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Thread: Next Patch.. MAs...

  1. #21
    Hehe, this is an interesting subject, it's always fun to see fellow players pop in and say nice things.

    In PvM, MA's are probably the best longterm damagedealers as the game is on live now (14.5). Rivaled perhaps by some NT's, crats with 3 pets and a few well equipped enforcers, but on average MA's are the best here. We should be. Damage is all we do. Short term is another issue, most professions can pop off a good alphastrike but agents and soldiers do best here.

    Now, in 14.6/14.7 we have a few issues that are a "bit" annoying to MA's.

    * No rootbreaker. (check the DB's. We aint got one.)
    * No reliable way to resist roots. (No way to get nano resist up to efficent levels and be an effective damagedealer.)
    * No viable bows (except perhaps for the howling bow, quite likely on a 18hour unique mob somewhere, hardly balancing no?)
    * No way to equip the few bows that actually do damage, have equip under 5 seconds and have a clip size of more then 3.

    So, MA's will be dead meat to all the rooting professions in the game. Prove me wrong and I'll prove you wrong. Find a way to get the QL200 howling bow self-equipped (1001 bow req) on a MA and I'll applaud. Oh, and we kinda need to selfequip it... MA's swap weapons all the time. Starting with a bow up aint the solution, do you really fear an MA without brawl/shen/dimach? No? Thought so.

    The suggestions from the original poster has some interesting ideas in this context. If MA's can't break root and can't resist a root and can't defend themselves while rooted, something should be done, right? Either raise the MA's ability to resist roots: Nano Nullity shield / Nano resist buff isn't such a wacko idea. Or, increase the ability to take damage wihle sitting there rooted: Short term massive evade boost (30 second GA2 perhaps) isn't such a wacko idea. Give MA's a way to negate roots: A harpoon for the MA to pull in a ranged opponent isn't out there. Or perhaps give the MA's a way to defend themselves while rooted: A way to actually equip those bows? (hint: bow buff?) And perhaps change the bows so that we can get them equipped before the fight is over? (hint: 5 seconds is too long equip time for a weapon that needs to be swapped around)

    Granted, this is mostly for PvP, but PvP will be pretty important in 14.7. With the pending massive init penalties on ELLTS's and UVC, MA's will have 1% crit advantage over a ranged rooting profession with superiour crit weapons. And if the dewd fighting the MA chooses to not equip a scope there are plenty of viable non-critreliant weapons to wield up. MA's don't have that option.

    FYI, this is a rather serious matter. The more experienced MA PvPers have kinda decided to go 15% scope and MoP and equip a flashpoint. That's their analysis and I kinda agree.

    I know this sounds like a stupid thing to discuss when there are other professions who are in worse shape, but MA's were never PvP gods except perhaps in numbers at Camelot. The changes in 14.6/14.7 will put what is supposed to be the best damagedealer in the game (along with the NT) in a pretty sad state in PvP. I know I won't get much sympathy, but these problems are real and I see no solutions to them right now. Engies, crats, MP's and the other neglected professions will likely get love before MA's do, thus we will continue to fall. I think we will see a lot less MA's in the next few patches and please... refrain from the "good riddance". It aint funny.
    /DaveDread (D.A.V.E.D.R.E.A.D.: Digital Artificial Violence and Exploration Device/Replicant Engineered for Assassination and Destruction mohahaha)

    200 Opifex Clanner Gimp - Dinged in Style! (dimached a Virulent Minibull) Finally got my head straight, nothing like a goat helmet to get you in shape again. Oh, and those marks on my forehead (yah, still visible through the helmet, duh)... It was a Motorcycle baby. Really. Ran me over in West Athens while I was working on my tan. Think I look bad? You should see the biker.

  2. #22
    Originally posted by DaveDread
    Hehe, this is an interesting subject, it's always fun to see fellow players pop in and say nice things.

    In PvM, MA's are probably the best longterm damagedealers as the game is on live now (14.5). Rivaled perhaps by some NT's, crats with 3 pets and a few well equipped enforcers, but on average MA's are the best here. We should be. Damage is all we do. Short term is another issue, most professions can pop off a good alphastrike but agents and soldiers do best here.

