Wrangles
Will you pay a trader to wrangle you for something that you can wield to power of for 3 minutes. So what you can use that gun for the next 9 lvls or so. The demand for wrangles will be severly decreased. The income for traders will be severly decreased for an already money luxirous world.
I hope they go trough with the weapon nerf .. its sad to see a lvl 60 trader do 3 times the damage of a lvl 60 Soldier..
and if they dont they have to boost Soldiers and other combat classes (traders are a semi combat class) hence they have to enhance the wildlife so it will be some sort of resitance, and in the end making life a bad place for other professions like NTs and Adventurers who cant majorly overequip without owning 160 ncu and have 10 other players to help them with it.
yes traders do a lot of dmg if they over-equip enough.. just like everyone else who over-equips enough.. but Lumin 3 times the dmg? yeah right mate, that must mean ur using a very crap gun on a very crap char, not hard to outdamage u then.. all we got is dmg, not speed, not hp, not anything else.. just dmg and our wranglers.. most of us don't give a flying fook about pvp and we're supposed to make more money.. or atleast that's what i thought when i picked trader.. trader? money? get it?
all u ppl saying that the nerf will be a good thing ur nuts.. every trader plays his class differently to some extent as do other classes..
all in all, it's not the nerf i mind the most, it's that i spent MILLIONS just trying to purchase all wrangler-nanos to be able to offer the service to others.. ie trading.. and i don't like making a that whole line of nanos a useless purchase.. yes, they can be used once in a while again but if i knew that earlier i wouldn't have bothered with wranglers.. too hard to find for too much cash on shop channel..
besides, not counting some exceptions most traders ask reasonable prices for wranglers as in 85k for a +85 one etc.. anything lower then +74 is usualy by donation since that's the last nano to be bought in shop.. have u got any idea how many tells traders get from low lvls who carry a huge gun which they paid a huge amount of cash for but they can't even dish out 100k for a wrangler? hm yeah right.. even asking 85k for the +85 ppl still complain till i explain that it's a Q120+ nano.. and 85k for that high a buff is scraps and you know it.. 500k for a +132? actually seems quite reasonable for me since the guy probably had a very hard time finding it and/or paid several mil for that nano on shopchannel.. several mil being 5-10 mil in this case.. i know i did..
but never mind though, all non-traders seem to know more about the class then us traders anyway so i'm sure ur right :/ yes i'm pretty sure about that..
where's the moaning about MPs and DOCs btw? they're support classes too and will own ur ass in pvp with the same shotgun as us not to mention their uber heals/pets.. u think the xtra 20-30ql we can overequip does that much? nope.. and don't tell us we don't know how to play our class lol!! it's just that everyone plays a bit diff and still for fun i hope..
and turning a lvl 200 soldier into a Q80 wielding wimp? yeah right, why don't U go and learn ur class turbulence.. or do u plan on taking your time doing 10 tries to let the 190% resist line stick while the other guy just takes potshots at u? and maybe after that stack some higher Q ones on that lol pff.. if ther's so many traders that are FOR this change like u say then why out of the 18 traders i know does not one like the change? but yeah ,ur probably a pvp-er which will cap lots of other players to make FC see taht it just isn't right and then nerf us some more.. like i said, i don't pvp unless needed so i don't care about that.. and a a support class so shouldn't you but ofcourse ur one of the guys that chose trader to pvp and not to well.. trade.. bugger off to put it simply, you're an emberrasment not us.. if i wanted to pvp i'd have chosen soldier, enf or whatever..
Cheddar's turn
At level 152 I realize I must not have even a fraction of the experience with Traders as many of you. I mean, who knows more about traders than people who don't play them, right?
I belong to Silent Night, the highest level guild in the game. We have the highest level doc, adventurer, engineer, and a bunch of other diehards. None of us have any idea how our classes work. It's crazy I tell you! I wish there were more people who could set us straightOriginally posted by Turbulence
I cant believe you guys are whining...you are totally clueless as to the way your class works.
Well I always try and play my "tarder right", but I've found that divest and plunder are not always sure things. You see, traders do not have green casting skills that can be raised 5 points per level. NTs and Engineers, on the other hand, have green nano-resist. It doesn't do a damn versus mobs, but if you jack it up real high, it helps resist the weaker casting classes.First and foremost Traders are practically the only class that will be able to overequip after these changes go in because if you play your tarder right you will be using debuffs and your skill will always be high enough that you are not overequipped.
