Who thinks of the planet?

[________________Necc]

Originally posted by Sonny Washko
Omni-Tek is obviously Omni Corpororation affiliated. There are inter-department conflicts, and some don't get along with eachother, but all support Omni-Tek.

Clans are people who oppose Omni-Tek for whatever reasons, economic, environmental, spiritual, whatever. Some oppose eachother and some have viewpoints that are against all the other clans and Omni-Tek. They are by definition not all united, not even under the council of truth did every single clan unite. So, obviously not all Clans get along with eachother. Some violently oppose eachother.

Neutrals don't have a stake in fighting for control of Rubi-Ka. They are interested in brokering a deal between Omni-Tek and the _majority_ of clans, so that there can be peace. The Neutrals are trying to act as a mediator between the Clans and Omni-Tek, however, not all Neutrals agree on how to accomplish this. So, not all Neutrals get along with eachother.
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Therefore, Desert Winds ideology and desires make it a Clan. Could anyone possibly make this more clear?

Ulyses7
Safe Cracking ~ Smuggler ~ Information ~ Extraordinaire

I don't want to broker no deal between OT and the Clans. I want them to stop destroying my home. And stop shooting at me.

How do you peg me as a mediator, I care equally less for anyone that destroys my home, in whatever manner they decide to do it.

All I know is I'm getting shot by clanners as well as OT personnel. I've never been shot by a neutral tho.

All my life, all I've seen is OT and the Clan alike has been taking things from us neutral, never giving a rats ass wether we needed it or not.

We are pissed at, shunned, shot at, spat at, called whatever name you can come up with at the moment. The way I see it neuts are not worth piss to you people. So why should I want to join any of you.

'Omni-Tek is your friend.' BANG! BANG!
Heh. With friends like that who needs enemies, right?

'We are clanners, we want what's best for everyone.' BANG! BANG! Well, that does obviously not include neutrals.

Mediate peace between you? Bah! I just as soon see you shoot each other clean of the planet, but since it would hurt my home, all out war isn't to prefer.

Now before you go all crazy telling me you, of all people, isn't like that....all I ask is. Prove me wrong, and maybe I can start respecting you. Hurt me, and I hurt back.

[_________Don Carnage]

Omni, clans; you don't want to admit it but you're exactly the same. I see the same slef rightious jerks in omni 1 kicking clanners out that I see in tir throwing things at me and calling me scum. Technically I'm omni, because omni 1 is my home. I was born and raised there and nobody is gonna move me. Neutrals just want to be left alone, but in this case that will not likely to happen. My perspective is that I am me, I fight for what I personally believe in. At this time I fight for survival and to protect my friends. I have killed clanners, I have killed neutrals, even omni have fallen. Rubi ka is our home, to all of us, fighting eachother is just going to weaken our hold on it. The real enemy is the ICC who would take it from us without a though if we let them. The smartest thing to do would be to come together and fight to keep our home....but that won't happen will it, I was born here, I will die here. That's all any of us needs to say.

[Meister]

I wasn't born here, i was sent here. Rubi-Ka means nothing to me. All that matters is the ideals and virtues of Omni-Tek. This is your home Don? We should 'all' come together you say? Omni-Tek does not need the help of the Neutrals, or the clan scum. I see ICC as a problem, but a secondary one next to the clans. The again, it doesn't matter what i see. It doesn't even matter what i think. Unlike you, i don't see 'myself' as the most important thing in the universe.

I am a miniscule part of a larger entity. It's not for me to decide who i should fight, who i should stand up against or who i should help. Omni-Tek let's me know what they require of me, and it is done. I have no orders to fire on ICC. I have no orders to 'rally' the masses. Maybe if you followed orders better, you wouldn't have all these many problems or moral dilemmas. I sleep quite peacefully at night knowing what i do is in the best interest of something that is exponentially more important then I.

You worry too much, trust in Omni-Tek and do your job. You'll find life so much more clearer. There is no confusion. A wonderful state of being.

[Trisagiona]

Trisagiona writes:

I so agree with you Necc, Omni and the Clans has only caused pain and grief to my people. I would prefer if they all launched out into space, had a major battle.. preferably killing eachother down to the very last man. I'm tired of them spitting a me, calling me names.. shooting at me.. I just want to be able to go out into the desert without having to wear heavy armour just in case someone attacks me. I want a fee Rubi-Ka, with a good law. I want peace...

But untill then I will fight.. and I will fight hard.. and if someone comes over to me and tells me that I've got no right to fight, living in a neutral community.. I will laugh at them.. as they have laughed at me all my life.. .

