My thoughts on Tara RK2

[Erase]

Hi all I was able to attend part of a meeting today and I dont know the outcome. But what I understanding is a few guilds want damage teams for certain times then to use the clannet point system the rest.... AGAIN Idont know the outcome or what was discussed of that.... I am NOT trying to say how this should be done I just want to voice my opinion about the whole thing

Frist thing while yes one group can solo T one group cannot hold T... Omni has been recently putting up a good fight and it has been really enjoyable (thanks). But if clan were to break away from from a joint effort then we will lose Tara. Damage teams mean that nothing is organize there is no protection from omni cause everyone will have the T room filled with people to either heal/buff or deal the damage. Omni will take tara if that is the case..... it has been proven.... Tara is a joint effort and needs to be thought of as a clan event and not a damage team.. Now part of what I heard was that if we could get a thrid open that would go to damage team... while I still hold the above ideas this might be the only way to keep people of both views (clannet vs damage team) happy.... I know that when I go to T I will heal whoever has argo that is my job as a Doc and i hope to continue to do so. I DO NOT LIKE THE IDEA OF A DAMAGE TEAM....

I would love for myself to have earned a gaily painted hood but if it drops and another clanner gets I will be jsut as happy to see it on there hand as much as I would on mine... Why? since I have started this game I have made many ingame friends, an in game family if you will these people have helped me through alot and I in turn do the same if my help is needed so when I clanner gets the good stuff and it is not me WHOOT! good for them... jsut one less perosn I have to roll against I loved the atmosphere of the clanners before T. T unfornatl brings out the worst in some people..... If T ever goes to damage teams I will not be part of it i dont want to fight my fellow clansmen for some "loot" The point system is a fair way to distribute the loot... you go more you have more of a chance... and why should you not, if you put up the effort to be at all the T raids I think you should have more of a chance to get loot.

Again my opinion not meant to change rules or anyones mind about how they feel about damage teams. I am not looking for flame but if anyone can explain the idea of damage teams then also explain how to keep omni out while being split up and please tell me, enlighten me so I can see you side.

POX

[________________Sbje]

Pox making a good post? wtf :P

[Thelcia]

Pox, I do agree that Tara by a group effort is a very good thing. And I do agree that having Tarasque decided soley by damage teams is not a good thing.

However, having no alternative to a system that you have very little power to change is also unacceptable.

The outcome of the meeting was that the 3rd dungeon be opened and free for damage teams. If this brings omni, then the challenge only goes up. But it only goes up for Tara3, and does not affect the other dungeons.

The intention was never to get rid of Clannet, only to provide an alternative to it. No one will always agree and there needs to be a place for those that do not.

[Erase]

Thank you for posting that Thelc that is the info I was lookin gfor..... if that is the case like I said before then I am hesitantly for it I wanna see something that does make both sides of the arangement happy... If this goes into play I only hope that any feelings that may come of damage teams dont roll over into the other taras.... Reason I say that is because not only do damage teams split the clans it leaves a space for ninja looting.... IE damage team one gets loot rights no drops is in loot... how many people do you think are going to be clicking away to get a chance to loot it everyone there i am sure.. Now Damage team 1 is mad... will that anger roll over into gs1 and 2? what is going to stop people from other Damage teams from trying to get loot right when another is getting a no drop? Again please no flaming I do wanna get a grasp of the idea here and the measure put in place.

[Thelcia]

Pox,

Your point on ninja looting and other nasty actions that people might feel they can take if "damage team" = "do anything you want to destroy the other side" is a very good one and one that we worry about.

We pride outrselves on being honest. The alliance of ODM is a close nit one of very good friends. During the week of damage teams at Tara before the point system was implemented in Clannet, we never tried to ninja and specifically told all of our members that we would fight fair -- unless someone else did something nasty to us.

We don't want ninja looting, associating with omni, keeping others from entering dungeons, and other morally reprehensable actions. We want a fair fight. We want a fun fight. We want the experience of banding together as friends and family and conquering all But then, isn't this what it is all about in the end?

We asked for Clannet's support in keeping Tara3 clean. I can only hope that it works out that way.

[______________Rhalla]

We want the experience of banding together as friends and family and conquering all But then, isn't this what it is all about in the end- Thelcia


not for most cia, thats the problem. too many are basing their decisions on greed and a better chance for loot. why should they wanna earn it? its being handed to them now, they wont wanna change that.


on another note, if omni would just show up, this would be more fun and we would all actually have to earn it, even with a clannet system. we can only hope the omni stop being lil Sallys :P

[Erase]

well I did not partake in the 3rd tara today.... how did it go?

