Cz and comunity:Super mobs need new and modified loot rules

[Xeni]

I write this post, to try give some ideas why i dont think the current way of looting works for super-mobs like Tara and the Obediency Enforcer.
Please read this, and bump or come with own suggestion. I also would like to say that this is a very important issue, and it need to be adressed fast, as it direclty related to high-level content of the game

First of all, this is mobs which need cooperation of more people that there is room for in one team to kill. Although T can be killed by one team, there is need for teams to make sure this team are able to do that, defending the box room etc.

To get a mob like the OE killed, it takes 5 hours for 40 ppl or so.
Therefore i think you FC has failed terribly, when you not has updated the loot system, along with introducing new more diffecult Uniqes.

Some argue that ninja looting could very easily be avoided by making no items 'no drop', but FC has stated that they will keep them to avoid griefing and make people actually go and get stuff themselfes. This idea i support.

There is here the whole problem lies, the seconds when a person who won loot rights after damage dealing, are to close loot window so person that won raffle for a no drop item can get that one.
This is the BIG time for the ninja looter, which we all hate. I mean the opertunity to ninja should be removed completly, and should been introduced the same time FC introduced camelot dungeon. This is alot better suggestion IMO, than ideas like FC should start to bann ninjaers and alike.

But before i come to my solution i would point out some other problems, that need to be adressed same time.

Tonight with the OE in EFP, which took us like 80 minutes or so to kill, mainly two things happen:
People went LD or crashed, and lost the chat group that was set up, and they lost their team.
This also resets all the damage the team has done.

My idea, is that we need a super-team introduced, which people join to kill one mob, either like T or the OE.
Through being a member in a superteam, the player first of all get acsess to a chat, in the same way tarabot and acambot has offered. This chat the player get acsess to easily if he/she happen to go LD/crash in the middle of a fight.
2nd the super-team, let all members see what loot they come by.
3rd it has a raffle function, which delivers no drop object to the winner without chance for ninja looters to come inbetween.

No system is perfect, and i see flaws for this too.
Here is some suggestions:
1:Who are let or who is letting people into the superteam.
-Can make it either that 1 superteam is made for each side of the conflict, but must also have the options to invite players of other alignment.
-The option for ppl to make competing super-teams.

Another problem is that until know team doin most damage get loot. I support that idea, and would like to keep that. To integrate this with the super-team idea, is that the superteam with the team doin most dmg, get loot. Another idea, is that super-team adds all dmg for all members, but i think thats not realistic to do it that way.

This is just my ideas. What i want, is that there will be no chance to ninja loot at all. That this is possbile now, i feel is FC fault. I think it brings alot of hatred to the game, that is no good. Im aware of the story-conflict of RK, but the hatred this ninja looting brings to the conflict between clan and omni (and sometimes also within a side), dont bring anything more to the story and it dosent bring any good to the community.

I think this change would make this game better, and still worth it to kill the new 'high-level content' mobs. Else im afraid it all will flop.

Please post views or bump. Would also be interesting if you have any comments on this Cz, before the weekend tales you away from us

[Zerosignal]

Well i'm of the opinion that items like this should start in dorment form, or perhaps be allowed to be traded once within a timelimit of one hour......

Because if your the unfortunate person who happens to get the loot rights on a mob like the Obedience Enforcer, like i was today all you can do is sit there with ninjas around you waiting for them loot when you goto transfer the loot to someone, or sit tight and wait till the damn thing decays.....

Now if the item was allowed to be picked up and traded Once with in a 1 hour period it would solve these problems.....

[_____________Brandon]

I think all 18 hour MOB loot should be just UNIQUE and not NODROP. It just dose not make sense to have it NODROP.

[Spluggorth]

um,,
idea, how about that the current looter( the one that has the looting rights of the corpse, Can give looting rights to anyone he chooses by a /loot command??

that would end Ninja looting, and yea up the timelimit before anyone else outside that /loot command can loot the mob.
for those that finds corpses some peeps just ignore but still want to loot em. That way the looter,can open window, relay the contents to the team, Event army whatever, they raffle it, the winner gets selected by current looting rights owner and he passes those same rights over by /loot command.

maybe its hard to make i dunno, but it sure would be nifty

[_______________Vydas]

UNIQUE and NODROP are, in my opinion, two of the worst concepts for 'stuff' ever introduced into online gaming. It was a bad idea when EQ implemented it and it has not improved with age.

[________________Caol]

I said this in my thread, but it seems Zerosignal beat me to it. Sorry, Zero.