[Trisagiona]

continued post:

You made an enemy of me.. You made me hate you all.. and I believe there are lots of neutrals that feels the same way.


May you live in interesting times


Trisagiona advisor of the Desert Winds

[AiymaNeut]

And so for the actions of a few you resolve to battle us all?

Aggregating the crimes of warmongers into a generalization of the entire population condems us all to doom.

[________________Necc]

Originally posted by Alamexis
And so for the actions of a few you resolve to battle us all?

Aggregating the crimes of warmongers into a generalization of the entire population condems us all to doom.

No! It's quite simple. Maybe even you could understand this. I fight if attacked. As simple as that. I refuse to take part in your conflict unless it is to save my home or my scrawny little opifex butt. Or the butts of my friends of course.

[AiymaNeut]

Originally posted by Garret 'Necc' Scheer


Maybe even you could understand this.

And what, by chance, do you imply by this statement Mr. Scheer?

[spookiepants]

Originally posted by Alamexis
And so for the actions of a few you resolve to battle us all?

Aggregating the crimes of warmongers into a generalization of the entire population condems us all to doom.

Great muse, but I dont think it applies here. We are not talking about crimes of a few. We are talking about codeified hostility within both Omni-Tek and Clan areas.

If I get shot at by an Omni-Tek employee, an Omni-Tek guard will intervene and kill ME.

If I get shot at by a Clanner, a Clan guard will itnervene and kill ME.

These are *institutional* acts of violance against those who are not affiliated with them. Clan and Omni-Tek are criminal groups in my eyes, and I'll say it again: They will not last on Rubi-ka.

This planet is destined towards self-rule. Not because we are 'imposing' this will on others, but because its the inevitable destination on the trail you are actions are leading us down.

[Nevver]

Originally posted by Blix
If I get shot at by an Omni-Tek employee, an Omni-Tek guard will intervene and kill ME.

If I get shot at by a Clanner, a Clan guard will itnervene and kill ME.

These are *institutional* acts of violance against those who are not affiliated with them. Clan and Omni-Tek are criminal groups in my eyes, and I'll say it again: They will not last on Rubi-ka.

So, if I were to take a shot at you, noone from your organization would try to shoot me?

[________________Necc]

Originally posted by Alamexis


And what, by chance, do you imply by this statement Mr. Scheer?

Whatever you want to read into it, man. I'm not fuzzy.

[________________Necc]

Originally posted by Nevver

So, if I were to take a shot at you, noone from your organization would try to shoot me?

I would.

[spookiepants]

Originally posted by Nevver

So, if I were to take a shot at you, noone from your organization would try to shoot me?

Hi Nevver:
In my scenario I never took a shot.
If a Neutral merely enters Omni-Tek areas, they might be attacked by Omni-Tek employees. The Omni-Tek attacker will then get backup from Omni-Tek guards.

This illustrates that there is institutional violence against Neutrals, rather than "Crimes of a Few" that was claimed by Alamexis.

[AiymaNeut]

Let me be more specific, Blix: if you believe this is "institutional" hostility, do you view me in the same light? If you and I were to meet in an area of low suppression, and I was unarmed, would you fire upon me?

Generalizations and the failure on your part to recognize that principles of justice and morality are universal and exist within all affiliations will be your inevitable downfall - you risk polarizing the opinions of those who may be sympathetic to your cause.

And, Mr. Scheer, should you ever wish to challenge my mind I can assure you it is a battle you have no hope of winning.

[Nevver]

Yes, I did notice that you were the "innocent" one in your scenarios, Blix. The question here is "is it reasonable to think that a guard is going to act like a judge and jury?"

Guards are paid to do one thing: protect the people they are paid to protect. Of course they are going to gun you down over a person they were hired to protect! They are not going to come over to find out what the problem is and offer an alternative solution to fighting, they are going to assume that the person they are paid to protect who is shooting you has a good reason for doing so.

My suggestion to you is this: Don't make anyone angry while in Omni 1.

[spookiepants]

Originally posted by Alamexis

Generalizations and the failure on your part to recognize that principles of justice and morality are universal and exist within all affiliations will be your inevitable downfall -

Oh my goodness, this is exactly what I am trying to say to you.

It is the generalizations (so clearly illustrated by Nevver's warning not to make anyone angry in Omni-1) by Omni-Tek and Clan that are the problem here.

A Guard (ie: a representative enforcer of *law*) will kill a Neutral if a neutral is the victim of an unprovoked attack . There is no morality in this. There is no justice.
It is simple factional protectionism.

