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Thread: Lets play a game. Traders justify this one.

  1. #41
    I REALLY wanna know who this trader is

  2. #42
    My conclusions to all this :

    1) drains are too powerfull

    2) defensive skills in general (Nano resist, evades, parry;...) are underpowered



    Oooh and bring back my crits in PvP, tx.

  3. #43
    I wasn't there and haven't talked to Stromm but I can almost certainly guarantee the Trader's name was something like Nerfme. I don't remember it exactly but its something like that.

    And it will be no shock to all of you when I tell you he is the alt of the ultimate outside buff whore Ballrogg.

    He told me that he drains the guard at MMD before getting into battle and that his PM was well over 900. He was at Tir Arena the other night and two of us couldn't take him down at once. He zoned about 15 times and didn't kill either of us (me and a green pretty uber soldier) and he sure was aware of the zone bug because not once was I able to keep him rooted or start another root once he left the arena.

    hehe he even had the nerve to ask me for a HoT.

  4. #44
    Yeah, Nerfmeee (3 x e). Asked if he was Balrogg, but he denied it. Is in the same guild tho.

  5. #45

    Ok

    Nerfmeee is lvl120 trader at the moment.

    I know Balrogg and yes, he is the ULTIMATE outside buffed person in Rubi Ka (1,2,3). That ofcource does not mean anything.
    Go get buffs yourself, hehe.

    Well, i guess the name displays his intentions...:P
    Anikitos Enforcer (Retired)
    Founder of Avatars
    Current Armor

    Omicrondelta MP (Active)

  6. #46
    Lets say u nerf drains. Are u talking in PVP only or PVM to?How would u nerf em less negative skills and skill add to trader or only negative to target and same add for trader....both ways kill traders it would be 1 of the most evil nerfs ever. If u nerf both negative to target and add to trader we wouldn't be able to cast decent heals nemore we would have sucky AR (gen buffs don't add alot of AR) . If u would only nerf negative skills to target it would just take longer to kill us since we can use some of our better heals then.

    Also NR does work imo somebody on full deff with max NR and fully implanted will counter almost everything even 100% (when ur nano skills aren't boosted insanely). Few days ago a clan fixer came to omni arena( GAMKIV) he killed me first time so i though why not try gank him his GA should be at 50% if lucky 25% all i ahd to do then was make sure i didn't run out of nano, so i divest the mongol meat dude so i can use 2 best drains (my nano skills are 1K+ then) and went into arena i got the 100% on him then tried 6 times to land the 190% then i died....so even when my nano skills r verry high i still get countered.Maybe i could have landed it after trying 20 times but its not like he was tickling me and healing isn't really an option because of the 8 sec recharge on drains.

  7. #47
    - up the resist % of the drains in PvP?

    - give some profession a big Nano Resist buff?


    Could my friends the trader live with any of these two thingies?

    And the fact that a GAIV full def fixer resists everything well,
    that's kinda normal atm

  8. #48

    Thumbs down

    I don't really know where to start. There are so many logical fallacies in the arguments to nerf traders it makes me wonder how the western world survived.

    If you want to get right down to it. The reason the starter of the thread posted what appears to be a constructive criticism on what most people perceive to be the most "uber" profession, is because he witnessed a fight between some professions vs traders and he thought he knew what the outcome would be.

    He was wrong. Maybe the starter of the thread was the high level person who thought ganking a level 118 trader would have been easy game. But let's assume for the moment he is not as shallow as that. This "nerfing" is totally the wrong way of going about things. Let's look at this from a more common sense perspective. Alot of people have died to traders. I am sure most of you who want to nerf traders probably have fought one yourself and have died. That's just the nature of the game. You win some you lose some. Just cause a level 200 MA loses to a level 200 Enforcer does not mean that the level 200 enforcer is over powered (I mean it could be due to the fact that funcom nerfed crits right?) Likewise just cause a level 150 soldier loses to a level 150 doc who can outheal the damage dished out by a 150 soldier, doesn't mean that the 150 doc is over powered and needs to be nerfed.

    Also please try to keep in mind as certain professions get higher up they are harder to kill by other professions who would have been able to easily own them at a lower level. At certain levels, some professions are much more harder to kill at other levels, and vice versa. You can't expect to consistently beat a certain profession no matter what level he/she is. Unless that profession is an engie of course.

    I could start with all the logical fallacies and start pointing to the most retarded things I have read in this thread. But instead I will just leave you with a better suggestion than to nerf traders.

    How about we just make other professions a little better?
    Not only does that fix the problem of "traders being uber" that also makes everyone a little more happy.

