who can't raise levels to get high level and allocate ip in several fields, cant raise cash to buy items that will give them more dmg/protection etc...or there is the exception of a really underpowered class but imho they have no right to whine about nerfs on others when the root problem is their own profession.

MrBunny hmm...Are you Littlebunny2 by any chance?

Either way, you're a total hypocrite and the best part about it is you can be caught on the exact same page.

(181 fixer's experience)

Now, with nerfmeee's case i was very surprised. I killed this guy once a while back when he was level 109 and didn't have lots of outside buffs and ql 200 implants...i resisted a ton of his nanos with 811 nano resist on 50% agg, a divest landed but no plunder (of course, anyone who says divests are resisted a lot on anyone besides enforcers needs to get the louisville outta their ass) plunders have a 190% resist rate so this didn't land on me.

He leveled a bit and then i saw him again in 2h0. He recieved help from a 198 doctor to kill me and i got shot in my tracks...i gotta say i was embarassed being killed by a 118 trader who did most of the damage (didnt get my cred for some reason) and i sent him a tell saying that he was well-tweaked..And yes i know the person playing the character but there isnt any need to reveal who it is.

I saw him in mmd again last night and i got *totally* owned. in 2ho i couldve killed him if the doc wasn't there but this was just insane. (Note: ALSO to those saying 'you should learn not to gank greys' HE was attacking us on the offensive not us, though we wouldve attacked him given any chance). I was fully defensive at the start, wielding an mcs i got a good burst at the beginning but instantly the plunder and the divest both landed..I was thinking wtf? this never happened before. I've owned 140ish traders before and they were easier even when they had reflect/hp. The fight went on for a bit longer and then he just stopped attacking me when i was at 30%. His health didn't move an inch because my drained gun damage couldn't keep up with HoT he had.

He then pretty much owned 1 198 soldier, 2 200 soldiers, me, highjack, fatcrusher and among many others that night. By today i saw him with apprentice, 2 days ago he was low rookie.

concerning nehte's post well in arena you don't have guards or leets to drain. sometimes i see traders bringing those omni citizens into ent arena to use as a drain ***** but usually clanners or some low level omni noob attacks it and kills it for XP. I can say though that even in 2ho you could drain soldier or someone easy to drain, get attack rating and land plunder. its what traders do to me in 1v1. There are some stupid trader though that use plunder first and screw themselves...but even with low hp, the heal they have, however nerfed, is still good.

My universal opinion on this issue is not one that falls in relation to nerf request ones. I have never been one for nerfs, i have always been open for new things, i've always emailed funcom for a long time for game changes especially for my own profession when we were gimped to no end. I also do not think that stopping people from skill draining is a very good solution since it makes the game less skill based and more level based. And then, same people who want drain nerfed are complaining about level requirements on nanos making AO a 'non-skill related game.'

I do think however something needs to be done about that guard issue. Even if you take out the guard, there will be leets to drain. Yes it sounds silly, but thats the truth. MMD has always been a stupid zone ever since the grid-entrance to it was removed because of the carebears who set up a noisy row that they couldn't do missions there. None of this would be a problem if mmd became a pvp zone again, like it should be, not a 'neutral arena' as a friend of mine says. If you send someone into 25% immediately they wont have all the time in the world to prepare and drain, they will be shot up and killed and that is why traders get killed all the time in 2ho and less in mmd and the arena. Look at mmd; it warps you into a yalmable place, there is an INSURANCE and RECLAIM terminal there, there is a guard to drain, there is a quest mob for the fixer grid quest, there is a mission area, shops(wtf?? lol), a bank, suppression and wall/LOS tricks all over the place...its such a ****ed up zone it shouldnt even be regarded to as a pvp zone. Same goes with 2ho keep mission goers outta there by getting rid of the missions that root to 2ho. Don't nerf pvp because of that bs. But i am getting off subject here.

