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Thread: RK2 Tarasque... (long)

  1. #161

    why tara is different than pvh...

    First let me start by saying that in funcom's eyes tara is no different than pvh, and so it is valid to use that as a rationalization for your actions. However, it does not make them right.

    What is the clannet convention? It is a social contract that we the players have made with each other to divy up the rare loot that we all want. When you ks pvh, you are not breaking a "social taboo" like you are when you steal tara. I am sorry you dont like this, but thats the way it is. It is the same reason you dont go in and solo at mort when a group is there. no real reason you cant, but its not socially accepted best practice imho. It ruins the evening for a lot of people and makes the game not fun for them, this is much less the case with other unique mobs.

    Sbje and Sky are friends of mine in game. After quitting shortly after release, Sky was one of the first people I met in AO when I returned and I know that for them this isnt about the loot. But I also know that with each steal or attempted steal of tara they are damaging thier reputaions with others on the server and that is a shame. I know they will reply with bah reputation with who? We dont care what Joe Noob thinks of us. But, imo Reputation > loot period! All would do well to remember that.

    Yes Clannet team can put together a team to beat team sky and did so sucessfully last night, (for the first time I believe =) (we finally figured out to get a damage team out of stun raduis and make a gimpy tank team =) and then rolled the item among the 30 ppl in the clannet bot. I was content, as a support class I walk away from tara happy as long as I know that for my efforts I had a chance at loot. I dont want to have to choose which damage team to heal at tara, I prefer to assist tara and heal all who need. Sometimes Im not needed, but a few times ive been the only doc there, and I like to think I was needed (unlike stupid bs missions where i heal once at the boss ). Damage teams suck for support classes period (see pox and other docs thoughts on this) and my biggest fear is that soon team clannet damage team will say err why do we roll among 60 if we win, but they roll among 6? if they do?) and then it will go further downhill.

    Let me speak a little about loot swapping and ninjas for a moment. First two points of fact:

    1. tara often has ****ty drops
    2. tara CAN drop two items

    Okay, now lets also suppose that in at least one case someone looted - saw 3 items - then heard the admin call out 2 and so they KNOW an item was ninjaed or swapped.

    Does this mean that it is a common occurance? No? Does this mean that every time 2 loots or ****ty loots drop, that person will "know" something stinks in denmark? Yes. Then they will tell two friends and they will tell two friends etc etc and soo the paranoia level is at epic porportions.

    My own personal feelings about this are that if someone is so loot hungry that they feel the need to cheat everyone on clannet, so be it, karma will eventually catch up with them, someone will expose them etc. and that will be that. I would rather have a cooperative clannet system, knowing that on RARE occasions someone will be desperate enough to try to cheat the system, than have tara run like pvh wheren 9 times out of 10 you waste all that time not even getting a roll. Just my personal choice.

    Consider it another way - lets say eventually we settle into 6 good damage teams each rolling among themselves and some in thier guild supporting them, docs, etc. Assuming all dmg teams know thier **** I could figure on getting a 1 in 10 roll every 6 taras. I would prefer a 1-60 roll every single tara. because as I said, I walk away from tara happy if my efforts at least earned me a shot at an item. The times when my group doesnt get the kill i just walk away feeling like I wasted my time, which is why I only just last week learned where daria spawns, and would never go back.


    I dont mind 60 ppl rolls, I dont mind that someone gets lucky, I know that I get to roll more than most of those people so given enough taras, i will get more loot than them, simple as that. A lot of the "meetings" lately are simply efforts to reduce the number of people in the roll because many feel they "deserve" the loot more than the next guy. I disagree, I say what we all "deserve" is a fair chance nothing more, nothing less.

    On a final note, I keep seeing Sbje and crew comment that they want to be in on the point system when it comes out - i would ask them to abandon trying to take the loot from the rest of us in the interim so that we dont have this baggage hurting the point system before it even begins.

