Lets play a game. Traders justify this one.

[Razzitazz]

Originally posted by MrBunny Nt's are just way to powerful. I mean, they can insta kill a fixer the profession with the best evades and evade armor, like nothing. Furthermore its just not fixers they can annihilate with the press of a shorcut key, they can debuff chem ac and start nuking you for chem damage.

If you knew anything you'd realize that the chem debuff cannot be run by any NT alone, and not by some with the 3 mochams it takes. Also, it has been posted in these boards more then once that nuke damage doesn't change with the -5K Chem AC. Weapons based on chem damage shows a difference.

In addition, Funcom gave us this "uber nuke" to "balance" a profession that was, in their opinion, pretty unstoppable. I don't like it, and I don't want it. But drains, on the other hand, demolish everyone. You see? You see unbalace? If drains only hurt NT's and even docs I wouldn't care. But it brings weapon skills to crap as well. So trader crushes everyone.

They dont even have to sit and recharge, just run out of target and wait for HE to refill their nano pool while keeping agro on their target to prevent them from using any kits. And a HOt running on an NT? No need to even heal them!

Each piece of this I read shows that you are a complete joke. Our HE tick every 15 seconds. The nukes usable are doing 761 or 532 nanocost every what, 3 seconds? No need to heal us? What are you smoking?

I've been at tarrasque, and I've seen how uber NT's are. It use to be the case where a group of NT's could wipe out a larger group of soldiers enforcers MA's and Traders like they were nothing. Title Farming? that's nothing compared to how fast some of these NT's jumped in title in a matter of minutes.

An alpha will easily kill people before a SINGLE NT can Kels them to death. Get a group of soldiers with an alpha ready and tell me what target is still alive.

As for titles. You stupid fool, titles mean nothing about uberness. Any profession can get a high title by ganking all day long. Titles = as big a joke as your post.

Traders? They are the first to die in mass PvP so no one ever worries about them. But Nt's those are the ones that need to be nerfed along side soldiers and enforcers.

Traders die first because even the worst trader can take the best player out of the game within seconds. Tell me how you think an enforcer is overpowered. Soldier and NT as well. Being able to defeat someone is not overpowered. Being able to defeat 99% of everyone is. Read my poll and stop thinking that being able to kill someone is a reason to nerf. Being able to dominate a huge group of people is.

[Coldstrike]

Originally posted by MrBunny
Nt's are just way to powerful. I mean, they can insta kill a fixer the profession with the best evades and evade armor, like nothing. Furthermore its just not fixers they can annihilate with the press of a shorcut key, they can debuff chem ac and start nuking you for chem damage.

They dont even have to sit and recharge, just run out of target and wait for HE to refill their nano pool while keeping agro on their target to prevent them from using any kits. And a HOt running on an NT? No need to even heal them!

I've been at tarrasque, and I've seen how uber NT's are. It use to be the case where a group of NT's could wipe out a larger group of soldiers enforcers MA's and Traders like they were nothing. Title Farming? that's nothing compared to how fast some of these NT's jumped in title in a matter of minutes.

Traders? They are the first to die in mass PvP so no one ever worries about them. But Nt's those are the ones that need to be nerfed along side soldiers and enforcers.

Another compilation of nonsense..

[MrBunny]

Originally posted by garzini
i didn't cry for any nerfs. i learned their weakness's. if i couldn't find a weakness, i just didn't fight them. it's that simple. if you don't stand a chance, don't fight.

This is totally right.

Look, what funcom is doing now is to implement their half assed attempt at what some of you people have nick-named rock paper scissors pvp. And although it has some good points, it will probably do more harm than good, (i.e NT's insta killing every profession)

The sad truth was that in reality, there already was a sort of rock paper scissors pvp that existed before Funcom stepped in to "implement" it officially.

But since people usually look for the easy way out, combined with the fact they are trying to nurse a bruised ego after losing to what they initially thought to be an easy fight, they ask for nerfs citing pseudo-logical reasons to justify the nerf.

This is not only the stupidest thing to do, it is the most illogical thing to do. Why is it stupid and illogical?

Funcom is like the government. You can't trust the government to do certain things well that you could just entrust to the private sector for alot less cost and alot higher efficiency. That is to say, you ask for nerfs? You get nerfs. But the nerfs are not well thought out, and as a result you just end up in a much more worse position than you started out in.

Furthermore, why on earth would you want a nerf when you could get a boost to your profession? It's like this:

1st scenario:
You nerf traders, traders get ticked, some leave some will ask for other profession nerfs. More than likely, for your professions' nerf.
Your profession then gets nerfed. In this scenario everyone loses.
The cycle repeats till the next fad, SWG appears on shelves. Where it will probably repeat again.