Drains are powerful **** i mean i admit they are the most annoying nano to me but it still takes time to use and nano resist is still a protection against it when traders don't have a guinea pig with them. You have to cast 1 nano and then another that is resisted commonly at high levels. And look at it this way...soldiers say they suck, and not that im implying they dont need a little extra but they excel in mass pvp zones like camelot and 2HO, not as well in arena (though ive seen some do well there). Enforcers and traders totally own the arena, but in mass pvp zones enforcer is basically a human shield and gunned down easily when the person is forced to run into a wall of players to attack someone...MAs have a little more option with ranged weapons. Traders are always a first kill there, however i suppose the argument that an army of traders vs an army of various profs or any one prof would get owned by traders is a strong one. I don't really go further there, i suppose i have to admit they would be right in this case. But exactly how often do u see 10 traders in 2ho? they are usually in amounts that can be picked off one by one, and thats what bunkers are for.

I still cannot stress more however, that no profession should be able to own another profession 82 levels higher than them. It's just plain wrong. There are other ways to going about solving this than nerfing a whole profession. Take that 'stexer' guy at tir arena for example, hes level 1 and a level 200 cannot kill him 1v1. He played with the damage limiting system and buffs but of course any profession that level is template pretty much so no one can cry nerf about that. Concerning outside buffs, i think they either need to make the most powerful ones such as RRFE self only, or make them self only and throw in a lesser nano that can be casted on other people like UVC and the 'mark' line for MAs. It would also solve the problem of no smg buffs in the game giving fixer or soldier some nanos to buff others with that wasn't as strong as the suppressor or total focus line.

I think hermy stated it best on one of my threads a while back that the nerf-criers need to stop or else we'll be fighting each other with sticks and stones.

[Dimmufodr]

AO will never be balanced when it comes to 1vs1 pvp. I posted in this thread mainly because some people are implying that by loosing to a lvl 118 trader you don't know what your doing. This is not correct, imho it isn't important either. What matters is that all professions can feel that they make a contribution of some sort in PvP, and if you remove the drains from the trader you basicly take away their profession defining nano.

When NW comes out the old time duells won't matter much anymore, then it will be the traders that have to contribute by debuffing oponents and probably risk ending up in reclaim while the soldiers are laughing :P

PS. Allibobba, the PvP critt- nerf came as a result of the developers vision of longer PvP fights not the whining from people on this forum. I can't remember one single profession that didn't whine over being hit by this nerf.

[Dimmufodr]

And the rock - paper - scissor model is FUBARED. If anyone can come up with the complete model and make sense out of it please do so, I'll give you a nice reward.

[Fatcrusher]

LOL , The 1st time this guy attacked me i was w8ing for an omni enf to jump me so i was max attack and rage had just ran out when he debuffed me , he made me run to zone . I came back and entered 25% again this time max defence and making sure my rage was constantly up giving me 1500+ NR , he debuffed me 1st time Np . I was 50% affective and with the recent crit nerf was unable to outdamage this guys HOT and trader heals and once again was forced to run . This was some pretty funny stuff and preps to Nerfmee for being the 1st Grey to ever beat me (even if i didnt let him kill me) .
Quote from Nerfmee "Zoning is weak man"
Quote from Me "You think im gonna let a grey stand over my dead body in mmd ffs lol"

[dypfryst]

Originally posted by Coldstrike


Well, I know he got Stromm and one more fixer. Just assumed it was you, since you brought this up.

That 112 trader got stromm alone????
how the heck did he do that?

I want what he is smoking if that is what needed

[Deskclerk]

Originally posted by Noer
Christ... can't believe you are starting on this again. Because your own professions suck - yes they do. Focus on getting them fixed. Engies are getting a big roundup, fixers got a roundup, enforcers got one. Lemme guess... you are getting one aswell. Just takes time.

The guy spend 10 mins draining and you fight him. Who is the stupid? heh

did'nt u quit?

[Julka_Pomy]

Originally posted by Kromoz
repeat after me :

pvp in AO is not 1vs1 oriented
pvp in AO is not 1vs1 oriented
pvp in AO is not 1vs1 oriented
pvp in AO is not 1vs1 oriented
.......

LOL so true...
Why would someone spend so much time and money to creat mass combat enviroment and then waste their time to balance 1v1....

Here is a chatlog from everyday AO pvp in 2HO. Well not every day but regular masscombat situation.

List of Clan players.

A very very gimped soldier
A very very gimped soldier 2 (even some of them claim they lost to engeneer they still are the major pvpers)
A pvp god trader
A pvp godwannabe fixer
A nanogimpy technician.
An immortal doctor.
A new flavour of the month Enforser.

About same on omni side...