Also, when you get up over the 125, most weapon-based classes can overequipp nicely just with their native skill + implants + self buffs. A level 146 Enforcer in my guild switches freely between level 200 beams and hammers. Agents can still equipp a good rifle, and Fixers only need riot control after awhile. Same for Soldiers. Just avoid Traders, or jack your nano-resist up, and everything is as before for the weapon classes.
And just how long do you think this is going to last? Funcom is very wary of Trader debuffs. They nerfed the hell out of deprive/divest and ransack/plunder back when maybe 6 people were seriously playing Traders.Second of all this makes Traders the strongest calss in PvP they can no efectivaley disable all pet classes from controlling their pets, Can turn level 200 soldiers into QL80ish wielding wimps. They can shut down NT and other professiosn abilities to cast.
Additionally, when the original overequipping nerf was included in 12.6 on test, the number of people playing Traders increased about 10 fold on the live servers. Just the idea of turning Traders into gods made people reroll. If the proposed changes are implemented as is, they'll have 2 servers full of Traders real quick.
And then they'll nerf liberally, just like they nerfed the casting range in response to the growing number of powerful NTs. We already live in fear of a shotgun nerf... last thing we need is this.
1. Debuffs are not useless right now. When they land in pvp, they work well and I don't think there's an imbalance issue now. Of course, if the proposed changes are implented and the servers fill up with Traders, then you can kiss the NT class goodbye just based on the debuffs getting constantly slung around.And yet you still complain and say you dont want these changes? You would rather have yoiur debufs do nothing other than make pretty colors around you when you cast them? Thats all they currently do and these changes are looked highly upon by most Traders so I suggest this little group of whiners here get a clue and go out and learn how to play their class rather than ***** about that which they do not know.
2. Most Traders I've talked to are vary wary of this nerf. It begins from noble intentions, but will ultimately require the largest rebalancing act seen in this game (both in live and beta). They will have to re-examine every class, all the weapons, and many nano-formulas. Quite frankly, very few have confidence in Funcom's ability to do this.
I'm the third highest Trader in the game right now. I've been playing since launch without sploits or cheats and I know the class about as well as anyone else. I would really be interested to know where your deep insights about Traders come from.P.S. Do you honestly think noone is going to want to be wrangled into a gun anymore simply because the QL will scale down to their appropriate level? Sheesh folks get a clue already...your an embarrasment to the Trader class.
Maybe you could put on a clinic for those of us who need to "get a clue" so we're not such an "embarrasment".
-Cheddar-
Some free advice
Don't beg. It makes you look like a beggar.
maybe so .. but last time i used my soldier (still lvl 60) I was in a team with a lvl 60 trader who had equipped a ql 154 shotgun .. he outdamaged me 3 times killing mobs on 3-4 hits ALONE.but Lumin 3 times the dmg? yeah right mate, that must mean ur using a very crap gun on a very crap char, not hard to outdamage u then..
ok this might not be regular but it sure takes the spiffy out of a player that is supposed to be the damage dealer in the group.
I had a hard time getting equiped my ql 86 Nova Flow .. and then I get this. I have good implants designed visley .. I got good Ac and I tought I had a good gun but I guess I don't.
my problem was that I had to invest in 4 skills and get them all buffed while this trader could either wrangle himself or get someone else to do it in that only skill .. and that takes much less NCU hence much easyer to buff.
now with the nerf I would be on a equal lvl when it comes to dealing damage as he, even tho he had a ql 154 shotgun, but he could still get the upper hand on me cause he can buff himself .. at lvl 60 I cant buff all the skills I need myself and getting others to do it would take lots of time and resources... or i could get this trader to buff me and the others in the party, and at the same time pay him a lil fee for the trouble.
So the role would change for the trader but he will still earn cash cause he enables the uber equipped gear on the other players in his team something they ahve to wait lots of lvls to do on their own (if they even can that).
this will ofcourse only work if funcom decides to go trough with their plans on reducing mob strenght on higher lvls. making it bareable for the regular world to hunt
Yhea that would be fair.... As long as they give me your reflect shields hp buffs and over all HP.Originally posted by Lumin
now with the nerf I would be on a equal lvl when it comes to dealing damage as he, even tho he had a ql 154 shotgun, but he could still get the upper hand on me cause he can buff himself .. at lvl 60 I cant buff all the skills I need myself and getting others to do it would take lots of time and resources... or i could get this trader to buff me and the others in the party, and at the same time pay him a lil fee for the trouble.
So the role would change for the trader but he will still earn cash cause he enables the uber equipped gear on the other players in his team something they ahve to wait lots of lvls to do on their own (if they even can that).
