Not too sure how ARMOR works

[Nefastor]

I've found a tank armor QL 67 and managed to put it on at level 62. I thought, gee, +370 to Impact / Energ / Melee AC's will make me unkillable !

Well so much for invincibility. Tank armor was useless.

I tested it like so :
- Attack a mob (+/- 5 levels compared to me)
- Check the damage while putting and removing the armor during fight. Tested against half a dozen different mobs

Without armor, the mob would always do the same damage (say 55, 150 crit). Is it it's MIN or MAX damage ? I have no idea...

With the armor, damage was ABSOLUTELY unchanged ! Except for one thing : due to tank armor penalities on evades it seemed the mob would crit more often.

So I ended up spending 20000 IP in Strength and Stamina just to wear an armor that actually made me weaker.

Am I the only one here that finds this is little... STUPID ?

Any RPG I've played in the last 10 years (computer or paper & dice), putting on MORE armor would result in getting hurt LESS. Same as real life.

So I'd like someone to explain me exactly HOW armor works in AO, and why I should try to always get the highest AC's.

To Funcom : would it be possible to have a rule-book, like convential RPG's always have ? You know, the guide that tells you how you determine initiatives, damage, shielding, spell effets, powers, alignments, classes and all the hardware you can use ? That would REEEEEELLLLY help people.

Because as it is, it's trial and error :
- Find a cool item that really looks useful
- Spend one or two levels worth of IP's so you can use it
- Discover that said item is more useless than a bunch of Bill Gates at an OS stability symposium.

In the end, you boost stuff you don't really need (like Strength) and lack the IP for the really important stuff (like Evades) and at level 200 your character is a perfect misfit.

[crazyhorse]

I will try to give you basic explaination.... The reason why armour effect seemed unchanged was because once you reach a certain point in relation to mobs (AC wise) you reach a point where mobs will only be able to do minimum damage on you.... However, if you were to do those same tests on mobs beyond the min damage limit (+20 or +30 lvls above) you will begin to see some effect of having higher AC...

The mobs you were fighting were too weak to break that min barrier but go a bit higher and you will see a difference...

A somewhat basic explaination as to why you see no differece...

[Nefastor]

Still, there should be a way to know if you have reached an AC level where mobs can only do minimum damage. That would be helpful, to decide wether or not to upgrade your armor kit.

[Blackwing]

if a mob is around your level (greenish) then you will be amply protected if your armor is between 20-30 times of your level.

you will note that you need to upgrade your armor if the damage you receives is not consistant (then they are past the min damage doh).

however i think - do not quote me on that since its more of a hunch then anything - that the mob level compared to your level also plays a part in how much damage you receive.

i could swear that mission ql that nearly ate me alive were easier once i had a couple of dings under my belt and the mobs went from blood red to deep orange.

[Mercatura]

ACs aren't all that effective in the long run, min dmg is pretty high.

Min damage is easy to see...its always exactly the same. (barring crits)

I run around with ~7k ACs all the time (drains) and I only see a change on bossmobs and some rm/ace. Even then not always that much.

RRFE is more effective than a 5k AC buff would be.

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by Malevol
Still, there should be a way to know if you have reached an AC level where mobs can only do minimum damage. That would be helpful, to decide wether or not to upgrade your armor kit.

if they hit you for the EXACT same damage all the time they are capped, if it varies just slightly then you are at the cusp if it varies normally then get more ac

[Skymarshal]

This is a factor of minimum damage for sure.

My guess as to why this is, is to prevent people like us players, from not doing Damage to mobs that have insane AC, and to prevent twinks from being gods in missions because they have insane AC.