Warchat> A pvp godwannabe fixer; damn divested plundered.
Warchat> An immortal doctor: same here, all are ok?
Warchat> A very very gimped soldier: ya i zoned
Warchat> A very very gimped soldier 2: damn rapid plasy ok all get ready we gonna rush where are you A pvp god trader?
Warchat> A pvp god trader: Target<<<Insurance Reclaim>>>>
Warchat> A new flavour of the month Enforser.: Phew made it with 100 HP left damn fixer was chain rooting me but i got MA before i zoned., Sorry for ya A pvp god trader
Warchat> A nanogimpy technician.: hehe i kileld an agent

5 mintueis later trader finaly comes back.
Warchat> A pvp god trader: NCU, Speed, Doc HP, Essence, RRFe, AT, BHE plz.

1 minute later after all buffed.
Warchat>A very very gimped soldier: Ok lets all go out and kill trader!
Warchat> A very very gimped soldier 2: All lock on trader! A nanogimpytechnician. nuke him with Crown.
Warchat> A pvp god trader: Rdy.
Warchat> An immortal doctor.: rdy here
Warchat> A pvp godwannabe fixer: Rdy too
Warchat> A new flavour of the month Enforser: rdy to rock and roll
Warchat: A very very gimped soldier: Doc temp HP plz
Warchat> A very very gimped soldier 2: me too plz.

A very very gimped soldier zones out
A very very gimped soldier 2 follows him

Warchat> A very very gimped soldier: Bwuhahha 2.5k Full auto Remains of (insret omni trader name here) woot i got kill for that sucker.
Warchat> A pvp godwannabe fixer: **** divested.
Warchat> An immortal doctor: i debuffed their NT and Fixer.
Warchat> A pvp god trader: Target <<< insurance Reclaim>>> but i divested their doctor.
Warchat> A new flavour of the month Enforser: sorry dood.
Warchat> An immortal doctor: Phew made it to zone damn rapid palsy...
Warchat> An immortal doctor: ALL KILL THEIR DOC!
Warchat> A very very gimped soldier 2: Woot got point for @@<<Remains of (insert omni doctor name here)>>>@@
Warchat>A very very gimped soldier: Good job on chain rooting that sucker. A pvp godwannabe fixer
Warchat> A new flavour of the month Enforser: Cool Remains of (insert any omni here) and Remains of insert (any omni name here)
Warchat>A nanogimpy technician: hehe got points for those two losers.
Warchat> A pvp godwannabe fixer; How the heck?
Warchat> A nanogimpy technician: hehe AOE.

All remaining omni run to zone.

[Julka_Pomy]

Originally posted by Nothinman

4. in mass pvp, those drains are worse then rapid palsy.. come out cast it on 10 omni/clan zone.. you have almost single handedly crippled half the opposing force.

5.Drains need a change in pvp, I can use tactics to beat any proffesion in the game. even a doc i stand a very low chance of winning.. fixers enfs. they can all be beaten. traders cannot.

6. a trader kills every class, everyone one of them, no other class can say that they consistantly kill every class.

4: Beeeep wrong, why/
To debuff 10 people it will take trade 70+ seconds in that time trader can be killed 30 times.
Ah yes rapid palsy is more powerful couse it taked 30 seconds for me on full defence to debuff 10 people.

5: I can kill trader with certain luck and weapon.

6: look above.

[________________Caol]

Originally posted by Azzazzimon
Traders are powerful, it's not like we didn't know it before.


Why should 1 little nano debuff both all weaponskills and all nanoskills?

Other profs debuff nano skills, traders should only debuff weapon skills.

The drains will be nerfed. I put that much fate in FC. Loosing 400 points in all nanoskills and weaponskills, while the trader get's 300+. That's 700+ in skill-spread. Now, add OE penalties to that and you got everything needed for a nerf. Really.

I'm not calling for a nerf. I just don't care enough. But sooner or later you'll have to face the facts and realise that it's needed. Noers "dont cry for nerfs, cry for upgrades of you own profession" deal doesn't hold. What kind of a upgrade would balance drains? That would take a ****load of upgrades.

[Noer]

Originally posted by besheba



did'nt u quit?

I'm glad you have something usefull and constructive to add. But then again - did you ever? Not that I can think of.

[________________Caol]

Originally posted by Garzu-perman



1 vs 1 PvP means everything!

