Lets play a game. Traders justify this one.

[Coldstrike]

Originally posted by Argulace_MoK
Go talk about pvp on the pvp board, go talk about soldiers on the soldier board and go bug Zerosignal to get you answers on soldier issues, but dont come here crying nerf on an entire profession because your frustrated with your own.

I'm *NOT* the one who keeps bringing up soldiers on the PvP board..

[-kromoz-]

Originally posted by Piercingevil
Anyone else see Mrbunnys post as ridiculous? Claiming that a NT is as uber as a trader, actually he is saying we are more uber.

in mass pvp, NT are more uber than any other profession
- NS
- area blind
- area nuke

uber-NT killed half of other side fighters
that's what happen all day long at camelot

Originally posted by Piercingevil

You are very ignorant on this game, I hope no one takes you seriously.

you are very ignorant about MASS pvp (I never see you in pvp zone, may be cuz the only pvp place where I don't go are arenas ?)
what you tell about duels is almost right, BUT (here we go again), pvp in AO is not 1vs1 oriented, and will never be
so stop bothering us about 1vs1 balance, it's only balanced at lvl1 with same breed, same prof, no nanos and solar pistols

remove arenas from the game
thanks

[Razzitazz]

Originally posted by Kromoz
in mass pvp, NT are more uber than any other profession
- NS
- area blind
- area nuke

uber-NT killed half of other side fighters
that's what happen all day long at camelot

NT's are good in mass pvp, I do realize that. But I can assure you that no NT is uber because of their AE nuke. They are good, not uber. First, its easily shut down. Second, Kels has a very slow recharge. Third, reflect damage will kill us, right through NS.

A lone 200 NT casting VE on a group of 200s is not that uber. It doesn't hit for enough. Kels is an entirely different story but with the long recharge you will need more then 1 NT to take down ANY 200's.

But AE sure does a great job if there is any 130s (or now 150's) around as they will not last long, or if there is a group of NT's doing it. But a group of soldiers is damn good too.

There is a difference between being weak in defense and being capable of doing good offense then being good in both while being able to cripple any profession all the while being able to be the master of trade skills. Too much uber ness. If you think we are too uber because of AE nukes (the 2 that are even viable to use) remember that it is easy to take us down. And not many NT's have NS MKII.

you are very ignorant about MASS pvp (I never see you in pvp zone, may be cuz the only pvp place where I don't go are arenas ?)

I mass pvp all the time, don't give me that. If anything its a time zone thing because I don't see you either. I don't go to camelot because too many peole are just there for loot, but if you are in 2h0 or MMD, I'm always on warchat. If there is more then 1 omni somewhere, I'll be there.

what you tell about duels is almost right, BUT (here we go again), pvp in AO is not 1vs1 oriented, and will never be
so stop bothering us about 1vs1 balance, it's only balanced at lvl1 with same breed, same prof, no nanos and solar pistols

remove arenas from the game
thanks

What I say about duels is 100% correct. But if you want to talk about mass pvp, a NT may be able to use AE nukes, but a trader has mass crowd control and doesnt even have to kill people to get them out of the fight. One plunder and doc gone, NT gone, MP gone, soldier gone, MA gone, etc.

What is more uber then that?

[Razorbak133]

Got through about 7 pages of whines/arguements before I gave up reading still more pages, so forgive me if I repeat something that has already been mentioned. When it comes to trader drains in PvP, there IS and exploit that will allow a trader to land a plunder regardless of a person's NR. I have tested it out on someone with max NR and defensive and can say that a non-exploited plunder is resisted about 6 out of 7 times and by then unless I have HE, my nano pool is pitiful. If I had moochies first it will be resisted about 2 out of 3 times. An exploit casted plunder will land EVERY time. So before everyone screams for Funkcom to nerf drains, how about we get the buggers to fix the exploit first, then see how PvP goes after that.

