Boss at the end of the rail tracks.
He doesnt drop it everytime though.
Boss at the end of the rail tracks.
He doesnt drop it everytime though.
And there's always some bunghole whose entire game session consists of sitting and waiting for him to spawn and kill him over and over and then sell the ring on the forums.Originally posted by Ratty
Boss at the end of the rail tracks.
He doesnt drop it everytime though.
Even saw some guy named 'Subwaycamper' there. This whole game is getting out of hand with respect to camping.
Can't even get a damn ring for myself because of the jackasses.
I saw a few people in a guild called "Subway Cleaners". The guy's name was Brutus or something like that, level 30 atrox enforcer wearing CAS armor.
I asked him was going all the way to 30 make that big a diff, rather than just staying at 24 so he could leave and come back if he wanted.
At that, he felt he needed to compare himself, a fully twinked out atrox enforcer's HP/ACs, to my character in there, a solitus crat, saying, "if you have that much HP/AC i'll be impressed". So you can't even talk to these people without them bragging and comparing their twinked out characters to you.
So, just driving my point home, they need to nerf the loot in there so it's only something low levels want, then the scumbags will have no motivation to rob the real newbies of loot because that loot would be of no use to their high level alts.
I think the belt would be good since its 3 slots, but why the F does it have a clan requirement?
Vegabond cloak also great thing for very low levels.
Morphing memory, again really great for low levels, very clever.
The big problem is that ring. Just take away the motivation for these campers and they'll go away. The level limit on the subway was a great idea, it just needs to be continued because the greedy twinkers were already a step ahead. At least spare the newbies of what the rest of the dungeons are like.
Last edited by Ratty; Nov 16th, 2002 at 14:32:55.
Ever tried getting a Custom Desert Reet off the Lab Director? It's NODROP, therefore should be easy to get, right? Wrong. =POriginally posted by Ratty
Neleb's is quite uber to a level 36, minimum level to wear it.
It's also a very good item for high level, for when you are close to casting some nano and +8 will let you cast that nano when you're buffing up.
NODROP helps a ton, if something easy to kill like Neleb dropped an ok item like the cloaks, people would be stocking up on dozens of them, robbing any newbies that come in there to kill him for the cloak itself.
Compare Neleb with say, lab director, who always has some high level non-burocrat up there camping for the forms.
Imagine if TIM scope wasnt nodrop.
It's just absurd to say that nodrop doesn't help, I'm grateful for nodrop, then I have a chance of getting some loot without having to compete with farmers. Then you're just left with high level friends or guildmates of somebody, helping them to get the item for someone, but at least they have to do it when the person who wants the item is present, or can get there quickly.
Oh yes, and the Gaily Painted Hood being NODROP has really helped Tara become less camped, despite the fact that that's the #1 item everyone wants?
If someone camped Neleb, and he spawns every 30 mins... They could fill up their inventory in a matter of hours, NODROP or not. In fact, a camper could get more cloaks than they could ever possibly want what to do with in the normal 18 hour timespan. (Having 36 cloaks would be a bit much, don't ya think?) Not only that, they would be worth jack squat, due to how common they were. There are far more (better) normal items with much more uncommon drop rates.
Even boss loot would be more rare, in that case--and most of it doesn't even go for 500K. Camping = Spawn Time (and drop rarity) vs. Value (or usefulness of item) Neleb would be just as camped as any of the other mobs if he was on an 18 hour timer.
At any rate... let's go over what this boss drops...
1) A ring that adds 10 MM/MR
2) A 3-slot belt usable by only clanners
Also consider:
a) There are three versions of the dungeon running at any time (Clan, Omni, Neut)
b) Boss is on ~1 hour timer
Somehow, the argument that making him easier would cause him to be camped constantly by high-levels just doesn't make a lot of sense.
The funny thing is...all the drops in there are very regular, very common, and extremely non-useful to a high-level. You know how many Morphing Memory's you can farm in an hour? About the only rare drop down there is the NCU ring, and it is limited to around 20 NCU, IIRC... It also drops off the first (and easiest) boss.
Once the "oooohhahhhh" factor has worn off, there will be no reason to camp this dungeon at all. It was designed with this in mind.
