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Thread: Caster problem/solutions for PvP

  1. #1

    Exclamation Caster problem/solutions for PvP

    Here is the problem:

    I am a level 100 NT and my friend is a level 98 Enforcer. The problem below applies to most "tank" classes btw.

    I have 2400 or so nano-pool, he has 5000+ HPs (with buffs on).

    I use Burning Quartet as my nuke (my MC is 640 with all QL125+ Implants and the 60 token board). I have tried other nukes as well, with the same result listed below.

    Problem:

    I run out of nano before I can even come close to killing him. I cannot recharge using a decent kit as you can't use kits in combat. I can use the nano-stims, but they are worthless with the current cost of NFs. And yes, I do run the humidity extractor but it is a bad joke since PvP is over in a few seconds (not 2 minutes.)

    Solution:

    I see three possible solutions.

    1. Make nano like ammo, it can "reload" on the fly while in combat. I think this would help out casters a lot in PvM as well.
    2. Make NFs cost half as much as they used to.
    3. Increase our nano-pool. It would seem reasonable that I would have as much nano as he would have HPs since I am supposed to be a nano-mage and not a tank.

    Thoughts?

    Please keep the flames away, I am really trying to address this from a problem/solution standpoint.

    ** And yes, I know, enforcers are the meanest baddest guys out there, but the fact that it is mathematically impossible for me to kill one solo is disturbing.

  2. #2
    Actually, your second suggestion is a very sound one. I wasn't much of a PvP player before 13.0. I did a little sparring last night in the Tir Arena and found that it's at least competitive now. The lowered damage is great for extending the fights and adding a good deal of strategy. Problem is, melee and ranged weapon users either have no ammo cost or the same ammo cost they have for PvM. They'll use just as much ammo in either situation. Perhaps they'll use a little more in PvP, but they can easilly fortify against that by stocking up. We have no way to "stock up" nano. We have a set amount and when it runs out, it runs out.

    The solution is very simple. Lower the nano cost by the same factor the damage output is lowered. It doesn't unbalance anything. It just makes sure we don't have to stop and stand there. Heh.
    ........Truth...........
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  3. #3
    I've oftentimes had the exact same thought as Lost Logic. Our nanopool needs to be tons larger than it currently it is. I have half or less HP than any other breed, I should make up for that by having twice or more Nanopool. It makes no sense for us not to be able to kill one mob without running out of Nano. Please consider giving us an increase in Nanopool.


    Garnock


    Note: This is NOT for NT's only. This is for the Nanomage breed. It is a breed issue first and foremost. All nanomages have horrible HP, and only "slightly" better nanopool.

  4. #4

    Lightbulb The heart of the issue

    Originally posted by Garnock
    I've oftentimes had the exact same thought as Lost Logic. Our nanopool needs to be tons larger than it currently it is. I have half or less HP than any other breed, I should make up for that by having twice or more Nanopool. It makes no sense for us not to be able to kill one mob without running out of Nano. Please consider giving us an increase in Nanopool.


    Garnock


    Note: This is NOT for NT's only. This is for the Nanomage breed. It is a breed issue first and foremost. All nanomages have horrible HP, and only "slightly" better nanopool.
    Two things.

    One, not a breed or class issue. If your going to make a change, make it globally. As a solitus trader I totally tap out on nano per opponent in a heart beat. And i don't have anywhere near the damage output an NT has. I also use nano to fuel a bunch of peripheral effects I rely on in a fight..does the fact that i'm not trading nano for damage mean I should not have same opportunity to be competitive?

    Two, the core issue here is that the new patch was put in place to accomodate one basic problem in AO. That MOB's have 2x hp's for players that do 2x in damage, and mob's have x damages to affect players with x hp's.

    So, when PvP happens and we turn those 2x effects against x level damage absorption...Blip. Sayonara sweetie. You are now at -x hp's and we just succesfully removed you and your daddy from existence to accoutn for all the damage.