Also, the reason many traders are resisting the nerf or changes to trader drains is cause we all know that Funkcom has a nasty habit of over nerfing something into uselessness and seems to have an inability to seperate PvP and PvM combat effects. Thus traders fear that a drain 'fix' will mean that they will get 1 minute drains (wow, now a trader can really waste away the fights with having to cast a drain every 30 seconds to keep the 2 drains up and without those drains, the AR is not really any better then any other class of the same lvl). And of course halfing the effects of drains will mean that at higher lvls, we still will not have as high an AR as many other classes. In PvP this would probably mean that unless the fight is over within 45 seconds, then the trader will probably lose cause they will have to start redoing drains which burns up nano and time that they could be shooting.
IF we could be sure that Funkcom would actually listen to the players then I am sure a group or committee of all classes could be formed to honestly examine the situation and come up with a plan to balance without over nerfing traders. But before that, they need to fix the drain exploit.
No, I will not say how the exploit is done and for those who are thinking I probably use it all the time, I don't care for PvP and cause of that, it took a long time for me to find out about this exploit, but I image those heavy into PvP could find out fairly quick.

[Razzitazz]

The duration of the debuff doesn't have to change on the trader, but on the target. Hell, it could leave the trader with the traded skill for 2 hours for all I care, just make the damn thing break if I get hit. I don't want the trader to lose the ability to pump himself up, I want him to lose the ability to keep me down for so long.

[Peisinoe]

Or you could give them a seperate drain for each nano skill and weapon skill. Then they can tell me how my dominates are not seriously underpowered verse their drains.

(Semi-joke btw.)

P.S. Mrbunny is an idiot.

[Razzitazz]

Wonder who he is in game. I surely will laugh if it is Littlebunny the agent.

[Coldstrike]

Originally posted by Piercingevil
Wonder who he is in game. I surely will laugh if it is Littlebunny the agent.

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if he is. Seems like the ones who opposes any change to drains the most are agents who can't PvP without going trader.

[SS_]

Originally posted by Coldstrike


Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if he is. Seems like the ones who opposes any change to drains the most are agents who can't PvP without going trader.

Havent been in trader form for months now, and doing good...

Seriously, if you guys got killed by this trader, please look over your pvp tactics/skills/whatever...

Leave traders alone just like you're leaving docs alone

[SS_]

Originally posted by Highjack


Not very bright are you?

Looks to me that you arent the bright one, calling for nerfs cause people die to a 112 trader?


Obviously the 180+ players either severly underestimated the trader and fooled around and died, or they just plain suck...

[Razzitazz]

Originally posted by SS


Looks to me that you arent the bright one, calling for nerfs cause people die to a 112 trader?


Obviously the 180+ players either severly underestimated the trader and fooled around and died, or they just plain suck...

I'm so sick of hearing this. I have already said I killed nerfmee the first time I dueled him. I crowned, and countered 2 debuffs and he died. That doesn't mean I'm better then the others.

What matters is that no other 112 profession can beat a 200 soldier, or enforcer, etc.

[Julka_Pomy]

I think we should ask opinion of people who pvp in game not whine on boards.

People who have experince in masscombat who fought many battles got high titles and lost them.

I am prety sad to see how NT and soldier who don't even know anything about traders trying to nerf them... Because all the knowlage about traders is that trader can divest and plunder.

You also forget that plunder is not that easy to land now... and thats all cost nano. And they dont have much of that too.

Study trader weakness and you will see that they not even good at all.

Heals were never overpowered in mass combat becasue of blackholes lag, iteruption and so on. I died to many times becasue Executing nano Program Complite healing and i get nothing.

I know that plunders are not used in mass combat and i would not use it unless i want to double drain doc.
On the other hand divests also not that uber. becasue they have again 6 seconds recharge time. In mass combat every second is vital.

As a doc i dont debuff just everyone. First i debuff NTs not even traders but NTs becasue of their area affects. Then goes traders and then fixers. I leave soldiers and others alone unless nothing esle to do.

In duels i must say now i can easely kill trader in one 1v1. But i dont want to base pvp on duels especialy since notum wars are coming out soon.

Soldiers were are and will be always best class for mass combat. Their damage their protectin their HP is superior. You cant be uber in every field.

