RK2 Tarasque... (long)

[Ghandalf]

Not sure if I'm the right person to say all this, but I still will, since I think its needed.

I will try to remain as neutral as possible, and not color it to much with my own views on the issue, sorry if I do not succeed.

Tarasque is still, as it has been since 18h spawn nerf a big issue.
Clan are currently controlling it, and it has over the last months been attempted to make a fair way of running the raids.

The "fair" system that has been used the last months is that someone has been running chat, (usually JasonX, Jdude or Armaklaesy), that all coming to Camelot over lvl 125, 140 or 150 (depending on who has been running chat) has been invited to.
This has usually lead to about 35-60 people beeing in each roll.
There has been a lot of disagreement on what lvl people should be to join in. These are the main views on this:

LVL 125:

People who want this to be the level required to join a raid, think so because:
At 125 you can use most of the loot drop'ed by tara, and they should be able to roll for them.

Those who disagree to this usually do so because:
A lvl 125 is not as usefull in killing tara as a higher level char is. They are not capable of doing high enough damage, or healing enough to make a big difference to the outcome of the raid.

Comment: What this argument basicly is about, is if a lvl 125 deserves to be able to roll or not, if the assistance they bring has enough value to justify them rolling with the same odds of winning as for example a lvl 200 character who is capable of doing far more damage or healing and have been playing for much longer.

Note:
As things currently are it does not really matter what lvl or profession you are. All you really have to do is to show up at tarasque. tab when it spawns and press "q" and it will be dead within a few minuts. No-one is vital or essential in executing the task or challenge of killing it, and no effort is needed of anyone to join in on a roll, no-one contributes something better that is vital to the outcome.

The issue I really need to take up:

I'm often at tara. not everytime but quite often. I'm not gonna share my views on what lvl I believe people should be to join in roll, and all the other rules and views on this and that.
What does however trouble me, and annoying me, and making me rather upset is this:

We have now set up rules, we have found a way to do the tara raids, that everyone is given a "fair" chance to get their piece, and by participating in the way things are currently done, you show you agree on this, and will play by these rules.

The annoying part is using 1 to 3 hours in the lagged out place called camelot. buffing people, killing omni, chating, waiting for spawn to get that 1-2% chance of winning one of the items you might or might not need. And then get only half the loot, or items that wasn't even in the loot pasted on the [clannet] channel.
I mean.. its wasting my and others time.

I know for a fact that items have been taken and not posted in chat several times. (4 times I know for a FACT, and I believe it is far far more).

And we are not talking about some bloody ninja here. We are not talking about omnis coming in killing us and taking loot, we are talking about the damage teams that are with us. The people on our side. The people we trust. The people we are working together with.

That is whats making me upset, that the people you are working with screw you over. The people on your side is stabbing your back. And why? To gain a "item" in a game.
What is the point of having something nice if you have to lie, steal and screw the people you are alligned with to get it?

It might be me who are the noob and stupid one here tho. I probably misunderstood this all. I honestly thought the reason we had damage teams, and the reason we used /team loot leader, was to avoid loot from disapearing.

Lordb

[________________Sbje]

No omnis show, no competition, its just a glorified PVH with better loot, make it most damage wins..
At least then people WORK for the stuff they gain by doing the most damage imo.
Way it is now is a joke, got turncoat omnis coming clan just for a free roll, low levels winning stuff over people who've been going an awful lot, then selling it for stupid prices, it shouldn't be a lottery, and thats what it is atm.
Also got people ninja'ing.. *cough* eot last night....
I personally don't trust anyone who loots tara now, as the loot seems to be slowly getting worse and less.. its a joke.

[labrutte]

Damn i'm not the only one who see that the loot is getting worse since some weeks. Each time a friend or a player i trust loot T there is 3 items (happens 6 times in 3 weeks) and each time it is another one i don't trust there is only 2 items and it is always the few same looter (not 2 item each time but the most) and it is ALWAYS sleeve boots or circlet and adv ****....