You still dont get it. Traders bring one thing to a fight with a mob. Thats thier Gun. Traders have crappy HP. Skill drains on a mob do Very Little to nothing depending on the mobs class. The only way a trader brings a gun to the fight is if they were able to buy the NANO'S that let them epuip that gun in the first place. I will never ever save up the 1 million credits people get for the nanos that are 125+ at the lvl i need them to get a better gun, if you destroy my buisness or offer me a " little fee".
Its a vicous circle that barly functions the way it is. You mess with that in any way and it falls apart. And if you tell me to run missions for the money you can blow that out your.. ear. 30 hours of game play to raise the money.. 8 - who knows many hours on the shopping channle to find ONE nano, so i can equip the gun that will take 30+ hours of mission runnig to buy. IF you mess with ocosional patron who has had a good day and tips me well i would not be able to advance in this game without muching off of a guild. The guild that I would bring what to after this change? I am not a mucher. Now i bring a much needed ability that defines my class. After I would have my witty conversation and a convenience buff.
No no no, im not going to bend over the table and listen to people who havent played the cass tell me how it is, or how it will be. When FC tottaly defies their entire track record with changes and does it JUST RIGHT so that this unique set of cricumstances is recreated, you would have a valid point in your argument. I would like them to get more then half of the classes totally FUNCTIONING before they tear mine down with another Broad change to game dynamics. That IS NOT asking much of a respectable game company.
look over equiping is fair all can do it
make it simple dont stop over equiping make it fair
example stop trader for depriev ransack wrangler form nother trader to do hgiher ransack deprieve thats the bug not over equiping trader deprieve ransack and outside traders wrangler is a exploit imho not other prof getting wrangler to equip
make it fair let traders get wrangler form other trader and nerk they deprieve and ransack nano line to only take from mobs and not so they can get points for sleef then everyone should be sondly happy and traders will be brought back down to size least this is fair to all
also imho i think if everyone can equip them same meaning higher lev weps and armor shouldnt be a prob for anyone so to all those who want balence go spend the time i do readin site investigating stuff to figure out to best customize and optimise my skills char and weps thnx
dilinger, can you rephase what you type?
are you saying that you wish that traders can only get buff by deprive and ransack nanos? And that wrangles from other traders should be stop?
I just realized something .. people here play the game to be the best and not because its a game .. I could care less if I had 1 or 10 million or just 10k .. infact my soldier got only 100k and thats cause he get money feeded by my main (doing missions as a soldier is so streamlined that its past boring).
currently I got no sympathy for the traders .. if you want to play something nerfed play an Adventurer.. but please dont, i dont want your whining on those boards aswell
I can understand not earning 1 mill a day (to be extreme) by just standing at bb ent will be hard .. but what you fail to see is that people will still need those buffs .. if I could equip my Soldier with a ql 180 nova flow I would do that even tho I wouldnt get its full potential .. why ? cause I dont have to worry upgrading my weapon for the next 60 lvls or so since it will always increase as I lvl
it will be one time large insvestment for me but i dont have to waste anymore money on over expensive traders and people who overprice their goods
but as I wrote earlyer I hope they go trough with it, and in my point of view thats what would be a good solution .. if you want to bash upon that feel free but nothing you have written so far convince me otherwise.
That’s it. I’m done. If you gimps cant follow a conversation when someone brings up his or her reasons why you don’t understand what you’ve never played and you just ignore it. Its time for everyone to let you morons scream away for whatever they helll you want. I’m done caring about what FC does. I’m done reasoning with the illiterate.
I like being ignorant, anything wrong with that ?
Oh btw. we should make a post demanding to nerf the bots and pets to the pet classes for if funcom decides to go trough with the nerf the only thing unaffected will be the pet classes.
thing is .. that Traders will loose on it comercialy .. thats a blow but there are other professions that DONT got any nano programs and other tradeskills to relay on that need money aswell, so Traders will loose on it THEN other professions dont even got that income resource now..
I can agree that when you hear the word 'trader' you connect it with money, so they kinda loose a little of what they should be.
it will be and is not fair at all, but heck its a game try to play it and see if you beat it. and in the end something might turn out to work for evryone.
dont be so angry .. its only a game not a real life situation.