    I would also ask that when point system rules are discussed and voted on, that votes are based on point totals, thus Joe Tara vetran extrodianairre gets 120 votes and Joe I just made a newbie guild gets 0.

    I think thats all, and I had a long hard day at work so Im not going to proofread this post. If any of you feel so inclined, knock yourself out =)

  2. #162
    Originally posted by Tyndareus
    it can't be soloed by one person, or even one team, as many uniques can. This means that loot must be decided among more than one team.
    Wrong. 1 team can definitely solo it, it will take about 1hr or so but it's definitely possible, been done a million times before.
    Yagyu for life

  3. #163
    Sard yes you did beat me for the first time but i will say i slacked off that raid. Seeings how the next one we got 2/3 of the Dragons XP. Anyways when you did win loot what did we do? We said congratulations see ya next time. Not in a sarcastic tone but in more of a competitive tone. Trying to make a team to outdaamge everyone is FUN, only fun thing left at Tara imo. Like you said" To us its not about the loot", there are many reasons why we are doing what we are doing and I have expressed those to anyone that has asked. I personally dont like posting this stuff on the forums that is why u havent been seeing me here but I had to stop in Anyways no matter what your feelings are towards me I know who my true friends are and It's up to me to deal with them not anyone else. This post isnt directed at you Sard only quoted for the first line mainly so dont take it wrong. Send me a tell if you want to talk about it but this is prolly my last forum post you will see.

    Enjoy
    Skystryke -- 200 Trader RK2 Armor Setup(Updated)

    Skytrox -- 200 Soldier RK2



    " You Spawn em, We'll Camp em!"

  4. #164
    Interesting. I was not aware that it could be soloed by one team.

  5. #165
    One team can solo the dragon, but one team can't succeed alone, because of the 25% zone, their succes totally depends on other clanners showing up or not, therefor I think it makes sense you share with those who allow you to kill Tarasque.

    I agree that the previous system had many flaws, people showing up the first time getting the best loot, same people winning 2 rolls in one day, while others don't win anything in 2 months, ninja looting, ...

    Although I agree with these points Sbje maked, I totally disagree with the way they tried to solve the problem. Things only got worse now, or at least we will see the next week.

  6. #166
    Two comments :

    1°_ The crowd gathered around Tara makes it trivial now. You have to realize that it's bound to be nerfed.

    2°_ 14.6 will let everyone know what has been looted from the corpse.
    "Donner à des millions une connaissance de l'anglais, c'est les rendre esclaves". (Hind Swarâj, ch. 18)

  7. #167

    Been there, done that.

    Originally posted by Tyndareus
    Interesting. I was not aware that it could be soloed by one team.
    I remember when Tindstar and Drdank soloed T .


    Oh, btw Sbje. I find it wery amusing how you can stand here and say your kill team were much diffrent from Quizotic kill teams. It was still a kill team, right?. Quiz had a kill team, but we never kept lewt for ourself (only when it was agreed between AC and Quiz, who where the only guilds at T for the time beeing.

    Well, it seems like history repets itself, and the people bashing us from Quiz, put themself in the same situation. Why hassle about it?, what some of you guys should do is to leave your respective guilds form a new rouge one.

    And wtf is this, OMNI turning clan for Tara lewt, hell i would ban theese people from Tara kills for atleast 2 months. ****e, if the omni weaklings would ever take T back do you think for one second that theese turncoats will stay?. Pffft.

    I miss the game, i admit it.

    /thoriak

  8. #168

    Re: Been there, done that.

    Originally posted by THOR


    I remember when Tindstar and Drdank soloed T .


    Oh, btw Sbje. I find it wery amusing how you can stand here and say your kill team were much diffrent from Quizotic kill teams. It was still a kill team, right?. Quiz had a kill team, but we never kept lewt for ourself (only when it was agreed between AC and Quiz, who where the only guilds at T for the time beeing.