IMO, it would be alot better if we got a much more sophisticated
loot system. The looter loots, and has 2 hours to give out items.
I.E no loot would be NODROP when looted from boss. But once
they changed owner one time, they would activate and become
the usable NODROP weapon/armor/item whatnot.

[Cz]

Good thread, and good suggestions. I'll bring it all to the designers.

[Darkbane]

Originally posted by Emperor Prozek
idea, how about that the current looter( the one that has the looting rights of the corpse, Can give looting rights to anyone he chooses by a /loot command??

Pretty much what I was going to suggest. Its not perfect, but no method will ever be, but at least it allows the person or team which gets looting rights to pass it on to someone else in the team or in another team if they have no use for it.

Or the modified NODROP where the item is spawned in a tradeable form, but once looted from the corpse, it remains in that form for only a few minutes (at most) before transforming into its NODROP form. A bit like how overtuned tank can decay after a certain in-game time (so the mechanism already exists at least in part).

[Arinia]

Originally posted by Wo "Caol" Ha
I said this in my thread, but it seems Zerosignal beat me to it. Sorry, Zero.

2 Hours is almost too long. 30 minutes should be plenty.

You want enough time to transfer the item to the proper winner, barring any crashes, Link Deaths. You also don't want to give the looter enough time to auction the item ingame OR on ebay.

[DaveDread]

/team loot other %t

Target the person who should recieve the looting rights, and a command to transfer it.

This will keep the possibility of one a "bad guy" team outdamaging the others and keeping the loot for themselves, and give the "good guy" teams a way to pass the loot right to the winner of a raffle or whoever they choose.

Quick and easy.

[MartekO]

I support the idea of some way to move the loot right around to chosen players. The ways presented above, for transferring loot rights from player to player, are good ones, in my opinion.

I have an idea about an additional way to augment moving loot around but no time at the moment to present it, so will do that later. Don't recall having seen it before.

Cheers,
Martek

[Jayde]

Adding NODROP tags would NOT help camping! It never has, it never will! lol

The key to keeping something uncamped is for it to have a smaller spawn time. It's that simple. The boss mobs with smaller spawn times are not camped as much.

Simple rule of thumb:

Value
   |                                  /
   |                                 |
   |                                /
   |                           --'''
   |                      ---''
   |           -------''''
   |----'''''''
   ------------------------------------ Spawn Time (hrs)
   0   2   4   8   10  12  14   16   18

Camping is a coefficient of Rarity vs. Value. Mob with UBER PHAT LOOT and 18 HOUR SPAWN will be CAMPED TO HIGH HEAVEN.

The addition of NODROP tag simply assures that MORE people have to camp the mob. Many people want the items in question, all of them are capable of camping, but most of them dislike camping. Many people simply plan to buy items instead of camping for them. However, if they are forced to camp for them, they probably will camp for them.

Also, another good suggestion would be to have ANY uber boss mob drop at least as many items as people needed to kill it. A boss which requires at least 6 teams should not drop 3 pieces of loot.

Just my 2 credits.

-Jayde

[Skymarshal]

Bump to this thread

[Naraya]

You'd think they would've learned by now that putting uber items on a single mob would cause excessive camping and excessive ninja looting. Putting rare items in the game at all leads to excessive camping and ninja looting because....everyone wants them...they're "unique"..."rare"..."uber".

The worst side effect that this system of loot has is that it is putting a big dent in the overall fun factor of the game. Who wants to sit around and rebuff themselves three times before even starting to kill one SINGLE mob that is going to take more than three hours to kill for pieces of loot? And then after its all said and done and your brain and fingers are sort of numb from blasting out 1000+ nukes, heals, specials, stims, etc..., who wants to watch a bunch of people engage in a flame war over a piece of loot?

The second worst side effect that this system of loot has is that when you put items on a single mob that requires 40+ people to kill, you are encouraging congregation and congregation in this game is very very bad thing (bad enough to where the idea of a crowd limiting system is actually being entertained by the devs.) Well...what do you think putting items on a single mob that takes massive amounts of people does? It overcrowds the area obviously. During the Obedience Enforcer incident, I watched almost everyone go link dead at one time or another.

It is about time that they get rid of the all this unique, once-in-a-blue-moon-on-a-night-where-the-planets-in-every-planetary-solar-system-in-our-galaxy-are-perfectly-lined-up-with-that-gaping-black-hole-in-the-center-of-this-galaxy-style loot that only drops off of a single mob on a ridiculous spawn timer with despawn capabilities that has ludicrous amounts of HP, evades, and nano resist and make all of the very best items in the game producable via tradeskill with the raw components needed to make those items obtainable from multiple sources and not all of them requiring killing to obtain. I'm sick of hearing people say PvP is "uber-item-based", I'm sick of the devs neglecting the one aspect of the game that could make things much better for two professions specifically while improving the entire game as a whole (one new producable item per patch is UNACCEPTABLE), and I'm way more sick of hearing about incidents involving something as material and as trivial as a piece of loot.