    WTF, excuse me? Damage is all you do? How is damage all you do when in ADDITION to having the best dmg output in the game by FAR, you ALSO have heals (not great heals, but it's heals, they help a LOT), 1,25/1,25 weapons that do more dmg than most 2,5/2,5 weapons, enabling you to go full def while punching at 1/1 with GREEN EVADES, best evade buff in the game, making you have umm what.. what is it.. yeah the BEST evades/defense after fixer (difference is fixers have to pay 600mill for their suit of uberness, MAs gets it for free). You also have AC buffs, making ANOTHER defensive nano. Don't give me ***** about being an all offensive class.
    Strip away all those things, and yes then you can keep your damage. But no, that's not going to happen.

    Cry me a f*king river.
    Last edited by Nihil; Nov 6th, 2002 at 02:51:16.
    Obit lvl 218 Soldier (Field Marshal)

  3. #23
    Originally posted by DaveDread
    I think we will see a lot less MA's in the next few patches and please... refrain from the "good riddance". It aint funny.
    to them it is funny, cause they don't know enough of what they are doing to kill an ma. well, we'll see how funny it is when they can't get a mop anymore since all the high lvl pvp ma's that could cast it quit or rolled other toons.

    oh yeah, for all of you that i see yucking it up, don't even ask me for any buffs cause you're gonna get a big NO.

    (edit)
    My herd of sheep:
    Grado 152 Clan MP STORM
    Prizefighter 106 Clan agent
    Jihado 147 Clan NT STORM
    Drukqs 91 Omni MA
    Oresta 81 Clan MA
    Chataya 89 Omni Fixer
    PinionX 167 Clan Crat STORM
    Dirige 50 Clan Soldier

    added all of these toons to my "refuse to buff list" ... people like you are the reason for nerfs. grow up and learn how to play the game before you start screaming that something is unbalanced.
    Last edited by Alli; Nov 6th, 2002 at 02:50:06.

  4. #24
    Originally posted by garzini


    to them it is funny, cause they don't know enough of what they are doing to kill an ma. well, we'll see how funny it is when they can't get a mop anymore since all the high lvl pvp ma's that could cast it quit or rolled other toons.

    oh yeah, for all of you that i see yucking it up, don't even ask me for any buffs cause you're gonna get a big NO.

    (edit)
    My herd of sheep:
    Grado 152 Clan MP STORM
    Prizefighter 106 Clan agent
    Jihado 147 Clan NT STORM
    Drukqs 91 Omni MA
    Oresta 81 Clan MA
    Chataya 89 Omni Fixer
    PinionX 167 Clan Crat STORM
    Dirige 50 Clan Soldier

    added all of these toons to my "refuse to buff list" ... people like you are the reason for nerfs. grow up and learn how to play the game before you start screaming that something is unbalanced.
    I start screaming about something is unbalanced? I did not do that, DaveDread the wise said MAs only got good damage (oo barely ahead of NTs *cough*yeah*cough*), no defenses, which is BS.
    You won't give me buffs now? OMG I guess I'll have to turn to the 1000000 other MAs then (yes there might be a reason why so many ppl have rerolled to MAs... hmm must be because they're so ****ty a class). And yes I do know what I'm talking about I have a lvl 130 MA as well.

    edit: nice irony with that sig of yours sounds like you're doing some nerf cryin' on your own.
    At least I'm grown enough to realize that sometimes nerfs ARE necessary, hell I've been nerfed dozens of times. FC is NOT a bottomless well of money, if it's the choice of using 2000 manhours on buffing 12 classes, or 2 hours on balancing an item/ability, with 99% chance that some of the new abilities they gave the now buffed classes are overpowered as well, making this cycle go round and round.. yeah, sometimes nerfs ARE necessary.
    Last edited by Nihil; Nov 6th, 2002 at 02:59:56.
    Obit lvl 218 Soldier (Field Marshal)

  5. #25
    lvl 130 ? LOL, play him a little longer and learn something about the prof.

    get him to lvl 180 and pvp with him for a long time, say 6 month like i did. then you will have some understanding of how ma's are in pvp.

