No Longer Envisioned

[_________CaptFallout]

God, it's funny to see level 50 people say "tradeskills are okay for experience."

Yeah... um. What is it, 0.01% of a level per item/lockpick/weapon creation?

Haha, I'd love to see someone get a level past level 100 with those major experience bonuses.

Funcom has said that xp from tradeskills are a BONUS and not a way to level up (unless you like 1 level each month)

Of course, you people who are level 30 or so can cheer it on because you assume that since you can get 100xp at level 20 you'll get 10k at level 100.

Experience gained from tradeskills is so insignificant it should be considered broken and useless.

Funcom dumped a good idea because they knew it would take work. Would itbe hard? Nope, they did a variant with escort missions at launch.

"No risk" is not the case, people gave (many) good ideas on how to do a system like this and now Funcom will give us a patch that I doubt will be any better than a poorly deigned Quake level and some bugged missions.

Alvin's mission rocks! WOOHOO! I can camp him for a few hours then FC says "Um, you can't finish this yet. This is a good thing though, um... because we say it is. Yeah! It's more immersive... that sounds good!"

[_______________Neryn]

I just want to say good job!

It takes courage to start telling the player-base that things you have promised will not ever see the light of day, but to me it also shows you are finally getting serious about getting this game working right and maybe one day it will live up to its potential.

I too felt that most of the items on the list were fairly insignificant, and encourage you to add to it if needed, as I also feel you may be holding some items back. Sort of the "testing of the waters" type of thing.

The sooner we all (player-base included) get our heads out of the clouds as to what would be nice if this were the perfect game, and get to work on getting solid feasible content and features in, and working, the sooner AO will be a success.

As a side note, my six-month subscription was coming up for renewal shortly and I was seriously considering letting it expire. Keep up this kind of open dialog and honesty about improving the game, and I for one will give you another 6 months to fine-tune your wonderful product.

Keep up the good work, and ignore those guys in the marketing department, eventually lies only come back to haunt you, but honesty can only help in the long run.

Neryn

[______________Foster]

There are problems that lots of peoepl have posted about. Some very critical like the lock-ups durign travelling and such.
We get no responces, nor a post of news or any type mentioning that they are working on it.
Instead we see Range issues and now this post on "past promises".
You ca promises us anything and notdo it for years as long as you keep the game running smooth.

I wonder now if FC reads every post or only reads the first in responce to their news as disregards the rest..




__________________________________________________ ___

Enforcers - GIVE US EDGED NANOS!!

[___________Mainspace]

Originally posted by WGMelchior
Risk isn't the same as violence.

People working at a nuclear plant is under constant risk. It doesn't mean they are killers.


And risk isn't necesarily a factor in everything. Leveling through non-combat means should take more time. But as it is now, it takes so redicolously long to do it, and it's not financially possible.

Why should it take more time? What makes combat so much more enlightening?

[Miayah]

I love the game, but what else is there? A few of my fellow players had a long discussion a few nights ago wondering- after all the killing then leveling, killing then leveling, killing then leveling what's next? I mean how far can we level and do I really feel like leveling that far? LOL!!! Yes I have other characters with different professions, yes I've fought in the arena and yes I've turned into the EBay of Omni Trade. But reality set in when, during the discussion, we all asked the same question "WHERE ARE WE HEADING?" I've been playing since June (through all the horrific bugs and patches), but its beginning to get a tad bit boring at times. Is this just a race to see if you can become the highest level character in the game? Is this just an advanced form of a Chat program, where people can meet other people from around the world? Or is this a game that's going to add more than just new items and new nano programs? I really hate being negative - but sometimes the deep frustrations of a die hard RPG gamer rises to the surface. Please add more than just new items and programs----soon!!!

For those that are reading this- fire away with the negative replies to my message-- but I know at one point, this issue has come across in your mind at least once. Please do reply negatively or positively to my message, with ideas on what could be done to make this game better. Perhaps something different about the missions? And so on... Hopefully Funcom will be listening.

Thanks
Bigworm- I player who loves AO but wants to see more

Oh, I am still playing, but how long can I last...

[Noe]

Well, im glad to see the company owning up to some admissions, but Ill agree w/ the rest that all but one of those were completely NON-issues....although it would have been nice to reinstall SuSeLinux and run AO on a stable platform.

But I am bummed that they gave up on the idea of mission that had no fighting involved.

It is not that tough to do...read my very detailed explanation of how it could be done in this thread...

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...0&pagenumber=2

my 2 cents.

Sounds more like it was a "philosophy" decision than anything that had to do w/ it being "difficult" to figure out how to implement.