When i see a 200 enf staying far from T to not be aggro and coming just before the death to loot.... and crappy loot i wish to see in his screen.

But in fact i think T is fun when you forget all this loot problem so i keep coming to kill T, winning a crappy loot sometimes


Trust no one


Lachaude doc 154

[______________Yazule]

Originally posted by Sbje
No omnis show, no competition, its just a glorified PVH with better loot, make it most damage wins..
At least then people WORK for the stuff they gain by doing the most damage imo.
Way it is now is a joke, got turncoat omnis coming clan just for a free roll, low levels winning stuff over people who've been going an awful lot, then selling it for stupid prices, it shouldn't be a lottery, and thats what it is atm.
Also got people ninja'ing.. *cough* eot last night....
I personally don't trust anyone who loots tara now, as the loot seems to be slowly getting worse and less.. its a joke.

so if I go to tara at level141 (I dont go becuase of all the BS basically ... and lag) I should not get a shot at items because I am not a 'regular'?

Not trying to flame, just trying to get a feel for things

If I have to go to 20-30 T kills just to get a chance then it really aint worth it to me, I would only go if I had a fair chance at:

1) hood
2) EoT
3) dragon parts/armor stuff

and what is up with the EoT ninja you speak of, details please.

[________________Sbje]

I left before all came out last night, after had my fun fighting with some omnis who actually showed, shame they went wrong dungeon... so someone else can explain the EoT..

Personally I think people who turn up more and win nothing, should have a better chance of finally winning something in the future, don't see how its fair that a 121 fixer can win a dchest on his first raid (sorry for the example.. but its how i feel), and a 200 enf whos turned up.. 50-100 times can win nothing but a signet ring..


edit also shouldnt be automatically rolled for every item, that jsut causes loot hogging, which is rather gay too

[labrutte]

Now the rules for clan raid are lvl 140 min so as a 141 you can come yazule and be in the roll.

Sbje i feel like you, we choose to make a point system but finally it never come and the roll system is still here, so yes someone can come in his first raid and win what you wait (and me too) for so long.

I don't think that T must be for only a few players but i think that the players who came for several T must have more chance that the one who come on his first T


Lachaude

[________________Sbje]

Wel from now on im really tempted to do my own damage team for the following reasons...
1) as it stands, 50% of the people looting are taking items, or holding them for friends, i.e. eot last night, and instances like Lord has described above
2) Also Omega remain in the roll, and it hasn't been discussed with what happened with the eot incident properly
3) Turncoat omnis are getting into the roll easy, and have came clan just for loot, rather than encouraging omnis to PVP and come and get it
4) Alot of people there just treat it as a lottery, turn up afk in chat or so
5)I've seen instances of people going afk before tara spawns, and then coming back without shooting 1 shot and still being in roll
6) A roll system with so many people is a joke, theres no competition, its as good as a PVH/Nugget/Daria spawn, which should be most dmg wins
7) At least all the people in the team have worked for it, and contribute enough to be there, so whoever wins deserves it in many ways
8) The current rules ain't withheld, with them changing constantly, despite people coming late, being under level limit, and so on..
9) Good example last night, after the first tara spawned, and people realised the 2nd actually had some omnis in, over half of them F'ked off, just because it would mean they would have to PVP a little, and came back when Omnis were gone and Tara was about to spawn.

Sort these out and discuss them with the people WHO GO!, not a bunch of clan leaders of a level 50 and below org.

Now this might be "Quiz like" as before, but that was when firstly, there was ALOT less people, less than 20 people, also omnis showed up all the time, and EVERYONE was needed. If omnis show up again (which is unlikely since half of them are now clan..) sure I have no problem, as long as people work for it, you should HAVE to PVP for loot imo, since the reason its 25% zone.

[___________Skystryke]

As sad as this may seem to some of you Sbje has the most valid points since this whole Tara loot debacle has started. Noone wants to step up against the majority to speak their point of view but like with everything else once someone has spoken up, as Sbje has, the opinions will start coming and you will see that more and more people would like to see it this way. This is the only solution I see working to make Tara raids more fun like the game is supposed to be, not a luck of the draw sort of deal.