    Some of you people are too caught up with oh no I suxx0r, so I want the other proffessions to suxx0r too. Sometimes you gotta look at the real reason you want a nerf. Is it cause your ego is bruised or is it cause your looking to authentically enhance the game?

  9. #49
    MMM how would u increase the NR on drains make em like 150 and 240?:O or something like 150 and 190

    The first would result in all lvl 120+ traders to stop playing i think atleast i will.

    The second would also be a disaster for traders in PVP.Its like the MA crit nerf i wich FC didn't do that.I used to be owned by MA's and now i can kill em pretty eassy.I think i don't like getting owned or beeing able to kill ppl with eass if PVP was really good and balanced it should be really close but tahts almost imposible i think.

    Anyways any kind of drain nerf would really hurt traders beyond repair. A trader with no drains is like an engi with no bot but the abilaty to use the bot heals on himself.

  10. #50
    How about changing it so that the drains etc only add to the Traders skills and not subtract to the targets?

  11. #51

    Wink

    Alot of people have died to fixers...


    I am sure someone will eventually write a complaint about that on the boards too. It will probably follow a template similar to this:

    FIXERS WITH GRID ARMOR ARE TOO OVERPOWERED
    I HAVE SCREENSHOT BUT I CANT FIGURE OUT HOW TO POST URL SO ILL JUST TYPE IN BATTLE LOG

    ME: MISS
    FIXER: HITS U FOR 1k
    ME: MISS
    FIXER: HITS U FOR 1k
    ME: MISS
    FIXER: HITS U FOR 1k
    ME: MISS
    FIXER HITS U FOR 600
    ME: MISS
    FIXER: HITS U FOR 1k
    FIXER SAYS: "h4w!"
    ME: MISS

    PLZ TELL ME WHY WE SHOLDNT NERF FIXERS! k THx.


    Cmon if anyone should be nerfed it has to be engies. Those suckers will kill you in no time.

  12. #52
    What this comes down to is this:

    Do you think it should even be possible for any profession to be able to debuff all weapon and nano skills by -400-ish?

    Forget resists, forget laddering, forget the trader having "low" skills before draining, forget how many casts or how long a time it takes.

    Forget explanations and justifications. Just answer yes or no. Should it even be possible for one profession to debuff all skills to that extent, at all?
    Taren "Jynne" Suitt, Level 216/16 Eternalist
    Knight of Unity of the Rose - Check out our AO Tools!
    The Doctor Guide to: Notum Wars Martial Arts Perks! Nano Controller Units
    The General Guide to: Auto-Combat General Perks

    Visit the Roses and check out the shops in our City, NE of ICC at 4500x1500 in Andromeda!

    Iron Law of Exploits: If it can be exploited, it will be exploited. However a rule is exploitable, the exploits become the rule.

  13. #53
    Well, how about one or more of the following:

    - Half the debuff part of drains, leave the buff as it is. Trader still gets uber attack rating, target isn't completely crippled.

    - Make only one drain work in PvP. Target less crippled, Trader less AR.

    - Reduce the duration of the debuff part of drains.

    All theese would not hit a trader too hard. If the only way a trader can beat someone is by setting them back 120 levels then something is wrong with how they play.

    As for MrBunnys post. You clearly didn't get the point at all. A 120 trader killed level 180+ players of pretty much every single class in duels that he himself asked for. You think it's balanced that a 120 consistently wins against players who are 60-80 levels higher, no matter what their professions are? I could agree if this was one specific profession who had a big weakness against traders, but it's not. It's all professions. Of all professions in the game, only one has something even close to a defence against drains, and that is the enf. So that leaves 10 (or 11 if you count traders themself) who are completely helpless if they can't kill the trader in the first 20 seconds of the fight. Tell me why this is the way things should be.

  14. #54
    - Let the first drain stay at 100%, but change the big one, would that be an option?

    - Don't let em stack?

    Drains are too powerfull In PvP, i'm pretty sure of that, and i'm pretty sure it will be nerfed one day or another, so the traders might help and find an acceptable solution for every one, before FC takes the matter in own hand and destroy everything...

    little MA here, so i know what a bad PvP nerf is, and i don't wish it to anyone

  15. #55
    Easy soloution.

    Make drains only effect weapon skills. This way traders can't shut down everyone in every aspect, and it makes MPs nano-debuffing abilities more important, thus making the MP relatively more formatible and the trader less destructive.