  6. #26
    Originally posted by DaveDread
    If MA's can't break root and can't resist a root and can't defend themselves while rooted, something should be done, right? Either raise the MA's ability to resist roots: Nano Nullity shield / Nano resist buff isn't such a wacko idea.
    First off, I'd like to say that yes...this pvp nerf is complete bull****. It became quite apparant that they were going to nerf the MA when they started fielding possible ways to improve the MA special attacks. Will the MA be the worst pvp prof....I'm not too sure. But it'll definitely not be a strong one. And many who started the MA did it for pvp. I know I did. :P

    However, I can't help but feel a little smug about roots. Welcome to the pet prof's sandbox. We have used every argument you have displayed, and then some...and we have been ignored. It'll be interesting to see if you too are similarily ignored. Or if Funcom in its shiny white armor swoops out of the sky and delivers you from your plight.

    With that fleeting moment of smugness gone, I'd like to end with my sincere hope that Funcom has done or will do something about roots.

  7. #27
    Originally posted by garzini
    lvl 130 ? LOL, play him a little longer and learn something about the prof.

    get him to lvl 180 and pvp with him for a long time, say 6 month like i did. then you will have some understanding of how ma's are in pvp.
    yeah you've played MA for 6months, you're leet you roxxor, bet you've figured out 1000s of ways of buffing up and presing q 1-2-3 by now. LOL. LOL.
    Obit lvl 218 Soldier (Field Marshal)

  8. #28
    no, i said hit lvl 180 like i did, then pvp for 6 months like i did. i've been playing ma for about a year now. long enough to know from your comments that you're a noob to the ma proffesion. you can't be taken seriously if you don't know what you're talking about.

    go start another toon and power lvl to lvl 130 again. that doesn't mean you know how to play your toon. here's a little trivia question for you. no cheating and looking in the db's for the answer either mr. smarty pants

    Q. what is the highest ql ma nano in the controlled destruction line?

    A. you don't know, and i'll bet 1 million credits on that fact. gotcha on that one didn't i?

    Q. without looking, what are the skill req's to use that nano?

    A. you are stumped again.

    Q. without looking, tell me the req's for a ql 200 shen.

    A. you don't know any of these answers, therefore are not qualified to scream about how overpowered ma's are.

    edit here: there are many other things that i know you are un-educated about with the ma prof. if you were educated in them all, you would have a much different opinion.
    Last edited by Alli; Nov 6th, 2002 at 03:28:52.

  9. #29
    MAs are just about perfectly balanced, not overpowered... but they sure as hell don't need anymore loving. Anyone saying that is just being greedy and shortsighted. I said it once and I'll say it a million more times, people really do need to look past their own respective classes and at the bigger picture.

  10. #30
    Originally posted by garzini
    no, i said hit lvl 180 like i did, then pvp for 6 months like i did. i've been playing ma for about a year now. long enough to know from your comments that you're a noob to the ma proffesion. you can't be taken seriously if you don't know what you're talking about.

    go start another toon and power lvl to lvl 130 again. that doesn't mean you know how to play your toon. here's a little trivia question for you. no cheating and looking in the db's for the answer either mr. smarty pants

    Q. what is the highest ql ma nano in the controlled destruction line?

    A. you don't know, and i'll bet 1 million credits on that fact. gotcha on that one didn't i?

    Q. without looking, what are the skill req's to use that nano?

    A. you are stumped again.

    Q. without looking, tell me the req's for a ql 200 shen.

    A. you don't know any of these answers, therefore are not qualified to scream about how overpowered ma's are.

    edit here: there are many other things that i know you are un-educated about with the ma prof. if you were educated in them all, you would have a much different opinion.
    Oh damn! You got me there! I don't know the reqs and names of the highest controlled destruction nanos! I'm such an idiot! 'Cause THAT's what it takes to be a great PVP MA like yourself?

    I must say, I'm stomped by your great wit and cleverness. sheez!

    Whatever. I stated facts, then you throw some irrelevant POS at me. Fact is you're greatest dmg dealers, and have great defenses. Facts. Care to dispute that? Or would you like to ask me some more pointless irrelevant trivia?

