Hate thread #1: Sneak attack and Aim shot in PvP.

[Snee]

"The Aimed Shot is the Snipers favourite skill. Using this, he or she may attack from a hidden position, doing an extra amount of damage to his opponent. It is vital that you are not detected when executing this attack, as then it will count as a normal attack."

Seems to me this can be interpreted in two ways:

1.
- Aimed Shot is always possible
- If hidden and undected add an extra amount of damage.
- If unhidden and therefor detected it will count as a normal attack

2.
- Only if hidden is Aimed Shot possible
- If undetected when performing the aimed shot add an extra amount of damage
- If detected when performing the aimed shot it counts as a normal attack


How about Agents get interpretation No.1 and all other professions interpretation No.2 .. At least the attack will fit the description. But in both cases make a Trade Skill process were the X-3 can be modified to include Fling Shot .. an Agent only rifle.

[Palmero]

Patk9 i dont know how to tell you this... but wouldent this game suck ARSE if only Soldiers wher aloved to use FA and agents AS
games that wont alove the players to creat ther chars the way they want the to sux so much its inpossible to play them..

if they made AS and seak attack to skills you needed conceal to use all the NTs whit X-3 would be nerft like hell (we cant gett enuf conceal) and i dont think angents could do good AS on somone whit a preseption buff running (the semi new Hard core preseption buffs)

i would stop useing a X-3 and start useing a FA gun, and what happens when they nerf that to some Soldier only thing.. well then we will have Braw and dimach (and you have a thread wher you say that dimach sux) so the NTs/doc/trader/crat/engis would be nerft like hell (and i dont think Crats/NTs/enigis/traders and docs should be nerft like hell)

this nerf is only pointed att all the proffessions that dosent have any uber weapon skills/MA skills.
this is also a nerf to all the professions that cant heal becous we need fast damage to kill the opponet befor ther massiv heals will out live the damge output (NTs, crats,enigs,agents)

so i think this is a Bad idea dont kick on the professions that needs help (not counting Traders and docs :P)
nerfing this wont help pvp it will only make it even more easy for the healer and harder for the nts,crats,engis and agents

[Canto]

Trying to apply semantic distinctions to specials is counterproductive. As has been said time and time again, in this thread and others, we are not playing a realistic game where you can pull out the pencils and dice and figure something out. This is a scifi/fantasy game. The only legitimate argument that AS should be from a concealed position in PvP is that the status quo is unbalanced. No one can make that argument because it's just not true. So you nerf criers resort to "I don't like it because it doesn't fit my definition." This is the WEAKEST sort of argument in a game like this. If you are coming to the table with a proposed nerf of all the ranged classes (and i could give a rats about sneak, it is just a straw man for you nerfers) and a nerf that would hurt classes that are weak already, BACK IT UP with something besides lame dictionary definitions of how YOU think something should be. If you can't demonstrate that it is unbalancing the game, you are not making any sense.

I wonder what all the rifle users in the chief nerf crier's guild (of which he is president no less) think of this thread. Are you comfortable with the fact that the president of your guild is vociferously trying to nerf you?

[________________Gold]

Make AS insta kill.
Make AS agent only.


If you want it like pvm...ok, nerf AS, but give my agent the hp, nanoresist and ac of a boss his level (mid 170's atm). Then we'll talk.

[_____________arsiine]

fine with me if you let agents conceal while under attack in PvP. this removes all other profs with fast recharge from AS repition by restoring AS to its rightfull owner. It also give agents a new tactic keeping in mind we cannot do ANYTHING while concealed without breaking conceal. We are still subject to the 10 second conceal rule so we cant shoot, hide, shoot, hide. We can still be detected by perception, area nukes, area buffs.

And for those of you thinking, "WAH WAH thats not realistic how can they just disapear". Get a clue, how realistic is it for people to be shooting at eachother with shotguns at 2 meters distance for 2 mins.

For the rest of you, if you want to cry for nerfs I can throw it right back in pretty much every one of your professions faces.

[_______________Airty]

The idea was for unconcealed AS/SA to be like a fling shot, or so FC said, yet it didnt happen. For agents, they are nothing w/o AS in middle of fights, hos do you start a 6 second nano, conceal, attack, AS in 6 seconds? you dont. So leave AS, SA shoulkd be nerfed tho because your in my face in the middle of arena... um i can see you.

Anoter Irrevolent idea. Why cant you Aim at a mob that is mezzed from point blank and pull off an AS? it should work yet make high AS damage classes uber

[_____________arsiine]

The reason agents are crying about your proposed nerf is that there are many times in PvP where we are not concealed at the start of the fight. We get jumped, we are in tara, we are in a team with speeches running, we are at 2ho where the lvl 20 guards can spot 2000+ conceal. You are assuming that we always have the option to conceal and gain at least 1 aimed shot. This is not the case.

Also, I did read the rest of your threads pat, and I do give props for suggesting we can conceal while under attack. I have had this idea for quite a long time now.

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...threadid=62835

[Shadelore]

Personally I think AS works perfectly as it does now.

The reason for this thread really have to do with special recharge, not AS or SA.

Seems like last patch the recharge on the specials with fast guns, e.g 1/1.5 ones have dropped dramatically, giving some SMGs a 8 second burst recharge, and as for AS, some wellknown shotties about 20 second recharge.

It have not been mentioned here, but I assume that if you have a weapon that fast with FA on you would be able to FA every 20 seconds as well...

As an agent using a slower rifle, I never get more than one AS off before the fight is over, and trying to make this naything that I must be concealed or any bull**** to do, would make it utter useless, its like saying a soldier need to be lying down with his weapon well supported to do a FA and be able to hit anything...