Making the boss easier would do nothing to increase camping. He simply drops nothing worth camping for! The Ring of Nucleus (the item that seems to be in highest demand) drops off a totally different boss. (The easiest one.) The final boss drops the Juggler's Treat and Belt of Justice, both of which are marginally to non-useful to a high-level player.
-Jayde
BTW, confirmed the end boss drops the ncu rings sometimes.
LOLOriginally posted by DrVixen
In a lot of ways, the subway dungeon can be viewed as a tidy microcosm of Anarchy Online in toto. Like the subway, you get all the eye candy and fun at first, and then, once you really get into it, you find the game really just revolves around ub3r ph4t l00tz, twinking, and camping...and all the associated unpleasantness that goes along with it.
So perhaps Abemouth is, in fact, an appropriate case study for n00bs after all.
Today I had the pleasure of getting a ton of slum runners trained on me by someone who somehow disappeared ( /quit ), while I was fighting and winning against the first boss in the subway mission (first time I've seen him...and I've been down there several time. I love that dingeon). I managed to run and use first aid and calm them all, only to get back to the body to see the same person standing there and i got the message somebody else is looting the body.......Trained and Ninjaed!
I don't see a problem with people leveling up their alts in this dungeon...the problem starts when people starts camping and training and KSing down there just for loots...
And I think the end boss is off scale from the rest of the dungeon...but then so is Tara
All the ducks are swimming in the water
Given the subway is level limited, I thought it was like a sandbox for newbies to play in. Yeah they're gonna have to deal with all the unpleasantness, but why not let them just have one dungeon where they can play in?
Simple solution is just remove all the loot that is useful to high level players. Then you're just left with griefers who are simply there to make people miserable, of which there arent as many as are there for profit.
Don't you agree?
Camping for bossloot?
Make it all nodrop. See how quickly twinkies give up when they realise they can't sell the stuff on
Personally I enjoyed the hell out of the new dungeon, never even saw the boss (doh) but moved on after lvl 24 after a great deal of enjoyment. That's what games are about, right?
I took him dwon with a team and it wasn't what u would call an uber team either, Enforcer, Adventurer x2, (Newbie) Doc, Fixer, and an Agent, and we all just sort of drifted together throughout the dungeon. Didn't go in with sole intent to kill boss, like so many seem to do. First time we got or butts whooped, then once we had gone thro dungeon a second time we nailed him, tho some of us had some close shaves. 3 hps left that sorta thing.
Well, I stumbled upon the final boss this evening for the first (and last time with this character as it hit 25 just before getting to him) and would have to agree that no untwinked people are going to have a chance against it.
It killed our 23 adventurer in 1 second...
Then our 24 Soldier in 1.5 seconds...
And then me in another 1.5 seconds...
Of course, I was totally untwinked (25 Atrox Meta with 33 attack pet, 20ish implants, and 26ish armor).
being double hit every second for 100+ damage...is a quick death for any non-twinked characters.
Anywise...2 million credits = twinking...
-Religion
newb or low level?
yeah the subway boss is tough. yeah you will have to be a twink to do it or be in a really good newb group. but hey whats wrong with twinking? i mean everyone has uber twinked an alt or at least money twinked one. admit it. and yeah its very enjoyable. its something that all the vets who have been around a long time can enjoy. twinking means using the best gear/nanos that is possible. this doesnt mean exploiting or anything like that. did funcom actually say this was a newb dungeon or just low level? seems to me if it was a newb dungeon, they would make it so only new accounts could enter, that would keep it newb. to me its just a low level dungeon. so it takes a good low level player, with the best gear/ nanos to beat. the level requirement is a good idea also, makes it a challenge to accomplish on a deadline. sure some newbs will go through and level to high to get back in, but thats the rules and you have to play by them. you can just stay at level 24 or never leave but what newb will do that? if anyone stays around long enough they will create an alt. this is your chance to right all the wrongs you did on your main. maybe then you will have learned enough about the game mechanics to beat the subway. no good loots in the subway? do people say this to discourage others from camping their spawn? first off the ncu ring sells for a couple mills. what newb person lvl 20-100 isnt begging for their yalm fund? a couple mills for an easy kill is heaven to a newb! sure a couple mills is nothing to all the uber rich. the juggler treat ring adds +10 to multi melee and ranged. wear 2 and its +20. tell a lvl 145 doc duel wielding guns that +20 multi ranged is crap i dare you. thats 4-5 levels. not that easy to do when you dont have all day to mission in BS and have been title capped for 15 levels. in case you all dont know there are no other items that buff multi ranged or melee that are non adv and are easily attainable. there are no buffs that buff it that are non adv. so this makes the ring very valuable to all who dual wield. i made my subway alt just to get 2. i dont have 20mil to buy 2 on the market so i have no other choice. i hit level 24 and yes im twinked. to everyone out there complaining that the boss is to hard for newbies, well he is. is the boss to hard for good low level players, no. will funcom side with the newbies,that may leave the game in a month, and make the boss easier? or will they leave it as it is giving their long time, paying customers, a nice challenging low level playground? as it is now its a good time for all :]
It's actually the Nucleus that is attracting the campers, not the jester one.