    The only way to truly fix this problem is to globally make MOB's and PC's identical in stats (averages, naturally, not maxes) at any givne level, then scale the MOB's damage output accodingly. Doing this would mean that all these fine tuning tweaks that everyone keeps arguing about on gimped this or nerfed that, would be unnecessary. The problem ceases to exist and real tweaking and comparison can be odne ratehr than compensating for a matehmatical equation that _can never be balanced_.

    I'm sorry the NT's are currently on wrong end of the bug stick. But rather that asking for what won't work, guys, consider teh above and see how it is really only way to fix the problem for _everybody_.

    Profit

  5. #5
    I agree with you. Soldiers took a very nasty hit in pvp also. I see progress by funcom (well an attempt at progress which is a good sign) but I just wish it would be better and faster.

  6. #6
    Originally posted by Stanbeast
    I agree with you. Soldiers took a very nasty hit in pvp also. I see progress by funcom (well an attempt at progress which is a good sign) but I just wish it would be better and faster.
    Soldiers are still rather good in pvp, if not the best.

    Fling for 500, burst for 500+, full auto for 500+, takes a lvl 100ish caster with amxed body dev,sta, and QL125 life implants down to about 500ish HP.

    Follow it up by a single regular hit for about 500, or a couple regular hits for 250 or so. Not unrealistic from a soldier over 100.

    And with TMS, you do 75% of 50% of your regular damage. Which adds up to ... roughly 12.5% of your regular damage. Considering soldiers have light green body dev and good evasion skills... Well, to quote someone talking about agents equipping QL200 rifles and casting TMS, 'and you were worried about tank mages??'

    That's not to say that a soldier is the perfect pvp char. But it's still the best one.
    Last edited by dfield; Nov 17th, 2001 at 12:39:32.

  7. #7

    Re: The heart of the issue

    Originally posted by Profit


    Two things.

    One, not a breed or class issue. If your going to make a change, make it globally. As a solitus trader I totally tap out on nano per opponent in a heart beat. And i don't have anywhere near the damage output an NT has. I also use nano to fuel a bunch of peripheral effects I rely on in a fight..does the fact that i'm not trading nano for damage mean I should not have same opportunity to be competitive?

    I'm sorry the NT's are currently on wrong end of the bug stick. But rather that asking for what won't work, guys, consider teh above and see how it is really only way to fix the problem for _everybody_.

    Profit
    Well, at least it is a breed issue. Why dont nano breed get just as much nano pool as atrox gets health. And why does atrox get almost same nano pool as nano breed gets health. I think that is uber lame. I never thought i would regret picking nano breed as race, what i should have picked is atrox. I am NT.

    No, i know you dont have same damage output as NT, but your nanos is about different things, you got very nice debuffs against NT, if you use it, you own us.

  8. #8
    Of course you run out of nanos right? Arent you using nanos clearly past your level by at least 30 or more? As a doctor I can drain mana just as fast with high ql heals, heals 'em for alot but the mana cast is large.

    I do agree that it should either be a little less considereing you need a higher ql spell to even do decent dmg. Or make stims mana more?

  9. #9
    Of course you run out of nanos right? Arent you using nanos clearly past your level by at least 30 or more? As a doctor I can drain mana just as fast with high ql heals, heals 'em for alot but the mana cast is large.
    Actually NT should almost always use their "best" nano because in general the higher the "QL" of nano the more efficient it is (on a damage per point of nano basis) in general. But unfortunatly its never that simple since many of the most efficient nanos are easy to resist or be more effected by armor than others. But of course in PvP we never get the chance to really do strategy because we usually get debuffed, rooted, and then promptly killed.
    -Entropy:
    The only game you cannot win...

  10. #10
    more nano is a good idea.
    as a level 47 NT ive noticed that the only way i can even kill greens anymore is to hit em several time with compressed shockwave (that damn level cap thing is really annoying). ive run into several mobs that after a few hits with shockwave, im outta nano ant they are healed up and ready to go some more. how many times am i gonna waste nano on countered calm attempts before i just plain run away. its rediculous. my implants are all good, though i did have to remove a nano pool one to put in an HP implant. not sure that was the right idea now, even though it was only 20 nano or so.


    and whats the deal with NTs being able to kill someone who cant even see em. dont people know to max their view distances??? or even map upgrades??? wtf is that bs

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