2nd scenario:
Instead of nerfing traders, just ask for ways to boost your profession. This leaves traders happy, and with their defining ability in-tact. They won't ask to nerf your profession. Your profession gets a boost, that is, a new toy to play with. In this scenario everyone wins.


The only reason I can see why someone would pick the 1st scenario over the second is that they have some sort of grudge against Traders in general. In that case I have to refer to garzini's quote:

if you don't stand a chance, don't fight.

It's hard to believe, but in reality it is that simple.

if u can't winz, runz ur ass awayz.

[MrBunny]

Originally posted by Coldstrike
Another compilation of nonsense..

What is there not to understand? A soldier running a shield that reflects 75% damage is not considered uber? Not only that but you just wait 30 seconds and bam, its up again. Time to reflect some more damage, while shooting with hellspinner a gun that does rad damage.

That's pretty freaking uber. Nothing in comparison to a drain.

[Razzitazz]

Originally posted by MrBunny



What is there not to understand? A soldier running a shield that reflects 75% damage is not considered uber? Not only that but you just wait 30 seconds and bam, its up again. Time to reflect some more damage, while shooting with hellspinner a gun that does rad damage.

That's pretty freaking uber. Nothing in comparison to a drain.

Once again you show you know nothing about the professions to talk about. Now, bear in mind, I'm not saying you should level up a soldier to 200 but at least understand the mechanics behind TMS.

As for garzinis post, yeah, unfortunately that is what most do. If you cant find a weakness, don't fight them. As a matter of fact that is what most people have been doing to traders for a long time. And you nerf drains you say that all of the traders will leave. I don't think thats true. Someone had suggested that it will break like a root after a certain amount of damage is sustained. As long as the AR boost is still on the trader the only ones that will quit will be those that rolled a trader to pvp uber in pvp. Not the ones that have rolled a trader to be a trader.

[Coldstrike]

Ok, here are some constructive ideas to balance drains without kicking traders in their genetalia. Can you high level traders give me your opinion on theese?


How about we start by making drains "Profession = trader" instead of "Visual Profession = Trader", reducing the problem down to only one profession?

And then, find some way to prevent "laddering" drains, since this also is one of the key problems. It is less disruptive to the game balance to have TL6 traders walking around with the best drains than having TL4 ones doing it. A TL6 trader can cast his top two drains without laddering up for it right?

Also, have Abids idea implemented and make the drains hit attack rating only, not the weapon skills themself. The double effect from drains that was introduced in the OE patch is surely not wanted. This would also make the drains work in PvM by significantly reducing the damage from the mob you are fighting.

And finally get rid of the exploit people use to bypass NR. We all know this is being used.

[Coldstrike]

Originally posted by MrBunny



What is there not to understand? A soldier running a shield that reflects 75% damage is not considered uber? Not only that but you just wait 30 seconds and bam, its up again. Time to reflect some more damage, while shooting with hellspinner a gun that does rad damage.

That's pretty freaking uber. Nothing in comparison to a drain.

OK, UNDERSTAND THIS:

Soldiers live longer without using TMS. Yes, that is right. After the critnerf, if I just run RRFE and use OMHH I usually live a lot longer than I would have done if I used TMS. This also applied back before the bracer nerf. Only in the short period between the bracer nerf and before the crit nerf have I been better off using TMS.

The sooner people understand that, the sooner we can have an end to the TMS being brought up in every single discussion on this forum. Always someone using the old "How would you feel if we removed TMS?". Well, I almost wouldn't feel a damn thing, because I only use it under very special conditions.

And nullity roots the NT for the duration. OMG, how hard is it to run out of range when you see the animation of a NT casting nullity? And you know that you got a non healer standing there with 0% reflect when you go back 19 seconds later and unload your specials.

[MrBunny]

Originally posted by Piercingevil
In addition, Funcom gave us this "uber nuke" to "balance" a profession that was, in their opinion, pretty unstoppable. I don't like it, and I don't want it.

So by that same reasoning, Funcom should give all the other professions some kind of nano program that lets us neutralize an NT's NS

For surely you must agree that NS makes an NT just as "unstoppable" as a fixer in ga.

Originally posted by Piercingevil
Our HE tick every 15 seconds. The nukes usable are doing 761 or 532 nanocost every what, 3 seconds? No need to heal us?

What does HE and heals have to do with each other? I'll try to make this sound more simple considering you are confusing HE with HOTs, which is kinda odd considering your an NT. It's like this you fight an agent, and you root them. You run out of range of their weapon but just far enough so that you can keep them in agro range. You wait for ur hot to regen ur Hp, and then you run in with NS, root, nuke, root, nuke, run out of range again waiting for your HOT and HE to bring up your strength to some moderation. Run back in and do the same thing over and over again.