The issue here is special recharge on quick weapons, not AS or SA...
Rather ask FC if its intended that specials will recharge faster the quicker your weapon is ? If so, all is fine, go and adjust, if not, well...make em as they were prepatch..

[Isgrimnur]

Pat,

I am amazed u call for this nerf. As an adventurer, I am amazed you don't use mantis scissors for sneak attack in pvp. You get the same chance as these ithaca users to do a nice special.

IMO there are way better things you can cry about than this. Like for example, dark blue brawl/dimach on a melee advent.

Sounds like aimshot isnt the problem, sounds like ithaca is the problem. I totally agree, this gun is a problem.

I have both an adventurer and an agent. As having both (and I mean both that are title 6, not noobs) I can see a lot of what all the sides are talking about. Agents need AS. The reason my advent is melee instead of x-3/ithaca is I was tired of aimshot being the only special and that it is VERY inconsistant in damage. As an agent with like...hmm 1k aimshot skill, I should do 8-10k on mobs and 40% in pvp, it just doesn't work that way. Most of the time I do 500-1000 in pvp and do 1500-4500 in pvm.

My advent has a bigger problem with those "profs" that use aimshot ithacas - mainly they are: traders/docs/MAs (before 14.6)

The traders/docs debuff are way more unbalancing than any aimshot.

So pat wondering, just whats the beef here? As another adventuer who is pretty much the same as you in lvl/skills, just curious. (my beef is debuffs from traders/docs are too 1 sided, but i aint screaming nerf yet)

[Portulis]

Huh?

Lets throw away the titles of the special and just say we have different kinds of specials available in game. The names of the specials (fling, burst, aimed, burst, full auto, brawl, fast attack, sneak attack) are loosly based on reality, but the key word here is loosely.

Each special is a little different, and each profession can make use of each of them, to varying degrees of effectiveness, depending on skill and weapon type. With limited IP we all have to make choices on weapons and specials we wish to use.

The specific special in question here is Aimed Shot. Should its use be altered? Is it overpowering? I think not, and the other question here is why should one profession be given exclusive use of a special that any profession with available IP is free to use?

For most professions aimed shot is a dark blue skill, and can't be title maxed until deep into level 5. If someone has spent their limited IP to raise a skill why shouldn't they be allowed to use it?

The weapon mentioned here was an Ithica....yes, it is a fast AS recharge gun, but the downside is the poor normal damage and clearly those with 8% scopes are not overpowering with them.

To do a nerf like Pat is suggesting would mean certain classes would descend further down on the PVP food chain-is this what is needed?

[Patk]

I give up, im trying to explain to you guys how i dont want a nerf but you just wont listen and i see day after day more attention comming here and ignoring what im TRYING to say, seems so much more got added in that wasnt meant by me.

[Snee]

"We don't want Traders nerfed, we just want better Team Heals than them" - A lot of Doctors about 6 months ago

[________________Gold]

Originally posted by Patk9
I give up, im trying to explain to you guys how i dont want a nerf but you just wont listen and i see day after day more attention comming here and ignoring what im TRYING to say, seems so much more got added in that wasnt meant by me.

u don't want nerf, u just want to remove the only special most agents use...well ok...I don't want nerfs, but I think ma's self only crit nanos should be removed, and they should only be able to use mark nanos.

Oh, and I don't think soldiers should be able to cast shields...and traders shouldn't be able to debuff...and ....

yeah, whatever

[stromm]

i'd have to agree with the proposal of aimed shot doing more if you get it off when you're concealed. Don't nerf the current AS damage though when you shoot it out in the open...But sneak attack, come on man...you think an atrox enforcer can sneak well? lol.

Good damage in PvP has been buried too deep. Not another six feet, please.

[Letah]

Originally posted by Snee
"We don't want Traders nerfed, we just want better Team Heals than them" - A lot of Doctors about 6 months ago

Lol yeah, dont get me started Thought about that too when I read this. Too bad pat, it's how these forums work I guess.

[assassimon]

Originally posted by Letah


Lol yeah, dont get me started Thought about that too when I read this. Too bad pat, it's how these forums work I guess.

FIX! BUMP! NERF! *HUGGLES*

[________tavumebottes]

try to remember the way AS works
AS is very powerfull now in PvM but not realy in PVP
try to figure that fast recharge means often (river/ithaca) low regular dmgs and high crit
with river (my current weapon)
a regular AS is 300
if i get multiplier even with highest one i ll get 2100 (with a X7)
wich means 1K in pvp for the best regular AS
AS critical hit are lended 50% less often
yes u will sometimes get a 40% Aimed shot but not that often and with weapon that are hardly hitten by the crit nerf

with long recharge weapon like neuraldisruptor it s another story
u ll have a lot of huge AS as even a regular AS is 3K and as with a scope u have a so high AS skill it s easy to get Multiplier
so a lot of 40% in pvp but with a very long recharge time (consistant dmgs but less often like dimach )

but i agree theres a prob with SA / AS
with AS u do max dmgs wich is better on non critical hits
and u have some more item to raise AS u dont have for SA (like vision enhancer wich add 350 in AS) so it s easier to get high multiplier with AS

dont nerf AS improve SA

[Lokgen]

It's a never ending wheel of nerf cry babies and loser's. Patk9 deletes his nerf post only_to_in later postings defend his now deleted nerf whining. Then new morons with /played days 1 jump in to add their valuable nerf strategy to the now snowballing non existant nerf post deleted by the non nerf whiner_com_ nerf whiner Patk9. Borrace now has to add in his ill conceived but brilliant ! *unified nerf theory !. You guys make me sick.


My god

Lokgen RK2