25% and 0% zone timers

[Provisioner]

Here's what happens:

* Open to attack in 15 seconds*
* Open to attack in 14 seconds*
* Open to attack in 13 seconds*

** You were attacked my some twink **

* Open to attack in 12 seconds*
* Open to attack in 11 seconds*

** You were hit by nanobots for 540 points of fire damage **

* Open to attack in 10 seconds*
* Open to attack in 9 seconds*
* Open to attack in 8 seconds*
* Open to attack in 7 seconds*

** You were attacked by twink for 670 points of melee damage **

** PvP grace period has ended **

* Open to attack in 6 seconds*
* Open to attack in 5 seconds*
* Open to attack in 4 seconds*

** You were attacked by twink for 489 points of melee damage **

* Open to attack in 3 seconds*
* Open to attack in 2 seconds*
* Open to attack in 1 seconds*

< Counter disappears >

Does this happen to anyone else? You zone into a low gas area and are either dead or dying well before you "countdown" has ended...

[________________Zaal]

... and I will say it again. FC needs to make all zoning occur 100% zones (unless its going into a mission.)

[_____________Kwangju]

Yes as a matter of fact it has. A fellow guild member zoned into 2HO, and he was slautered before the PvP grace period was done timing out. As soon as he zoned in, some text came up stating that he was attcking someone. Then, he was killed by 5 campers.

He tried to grid in again, to make positive that he was not targeting/attacking anyone. As soon as he zoned, the game said he was attacking someone, and the same OT lamers were killing him again.

Somehow they are able to cause him to attack, is it that an OT Enforcer did a Mongo Slam or something, and my friends aggro bar is full right, I am not sure.

[______________Ampris]

Report them using /petition as they are most likely using an exploit.

As well, they are also "rez killing" which to the best of my knowledge is not permitted.

[dropcid]

Originally posted by Ampris
As well, they are also "rez killing" which to the best of my knowledge is not permitted.

Rez killing is different from zone/grid camping... rez killing is sitting at a reclaim terminal killing people continually as they rez.

As for your friend getting attacked, one idea that has been tossed around is that the timer starts when the server begins to zone you, but the client side timer only starts once you zone...

i.e.
1. You start to exit grid, timer starts...tick...tick..tick
2. You take about 10 secs to fully zone... you have 5 secs left
3. Timer on client side starts, shows 15 (time on server shows 5)
4. 5 secs later, you are open to attack.

Best way to fix this? I don't know. This whole timer thing is stupid anyway.
My solution would be a 2 minute invulnerabilitly, which ends the second you move. (i.e. you can sit there for 2 minutes safe, but the minute you move the grace period ends. Any longer than 2 minutes would be too long, would allow "spying" too easily.)

-Dropcid, semi-retired lv59 Omni NT
-SC, First Order-

[Provisioner]

Dropcid,

It's pretty obviously this is what's happening. The only solution is to start the timer when your client knows you have zoned, not the server.

In reality, who don't they just scrap the timer and make you open to attack after the first keystroke or movement...

[dropcid]

Originally posted by Provisioner
In reality, who don't they just scrap the timer and make you open to attack after the first keystroke or movement...

Exactly! That would be my method.
However, What if you just sit there for an hour "spying"
What if 20 people just sit there? then, you'd have a hard time finding someone to attack. Hmm... that might make for an interesting peace rally... damn hippies!

That wouldn't be very fair, so there needs to be some limit, longer than 15 secs, but shorter than.... 5mins? I think 2 mins or the first keystroke/movement would be perfect.

-D

[dropcid]

Originally posted by Provisioner
Dropcid,

It's pretty obviously this is what's happening. The only solution is to start the timer when your client knows you have zoned, not the server.

By the way, this idea would lead to exploits beyond your wildest dreams. It would require the client side to tell the server when it's ready to start counting/be attacked. It would be a very bad idea to give the client side that much control.

On second thought, there may be nothing we can do about this at all. Might as well just get rid of the timers altogether. Stupid idea anyway. I never got that upset over getting camped anyhow. It was just a way of life with MMD and 2h0 (and occassionally 4holes)

-D

[Provisioner]

As for spying: Doesn't matter. You can easily fly out of attack range but still be in visible range with a yalm and good video card. Most of the chatting tends to hand in OOC channels and shouts, so this make little difference.

As for exploits: I don't think it would be exploitable. AO still runs in "mother-may-I?" mode. Meaning, you can do whatever the heck you want on the client, but the server still has to approve it.

In other words, you unplug your network and walk two steps. Your client DID walk those two steps, but you never asked for permission to move nor did the server move you.

So, the moment that the server gets a command packet from you other than the packets being passed from the zone server, you are open for attack.

I really don't see any issues at all with plan, except graphic loading problems in high content area (so maybe give 5 seconds for the machine to load the graphics) :P

As I fly, I don't really have too much of an issue with the 15 second counter...IF it was 15 seconds, I could be in the next zone before my PvP counter ended (of course, maybe this was intended to prevent too many people from running to the next zone, I dunno).

Provisioner

[dropcid]

Originally posted by Provisioner
In other words, you unplug your network and walk two steps. Your client DID walk those two steps, but you never asked for permission to move nor did the server move you.