/me looks for a friendly Crat and offers some creds for more coffee..

[Xeni]

NODROP exists, and i think they will not remove them. I started this thread to modify the loot rules according to this, from these super bosses. Its easy to start your own thread if where topic could be if 'NODROPs should exits at all'. Maybe some already has made own thread about that.

-The idea with the item being tradeable, like in a container for a little while is not bad. But then the object become nearly 'free', and there would be a chance to trade, and people will abuse this, that i know for sure.
-If this way was to be used, the item should only be allowed traded once, it should also be only allowed to traded to people present at the site, as if they got loot, and a tracking would be needed which detects whetever it got traded to the person who won raffle or not.

-then there is problem that people crash, lds, get killed etc., thats why i suggested this idea for a superteam, that takes this into consideration.

I just mean there should be no chance to run off or ninja loot the item at all.

[Jayde]

Sorry to drag the topic "off course" so to speak, but what I'm speaking against is your premise that NODROP tags stop camping.

They don't.

Every 18-hour spawn is camped to high-heaven, even if the items are NODROP. The most-wanted Tara drops are NODROP, and it does not keep Tara from being camped.

NODROP tags make ninja looting, camping, etc. MORE prevelant, not less. People should be free to do whatever they want with these items. As long as they know that they have one chance, and once chance only to get an item...they will be driven to Ninja, cheat, or otherwise camp the heck out of specific loot.

The people determined to get items will get them no matter what, everyone else be damned. Introducing or suggesting a method to "reduce" camping that will only result in more camping and thievery is not a good idea, IMO.

"Oh, I was supposed to trade you UBER LEET ITEM OF DOOM within the 30 minute tradeable window? Sorry... I went AFK. Guess I gotta keep it? *snicker*"

-Jayde

[Xeni]

I have never said that NODROPs stops camping.
To discuss yes or no to nodrops, and read my opinion, go here:

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...threadid=70209

off topic:Nice DB u got Jayde I may have missed it, but is it possible to get a show all items button/option from a search on one page. Would love that

[Isgrimnur]

Originally posted by Vydas
UNIQUE and NODROP are, in my opinion, two of the worst concepts for 'stuff' ever introduced into online gaming. It was a bad idea when EQ implemented it and it has not improved with age.

yup i totally agree. want to prevent farming? tell me how ppl can farm tara or that big bot we took down. anything that requires massive people to kill means no one person is ever going to farm that stuff.

Look at the tara loot that is nodrop and that is dropable...the nodrop stuff could be benefited to many chars if it was able to move around. Also with duping not occuring anymore and team loot msg, you know who got what so . . .

[Xeni]

With chance that others has mentioned this in other thread, with the pioneer backpack, we got that by using a /claim command.

If im allowed to make guess, this command is similar to GMs commands that spawns item for themselves. This show that there isnt necesary that loot have to spawn in corpe of mobs.

To combine these two ideas, the '/claim' command can then instead be used by the rightful winner to get his item. This way the, the NODROP dont have to get a period where it can be moved around and it cant be ninjaed. No chance to ninja other valuable loot either if same is applied to them.

With this system, more people could get some kind of loot, for example could evryone who partipated in killing the OE, get a 'Bolt from Obedience Enforcer' with description:' Having this bolt, shows that you contributed to kill the OE'.

I think also FC should consider making a ingame raffle system, whetever or not they go for a 'superteam' idea, as the chatbots sometimes can be unstable or not always unavailable.

[_______________Vyker]

Here's a suggestion that would work to fix both the need for a large group and the LD issue.

1) Non-XP sharing team.
2) Setup like a temp chat channel but with a box (non-xp share) that would allow it to be differenticated from a normal temp chat.
3) Everyone in the team would be treated to the same rules as a normal team in regards to loot rights and the leader being able to kick/invite etc.

What this accomplishes for us is a huge group that can take down large mobs that require more then a single team of folks. Since it's No XP share if someone goes LD during the fight the damage isn't lost (no exploit if there's no xp eh?) And gives simple loot rights to easily control.

A secondary add to this would be a leader command of /team loot *person*

This would give ONLY that person the right to loot the mob in the team. To make this work properly when the person that opens the mob releases it for the correct person to loot, the body remains in team control with a 30 second window for that person to get there to open the corpse and loot. If they don't make it by then, well tough.

Ideas? thoughts? am i out of my mind as usual?