[__________Mindswayer]

You should add the following two items to that list:

1. Side advantages (other than those that are RPG story related)

2. Changing Professions (I'll write up why in the Game Mechanics forum)

[MrBunny]

Indulge my rambling a bit please..

#1
While it is nice to hear Funcom saying they are sorry they can't do something even though they promised it...I would like to know how many of you even knew about the "wars in the slum zone" concept, the "penal colony" concept, "subway" concept, and the "non-combat" mission...
I didn't hear about that in the envisioned section of anarchy online. This is the first time I've heard about it.

#2
Well of course, Funcom, you dumb sh!t you cant do all those ideas and have to drop them from the "envisioned". Because you just axed 30 jobs from your company that were doing miscellenous improvements to AO. Whether they were coding jobs or graphics jobs, or server jobs or what not, the fact is you just fired 30 people that were improving AO for the benefit of the players. Now you are short 30 more people who could have been improving the game and doing those things in envisioned you just had to remove!

#3
Now let's look at this in a time line. Sorry, I don't have an exact time-line but you can probably find it in here (http://www.ao-basher.com/mem_genbyid.php?id=625) Its probably still there.

First Funcom axes 30 people from their company.
Second, the struggle with the game and come to a conclusion that they can't come up with everything promised because.. they just axed 30 people from H.R!
Third, they decide to make themselves look good, by saying sorry guys we admit it. We are only human. Please forgive us.
Fourth, people actually forgive them! Which I must say is the only shred of human compassion going on here. Funcom trying to fish for compliments, is not!

Now, it could very well be, that Funcom really is sincerely sorry. In which case then yes Funcom is trying to be frank with us and are trying to be mature. That's a good sign. BUT! even if that were the case, It just shows that Funcom has it's head in some paper bag, because c'mon. You axe 30 jobs, then say you can't come up with the stuff you promised ? Frankly I am kinda sorry the penal colony didn't come into play. As that would have been nice. Yes I am the one going around killing Omni Npc's and I am an employee of Omni. =p

What I am trying to say, is that "Of course you cant come up with what you promised! You just fired 30 people! Funcom get a better administration or a better overall game designer! And for goodness sakes, Get a Clue!"

I am sure some of you players saw this coming from Funcom.

[fallentci]

Originally posted by WGMelchior
Risk isn't the same as violence.

People working at a nuclear plant is under constant risk. It doesn't mean they are killers.


And risk isn't necesarily a factor in everything. Leveling through non-combat means should take more time. But as it is now, it takes so redicolously long to do it, and it's not financially possible.

I cannot overstate how strongly I agree with this. I LOVE my combat character who smacks the snot out of anything she encounters ... and sometimes (oftimes) gets the snot smacked out or her. But I also LOVE my non-combat doc who used to be able to peacefully progress by caring so gently yet attentively to her patients. Now she makes plasma out of monster guts.

When I need an evening of fun that does not involve smacking the snot out of things I no longer have an option except that of a graphical chat room. Okay, no peaceful yet problematic missions ... how about just giving us a viable healing profession again? Or making trade professions practical?

[__________WGMelchior]

Longer time as in:

During the course of one level, someone out hunting might die about 3 times. Still, they get the exp needed to level, at last. This might take 2 hours, for example.

An engineer gets a rather large order of guns, and sits down to make those. All in all, with recource gathering, manual reading, preparing, assembling, final checks and delivery that also takes 2 hours.

Both get from level 34 to 35.


BUT

The actual XP the hunter got was much more than the XP needed for one level, but he/she lost some of it.

The engineer only got the exact XP for the level, since he/she never lots any XP.


Since you don't actually lose anything when dying, I say the 'risk' factor is close to 0. Sure, you lose time, but so would the engineer if he/she failed to find that last part.

[_________Anisotropic]

AAh, i was hoping you would get a working prision system.. intergrated with a theiving system. i can imagine guilds of clanners coming to omni and robbing people. or vice versa. with the risk of getting arrested,

prision system would have been cool, but make it so that the player can . possibly.. escape!, or have visitors, who can help em escape(or not) thus putting them on the wanted list as well. or maybe get forced to do community service, depending on the serveraity of the crime..
it's really jsut a matter of how many people are willing to roleplay. vs how many are going to whine.

how bout.. set up a system where a person can participate in the "prision roleplaying" aspect of it. and people that participate in it , will be given a reward item., , and people that don't wish to participate won't be

of course those that participate will be subject to arrestablity, if they do something naughty.

maybe do something similar to stealing,. make it so that those that wish to be able to be stolen from. OR steal things from other players. VOLUNTEER to participate. and give some reward for participating. those that dont' . wont' have that "steal ==1 " flag set or whatever.

[__________ChrisF0001]

I'd like to add my support to the idea that non-combat missions are clearly possible.