Originally posted by Piercingevil
An alpha will easily kill people before a SINGLE NT can Kels them to death. Get a group of soldiers with an alpha ready and tell me what target is still alive.
[/B]

Nt's would live duh. All running NS, and all chain nuking while rooting? NT's one area nuke, will hit all soldiers. Let's look at it this way, 6 soldiers, will all alpha one or 2 NT's. While the alpha's do jack squat against the NT's NS, the NT's are now chain casting Kel's. One kel will simultaneously hit all 6 soldiers. one soldier vs one NT.

Nerf NTs.

Originally posted by Piercingevil
titles mean nothing about uberness
[/B]

Well I am glad you at least know that. It would then suggest you know something about the game.

The point about NT's gaining titles is to indicate how fast they can kill. Assuming the titles are not farmed but gained legitimately, you can to some degree measure how effective a killing machine the NT is. The nt's gaining apprentice in no more than an hr, shows that their area nukes and NS are way too powerful. What profession can get apprentice in under an hour?? For sure its not the trader, enforcers, soldiers, or anyone else for that matter.

Just the NT.

Its a pretty big indication of uberness that an NT is the only profession that can gain apprentice in under an hour.

Its time for NTs to be nerfed.

Originally posted by Piercingevil
Being able to defeat someone is not overpowered.

ROFL. So that means you agree with me.
It's nice to know then you do actually play the game.

Your right piercing evil, just cause a trader defeats someone does not mean the trader is overpowered.

Originally posted by Piercingevil
Being able to dominate a huge group of people is.

Yep. So Nt's chain casting Kels and wiping out huge groups of people in a tara raid, while keeping their NS up is the same thing as NT's being overpowered.

Nerf NTs. And for that matter, nerf soldiers too since Piercing seems to think that a group of soldiers can wipe out a group of NT's. Piercing must feel that the soldiers are on the same par as NTs. As such they should be nerfed.

[MrBunny]

Originally posted by Coldstrike
Always someone using the old "How would you feel if we removed TMS?". Well, I almost wouldn't feel a damn thing, because I only use it under very special conditions.

That's wonderful you wouldn't notice TMS gone. It not only proves my theory soldiers dont need TMS, and should therefore be nerfed.

Originally posted by Coldstrike
how hard is it to run out of range when you see the animation of a NT casting nullity.

How hard is it to run away when you get drained?
Just zone, like soldiers always do when they cant run TMS, and wait for the debuff to wear off. Run back in go full def, and hope that your NR kicks in enough for you to get your specials on the trader.

[CheeseNips]

Originally posted by MrBunny
blah blah blah plz don't nerf me iwanabeuber blah blah blah

I can fully understand not wanting to be nerfed when you are on the top of the food chain. Unfortunatly not everyone else wants to play a trader.

Nerf the drains to 40% like pvp damage is, and other classes "might" have a chance vs. a trader.

[Coldstrike]

MrBunny, let me just say that you are talking way over your head on the NT issue.

A NT casting a single AE nuke in the box room would probably take more damage himself from all the reflects and damage shields than he would inflict on any single target. Now consider that he has less health than any of his targets, and you will find that the NT would die before anyone else.

The items to neutralize NS is already in game. Soldiers have guns that debuff reflect, engineers have an aura that does the same.

And your example with the NT running out of range.. Well, out of all the rooting classes, only the crat would have less effect from using this tactic. Try doing that with a trader that has actual heals to use on himself while he is out of range. Or a Fixer with two hots. Or even an enf that has the runspeed to outrun anyone while his Mongo hot keeps ticking. Running out of range to heal is not an unique NT ability, and they are nowhere near the best at using it.

[Argulace]

NERF THE DRAINS ALREADY

Nerfing one profession has never been a solution to fix another. It never will be.

IMHO, nerfing anything is a bad idea. It totally discards any type of present or future plans the DEV team might have to bring other professions up to a certain level.

I play a trader. I also have a level 156 Soldier, Enforcer, an Adventurer and a Fixer.

I started the trader at first because I was frustrated with loosing to them and I wanted to understand them.

I have now had the opportunity to pvp with my trader some and I can definately say without any doubt that this trader you speak of was twinked beyond belief (because i know who he is), and I can also definately tell you that he was running buffs from other high levels which is what enabled him to do what he did.

The fact is, any other profession is capable of the same thing to a degree.

Coldstrike, you need to worry a lot more about fixing your profession and worry a lot less about everyone else's professions.