+20 NCU is useful to everyone. Some might want to argue that they have another ring on their right finger that does something better, but duh you stick the ncu ring on, buff up, then put back on your old and just be OE on your NCU as if a fixer gave you a ncu buff and it ran out. You can even refresh buffs while OE.
It's just a matter of time before the ring gets nerfed, I just hope FC doesnt **** it up like they always do and just overnerf it (rust pitted ring) so that its useless even to newbies.
Nodrop would be the easiest solution. Then you cut out all the farmers, and the worst you'd have to worry about are people's new characters that want to outfit themselves, or under level 24 friends with the rings, as well as any griefers who would just stand there, kill it, and delete the ring just to make others miserable.
Yet the ring drops fairly regularly (and much easier, I might add) off the first boss in the dungeon.Originally posted by Ratty
It's actually the Nucleus that is attracting the campers, not the jester one.
+20 NCU is useful to everyone. Some might want to argue that they have another ring on their right finger that does something better, but duh you stick the ncu ring on, buff up, then put back on your old and just be OE on your NCU as if a fixer gave you a ncu buff and it ran out. You can even refresh buffs while OE.
It's just a matter of time before the ring gets nerfed, I just hope FC doesnt **** it up like they always do and just overnerf it (rust pitted ring) so that its useless even to newbies.
Nodrop would be the easiest solution. Then you cut out all the farmers, and the worst you'd have to worry about are people's new characters that want to outfit themselves, or under level 24 friends with the rings, as well as any griefers who would just stand there, kill it, and delete the ring just to make others miserable.
So... My bottom line opinion? End boss stupidly hard for no reason. NERF Abmouth Supremus!
-Jayde
Or just one twink, My level 23 Trader Does Criticals up to 580 with her ql 50 Krutt and yes its self equipped, heh i dont have a decent set of armor on just my black leather and a shotty. Well i think that -120 from my ransacks and deprives might have something to do with it too.... ^.^Originally posted by AkodoReign
It is completely killable with 3-6 members in your team non twinked.
before some one posts, ill do it for your:
Exactly what XXXXX is/am talking about.
~I am the Virtual Virus
Yes, but is that the only thing that drops off of the Lab Director? No. Is everything else that drops off the the Lab Directory NODROP? No. Bad argument.Originally posted by Jayde
Ever tried getting a Custom Desert Reet off the Lab Director? It's NODROP, therefore should be easy to get, right? Wrong. =P
Same as above. People are not ONLY there for the Gaily. They are there for Dragon Flesh, the overrated Overcoat, these things are not NODROP. Gaily also isn't the only NODROP item that Tara drops.Oh yes, and the Gaily Painted Hood being NODROP has really helped Tara become less camped, despite the fact that that's the #1 item everyone wants?
Yeah, but everything that drops from Naleb that is special in anyway is NODROP.If someone camped Neleb, and he spawns every 30 mins... They could fill up their inventory in a matter of hours, NODROP or not. In fact, a camper could get more cloaks than they could ever possibly want what to do with in the normal 18 hour timespan. (Having 36 cloaks would be a bit much, don't ya think?) Not only that, they would be worth jack squat, due to how common they were. There are far more (better) normal items with much more uncommon drop rates.