Ultimately, as far as I can see, risk versus reward is a perfectly good theory on paper, but I have two points to make about it. Firstly, the idea of 'greater risk yields greater reward' doesn't necessarily mean that no risk yields no reward. Secondly, and more significantly, there doesn't seem to be to be any risk in AO anyway.

Consider a combat-orientated character. Yellow mobs are supposed to be challenging but defeatable, green mobs are supposed to be easier, grey mobs don't provide experience. So, all they need to do to advance their character is to save, pick a mission with the difficulty slider set all the way to 'Easy', and go in. Theroetically, everything they meet should be green or grey. Mobs appear to sit in their own rooms until 'activated', so apart from the larger entrance chamber each one can be tackled separately, and even the entrance mobs can usually be zoned away from if required. Grey mobs should be no trouble, and green mobs shouldn't pose much of a threat when faced one at a time: cautious use of first aid and treatment kits should do the job, and if they start to run low, it's always possible to leave the mission and come back. Low level characters can be expected to have access to missions in fairly safe areas, and high level characters are likely to have Yalmahas, so they can be considered safe after leaving the mission area.

A careful player should be able to finish a mission like this with little to no risk at all. They'll be finding chests, which will contain loot, and every monster they kill will have a small number of credits, so they're guaranteed some return. Sure, they might die, but what do they lose then? All the experience they gained during the mission, in theory, but if things were starting to look dangerous they should have left the area and saved again. Getting from a mission area to an insurance terminal might sometimes be a problem, but careful selection of missions can minimise that. Even if they haven't saved, they've still got all the loot they picked up, and that can be a noticable gain. If they actually finished the mission and got a token, that's permanent too.

After all, death isn't permanent, it's just annoying. The only real disadvantage of trying missions that are very difficult is that you may find it impossible to complete them, and you have to pay for all the healing kits and rounds fired before you realise that and give up.

Hence, risk versus reward doesn't seem to work. What does seem to be the case, at least from my point of view, is that taking a mission represents an investment of time and effort. Missions that take longer to complete should generate more profit, and so they do. This is the principle on which non-combat missions can be based.

So, just set up, say, tradeskill missions like That Other Game does. XYZNPC wants a Heavy Grinner of at least Q quality... Okay, so find the parts, build one, and right-click it on the mission terminal like a 'Retrieve Object' mission. You get a lot of cash, since you'll have had to invest in the parts, and some experience too, since the actual assembly of the thing won't have given you very much. Simple, yes, but it could take ages to find the components by scouring all the shops you can find. Give it a time limit of an hour or two, and you might have to consider whether you want to search a little longer for a quality level Q part, or take the short-cut of buying that Q+10 level part that the store has right now... It will reduce your profit, maybe even lose you money if you have to do that a lot, but you'd still get the experience. Is it worth it? That's an interesting element of thought and planning that you just don't need in combat missions...

[____________Aardvark]

Most of the now non-envisioned stuff really doesn't bother me. Didin't know most of it was coming down in the first place. The only thing that really hit me was the Linux port. AO is about the only reason I boot into the win2k side of my box, and was wistfully hoping for a Linux port. If FunCom changes their mind and needs someone to beta it, I'll be the first in line.


As a Fixer, I have always hoped that the class would be able to eventailly evolve into having the option of being a smugger type. The only down side is there isn't anything to smuggle. I think Crin has a great idea here. I'm not too keen on the no flying, gridding, wumpa part of it, but I really like the concept. Trying to deliver an item while running across a zone with a bunch of really annoyed MOBs sounds like fun. Kinda like the rush from blitzing a high level mission, where you know that if you screw up once, you're going to be visiting the reclaim terminal. Definately gives me a good reason to go out and check out the great scenery instead of the usual camps and mission playfields.

Sal

Originally posted by Crin
Mission without fighting.

Well I have suggested it before, but a courier mission doesn’t seem to hard to code. You have to deliver an item to another location, either directly or though a series of check points. The item is highly unstable and will be destroyed if it is flown, gridded, or taken through a wampa. As a security measure the item is DNA locked to the carrier so that if it passes to another player it is also destroyed. If you really want to make it more difficult, have the item impose a limit on the players max speed too. That way even Fixers would have to worry, cause they simple could not outrun every thing. (That seems a bit harsh though because you are taking away the one real advantage a Fixer has).

This is a nice little mission that rewards you for roaming around the beautiful world of Rubi-Ka. The risk is of course all the nasty mobs you will have to AVOID along the way. A good knowledge of the world helps. For example if you know a really tough mob likes to hang out in your path, a detour might be advisable.

One radioactive isotope needs delivery for Rome to Omni-1. Any takers?