    Would love to stay here longer and listen to your senseless drivel but I'm going to bed, good night .
    Obit lvl 218 Soldier (Field Marshal)

  11. #31

    Perspective?

    everybody has a reason to complain...

    every profession has their gimpiness...that's a sad part of balance, happiness comes with godliness...guess what those GA fixers have something to complain about even with GA4, docs have a LOT to complain about, even with those stacking DoTs...all valid complaints...

    the thing i disagree most is that you guys actually think it's valid you should get the NEXT love patch? you think you are less gimpy than ALL other chars? that there are NO other profs out there that deserve love? have you TRIED to pvp with an engi? or a crat? have you TRIED to play all these other profs as much as your damned MA? I'm sure MA's have a lot of legitimate complaints, but if you THINK for a second that you are the GIMPIEST prof and you NEED the most love NEXT patch....

    read the flames, i have no reason to repeat them.

    Raawwr

    Atrox Crat, but apparently still more uber than an MA cuz he can't use his 200 shen...i wonder if MA's realize that crats can NEVER self cast all their nanos without uber rare drops =/...and our highest nano is under ql 190...

  12. #32
    i never said other profs don't need love. i also never said they should be nerfed. i'm so pissed off because we are getting nerfed in this patch, that's something that just should not happen. instead of nerfing i want them to fix things.

    fix broken inits. don't nerf the bow so i can't use it anymore.
    nerf to shen has absolutely no reason for it whatsoever.
    crit nerf? that's the only thing we have going for us ma's. would you like it if they nerfed your crat nukes/stuns/roots/calms ?

    i just don't understsand why these things had to be nerfed. take any one of em on its own and this patch isn't as hard to swallow. but with all of the nerfs coming down at once, it totally changes everything. they have effectively taken away 80% of what i can do in pvp. 80% is a lot and i'm probably underestimating the damage to me too.

    but, i'm not going to try to convince you anymore. you don't have a high lvl pvp ma so you won't have any idea what i'm talking about .

  13. #33
    Lay off of InternalFire, I personally know InternalFire in game and she is a true MA. I RESPECT her comments. I do feel like we the MAs of Rubi-Ka are getting nerfed in the next patch. Almost like how the agents got nerfed when AO was first release. And, remember the population of Agents decreased after that.

    All you Atrox Enforcers gotta learn RESPECT.

    Atrox enforcer, "Me don't know what respect is. Can I buy that in the general store? Ohhh, can I play with the wittle leet." Bam! Remains of a Leet. The Atrox starts to cry "I killed my wittle friend, sob." The Atrox picks up the remains of the dead leet and says to itself, "Maybe if I hold the wittle leet tightly maybe it will come back to life, sob. It always works for me when I die."

    That atrox enforcer still holding that dead leet. Stupid Atrox.

  14. #34
    Posted by Davedread.
    In PvM, MA's are probably the best longterm damagedealers as the game is on live now (14.5).

    Posted by Third Eye.
    Fact is you're greatest dmg dealers.
    Let me say no. At least not always.
    2 or 3 days ago, we killed few times the Polymorphed lunatics... I used AODmgdumper. The first time, a lvl 200 soldier did 10k less than me...
    10k on a mob with 1M, maybe 2M hp is ridiculous.
    Then trader joined the team, chain casting 131 wrangle.
    The soldier and me did the same amount of damage. ( ~450k - 450k )

    Maybe i'm a gimp. But the first time, i did more dmg than the other MAs.
    Prolly coz i'm using a torturing tools, and coz they were using fists. So maybe all MAs are gimps ?

    Off course we are not.
    Imo... Vs low - medium lvl mobs, yeah, we are good, the best. Vs high lvl mobs ( good evades ), some prof are as good as us. Vs very high level mobs ( example : GRH - huge evades ) we are outdamaged. This is prolly due to the fact that we are crit dependant And / Or due to the fact that we have less AR than a soldier or an enforcer ( not sure about that - only high lvl char i have is a MA. )

    Posted by Raawwr
    I wonder if MA's realize that crats can NEVER self cast all their nanos without uber rare drops =/...and our highest nano is under ql 190...
    All profession but MPs, I think, have problems about self casting high QL nanos...
    @ lvl 195, i can cast UVC / Kali ( QL 169 - 782 PM/SI ) without switching items. Earlier I had to use a Third Eye of Daria / Eggs / Neleb coat / Ma ring / Ring or tir / TS crystal. Hopefully for lower lvl player, it's a long term buff. No need to cast it while fighting... ( I was about to forgot... we can't self cast our high QL AC buffs w/o gimping our implants. )

    To answer you... Do you really think FC can't give love to more than 1 prof per patch ?... And in case you don't know, next patch scheduled is Notum War. And according to the pre-14.7 DB, we don't get any love. Whereas all pet prof get at least a deroot/desnare buff for their pet.