*dont be so angry .. its only a game not a real life situation.
then why should u care that someone else outdamages you? it's only a game.. and if ur lvl 60 or whatever with a Q86 gun then to be honest you do kinda suck.. more then half the players (even the casual ones) at lvl 4O carry a bigger gun then you..
it's a game yes, i play for fun.. i had fun purchasing nanos and doing wranglers on ppl (for a while.. other traders will know what a drag it gets to be.. tells, tells, tells.. morons, morons,..) if u can actually believe it.. i have fun trying to make a lot of money, it's just me.. i chose trader cause it fits me.. you chose an ignorant pawn soldier cause it fits you.. simple as that and good for you..
btw at lvl 60 u should have no prob gathering a mil or more, try doing higher lvl missions in teams and sell rare stuff.. only way to make big cash in this game..
look is the real issue over equiping to beat bigger bader mobs over equiping to have alil edge in pvp or using a debuff to buff self to insane high amounts not intended by funcom to over equip outragesly ... isnt this sorta liek fixers run speed buff that was a exploit and they fixed it they didnt go out and nerf running for everyone they fixer it so fixers couldnt eexploit. now this game is supposed to be geared for all dif types and naturlly som epeople gonna be lazy and cheap and not get implants and so forth but people equiping a nice wep 20 qls above theres not the problem its when traders use ranack deprieve then get another trader to cast wrangler on them to cast a biger badder ransack depriev and so forth to get insane high ql wep i say fix traders exploit liek u did fixers runspeed exploit.........
then traders can over equip like everyone else within reason like funcom intended>>>>>>>and yes u guys are right traders and everyone would be gimped at pvm if they nerfed overequiping and traders would be har dto make cash but with all there trade skills greenish im sure it would be easier then nerfing a skill depentant on wepons to make loot that has all blue trade skills liek soldiers advents got it bad and enfs so least traders can use trade skills then]
to make this simple traders are explotiing there debuffs to super buff selves to really get a advantage fix this fix the problem and let the gimps find something else to cry bout because they to lazy to worok hard sotrry for typos but im a lazy typing gimp
Traders are, from my experience, one of the most fun professions to play... largely because they are natural over-equippers capable of bringing the joy of over-equipping to others.
gah. and there are illiterate angry fools screaming for nerfs to our profession (already nerfed essentially, as we cannot be traders without functioning tradeskills)...
guys, i love this game. i love my trader. but then i come and read the official forums, and i realize that the whining selfish brats are just going to ruin everything anyhow...
listen,
you have a problem with traders? please start one. we'd all be glad to help. i've got some old guns and a low-req ncu. heck, i'll makeyour implants. go on. try it. over-equip just once and see how great it is.
I re-iterate my earlier post:
*changing over-equipping will KILL the trader profession as it currently is (a well-balanced support combat class)
*changing over-equipping will enrage all of those who have devoted weeks to the process of over-equipping
the problem of over-equipping is an issue only in pvp. please address pvp issues directly, instead of making accross-the board changes to the game that will cause *severe* profession imbalances
You see that you've got almost every voice from the trader-boards speakign on this topic? hehehe. it matters to us. a *lot*
be careful
Zyxlquith
Lvl 81 Trader
LOL!!!! Very funnyOriginally posted by Orb!t
(for a while.. other traders will know what a drag it gets to be.. tells, tells, tells.. morons, morons,..) i
NT phone HOME!!
Ack, i dont care for the overequipping anymore, FC will do what they feel like anyway, its just that a lvl 7 NT with a ql 15 nuke, competing with an Agent lvl 7 with a ql 90 rifle will get heavily outdmgd... now how to boost that NT?? Cause he should be able to outdmg all profs according to FC, give lvl 7 NTs ql 100 nukes by default? Cause he cant overequip and something needs to be done...Originally posted by Zyxlquith
*changing over-equipping will enrage all of those who have devoted weeks to the process of over-equipping
the problem of over-equipping is an issue only in pvp. please address pvp issues directly, instead of making accross-the board changes to the game that will cause *severe* profession imbalances
Zyxlquith
Lvl 81 Trader
"changing over-equipping will enrage all of those who have devoted weeks to the process of over-equipping"
Hrmm, devoted weeks... devoted weeks on what? Getting the creds to do it? that can be the only thing, cause getting those impants and buffs is the easiest thing to do, but it costs, it costs alot, infact it costs so much that it benefits only those with a high lvl char already...