[-kromoz-]

Originally posted by Piercingevil

NT's are good in mass pvp, I do realize that. But I can assure you that no NT is uber because of their AE nuke. They are good, not uber. First, its easily shut down. Second, Kels has a very slow recharge. Third, reflect damage will kill us, right through NS.

I totally agree
and so are traders .. good but not uber ... the way I talked about NT is the way many peoples here are talking about traders, considering only one part of our strenghts and weakness

Originally posted by Piercingevil

There is a difference between being weak in defense and being capable of doing good offense then being good in both while being able to cripple any profession all the while being able to be the master of trade skills. Too much uber ness.

it's damn easy to kill a trader in mass pvp, count us as "weak in defense" too
if our trade-skills are a problem, you can remove mine, I couldn't care less, plus it has nothing to do with pvp things. Take us our maestros and give them to engie, cool, I'm 100% for that.

Originally posted by Piercingevil

I mass pvp all the time, don't give me that. If anything its a time zone thing because I don't see you either. I don't go to camelot because too many peole are just there for loot, but if you are in 2h0 or MMD, I'm always on warchat. If there is more then 1 omni somewhere, I'll be there.

yeah looks like a time zone thing, cuz if you're looking for me I'm either in camelot/2ho/mmd too

Originally posted by Piercingevil

One plunder and doc gone, NT gone, MP gone, soldier gone, MA gone, etc.

you can't fight with ONE debuff running on you ? look at that :
trader 200 : 9OO atk rating
X prof 200 : 1150 atk rating (not all profs, I know)
then trader divest X
trader : 1050 atk rating
X : 950 atk rating
in mass pvp, that doesn't mean you are "out", you won't even be OE
that's the 2nd drain that totally ruin an opponent, not the first one, and most of the time our plunders are resisted, especially on casting profs such as docs and NTs
doc can still heal, NT can still blind/root/nuke, not as good as he's used to but he's not "out"
AND mochams can just counter a deprive's effect (for nano-skills)
with one divest running on me, I'm not OE, I can still root/heal/debuff/shoot, I won't zone or run out. With divest+plunder yes I'm out, but it's damn hard to plunder me if I'm on full def with 900 NR
believe it or not, in mass pvp I can divest+plunder one or 2 person at the same time, not 5+, that never happens, cuz you get hit alot, have to run for heal, get debuffed too of course
I'm sure you have a second hotkey's bar for when you are debuffed, don't you ?

[Coldstrike]

Originally posted by Julia
I think we should ask opinion of people who pvp in game not whine on boards.

People who have experince in masscombat who fought many battles got high titles and lost them.

I am prety sad to see how NT and soldier who don't even know anything about traders trying to nerf them... Because all the knowlage about traders is that trader can divest and plunder.

Well, for the record I see Piercingevil in MMD/2HO more often than I see you there Pomy. So does that make her opinion count more than yours? Just because people play at different times of the day doesn't mean that they don't PvP.

And I do know a good deal about traders. I created one well over a year ago back before they were considered good for anything at all, other than making money from buffing wrangles. And I have been playing it on and off regularly since. It is one of the characters I play when I want to be anynymous. So don't go making assumptions about what I know and don't know about traders please.

[Razzitazz]

First of all, this is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard:

Study trader weakness and you will see that they not even good at all.

Yeah right Pomy, you may be able to get some people on these boards to believe that doc heals aren't overpowered because of this, that or the other thing, but it sure as hell won't work on me about traders. Traders are very good in PvP, both mass PvP and team PvP.

What more about PvP and traders do I need to know besides they can stack two debuffs which usually land? I really don't understand it, you think I don't know what a trader does in PvP because I haven't taken one to high level yet?

As for the post that responded "to NT's as my post did to traders" its a completely different issue. A NT uses a AE debuff and there are quite a few disadvantages.

1) Either a super slow recharge time on a good damage cast, or a very fast nuking but low damage cast.

2) Reflects will easily kill me if I do it to more then 4 people at once, even through NS.

3) I have no defense, outside of NSMKII (which most don't have) to handle the aggro from the people I hit.