So, what if you unplug the network and walk 50 steps instead? Then, the client and server synch up and you are halfway across the zone before the server flips the switch.
Never, ever, trust the client.

Originally posted by Provisioner

As I fly, I don't really have too much of an issue with the 15 second counter...IF it was 15 seconds, I could be in the next zone before my PvP counter ended (of course, maybe this was intended to prevent too many people from running to the next zone, I dunno).

Provisioner

That is exactly my issue with it! Why should you be safe for 15 secs to fly away as you wish, in this dangerous PvP zone? I am no longer afraid at all of 25% zones. This makes the game a LOT less exciting for me now. As I run along between 25% and 75% patches, no one ever has a chance at attacking me. It's too easy. I have no fear anymore. No fear = no fun. It's like killing leets your entire career. It would be easy... you'd never die... but it would be boring.

-D

[Provisioner]

As with any MMORPG, the issue isn't death, it's death by a totally unfair advantage. In UO, it ws 7xGMs taking down newbie miners. I'm not saying that this was how it should/shoun't have been, but it was just plain stupid.

We see the same thing here. A member of the opposite faction waits for you to zone, KNOWS you can't fight back, and kills you. That is not only unfair, it's just plain stupid...

If there is to be mass-transit into PvP zones, make them 75% (like MMD works - I like that).

Again, I don't mind dying (besides, I am very, VERY, proud of the restraint of both clan and omni forces when I grid into 2h0! Typically, it's "Don't kill the neut" or "Let the neut go". If someone DOES kill me, they usually send me a /tell saying "I'm sorry - didn't see that your were a neut". I'll tell ya, people have REALLY changed towards neutrals!). What I do mind is dying when bits of my being are being passed from server to server...

Provisioner.

[Cosmik]

This bug is known and it's being fixed ASAP. That's about all the information I can give at the moment, but is there much else you want to hear? It's being fixed!

However, please do, each time you come across this, bug report it and petition it. It is important that we get all the information we can so its ensured this is fixed and stays fixed. Thanks.

[dropcid]

I'll take this chance to add my little story of how incredibly stupid this timer thing is, and how I used it to my advantage....

Was in Belial the other day for a big war-event thing that didn't work out real well.

Made it into the clan-controlled outpost by flying in and zoning into a building unseen.
Waited a little bit to see if anyone else would make it... they didn't.
Got bored, so I decided to go out on a suicide run (there were probably 50 clanners outside this building, and I was all alone)

Found someone I could attack...
Dropped my long nuke (Feeble gravitational Anomaly)
Dropped my short nuke (Ol' Faithfull)
He was almost dead..... then someone healed him to full health

Saw about 50 people running at me... Knew I couldn't kill anyone, knew I was going to die (as I should have)
Then I thought... HEY! I'll just use this stupid-ass invulnerability after zoning timer.

Ran back into the building....
Went back outside... "You have 15 secs"
Jumped in my yalm
Left - "Later Suckers!"

That was sooooooo lame. I should have been dead. But, because of this timer, I left alive and unhurt, and laughing my ass off at how ridiculous this was. I would be so mad if I was the other guy.

-Dropcid, Semi-retired lv62 Omni-NT
-First Order-

[_____________Hextorr]

personaly once i jump in grid/whompa i start counting to myself from 1-15 and cross my fingers hopping i load before my time ends :/

Glad to hear its beeing fixed

[dropcid]

don't you miss the fear of 25% zones at all?
Was I the only one in the game who liked being scared?

-D

[Provisioner]

There's a difference between being scared of being beat "fair & square" and someone simply ganking you when your computer and FC's servers are synchronizing...

C'mon, be sensible...

Provisioner

[dropcid]

You may think I'm being silly, but I really do miss getting ganked. I remember the fear as I waited for 2h0 to come up....
I don't have that fear anymore.
All the challenge of this game just keeps slipping away.
I liked being scared. I liked knowing I COULD get ganked. It was fun.
Remember the first time you were just walking along and all the sudden it said "25% zone"... remember your pulse quickening? When was the last time you felt that?

Every patch, the game is more about just running missions and powerlevelling.


-D

[______SecretAgentMan]

Originally posted by Defildae
Somehow they are able to cause him to attack, is it that an OT Enforcer did a Mongo Slam or something, and my friends aggro bar is full right, I am not sure.

I won't reveal the details of the exploit (I've never used it, but I've been hit by it)... but I will tell you how to avoid it. Turn your aggro all the way to the LEFT so that auto-attack is disabled and the exploit won't work against you. If you have auto-attack enabled, once they do their 'trick' and you attack back, it's all over for you...

Once your out and safe, then crank your aggro back up to normal.

This is just one more reason why we NEED a keyboard shortcut for modifying the aggro settings. Maybe the + and - keys on the keypad? Shift-+ for max aggro and Shift-- for min aggro?

S.A.M.

[Provisioner]

Originally posted by SecretAgentMan
This is just one more reason why we NEED a keyboard shortcut for modifying the aggro settings. Maybe the + and - keys on the keypad? Shift-+ for max aggro and Shift-- for min aggro?

Wouldn't this turn combat into a game of shift +/-. I mean, with good timing, you could hit, quickly go full def when the other guy hits, rinse, and repeat...? It might make the game a little more realistic, don't get me wrong, but it seems that this is *all* combat would be...

Provisioner