    Well, it seems like history repets itself, and the people bashing us from Quiz, put themself in the same situation. Why hassle about it?, what some of you guys should do is to leave your respective guilds form a new rouge one.

    And wtf is this, OMNI turning clan for Tara lewt, hell i would ban theese people from Tara kills for atleast 2 months. ****e, if the omni weaklings would ever take T back do you think for one second that theese turncoats will stay?. Pffft.

    I miss the game, i admit it.

    /thoriak
    I'm not a weakling
    James J. Hill: "Give me Swedes, snuff and whiskey, and I'll build a railroad right through hell!"

  9. #169
    I just want everyone to know that you can have your beloved Dragon. This dungeon is turning everyone against themselves and their friends. I for one am not gonna lose a friend over it. I thank all of my friends for their support with my decisions, as I knew from the start who my true friends were and that they would stand by me 100% even if they didnt like how i went about things they would still be there for me. I have seen many ppl break friendships over this dragon and not just mine. I dont ever like to see people get so damn envyous that it turns to greed and thats what is happeneing. I am not the only one who took these actions and without my presence im sure it wont change things but I for one wont be a part of breaking friendships for anyone. Have fun with your raids, Maybe some Omni will come and make this dungeon what it was meant to be, a Clan/Omni Battleground. For isnt that what we are all fighting over, our beloved Flag( i.e. Dragon).

    Marlark, I do appreciate all the hard work you have put into clannet. You have done more for clans then anyone could ever begin to ask without hesitation or reward. I know you worked hard on it and hope you will continue to work on it despite the mockery that everyone is making of it. The points system looks very good as I have always said it does . I do see some problems that will occur with it but every plan has its problems and there is no 1 way to please everyone. I hope that everyone reads this post and realizes what they are doing. I say this to both sides of the conflict because none of you are any better then the next. With every system there will be complications, maybe a proper meeting will be setup someday and a better looting solution will bve implemented before 14.6 but its gonna be hard. But more then 30 ppl are gonna have to vote for things like this, guild leaders that dont go to tara etc arent gonna cut it. Maybe you can make some kind of vote option in clannet and for a week or so everyone at tara get to vote on ppl they want to be trusted looting or what not. At least that way you will be including more of the people that deserve to have asay in these matters.

    Well I guess i better be off. Hope everyone(all sides of the conflict) come to their senses soon but I for one wont be back for awhile.

    Go ahead and flame all you want because I know who my true friends are and thats who truly matter to me at the end of the day.

    - Skystryke
    Skystryke -- 200 Trader RK2 Armor Setup(Updated)

    Skytrox -- 200 Soldier RK2



    " You Spawn em, We'll Camp em!"

  10. #170
    Originally posted by Sbje


    Firstly lol, your just sour because you was probably one of the chosen hunt leaders, or was benefiting from a corrupt and non working system as it was.
    Lol.. you really think that I am a huntleader or would take the job, may I say I only have a 2hb staff from Tara, wich I got in januari this year

    Originally posted by Sbje


    O btw, we even invited a doc to join a chat I made, and to heal us, and still get in loot, we did the same the first night too, we had 7 people and included them all, so I don't see your point? if we have people helping us we trust, they'll be in.
    Those ppl not in the damage team can shake it for no-drop items. Cause all will try to ninja like hell, cause damage teams are allowed as well. Why play fair if 1 team gets the kill each time ?
    Johndoo, can I have essence pls ?

  11. #171

    Re: Been there, done that.

    Originally posted by THOR


    I miss the game, i admit it.

    /thoriak
    come back then mate

    Lordb
    Lordbedwyr 213 SOL RK2
    Ghandalf 201 DOC RK2
    Bittersweeet 182 NT RK2
    Fantazmia RK1

  12. #172

    Thumbs up

    In the following ill TRY to be objective. I am president of same guild as Sbje and Sky so u all know.