With a trader, though, they can deprive and its not a big deal. Deprive anyone and step away, the target is still standing there crippled. If I AE and you walk away, you are fine, you aren't still suffering the effects of the nuke.

How you can compare NT's to Traders in either PvP or mass PvP astounds me. There was a NT in 2ho today who was zone attacking all of us, yet the moment a trader was spotted everyone shouted "damn it, now a trader is here, take him out" then people on the boards act like the NT is the first to get out. No way, quit lying.

you can't fight with ONE debuff running on you ? look at that :
trader 200 : 9OO atk rating
X prof 200 : 1150 atk rating (not all profs, I know)
then trader divest X
trader : 1050 atk rating
X : 950 atk rating
in mass pvp, that doesn't mean you are "out", you won't even be OE
that's the 2nd drain that totally ruin an opponent, not the first one, and most of the time our plunders are resisted, especially on casting profs such as docs and NTs
doc can still heal, NT can still blind/root/nuke, not as good as he's used to but he's not "out"
AND mochams can just counter a deprive's effect (for nano-skills)
with one divest running on me, I'm not OE, I can still root/heal/debuff/shoot, I won't zone or run out. With divest+plunder yes I'm out, but it's damn hard to plunder me if I'm on full def with 900 NR

I have 700 AR with my ithaca, even with one debuff my AR is what 500? Then my 930 MC is at something like 730ish? Thats the difference between a nuke doing 600-1600 and 2,249-3,074. Most nukes hit for min damage and 40%, hitting for 200 dmg just isnt viable. And thats just a theoretical situation, because with the crap you are spewing you would think I don't get plundered ALL the time. But I do, yup, with 900 NR and full defense it always happens.

believe it or not, in mass pvp I can divest+plunder one or 2 person at the same time, not 5+, that never happens, cuz you get hit alot, have to run for heal, get debuffed too of course
I'm sure you have a second hotkey's bar for when you are debuffed, don't you ?

Yeah, I have a debuff bar for crown, plunder, plunder+divest and doc init. That doesn't matter though. Once -200 is on me, let alone -400, I'm doing so little damage that there is no reason to nuke.

Drains are too powerful, back to the point of this post, no other profession at 120 can beat another at 200.

Ask pvp players and not board writers eh? Listen to warchat FFS! Listen to people going absolutely nuts because even with maxxed NR they get double debuffed by traders. Listen to them all point out a trader to kill first but half of them saying "can't debuffed". Listen to the shout when one is near so we all know to be prepared to sit out for a couple minutes!

[Warna]

Some ppl need to learn how to kill a trader i think.........


1. Wear same weapons u have in your hands but ql 150 (ifs its UNIQ well change for a lower reqs one) With that u not gonna be OE even with -420..... (remember hes lvl 112 so not much HP to loose)

2. Get mochies of the 2 best nanoskills u need.... like that u still can cast the half way nanos line.

3. Get a RRF and a Deflect shield (biggest one avaible) (Enf gonna use a Rage over that)

4. Put your bar at 50% Less dmg from him with RRF

5. Get the much HP u can and if u still have ncus get a High hot.

6. use TTS/MoP/Crat cofee/ FoB if melee

He is lvl 112 indeed.... and he can cast the best nanos... but HELL! he dont have that much evades and either AR.... (BTW its too late this guy lvled now and hes gonna be way harder hehe


Finally, yes u need to be outside.... and yes u need to use strategie instead of bashing anything on a trader...


P.S im alloy/staff Enf and first debuff im not OE and second one im at 75% so i keep making enough dmg to kill him on challenger....

[________AnotherFixer]

Oh, Sky!, You're a ****ing genius! We never tried these things before!


Shmuck.

[Julka_Pomy]

All i have to say if you get owned its not a reason to nerf. While you get owned others kill traders like chickens

[________AnotherFixer]

Yes, you're right Julia

But if EVERYGODDAMNBODY gets owned....well then honey, guess what?

[binaural]

Pomy you know everything it would seem. so please... figure out why Register 3 is crashing on me in this .asm ive been on for 5 hours.. then i will stop calling nerf on traders.