[_________Trader Doug]

Lil sallys? : (. We did win it today though ^^

[Thelcia]

Well sadly, people did not want to uphold their end of the agreement and wanted today's tara3 to be run by Clannet. There was a lot of yelling and flaming before the majority of ODM left tara3. Those that remained were there for the PvP action that followed.

Once tara3 was decided on as being a damage team dungeon, it should have stayed that way. If agreements like this are not followed through on, then it jeopardizes the stability of Clannet as a whole and the staus of the keeping Tara1 and Tara2 run by Clannet.

After all of this mess, Jdude went back to the stance that he held at the leader meeting this weekend that Tara3 should be damage team only. This information is all summarized at www.aoguildleaders.org. I can only hope for the sake of Clannet that they uphold their descisions.

And i would also like to thank all of the clan that filled up Tara2 so we could succeed in opening Tara3. *lowers her voice* Oh, and um, yeah, i guess all those omni in Tara1 sort of helped too....

[Erase]

But the problem is you have to go with the masses or it will go that way everytime 10% want Damage teams 90% want clannet.... I can honestly tell you who will win... Please dont think I am upset about what you are trying, but when these people that you are trying to exclude by doing a damage team waited around for an hour or more the help open the third dungeon, then you try to exclude them from loot........ what do you think would happen. you have 120+ people helping you open a 3rd and then want to keep loot to 6 people? Makes no sense to me.

[Nanochamp1]

http://www.rpgforum.cc/tara.jpg

locking omni out until you get enough people to win tara... nice way to win, really.

[__________Little Rot]

Good post Pox! But I've been to T about a million gagillion bazillion times, too bad you can't retrofit your points. I still believe that no one group or clan owns T and whomever does the most damage wins. That's the philosophy I had and will continue to have. I surely will not piss on anyone cheerios by ninja looting and I do not speak for my guild. But, if I'm in a team and we win looting rights I'm voting we take the loot.


Somedays you kill the dragon and some days the dragon kills you.

[Thelcia]

That is impressive Q to say the least. However, whomever told Iobe that that was possible was seriously misinformed.

No one can keep people out of T1 as long as there is somoene in there. T1 is the primary playfield then. No matter how many people you get into T2, it will not affect T1.

This is of course not true the other way around. It is easy to keep people out of 2 as long as there is soemone in 1. This is an extremely filthy maneuver tho and reeks of an exploit. Anyone put in this position where people are intentionally staying in a lower level dungeon to keep people out of the higher level dungeons should immediately petition as a disruption. Becuase that is what this is.

If you had trouble getting back into T1, it was only becuase you had filled up T1 yourselves

[Thelcia]

On the subject of having the 1st tara3 be determined by Clannet instead of by damage teams, I have to point out the following:

1. There were at least 60 omni if not more controlling T1. This is what allowed us to open T3 in the 1st place, Clan was not going to do it alone. Should we have shared with them as well?

2. The first Tara3 WAS determined by Clannet. All of those that wanted to uphold their end of the agreement left or assisted in killing omni.

3. An agreement is an agreement, if we cannot expect Clannet to stand by what they say, what else can we expect from them?

Edit to add:

4. There were only a few people that actually were upset about this. When Jdude asked if anyone wanted to revoke the agreement later in Clannet chat, no one spoke up. So we are not talking about the majority wanting something, we are talking about a vocal minority that wanted to go against what the DA and those administering Clannet agreed to.

[Shizadah]

Well Thelcia, you must be a lawyer in real life, because you seem to be a stickler for warping words to your own intent rather than following the "spirit" of the agreement.

The MAJORITY of non-ODM members who voted on the damage team agreement were voting for the following:

First TWO Taras are for clannet.
Third Tara is for damage teams.

If gs3 is the first dungeon opened, then it is Tara1. If gs1 is opened second, then it is Tara2. If gs2 is opened last, then it is Tara3 and would therefore be open to damage teams.

**** The playfield is NOT what determines whether it is open for damage teams. The 3rd playfield that clanners open, and control is the one open for damage teams. ****

The previous statements highlighted by asterisks is what I voted on. That was the intent of what I agreed to. If you asked the MAJORITY of non-ODM members what they thought they were voting on, they would tell you the same. So please keep your twisted interpretation to yourself or have another vote now that you have twisted the interpretation of the agreement.