The one thing that I would like to point out is that it would be really nice if AC was much more effective than it currently is. Thats just a dream, but heres for hoping

[Nefastor]

It is true that players and mobs aren't matched but then it's quite common in RPG's (even the paper & dice RPG's)

For the sake of completeness, I'll mention the usual fight between me and an mob exactly of same level (I dual-wield sleekmaster classic) :

- Fight starts with a burst, taking out less than 10% of the mob's HP in most cases.
- Monotonous shoot-out : NPC deals up to 80 hits per attack, in the same time I attack two or three times for up to 160 hits.
- Sporadic use of first aid kit, usually once per fight, only to be safe
- Mob gets wooped, I never have less than half my HP remaining, most of the time over 70% remains : healed in a second, XP is about 2200-2300 (I'm level 62)

Fighting a pair of mobs brings me down to 30% HP if they are at my level.

I'd say it's quite normal for any video game : players always get to bash the bad guys firmly, because they are the good guys. And after all, they have to take on the whole world entirely on their own.

Note : I'm not twinked, in anyway. And I still use only TMS 2, which is of little (if no) effect when soloing. I do run the usual soldier nanos :AC and HP buffs, attack buffs and the rather useless +10 damage buff.

[Mercatura]

Always buff your longterm reflect. Big help. Drop the crap damage buffs if you don't have enough ncu.

[Nefastor]

Oh my NCU are OK (88 at level 62), I can run about ten progs at once (shields, buffs, basic regen mostly)

In fact, I start any mission by a good "start-up" session in the entrance room of the dungeon

Still, I'd like to point out that reflect and mirror shields are not THAT useful : first ones do very light damage (equivalant to one additionnal attack every 20 attacks, or +5% damage, yay !) and TMS lasts only 25% of any decent fight, again doing insufficent damage given that NPC's have insane ammounts of HP (bet they eat their cereals every day, like mommy said )

GIVE US SOLDIER SOME FRICKEN USEFUL NANO'S ! Some suggestions :
- Eat hot lead : faster burst recycle
- Lead Salad : even faster burst recycle
- Mexican Stand-Off : some kind of init / evade buff ?
- Harsh language : scare into running stupid professions that have nothing to do on a battlefield : traders, bureaucrats... (buffs running speed of the target)

[_________Steelwraith]

While the damage done by your reflect shields might not be significant...they do reduce the damage you take by anywhere from 10-30% (TMS does 75%).

If TMS only lasts 1/4 of a fight, then even a 10% reflect shield will probably eliminate more damage.

[________________Miir]

Still, I'd like to point out that reflect and mirror shields are not THAT useful : first ones do very light damage (equivalant to one additionnal attack every 20 attacks, or +5% damage, yay !) and TMS lasts only 25% of any decent fight, again doing insufficent damage given that NPC's have insane ammounts of HP


As Steel mentioned, its not the amount of damage reflected which makes the difference, its the damage deflected.

Here's an example.

You could easily be using Deflection Shield (Extended).
It has 196MC/161TS requirements.
It reflects 10 damage back to the attacker.
It deflects 14% of all damage dealt to you.

If you get hit 15 times in a fight for 100 damage, you will have deflect 210 damage, thus allowing you to withstand another 2-3 hits.

The highest level reflect shield (RRFE) deflects a whopping 30% of all damage dealt to you. At 150+ when mobs are hitting for 300-400 and critting for up to 1300, RRFE makes a tremendous difference.


GIVE US SOLDIER SOME FRICKEN USEFUL NANO'S

Soldiers have a decent selection of nanos now with the new weapon skill buffs (despite the ridiculous reqs on them).
Reflect shields are the single most desired buff for PvP.



- Eat hot lead : faster burst recycle
- Lead Salad : even faster burst recycle

Since special attack cycle are based on weapon speed (and apparently now, init), such a nano would be rather tricky to implement.


- Mexican Stand-Off : some kind of init / evade buff ?

Soldiers already get both evade and init buffs.
Offensive Steamroller is the best init buff in game (+133 to all).
You could easily be using Attack Booster (+43) at your level.
Precognition gives a +55 boost to all evades.


- Harsh language : scare into running stupid professions that have nothing to do on a battlefield : traders, bureaucrats... (buffs running speed of the target)

Enforcers and MAs get fear nanos.
Would be cool if soldiers got a few as well.