Edit:One last thing, this trader is not level 112. He's level 131 at the moment, and at that time he was around level 124. Just because its grey doesnt mean its level 112, stop assigning arbitrary information.

Arg

[Argulace]

Originally posted by Highjack


Not very bright are you?

Highjack, before you go accusing others of "not being so bright" I highly suggest you educate yourself on traders. I'd say the "dumb" ones in this case were those who assumed something that was inaccurate.

Not to mention, 2/3 of what you have posted is inaccurate, including the level of the trader in question and the arbitrary disregard for the level of power a few buffs from high levels can give you.

Play a trader for a while, go start one. Give it 3 - 4 months, then come back here and tell everyone how they need nerfing. Otherwise, educate yourself before you run overdrive with accusations and half-truths.

[Razzitazz]

Anyone else see Mrbunnys post as ridiculous? Claiming that a NT is as uber as a trader, actually he is saying we are more uber.

Read my poll. Traders can kill any profession with their drain.

A NT can only kill a fixer with ease.

You are very ignorant on this game, I hope no one takes you seriously.

I do agree with argulace. Nerfing is not the answer, but in order to balance drains every other profession would need a boost. Funcom will never do this so nerfing drains would be the only answer.

Why would it being breakable be such a bad thing?

[Coldstrike]

Since Argulace decided to make such a big issue out of someone being off by a few levels in this thread:

Nerfmeee was level 118 the first time he was in MMD that night, then 4-5 hours later he came back and was 120.

Does it really mean a lot if he was 112 or 118? Not really.

[Coldstrike]

Originally posted by Argulace_MoK

Coldstrike, you need to worry a lot more about fixing your profession and worry a lot less about everyone else's professions.

If you look at the soldier forum I have over the last year posted *a lot* of suggestions on how to make the soldier profession more viable. So has many others. And when we finally got our "turn" to have a love patch we got a handful of useless buffs. So being constructive surely did't get us very far now did it?

But this thread is about traders, not soldiers.

[Argulace]

Originally posted by Coldstrike


If you look at the soldier forum I have over the last year posted *a lot* of suggestions on how to make the soldier profession more viable. So has many others. And when we finally got our "turn" to have a love patch we got a handful of useless buffs. So being constructive surely did't get us very far now did it?

But this thread is about traders, not soldiers.

No, this thread is a witch hunt. It's disgruntled people crying because they aren't up to their definition of "par."

People blow things WAY out of proportion, especially when they are on the recieving end of something unpleasant, such as a hot cup of "your not as uber as you thought you were."

Fact is, after running the numbers. This little trader your talking about is different in very few ways from a level 165-170 trader. When you start hitting caps pre - level 150, they come in not very many levels from where this guy was. After that, you get between 3-5 points per skill, per level.

Put mochams on this little trader, give him a nice hp buff and essence. Throw OS on him, give him Shotgun Mastery, add MoP, add a big scope (which he is capable of equipping) and bammo. You got yourself the equivilant of a level 160ish trader.

Fact is, after level 140 or so, traders spend IP on trade skills, thats all they can spend it on. From level 140 to level 175, traders dont change much at all.

The only thing this guy did, was bother to go get all the buffs he needed and exersize his abillity to kick butt with them.

NERF is a four letter word. NERF should not be a word used in the vocabulary of the players, it should be a word only used by FC and only they are qualified to tell us what should and should not be nerfed as they know the over all picture.

Do we know whats happening in Shadowlands? Do we know whats happening next patch? Or the one after that?

Who died and made us gods, omnipitant beings capable of seeing the future and knowing all professions as good as our own?

pfft... Who do you think your kidding?

Go talk about pvp on the pvp board, go talk about soldiers on the soldier board and go bug Zerosignal to get you answers on soldier issues, but dont come here crying nerf on an entire profession because your frustrated with your own.

I think you can see, if you look at this mess... Exactly how rediculous and stupid it is.

[Argulace]

Adding a break debuff nano (Piercingevil) wouldnt be such a bad idea. Thats not a nerf

[-kromoz-]

Originally posted by Coldstrike
A TL6 trader can cast his top two drains without laddering up for it right?

wrong

[Razzitazz]

Originally posted by Argulace_MoK
Adding a break debuff nano (Piercingevil) wouldnt be such a bad idea. Thats not a nerf

Well I think the overall point, and posting things like "nerf drains" really come down to just that. Something needs to be done. All these players like Noer and Mrbunny really, honestly think traders are not overpowered, and in some instances underpowered.

Read my poll in my sig. Do you think any profession should have that huge advantage? And if you do, should it be the one who also is the master of tradeskills?