  16. #56
    repeat after me :

    pvp in AO is not 1vs1 oriented
    pvp in AO is not 1vs1 oriented
    pvp in AO is not 1vs1 oriented
    pvp in AO is not 1vs1 oriented
    .......

    yes traders are VERY good in 1vs1 duels, may be the best prof in duels (I actually think it's enforcers, but that's not the point here)
    me as a trader I don't duel, and I hate arenas, I want them removed from the game

    in mass pvp, traders are NOT the best, they are NOT overpowered, I think we are well balanced, just as some others profs (but not all profs actually)
    draining an opponent -420 is not more overpowered than AOE nuking 10 guys, or tanking 5 of them with GA4 or TMS

    this has been said many times but let me say it again :
    1 trader vs 1 soldier = soldier dead
    2 traders vs 2 soldiers = traders dead

    I don't want to be nerfed because of arena's nerf cryers, 1vs1 is NOT pvp for me
    we play a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER game, for those who forgot it
    I think each prof should have something good in mass pvp, period

    one suggestion I often read is : make drains so they don't stack
    try play a trader and pvp with only deprives, no plunders : you will die 90% of your duels, so that can't be a good solution

    ho another thing : in the paper-rock-scissor game, engies will be trader-killers (that's not a joke)
    future pvp
    neophyte Kromoz 200 gimp

    yes traders eat babies

  17. #57
    Originally posted by Jcdv2
    And the fact that a GAIV full def fixer resists everything well,
    that's kinda normal atm
    I find this the most amusing inaccuracy in AO at the moment. But then again, most people post what they want to believe, rather than what is factual.



    Also...for a little thread review here, I'm glad that so many traders rallied to the cause to defend the indefensible. It was funny.


    Again, the fact that a 112 (or 118 or whatever the hell Nerfmee is) could compete with ANY profession at 180+ is the most extreme examply of how unbalanced Traders are.

    Some of the traders rushing to make excuses talked about Enforcers beating MAs, but no one is calling for a nerf there. Well guess what? Enforcers don't beat every single class 90% of the time. Guess who does? Traders.

    As I stated before, calling for nerfs just because you lose a duel to someone, or you have a misperceived notion that their class is overpowered is for children. Calling for a nerf in a situation that is 100% factual, noted and studied for months and months, and would actually INCREASE PvP participation is completely justified.

    Some other traders rushed with the excuse that AO is all about TEAM PvP and that traders stink at it. Hmm....well thought out response there. Let's take a look shall we? Team PvP eh? How often do you see teams PvPing? I'd say less than 10% of the time. And traders stink at it because they get killed first!? Well, Einstein, why do you think that is? Because they are far and away the most damaging PvP profession. Perhaps if traders were not so unbalanced, they would not be killed first.

    So, look at it this way traders, what is your goal in AO? Are you tired of no one wanting to fight you one on one? Are you tired of being killed first in this so called "Team PvP" world? What if you were actually balanced? Wouldn't it be better to take part in more equal, enjoyable PvP, or are you really just the group of people you've been stereotyped as for the past year; bandwagon, Kewl Doodz that just want to be the most "uber" kids on the block?

    I think Nothinman's signature best sums up the situation.


    Oh, and a final note for any FC personel passing by, since this is the rallying cry I try to leave for you all over.

    ROCK, PAPER, SCISSORS PROFESSION DESIGN DOES NOT WORK, IS THE LAZY WAY OUT, AND PRECLUDES PvPing IN THE MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION.
    Last edited by AnotherFixer; Nov 19th, 2002 at 19:14:01.

  18. #58
    Originally posted by Kromoz
    repeat after me :

    pvp in AO is not 1vs1 oriented
    pvp in AO is not 1vs1 oriented
    pvp in AO is not 1vs1 oriented
    pvp in AO is not 1vs1 oriented
    .......

    yes traders are VERY good in 1vs1 duels, may be the best prof in duels (I actually think it's enforcers, but that's not the point here)
    me as a trader I don't duel, and I hate arenas, I want them removed from the game

    in mass pvp, traders are NOT the best, they are NOT overpowered, I think we are well balanced, just as some others profs (but not all profs actually)
    draining an opponent -420 is not more overpowered than AOE nuking 10 guys, or tanking 5 of them with GA4 or TMS

    this has been said many times but let me say it again :
    1 trader vs 1 soldier = soldier dead
    2 traders vs 2 soldiers = traders dead

    I don't want to be nerfed because of arena's nerf cryers, 1vs1 is NOT pvp for me
    we play a MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER game, for those who forgot it
    I think each prof should have something good in mass pvp, period

    one suggestion I often read is : make drains so they don't stack
    try play a trader and pvp with only deprives, no plunders : you will die 90% of your duels, so that can't be a good solution

    ho another thing : in the paper-rock-scissor game, engies will be trader-killers (that's not a joke)
    future pvp
    Agree!
    Even though my previous post maybe indicated that I have a different opinion I don't. PvP for me is something I do mostly in 25% zones, and 1vs1 balance is never gonna happen.