[Thelcia]

"Well Thelcia, you must be a lawyer in real life, because you seem to be a stickler for warping words to your own intent rather than following the "spirit" of the agreement. "

Actually, I am a genetics graduate student. I prefer options that are Not open to interpretation and have basis in fact. The only way to be absolutely clear cut about what we are talking about is pressing shift-F9. Any other method reeks of daily descisions and misinterpretation.

Your idea slants this issue towards Clannet always getting their 2 per day, but doesn't even consider every third "clan-won" dungeon as damage team. I am more inclined to believe that you just want to work this to your advantage than actually present any real discussion.

"The MAJORITY of non-ODM members who voted on the damage team agreement were voting for the following:

First TWO Taras are for clannet.
Third Tara is for damage teams. "

I just do not believe this. Jdude certainly does not believe this from my discussions with him. Ninfa was supporting the agreement from the get go. This may be Your belief, but do not present it as anyone else's without the data to back it up. You were the only one arguing this at the shouting match on opening day. Anyone that may have fell for your deluded logic certainly did not think about the implications for such an argument.

[Nanochamp1]

"No one can keep people out of T1 as long as there is somoene in there. T1 is the primary playfield then. No matter how many people you get into T2, it will not affect T1. "

Thelcia, you must not have been there yesterday. The only dungeon anyone could get into was, GS2. Somehow two omni's got into GS1, but that was it. So while we were trying to close GS2, a few clanners come up into GS2. One of them asked for 80million creds to leave. Then Skystryke comes up to GS2, I believe he told Tza that "Clan will leave when we are ready", I take it ready means "When we have enough people to crush omni".


"If you had trouble getting back into T1, it was only becuase you had filled up T1 yourselves"

Nope, two people in GS1 for, 4-5hours I believe until a ARK let everyone in, which was wrong because clan used GS2 as a way to keep us from getting Tara while they got stronger.

[Shizadah]

Yes, my interpretation slants it towards Clannet getting the first two Taras per day, because that is the FAIREST for all. What ODM wants to do stinks of greed. Even though you claim your alliance isn't doing this for greed, the fact is you want to win the loot for your alliance so there are greater odds for your members to get loot. Call it whatever you want...but that is greed. The Clannet system may not be the best, but it is MUCH fairer than damage teams, and as POX stated earlier, damage teams leads to inner conflict between clans and less cooperation. The end result is what you see happening now...omni gaining more confidence and showing up in greater numbers and starting to challenge us for control of Tara. Well, if that's what your alliance wanted, then you got it.

As for what Jdude and Ninfa said, hold a vote on the interpretations of the agreement and see what happens. You will find that you are wrong. Why? Because ANY fair-minded person who understands what you want to do will see that your proposal and interpretation of the agreement stinks of greed!!! Shame on all of you in ODM for being so greedy...it disgusts me.

[Thelcia]

To make myself clear,

1. Making a proportion of raids determined by damage teams was to give those that did not agree with how Clannet was run an option. Clannet as it stood was a monopoly. Those that did not agree with it were deemed traitors to the clan. This provided a way out for all those that felt that they had no choice but to go along with a system that they 1. did not agree with and 2. had no power to change.

2. There is no reason to assume that ODM will win all damage team raids. Of the 1st 2, we gave one up to Clannet and fairly lost the other. I believe that all those involved in the 2nd raid enjoyed themselves and felt that this was a welcome change from Clannet only raids.

3. Unless Clannet evolves into a system that is actually fair, truley represents the wishes of all those involved, and makes every concievable effort to remove any chance of corruption, having a specified proportion of damage team raids is the only way to keep those that believe it is unfair from disrupting those raids specified as Clannet run raids.

Because in the end, Clannet is not defualt and never has been. Damage teams is. If you don't offer the default solution, it will be forced on you.

Doing what we did provided a way for Clannet to continue to run without undue interruption and a way out for those that wanted it.

[Thelcia]

Q,

I guess I misunderstood the situation then, and was wrong in how I believed the playfields to work.

Needless to say, I think that you know my viewpoint on this subject. I however, do not speak for the clans and am disspointed that some acted this way.

I still think this is exploitive, even if it is not offically classifed as such. Although we may be omni vs. clan and in competition here, I still believe in fair fights.