I'm sorry, but I think I do understand these principals.

Do I view you in the same light? Well I supose that's irrelvant in this discussion. But let me just say that your defense of the Omni-Tek's actions would make me afraid to meet you in Omni controlled territory.

[________________Necc]

Originally posted by Nevver
Yes, I did notice that you were the "innocent" one in your scenarios, Blix. The question here is "is it reasonable to think that a guard is going to act like a judge and jury?"

Guards are paid to do one thing: protect the people they are paid to protect. Of course they are going to gun you down over a person they were hired to protect! They are not going to come over to find out what the problem is and offer an alternative solution to fighting, they are going to assume that the person they are paid to protect who is shooting you has a good reason for doing so.

My suggestion to you is this: Don't make anyone angry while in Omni 1.

Brain washed, mindless guards would do that I suppose.

[Nevver]

It is the generalizations (so clearly illustrated by Nevver's warning not to make anyone angry in Omni-1) by Omni-Tek and Clan that are the problem here.

A Guard (ie: a representative enforcer of *law*) will kill a Neutral if a neutral is the victim of an unprovoked attack . There is no morality in this. There is no justice.
It is simple factional protectionism.

Did I not say that guards are not judges/jurors? The only justice they are there to dispense is your death if you are engaged with an employee of Omni-Tek. Likewise, you choose to disregard Omni-Tek's law when it suits you, so why should you receive fair treatment from Omni-Tek? If you want fair treatment, fill out an application form and return it to Omni-Recruitment.

The difference between Clanners and Neutrals who think like you do is that Clanners are willing to accept that they are targets for going against Omni-Tek. You want to shop in Omni-Tek stores, drink yourself silly in our bars, yet you also want to overthrow Omni-Tek as the governing body. I'd say you already get more than enough fair treatment since you're still alive.

And yes, it is simple factional protectionism.

[b]Originally posted by Garret 'Necc' Scheer [/i]
Brain washed, mindless guards would do that I suppose.

Did I not say that guards are not judges/jurors?

[AiymaNeut]

In response, Blix:

Originally posted by Blix
It is the generalizations (so clearly illustrated by Nevver's warning not to make anyone angry in Omni-1) by Omni-Tek and Clan that are the problem here.

A Guard (ie: a representative enforcer of *law*) will kill a Neutral if a neutral is the victim of an unprovoked attack . There is no morality in this. There is no justice.
It is simple factional protectionism.

What Nevver said is correct; you missed the point of her statements. Let me illustrate by using a similar example: If you witness your child, sibling or relative being attacked by someone, do you not unquestionably rush to their aide? Keep in mind that you don't know how such attack was instigated. In absence of prima facie evidence of who was the first to take hostile action, it is instinct to rush to the side of those whom you are tasked (whether biologically, morally or contractually) to protect. That is the situation in which the Omni-1 guards find themselves. They are entrusted with the sole and exclusive duty of protecting the residents of Omni-1.

Note that I make no representation as to the morality or natural justice of these actions. In an ideal world, these officers would have powers of arrest and would not have to employ a "shoot first, ask questions later" policy of conduct. However, they have no such powers. That is not their fault, nor does the burden of the absence of such powers fall upon the shoulders of the protectees of those guards. This is a corporate policy issue; one which we, as ordinary citizens, have no control over. You thus cannot condemn us for the operations of a machine.

Do I view you in the same light? Well I supose [sic] that's irrelvant [sic] in this discussion.

But it is not. It is the individual who is judge of relevance and irrelevance, and it is also the individual who makes a conscious decision as to whether or not to act so prejudicial towards his fellow citizens.

You think with your heart, Blix, but there is a danger inherent in doing so. Passion all too often mutes the utterances of the mind.

[AiymaNeut]

Originally quoted by Nevver
It is the generalizations (so clearly illustrated by Nevver's warning not to make anyone angry in Omni-1) by Omni-Tek and Clan that are the problem here.

A Guard (ie: a representative enforcer of *law*) will kill a Neutral if a neutral is the victim of an unprovoked attack . There is no morality in this. There is no justice.
It is simple factional protectionism.

Originally quoted by Alamexis
It is the generalizations (so clearly illustrated by Nevver's warning not to make anyone angry in Omni-1) by Omni-Tek and Clan that are the problem here.

A Guard (ie: a representative enforcer of *law*) will kill a Neutral if a neutral is the victim of an unprovoked attack . There is no morality in this. There is no justice.
It is simple factional protectionism.

Dammit Nevver, get your nano-progs out of my head!