    I think what happened is this:

    1. All agrees current system is frustrating.

    2. All want it changed.

    3. All can not be satisfied whatever solution is reached.

    4. Marlark and a few leaders (and yes im chipping in) are making a 'clannet' bot to handle Tara chat, and possibly loot by point system.

    5. Meanwhile Sky Sbje and im sure a few others get frustrated with CURRENT system, and decide to make a dmg team to kill tara.

    6. They do so, and dont join current system, but clearly tells their intentions before they kill tara. That means there is no sneaking around here, its in the open.

    7. The ppl participating in the current system dont get their act together outdamaging sky and sbjes team until 3rd time or sumit.

    8. Some ppl call what sky and the others did 'ninjaing'.

    9. A flame war breaks out.

    10. some ppl cancel accounts over this. :-(


    I may have missed something in this ultra condensed chain of events. Please forgive me. Reading this entire thread is a major undertaking. I have been offline for 2 weeks on a big work project, back now tho.

    Heres my 2 bits worth:

    First i dont think what sky and sbje did was 'ninjaing'.
    They stated their intentions BEFORE the incident, and the other group could just as easy have organized a dmg team of their own....60 ppl vs 6 have an advantage, and the others got their **** together after a while.
    IMHO ninjas are part of your own team or group and then by LYING and STEALTH are STEALING the loot. If you are NOT part of the group, then you are not ninjaing, you are COMPETING, something we do in this game every day.

    Secondly what they did was as a protest against the current system that unduly favours lower lvl ppl, as they get the same chance of winning loot as highlvl ppl who have been there MANY times.

    Third, they have also said that they like and support the point system.

    I cannot see that Sbje/sky/others have behaved dishonourably. Yes they chose NOT to join the clannet as it currently is, but they TOLD everyone that. No lying, no stealth.

    As i see it you have 2 different ways of obtaining Tara loot. Each one as good as the other.
    Imho the rules for the upcoming clannet have to be amended by this change:

    If you chose to NOT participate in the clannet, but go by way of your own dmg team, you forfeit all your existing clannet points, so the next time in clannet you will earn 1 point and have 1 roll.

    This will keep the clannet on their toes, they('WE' actually as i am a strong supporter of clannet), and they have to be a good dmg dealer versus Tara.

    It will be 'Legal' to put together your own dmg team... but it will cost u clannet points. And face it, its HARD getting dmg teams to hold together for any period of time.

    And guys.... Please keep the tempers cool. None of this is worth cancelling over.

    Regards from Fixader

    Please dont forget to have fun.......

  13. #173
    Originally posted by Fixader
    10. some ppl cancel accounts over this. :-(


    Dumbasses?...... yeah..uhm..pretty much sums it, Dumbasses.
    James J. Hill: "Give me Swedes, snuff and whiskey, and I'll build a railroad right through hell!"

  14. #174
    So why all people flamed quizotic in the past with their damage team ??? Now it is sbje and some arcanes doing it and it is fine ?
    Fixader you say it's ok cause they TOLD everyone that, but quiz did the same before.

    So i think quizotic wat they do are bad guys (it is sad)
    And arcane what they do are nice guy (it is more sad)

    Quizotic make OD team to keep loot, and finally sbje and his friend did the same, to get loot or to share it with really close friends (like quiz before).

    So i hope only one thing, i hope people who flammed and cursed quizotic are not Sbje or his teammates cause in this case i have only one thing to say :

    SHAME ON YOU


    Another thing amazing is the way sbje did it.
    Sbje you say it was to control loot and prevent ninja looting, it's fine for me you can OD all people and share loot after, but finally when you saw the loot i think the greed was to strong for you


    Lachaude
    Labrutte
    Labonne

  15. #175
    Well if this is the way quiz did it before then i apologize,
    IF i have ever spoken negatively about the way they did it....

    IMHO you should be allowed to be the best there is in ANYTHING in the game.

    And a LARGE group SHOULD have advantage, simply because they have more ppl and should be able to make a better dmg team.