    I just fought that trader to see how a lvl190 agent without using any mimics/assumes could do against a fully buffed 118 trader. My conclusion was that he pretty much controlled the duell after I had done my aimed + critt alpha, still he was unable to get the kill because of my runspeed and evades and it ended with me zoning out (didn't feel like giving away free kills).

    But this rock-paper-scissor thing doesn't hold water either. Sure you can say:
    prof A > prof B
    prof B > prof C
    prof C > prof A

    Thing is that then the prof F (engis) comes in and ruins this little piece of math.
    Last edited by Dimmufodr; Nov 19th, 2002 at 19:37:14.
    Felix Dimmufodr Age : lvl220 Agent

  19. #59
    Originally posted by Jynne
    What this comes down to is this:

    Do you think it should even be possible for any profession to be able to debuff all weapon and nano skills by -400-ish?

    Forget resists, forget laddering, forget the trader having "low" skills before draining, forget how many casts or how long a time it takes.

    Forget explanations and justifications. Just answer yes or no. Should it even be possible for one profession to debuff all skills to that extent, at all?
    I notice nobody has answered to this.
    Taren "Jynne" Suitt, Level 216/16 Eternalist
    Knight of Unity of the Rose - Check out our AO Tools!
    The Doctor Guide to: Notum Wars Martial Arts Perks! Nano Controller Units
    The General Guide to: Auto-Combat General Perks

    Visit the Roses and check out the shops in our City, NE of ICC at 4500x1500 in Andromeda!

    Iron Law of Exploits: If it can be exploited, it will be exploited. However a rule is exploitable, the exploits become the rule.

  20. #60

    Thumbs down

    I understand this perfectly well.

    Someone is using an extreme example in conjunction with a stereotypical view of traders in order to accomplish a nerf.


    Originally posted by Coldstrike
    Well, how about one or more of the following:

    - Half the debuff part of drains, leave the buff as it is. Trader still gets uber attack rating, target isn't completely crippled.
    While we're at it let's also make roots last 0.2 seconds. So agents and fixer's wont root you, run away, shoot you full of holes. Root you again, run, shoot you some more full of holes.

    Also let's make doc init debuffs only half effective. I mean damn its not fair that the target of doc's debuffs force their victims to be de facto crippled by only being able to cast nanos and shoot every 10 seconds.

    And nukes? Have you even seen their recharge time? 3 seconds? my god! root, run, nuke. root, run, nuke.

    Originally posted by Coldstrike
    You think it's balanced that a 120 consistently wins against players who are 60-80 levels higher, no matter what their professions are? I could agree if this was one specific profession who had a big weakness against traders, but it's not. It's all professions.
    Look, its a debuff. That's the nature of debuffs. I am not trying to say that it's ok for a level 118 or whatever to be able to consistently kill a 180 or a bunch of 180's. That would be a problem. But in reality, that's not the case. Traders of that level do not consistently kill people of 180's of all classes. If that was the case for sure I would be seeing more titled traders running around. It has to be an extraordinarily twinked/outside buffed and a smart and lucky trader to have been able to kill people of that level. Which leads me back to my first conclusion. People's egos are bruised and they take it out on the whole profession by bringing up some stereotype about the profession. "Traders are uber, need nerf"


    When I was level in the 170's I was quite capable of killing a level 150 trader after being debuffed completely by said trader. So either I am just obviously extremely uber or the 180's people in question are gimps. I am not that uber. So it has to be that the people in question are gimps.


    Or why limit it to gimps. Maybe they had a server sync problem. Maybe the trader got lucky. Maybe they got careless fighting someone they thought they would win against (I mean cmon.. 120 vs 180?) and subsequently lost the fight. Maybe they were just plain stupid?

    Look of all the possible reasons, people picked the oddest reason. Traders are uber. Why do you think that is the case? Is it cause they perhaps genuinely want to enhance the balance of the game? Or to make someone be alot weaker so that they can more easily beat them down?

    And from all I've read so far, the majority of the posts do not seem to flow very well with "enhance the balance of the game"

    It seems to me most of you are just mad. That is not any basis to nerf a profession.

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