    <Edit>But I agree...if they only can give love to 1 prof, i don't think MAs deserve it.

    ~ My 2 creds.

    P.S : FC want to see how will be the teamed PvP, and then boost prof... right ? but i'm afraid they won't see lots of MAs on battlefields...
    Last edited by Cronost; Nov 6th, 2002 at 10:22:47.
    Rookie/Apprentice Loot "Cronost" Cursed - Lvl 21x Guru - General of Storm.

  15. #35
    Originally posted by Cronost
    Whereas all pet prof get at least a deroot/desnare buff for their pet.
    Oh please. Nanos that supposedly take 17 seconds to cast should not be used as a basis for your argument. Sorry. :P

    You're right about damage. As far as xping goes, you are the best. Hands down. Switch to uber mobs, and you're not. Mainly because you get parried all the time. It'd be nice if we could have a balance between the two isn't it? :P Too bad most of Funcom's customers primarily xp. I don't think the issue of profs vs ql 250-300 mobs will be looked at any time soon.

    The sad thing is that this nerf will mainly affect MAs in pvp. Agents supposedly have their crits changed to remain at 100%. Soldiers and enforcers have been slowly seeing a trend towards very nice non crit reliant weapons. Though one has to wonder if pvp was happening too fast as Funcom claims, then why are these new uber non crit reliant weapons being introduced? I'm fairly sure an enhanced queen blade will rip me up just as well as a river6. :P Sadly, PVM will be largely untouched unless they really do go forth and nerf llts at some point to not be used with melee. Why is this sad? Because while most high level players do participate in one form of pvp or another, the majority of Funcom's playerbase are not high levels. They're the people who are xping and lft in Tir/20k/NLC/OE. As long as this doesn't affect that group of people, Funcom can easily ignore us when we say it's bull.

    I'm convinced that Funcom will always take the easy way out. Nerf one instead of fixing three. I think for now, high level players are just bidding their time. Log on to chat. Maybe kill something. Maybe pvp a little. But for the most part they are waiting to see what the new games will be like. If they suck, then you'll see a resurgence of high level active players. If they don't, then AO will have completed its transformation in to the eq clone it is vainly trying to become. High level players are the bane of Funcom. It is much easier for them to deal with the new batch of young faces, then it is to deal with us. I'm sure they'll breathe a collective sigh of relief and focus on molding the younger crop of players in to the new image of this game.

    Yea, nerfs suck. Crit nerf sucks. Still, I think mass pvp will still be fun. It does increase the role of those who weren't heavy damage dealers. But profs like the MA should definitely have been compensated in some way.
    Last edited by Zylina; Nov 6th, 2002 at 10:49:40.

  16. #36

    Re: ac buffs

    Originally posted by Cyberbob
    As to ac buffs the professions for that listed in the following order :

    Engi
    Soldier
    Ma

    Not true sorry bob. Lets check the best soldier AC buff:

    Heavy Assault Absorption Shield:
    MM:761 MC:680 NCU:49 AC:+530

    Now the best MA AC buff:

    Form of Tessai:
    MC:770 BM:770 NCU:51 AC:+676 Melee/+574 other

    So you see MA have a better AC buff oh and btw. you should ask how many lvl200 Soldier can selfcast our best AC Buff. I would say not one lvl200 Soldier in this game can do that.

    Oh the team AC buff as well:

    Look at the soldier team AC buff:

    Phalanx:
    PM:668 MM:668 NCU:4 AC:+350

    Now the MA team buff:

    Cohort:
    MC:620 MM:620 NCU:5: AC+400


    So the order is:

    Eng
    MA
    Soldier

    sorry to say that but MAs have better AC buffs. And not to forget that a ma have a crit buff, a ma have "fear" and a ma have team and a target health too. MA have a very good evade buff, MAs have a short duration dmgboost like Summer Rain etc. I would call it a "ma challenger".