Amen, brother!

[Noer]

Originally posted by Wo "Caol" Ha


Amen, brother!

Sorry to say. W-R-O-N-G

You may think so, but Funcom officially stated otherwise very recently. Guess how things are going to be balanced wether you like it or not.

And yes team pvp is close to be the thing. Notum Wars isn't that far away.

[________________Caol]

Originally posted by Noer


Sorry to say. W-R-O-N-G

Sorry to say. I--D-O-N-T--C-A-R-E-!

<Noer|away> I'm done wasting my time and money on FunCom.

Are you?

[cold]

Originally posted by Wo "Caol" Ha
Noers "dont cry for nerfs, cry for upgrades of you own profession" deal doesn't hold. What kind of a upgrade would balance drains? That would take a ****load of upgrades.

Actually, engineers are getting a resist-drain nano soon, and resist-roots for their bots. On top of that, their bots will also snare YOU. Yes, I think the deal holds

[________________Caol]

Originally posted by cold


Actually, engineers are getting a resist-drain nano soon, and resist-roots for their bots. On top of that, their bots will also snare YOU. Yes, I think the deal holds

Ok. For the engineer. Now what about the rest of the 20012 professions?

[Noer]

All I can say I'm playing Notum Wars beta. And trader isn't the one going to be predator of all professions. Can't say more, NDA and all.

[Julka_Pomy]

Doctors in NW are not any better then they now...

[Razzitazz]

Ok a few quick things.

A) Traders debuffs are much more powerful then any other because:

1. They give the trader ungodly attack rating, plus makes resistance impossible as his nano skills are now through the roof.

2. Unlike a doc or MP, the trader debuffs you while making himself godlike, all in the while they can root, mass root, snare, heal. Come on.

3.) 100% on a debuff? WTF! Most of my nukes are 107%! That's my main source of damage. And for some damn reason the 190% lands on me at full defense! And lasts for what? 3 minutes??

B) Yeah, funny that it is balrogg. I had beaten him in a one on one in omni arena back in 14.5. Everyone told me not to. And nerfmee, I took him down in MMD that night. He sent me a tell saying he was unprepared with no heal cause of my crown, but he was a nasty one.

C) Noer, I do understand why you don't get the fact that one on one is important. Because when you realize that everyone else likes that fact that a fair fight can happen against anyone, traders will have to get the nerf stick. They have been overpowered for so long, its time to tone them down a notch. No one wants mass pvp as funcom envisions it. No one wants to make sure there is a NT there so SOMEONE will have a chance to take down that fixer. No one wants to make sure a soldier is there to take down that doc. ITS LAME! The fact that Funcom is even thinking of giving up profession balance for this nemesis crap is another cheap copout for not wanting to really fix their game. Sound familiar? ELLTS too uber? Rip em out, but leave current ones there. Oh some are still uber? Ok nerf em. Oh wait, thats too much? Fine level the playing field. NO NO NO. Thats not how to make a good game. Look at companies like Blizzard. Instead of ripping professions apart and making one beter then the other they tweak and tweak and tweak until its balanced, or damn close.

4) This statement is what the overpowered trader wants everyone to believe:

Well of course its going to cost them their best nanos. That's just the nature of a debuff. To weaken your opponent while making the trader stronger.

This is the truth:

I have about 950 MC, allowing me to cast IEF in PvP since there is a huge gap in the 850-1000 MC range. A trader nails me with debuffs and I'm at around 550, or something like that.

Now IEF does 2,249-3,074, ends up doing anywhere from 400-800 usually in pvp. Trader gets his debuff and Im doing something along the lines of 284-525 with Bane of the Living. Now funcom says that AC blah blah, 1K = 100 blah blah. So what, 4K AC absorbs 400 dmg.. 40% cap on 284-525. Get it? I saw Pomy hitting for 2dmg with her 200 MCS, and 30 bursts. BS BS BS BS BS BS.

[Razzitazz]

Originally posted by Noer
All I can say I'm playing Notum Wars beta. And trader isn't the one going to be predator of all professions. Can't say more, NDA and all.

Hmm, I'm there too, send me a tell about where you get this from. Mass PvP traders always do the same crap, then drain everyone and kill the fight. They dont' even stay, they drain and run.

Tell me how one on one is different in NW.