    But there are 2 things different from back then.

    1. Way fewer ppl were available to make dmg teams.... ALL dmg teams more or less had to include quiz. NO clan is that powerful these days.

    2. the rules back then sucked just as bad as current rules. there are hopes that clannet will bring structure.


    I dont mean to deride quiz. the following has NOTHING to do with any player at any time, just general observations.

    What i think is the most important is: DONT LIE AND STEAL!
    Telling ppl ure something ure NOT is lying.
    So saying u wanna join the tara chat, then looting and keeping loot in is unfair.
    making dmg team and looting is NOT in my opinion.
    tara chat ppl should be able to outdamage any unconnected group.

    regards from fixader

  16. #176
    So why all people flamed quizotic in the past with their damage team ??? Now it is sbje and some arcanes doing it and it is fine ?
    Fixader you say it's ok cause they TOLD everyone that, but quiz did the same before.

    So i think quizotic wat they do are bad guys (it is sad)
    And arcane what they do are nice guy (it is more sad)

    Quizotic make OD team to keep loot, and finally sbje and his friend did the same, to get loot or to share it with really close friends (like quiz before).

    So i hope only one thing, i hope people who flammed and cursed quizotic are not Sbje or his teammates cause in this case i have only one thing to say :

    SHAME ON YOU


    Another thing amazing is the way sbje did it.
    Sbje you say it was to control loot and prevent ninja looting, it's fine for me you can OD all people and share loot after, but finally when you saw the loot i think the greed was to strong for you

    1) you wasn't even there when Quiz and AC used to fight for the dragon! neither was I till near the end.

    2) IT WAS DIFFERENT! there WAS OMNI!, they NEEDED the support. Comprendez? Now a team of 6 can walk in and kill the dragon without any hassle, I've done it plenty of times in 2nd d and noone ever noticed was in there

    3) Greed at the loot? both times it was a **** loot, I only rolled for 1 item out of the 5, and didn't even get that and FYI it was a Wing.. (wow..)

    4) This isn't AC, hell i'll leave if needbe, but would rather stay with my friends who despite not agreeing with my actions, agree with my reasons.

    5) Make your soddin mind up every post you make your changing it, and now your inviting omnis to come. Rofl, you just better watch yourself.
    Sbje RK2 Soldier
    Sbee RK2 MA

  17. #177

    Cool huh.

    Originally posted by Sbje

    5) . Rofl, you just better watch yourself.

    -"I am wanted dead in 12 systems"
    -"I´ll be careful"
    -"You will be dead!!!"
    -"This little one isn´t worth fighting over, come let me get you something"
    -"Aaaarrgh"
    "No blasters! No blasters!!"
    (Lightsabre comes up)
    Whack Whack!



    Ooooops sorry, got carried away....
    /thoriak

  18. #178
    Originally posted by Sbje

    We want omnis to show don't we?
    Some of most fun i've had in this game is fighting omnis when it isn't too laggy over tarasque, then feeling happy that clans got it afterall.. but when it comes down to a mindless roll, sorta takes the excitement away....
    Originally posted by Sbje

    5) Make your soddin mind up every post you make your changing it, and now your inviting omnis to come. Rofl, you just better watch yourself.
    Talk about contradictions ? I rest my case :D
    Johndoo, can I have essence pls ?

  19. #179
    /me marches around with a Sign........ DOWN WIT TARA!!!

    she has to go she makes me feel all icky inside...... just give everyone on rk2 a coat hood and dropable EOT and we will be happy and never go to tara again

  20. #180
    Originally posted by POX
    /me marches around with a Sign........ DOWN WIT TARA!!!

    she has to go she makes me feel all icky inside...... just give everyone on rk2 a coat hood and dropable EOT and we will be happy and never go to tara again
    Noooo I need 2 body armors, 2 GoC, and a globe of suff. Gimme dat an' I'll never show up to tara except to fight omni
    Yagyu for life

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