Yeah, you have your opinion, I have mine. I see greedy people who would camp something just for quick and easy cash. The stuff may be marginally useful for high level characters true, but people love twinks. Equipment for Twinks is a big business in this game.Even boss loot would be more rare, in that case--and most of it doesn't even go for 500K. Camping = Spawn Time (and drop rarity) vs. Value (or usefulness of item) Neleb would be just as camped as any of the other mobs if he was on an 18 hour timer.
At any rate... let's go over what this boss drops...
1) A ring that adds 10 MM/MR
2) A 3-slot belt usable by only clanners
Also consider:
a) There are three versions of the dungeon running at any time (Clan, Omni, Neut)
b) Boss is on ~1 hour timer
Somehow, the argument that making him easier would cause him to be camped constantly by high-levels just doesn't make a lot of sense.
Yay for common drops! As soon as the market is flooded with the things twinkage for the subway will slack off.The funny thing is...all the drops in there are very regular, very common, and extremely non-useful to a high-level. You know how many Morphing Memory's you can farm in an hour? About the only rare drop down there is the NCU ring, and it is limited to around 20 NCU, IIRC... It also drops off the first (and easiest) boss.
Once the "oooohhahhhh" factor has worn off, there will be no reason to camp this dungeon at all. It was designed with this in mind.
Making the boss easier would do nothing to increase camping. He simply drops nothing worth camping for! The Ring of Nucleus (the item that seems to be in highest demand) drops off a totally different boss. (The easiest one.) The final boss drops the Juggler's Treat and Belt of Justice, both of which are marginally to non-useful to a high-level player.
-Jayde
I see another reason for subway twinkage though. There is one thing that makes the subway different from everything else in the game. The level req for entering. Once someone hits 25 in the subway there is no turning back if they want to stay in. Its something similar to Hardcore characters in Diablo style games. Ultimately levelling in the subway is going to reach a cap.... the moment Supremus turns grey its over. You can't level anymore. Most likely for your last two levels Supremus will be the only thing at all giving you XP in the Subway. Too bad there is no place else in game where this taste of Hardcore action is going on.
True... you can reach lvl 36 on the regular mobs, the highest of the regular mobs, the Infectors in the last room, and some the humanoids in Vergils room and the big room before that, and the Bloodcreeper thats in the Slum Runner cave is level 25. When you hit 36 only Vergil (lvl 27 I think) and Abmouth Supremus (lvl 30) are the only ones giving XP. Those to being the only ones giving XP means you will level very slowly.. TOO slowly. But you will be able to reach the lvl of 42-45 (the difference between your level and the level of mobs you get xp from is a %age, so you cant take 36(lvl from regular mob)-25=11 and then do 11+30(Abmouths lvl) = 41... So I'd guess its 43 - 45..Originally posted by Minivasn
I see another reason for subway twinkage though. There is one thing that makes the subway different from everything else in the game. The level req for entering. Once someone hits 25 in the subway there is no turning back if they want to stay in. Its something similar to Hardcore characters in Diablo style games. Ultimately levelling in the subway is going to reach a cap.... the moment Supremus turns grey its over. You can't level anymore. Most likely for your last two levels Supremus will be the only thing at all giving you XP in the Subway. Too bad there is no place else in game where this taste of Hardcore action is going on.
But on the discussion on toning down Abmouth. I cant really see ANY point in doing this.. he really should a challange. A HARD one.. If you are concered about what he drops then dont be. Vergil drops everything that Abmouth drops. I know, I've killed Vergil my fair share of times. And he's really not THAT hard. First time I saw him die was to a group of 4 ppl with me helping abit. I was the highest lvl of 25, the others were 13, 18, 20 and 23 I think.. 1 Doc, Enf, NT and a Agent.. The NT was the one that you could say was twinked (I was too, but I was to afraid to attack Abmouth as my death would mean no more Subway for me, so I only attacked the adds), he had a MC Gift running so he could do pretty good 400dmg nukes. But they didnt have any problem killing him.. I was kinda surprised cause I had read this threads crys for a (unecessary might I add) nerf......