    Oh and the "Greater Team Restore Essence" with 2/7 time and a team healing of +350-700 with the fixed inits in 14.6. - well i think this is a very good healing a ma have. Not to forget the target only heal "Enlightened Auro of Healing" with 2/8 time - with fixed recharge inits in 14.6. i think a very good healing. Well true docs, advs, enfs (mongo) heal much better as a ma. But is a ma a healer? No.

    Edited: Something I want to add too - the duration of you AC buffs is longer too. Not much but Phalanx 30mins Cohort: 40mins. Thats still a little bonus too.
    Last edited by Whitesand; Nov 6th, 2002 at 11:09:06.
    You do it cause you have to do it - but you don't do it cause you want to do it.

  17. #37

    Re: Re: ac buffs

    Originally posted by Whitesand
    Not to forget the target only heal "Enlightened Auro of Healing" with 2/8 time - with fixed recharge inits in 14.6. i think a very good healing. Well true docs, advs, enfs (mongo) heal much better as a ma. But is a ma a healer? No.
    In case you didn't realize, fixed inits still have no effect on recharge for nanoprograms. I doubt they ever will. :P

  18. #38
    Hey Cronost, my AR is 996 ( full ql200imp, expertise ,total focus ,ar mastery ,re mastery, AT) with nova flow at lvl177.Do you have really less AR than sol?????
    _______________________________________________

    Lvl 177 cojicoji

  19. #39
    Heh, thanks for the "wise" comment, thats appreciated.

    Anyways, the core of this discussion is of course the basic game mechanics.

    If an MA gets in melee range you should be mincemeat unless you are an enforcer or a soldier. Thus, MA's should be vunerable to roots. But, the combo of the MA nerfs in 14.6/14.7 has in my opinion tipped the scale so that MA's are too vunerable to roots. We will face pretty certain death to rooting professions and what we're asking for is simply some form of defence against it. Nanoresist? Viable bows? Getting the rooter into melee range? These are just suggestions to help fix to what we percieve as a game mechanics problem. And if you consider the speed of Funcom's fixes in the last year, this discussion has to be started asap. I expect some fix to MA's in PvP in 14.8/14.9 at the earliest. If we were to shut up and nicely wait for our turn we would see that fix in 15.1/15.2.

    When the LLTS nerf goes into effect, MA's will have a 1% crit advantage against opponents with range, roots and higher attack rating. There will be plenty of MA-slaying professions.

    There are some other things to consider with the MA's as well... Zylina nailed one down in the post above. Evades as means of defence breaks down completely against high enough attack rating. A soldiers reflect and an Enforcers HP will still be perfectly viable, making them the tanking professions of choice in PvM.

    bah work work. Too bad I can't go into depth at the moment, I'll be back tonight.
    /DaveDread (D.A.V.E.D.R.E.A.D.: Digital Artificial Violence and Exploration Device/Replicant Engineered for Assassination and Destruction mohahaha)

    200 Opifex Clanner Gimp - Dinged in Style! (dimached a Virulent Minibull) Finally got my head straight, nothing like a goat helmet to get you in shape again. Oh, and those marks on my forehead (yah, still visible through the helmet, duh)... It was a Motorcycle baby. Really. Ran me over in West Athens while I was working on my tan. Think I look bad? You should see the biker.

  20. #40
    Btw, soldier OMHH heals more HP over time then the best MA heal. As does the enforcers mongo. MA's can heal others, that is what FC means with #3 healing profession in the game. Oh, and the top MA AC buff is a debuff. -80 agility, - runspeed, +40 strength. That is something no MA casts on himself except for a laugh.
    Last edited by DaveDread; Nov 6th, 2002 at 11:17:32.
    /DaveDread (D.A.V.E.D.R.E.A.D.: Digital Artificial Violence and Exploration Device/Replicant Engineered for Assassination and Destruction mohahaha)

    200 Opifex Clanner Gimp - Dinged in Style! (dimached a Virulent Minibull) Finally got my head straight, nothing like a goat helmet to get you in shape again. Oh, and those marks on my forehead (yah, still visible through the helmet, duh)... It was a Motorcycle baby. Really. Ran me over in West Athens while I was working on my tan. Think I look bad? You should see the biker.

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