If i bought AO now.... and logged in, looked at the awesome intro video, "wow, this looks awesome ..." etc, and i decide to make an Enf, cause sure they must be some heavy fighters... i lvl myself to lvl 20, get tokens, do missions for creds (which i need badly) and now get a few implants, and have equipped my "uber" ql 30 beam etc.... Now it would be fun to try this "war"... so i decide to go to the arena, i think i know enough of the game mechanics now.... get challenged by another lvl 17 enf... i should have a good chance against him i think.... *BOING* reclaim term.... wtf happened there, i didnt get one single hit in... go try one more time, just to find the quickest way back to the reclaim term again... I try to powerlvl with some other ppl, i find i cant do nearly as much dmg as the others, hell, i cant even solo... this game sucks i think... and quits the game...
This can actually happen, new ppl to the game find it hopeless to compete with the veterans and to compete with the mobs is nearly impossible, nobody wants them in teams etc...
A small scenario:
("Iownyou, Hardedge and Nanogimp" is fiction, not a real char, at least not to my knowledge)
[Scenario]
Its a very nice day in RK, the sun is shining and the birds are singing... our new citizen is full of hope for this great looking game... and hope to meet some nice ppl...
Supern00b shouts: Lvl 20 Enf lfg =)
[Team]Nanogimp: Invite that Enf over there?
[Team]Hardedge: Nah, teamed with him yesterday, his dmg sucks...
[Team]Nanogimp: Oh, look over there, its "Iownyou", "Garzus" UBER twink, get him now!!!
Suddenly the peace is gone, bad weather coming, thunder... rain... the birds disappear, the Anun Shredders arrives with thier vicious screams... Our new citizen in RK cant get a team... he looks down, and knows he isnt wanted in a team, he cant compete... his damage isnt even close to what that MP pet does.. cant solo missions anymore... mobs are to tough... this isnt fun anymore...
This happens a few times, and he gives up...
[/scenario]
I feel sorry for that lvl 20 enf, yes i do...
Maybe ppl dont give up that easily, but personally i think the overequipping is very unfair to new players, it doesnt exactly invite new players to having fun...
Personally, i dont care that much for the higher lvls, cause all those i team with can use their stuff, actually i would be one of the few loosers of this OEQ nerf, cause i can no longer use my QL 200 Premium Heavy Gamma-Beamer. But for the lower lvls, i think the story is different, there should be some kind of lvl req for buffs and implants, a +130 wrangle shouldnt be available to a lvl 1 character, it causes unbalance no matter what you say.
This is my opinion, flame me if you want, i dont care anymore, all i know is that some big changes are needed.
Last edited by Garzu; Jan 11th, 2002 at 04:07:38.
NT phone HOME!!
Perhaps the easiest solution to Over-equipping would be to double the NCU reqs of all buffs *when not cast on self*
so that IC takes up twice as much space, a +40 wrangle (now only using *19* ncu and frequently requested by knowledgable twinkers for their low-level chars) would take err... 2x19 (sorry, just woke up. can't do math yet). etc.
As everyone knows, getting enough ncu for buffs is a pain as is... A lvl 7 agent, say, with ql 10 complit implants, or even ql 20 complit implants, could no longer equip enough ncu to hold snipers bliss and a +40 wrangle to equip a ql 40 gripo
and yes, i know you can do that with a lvl 7 agent. i'm doing it with mine
however, the real issue with over-equipping remains pvp. Your examples were taken from a hypothetical arena setting. NO ONE minds that an atrox enforcer on their team is doing 1000 points of damage on average a t lvl 60.
All over-equipping issues should be seperated into pvp and pvm. the proposed % caps should be for pvp *only* and probably shouldn't even be implemented, as it would require drastic game rebalance of several professions, something i doubt FC has the time or the ability to implement
Zyxlquith again
I dont see too many evil things with overequiping. If everybody is doing it and everybody IS doing it the balance of the game is not at risk. Also from purely logical stand point if you have to manually push your car the hardest part is to get it moving once it is moving pushing it is easy. Same with overequipping the hardest part is actually getting the uber weapon/armor once it is in your hand you should not have too many problems wielding.
In my humble opinion funcom should concentrate on fixing remaining professions, missions and introducing story line into the game instead of nerfing overequipping.
depends what kind of difference ur looking for - u have to consider that the mob skills r so impossibly hi that depriving them really wont prevent them from doing much - at best u lower their damage multiplier - which in theory should stop them from critting as frequently - but mostly its just going to increase ur own damage mult -- slightly increased damage output and increased chance of critting.. ull only notice a difference in mob abilities if u hit a very low level mob with a very high level deprive.Originally posted by daymeon
This is just a quick question.
Does anyone notice any difference whenever you ransack a mob.
I can tell you that im still getting my face pounded in.
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