Include "StandardDefs"

Org 0x0000

MainLine Equ $

Ldi SP,=Stacktop ;Process Entry Point

Ldi R3,=0
Ldi R2,=0
Ldi R1,=0
Ldi IX,=TasksDone ;setup the
Ldi IX+1,=KClean ;Global Variables
Ldi IX+2,=LClean ;
;Ldi R3,=0 ;and initialize
;Ldi R2,=0 ;
;Ldi R1,=0 ;them to 0
St (IX),R1 ;
St (IX+1),R2 ;
St (IX+2),R3 ;

Ldi R1,=Choice ;Prompt the user
Ldi R0,=TrapDisplayString ;for there Choice
Trap MonitorService ;

Ldi R0,=TrapKeyBoardIn ;put choice
Ld R4,R0 ;in R3
Trap MonitorService ;

Cmpi R4,='K' ;Case Statement
Lcall CleanTheKitchen ;Selects users
Cmpi R4,='k' ;choice and calls
Lcall CleanTheKitchen ;that subroutine
Ljmp Collector ;then returns and
;jumps to the end
Cmpi R4,='L' ;of the program
Lcall CleanLivingRoom ;
Cmpi R4,='l' ;
Lcall CleanLivingRoom ;
Ljmp Collector ;
;
Cmpi R4,='G' ;
Lcall TakeOutGarbage ;
Cmpi R4,='g' ;
Lcall TakeOutGarbage ;
Ljmp Collector ;
;
Cmpi R4,='A' ;

Lcall DoTheLaundry ;
Cmpi R4,='a' ;
Lcall DoTheLaundry ;

Ljmp Collector ;
;
Cmpi R4,='F' ;
Lcall Factorial ;
Cmpi R4,='f' ;
Lcall Factorial ;
Ljmp Collector ;
;
Cmpi R4,='P' ;
Lcall Play ;
Cmpi R4,='p' ;
Lcall Play ;
Ljmp Collector ;
;
Cmpi R4,='S' ;
Lcall GetServiced ;
Cmpi R4,='s' ;
Lcall GetServiced ;
Ljmp Collector ;
;
Cmpi R4,='X' ;
Lcall ExitSub ;
Cmpi R4,='x' ;
Lcall ExitSub ;
Ljmp Collector ;
;
Collector Equ $ ;
Ldi R1,=Invalid ;
Ldi R0,=TrapDisplayString ;
Trap MonitorService ;



Clr R0 ;Exit Process
Trap ExitProcess

Page
;------------------------------------------------------------------
; P r o g r a m C o n s t a n t D e c l a r a t i o n s
;------------------------------------------------------------------
Stack Space 0x20
Stacktop Equ $

KClean Space 8
LClean Space 8
TasksDone Space 8

InValid DB "Invalid Input",0x0A,0x0D,0x00
Choice DB "Please Enter Your Choice",0x0A,0x0D,0x00


;-----------------------------------------------------------------
;SubRoutine Info For CleantheKitchen
;
;Clean The Kitchen, Display's A message to the screen Indicating
;That the Kitchen has been cleaned. And sets the Global KClean





;Variable to 1 so the garbage sub can use it.
;
;-----------------------------------------------------------------

CleanTheKitchen Equ $

Push R0
Push R1
Push R5
Push R7

Inc (IX) ;Incriments the
Ld R7,(IX) ;Global Service
Cmpi R7,=3 ;Counter and Checks
Je CallService ;if it is equal to 3

CallService Equ $ ;if it is 3
Lcall GetServiced ;calls the service sub

Ldi R5,="1" ;Loads 1 into the
St (IX+1),R5 ;Kclean Global Variable

Ldi R1,=Kitchen ;display's kitchen has
Ldi R0,=TrapDisplayString ;been cleaned
Trap MonitorService ;

Pop R7
Pop R5
Pop R1
Pop R0

;-----------------------------------------------------------------
;Constants For Kitchen
;-----------------------------------------------------------------

Kitchen DW "The Kitchen Has Been Cleaned",0x0A,0x0D,0x00

Ret