The reason I know that 36 is the exact lvl is 36 on regular mobs is that I did hit that lvl.. During that time I had soloed Vergil a LOT of times, the dungeons seems to have lost is appeal to a lot of you guys already, cause I havent seen too many of you there today.. I know I was in GS2, but the first day I was there even GS2 was full in Old Athens.
Well anyways 2k xp before I hit 36 Vergil FINALLY decided to drop a belt of justice.. that was the only reason I was still inside the dungeon, killing him about 15 times... (takes time when his spawn is 20m-2hours long) well, since I were only lacking 2k xp I decided to kill a few infectors and then try to solo Abmouth. 6 infectors later I hit 36 and buff up... My alt is a fixer, (no GA, so he isnt THAT twinked, but if anyone is selling!!! gimme a tell), I put on my runbuffs and my ADV run buff,.. (I got the "Boots of Infinite Speed" of Strike Leader, and they buff me with Terrain Knowledge). My Burst and MG/SMG expertice, Suppresor buff and bot of my HoTs and refresh my nano so I can rerun the short term HoT when its out... Then I attack Abmouth...
At first I tried to just tank him, and soon discovered that he spawns 2 infectors and they compiend hit a bit too hard for me to just tank them (Should add that my evaeds are maxed so the infectors have problems hitting me).... so I start running, and only stopp to fire off my Burst whenever it recharged.. I ran in circles around that little surgery room in Abmouths room, and was hit occasionally by 2x111 dmg, he seems to always dualhit.
But in the end he died! He droped a NCU ring and some implants and other useless stuff..
Now I know that not everybody would wanna level the insanly slow lvls from 24-36 (all greens) but I really wanted that belt before I left... and it resulted in me getting to 36..And I know that my alt is about as twinked as he could get at level 24... But he is NOT impossbile for someone who arent twinked to the max if they just give it a few tries with their buddies... 4 lvl 13-23 ppl took him out, some of them being a bit twinked.. but a good team of somewhat experienced players should be able to take him out.. with out needing to cash out for ubertwinkage...
http://web.sysrq.no/maniac/ao/pics/abmouth.jpg
btw, excuse my bad tying.. its late... 10+ hours camping Vergil for that belt took its toll...
I dont see the problem.
All the bosses have or seem to have the same percentage chance to drop the same loot. So your not missing anything on Absouth except a great challenge.
The reallycool thing is the last boss looks damn cool has way wicked attacks and for a good team who take him down newb or twinks its a very satisfying exp.
We (mate and I ) madea trader each leveled up to 24. TWINKED TO EXTREME. It was actually fun working out the best combo implants ncu armor, took us 2 days to get it right...the whole shebang to ensure a great little level 24 trader. We then got some uber buffs....GSF and a HOt sprinted down there and whopped his butt. For me that was great. all the planning and twinking.....we were stoked. Yes he is hard for newbs but I consider what I am doing at high level now.....this is really a godsend monster to give you a small taste of what its like fighting mobs like "The Pest"(which summons at my last battle 14 pets and does an AOE nuke for 2k) at level 200. And we kill the pest reguraly....this teaches you how to fight those mobs. This guy is a mini unqiue mob.....players that dont get to see the pest or the one etc......I think this is a sweet mob to actually feel a tight close battle.You knock over Absomouth at your level non twinked with some thinking and planning you should be damn proud.
leave it as is.
Phinger
Level 220 Nanotech
Highangel - Level 212 Crat
and a 205 MP (Used to buff Phinger ....now buffs everyone else)
You hit Stefan Messamore with nanobots for 14295 points of radiation damage.
My experience has not shown this to be true. Abmouth is the only mob that drops Juggler's Treat and the Belt of Justice with any regularity. He also almost ALWAYS drops the NCU ring if he doesn't drop one of these, unlike Virgil and Eumenides who are quite often lootless.Originally posted by Fingers
I dont see the problem.
All the bosses have or seem to have the same percentage chance to drop the same loot. So your not missing anything on Absouth except a great challenge.
Have you tested this on the live server?
Supremus is definitely not too hard for tweaks, just witnessed my friend solo him at lvl 24. He is MA though and pretty well built, and ofcourse the buffs dont hurt
But what goes to players starting the game they definitely might have some troubles with the supremus. not too much though i think with well built team.
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