[_____________Kershoc]

Originally posted by Tatterjack
I have to say I'm disappointed by the decision not to port to Linux. The only reason I boot into Windows is to play AO. You say that there aren't enough users to justify a port, but I for one was never asked whether I would play the game on Linux, and I can't help but wonder how you determined how many Linux users would play the game. Given that one of the main arguments that people have against using Linux is that there are very few decent games for the platform, surely you're helping this to become a self-fulfilling prophecy?

I have to agree with Tatterjack and Aardvark on this.

I myself do not look at the boards much. I came here after I saw the news post on the website that mentioned a Linux port was dropped off the list.

I would have loved to have seen a questionaire when logging into the game asking me if I would be interested in a Linux port. Both myself and my girlfriend run linux as our primary platform. We only keep windows around so we can play AO.

Try polling us through the game client and see how many Linux user play.

[_________MikeWeather]

"Try polling us through the game client and see how many Linux user play."

Probably not nearly as many as Mac users.

[Mick]

Man, I was to looking forward to a Linux port

[Laeni]

Originally posted by MrBunny
Indulge my rambling a bit please..

#1
While it is nice to hear Funcom saying they are sorry they can't do something even though they promised it...I would like to know how many of you even knew about the "wars in the slum zone" concept, the "penal colony" concept, "subway" concept, and the "non-combat" mission...
I didn't hear about that in the envisioned section of anarchy online. This is the first time I've heard about it.

#2
Well of course, Funcom, you dumb sh!t you cant do all those ideas and have to drop them from the "envisioned". Because you just axed 30 jobs from your company that were doing miscellenous improvements to AO. Whether they were coding jobs or graphics jobs, or server jobs or what not, the fact is you just fired 30 people that were improving AO for the benefit of the players. Now you are short 30 more people who could have been improving the game and doing those things in envisioned you just had to remove!

#3
Now let's look at this in a time line. Sorry, I don't have an exact time-line but you can probably find it in here (http://www.ao-basher.com/mem_genbyid.php?id=625) Its probably still there.

First Funcom axes 30 people from their company.
Second, the struggle with the game and come to a conclusion that they can't come up with everything promised because.. they just axed 30 people from H.R!
Third, they decide to make themselves look good, by saying sorry guys we admit it. We are only human. Please forgive us.
Fourth, people actually forgive them! Which I must say is the only shred of human compassion going on here. Funcom trying to fish for compliments, is not!

Now, it could very well be, that Funcom really is sincerely sorry. In which case then yes Funcom is trying to be frank with us and are trying to be mature. That's a good sign. BUT! even if that were the case, It just shows that Funcom has it's head in some paper bag, because c'mon. You axe 30 jobs, then say you can't come up with the stuff you promised ? Frankly I am kinda sorry the penal colony didn't come into play. As that would have been nice. Yes I am the one going around killing Omni Npc's and I am an employee of Omni. =p

What I am trying to say, is that "Of course you cant come up with what you promised! You just fired 30 people! Funcom get a better administration or a better overall game designer! And for goodness sakes, Get a Clue!"

I am sure some of you players saw this coming from Funcom.

Just for the record, the 30 people that were layed off from Funcom did not work on AO. And Funcom put their other online game that they were developing (Midgard) on hiatus and moved all those people over to work on AO.

[Portulis]

Hmm....a Linux port would have been neat, but from a business standpoint I can't fault Funcom for not putting resources into that. Tribes 2 had a linux port and it didn't sell all that great, neither did Quake 3.

One of these days maybe a Linux port will be a matter of course but for now, profits are on the Win platfrom.

[Nyadach]

Originally posted by MrJafo
Well, it's nowhere near the number of broken promises UO has done.

hehe, totally MrJafo I hear people say FC don't ever listen to us but damn, compared to OSI these guys are Saints Heck, these guys do at least respond to us

As for the loss of stuff, guess its a necessary evil. Nothing in the list seem's too much of a loss so its all bearable. When I saw the title I was screaming inside "they're gonna kill Jobe" hehe, but what you've killed is totally livable if it means you can spend more time huting down those nasty lil rollerrats in the core code *hint*.

As for the linux port wow, as if anyone really bothers. No one has made any money out of linux as thiers an inherint problem with linux user...ie non of them are willing to part with any money! I felt sorry for when Loki (the poor sods who ported Quake3 etc over to it) when they sold up.

[Beaumont]

I didn't see anything in there about the promise that those of us that wanted to solo all the way to level 200 would be able to do so in single missions?
As it stands I think the cutoff point on single missions is from about level 50 to 90 according to your class and IP distribution.
Well, I guess some classes could maby solo to 200, but noone envisioned it taking them 10 years to do it!!!