- Skystryke

[____________Fixerguy]

I hate to say it but your right, this has been **** lately. I've talked to omega and they kicked the people from the guild that were involved in the "eot incident". ITs gotten to organized lately, dmg teams might be the best way to go, but atm, the guild that first starts this will get blacklisted by alot of others. happened to quiz, I was there first hand. We do dmg teams you will get flamed by alot of people, but you "might" end up controlling tara, dmg teams are the perfect time for omni to show up, because were seperated, but at least dmg teams had some excitment. atm this is just same old, same old....

[________________Sbje]

We want omnis to show don't we?
Some of most fun i've had in this game is fighting omnis when it isn't too laggy over tarasque, then feeling happy that clans got it afterall.. but when it comes down to a mindless roll, sorta takes the excitement away....

Remember times when people only used roll for items they needed heh, now every1 is automatically entered for everything, shame..

[____________Fixerguy]

heh, the only time people EVER rolled for stuff they only needed was in the good old quiz days....you start to miss that....

[______________Yazule]

I agree that it is good sbje is saying stuff, I am not the only one to go against the grain

go get em tiger!

[______________Sredni]

Maby a fair way of divvy'ing up tara loot would be to only have rolls if there's actual omni opposition. If no omni's show up then may the best damage team win .

heh, I dunno. I've only been to one tara raid, and we had massive omni opposition. I swear it went on for over 4 hours before the omni's gave up. In a fight like that everyone there is needed, lvl 125 or 140, and they should all be in the roll. If there's no omni opposisition then really.. is that lvl 125 contributing anything? Could a lvl 125ish team take down tara? I don't think so .

But we've all gotta remember that sooner or later the omni's will be back in force, and when that happens we have to set aside the loot scrabbling to fight back effectively.

[________JustLaughing]

Well put my Lord & Sbje i could not have put it any better myself tara raids are a joke i i do feel that the best damage team should win . cause the way its going now is a joke . But of course i have never won a lotto so i might be a little disgruntaled .

[__________Knightofni]

I have to agree with Sbje in that the way things are organized now, all you basically have to do is meet the lvl criteria (sometimes not even that) and you have as much chance at winning loot as anyone else. Doesn't matter if you attack/heal or not. I also agree that this system makes that whole PvP aspect of Camelot disappear. I would rather see Omni controlling tara and clans putting up a good fight each time than having 50+ clanners rolling for the items that may or may not be posted. Not to mention having the Omni side further weakened because of people turning clan for loot. What good it all your uber items when you're standing in 2ho, buffing for hours on end and not see a single omni to fight? I have probably been naive by not worrying about all the items that drops being posted. Since this obviously isnt the case, this is another serious problem with the current system.

I also agree that there is a problem with someone going for the first time having the same chance at winning an item that someone who's been after that item for many raids. That's just my opinion and i know others will disagree. But the only reason a lvl 125 can even be in the raffle for these items is because of this system working 'too well' against omni competition. A lvl 125 can neither tank tara, heal the ones that do tank sufficiently, or survive against high lvl omnis that come to compete. Tara is meant for high lvls, i think thats evident.

The way i see to improve this situation is to let everyone make damage teams, and make the winning team decide the rules on how to distribute the loot. If they want to keep it all to themselves, then ok. If they want to raffle it, let them make the rules on who gets into the raffle. And best of all, if this means less clanners show up at raids, for whatever reason, there might actually be fighting between omni and clan again, which imo is the most exciting thing about the whole dungeon.

I honestly don't care much about the loot, but I don't have a problem understanding those that do. In 14.6 everyone will see who loots what, so any ninja will be exposed. But I still think we should think about other things than just the loot, and make tara an exciting event where clan and omni meet to duke it out for rights to the dragon. And that just won't happen with the current system.

[Yakuza]

Originally posted by labrutte
Damn i'm not the only one who see that the loot is getting worse since some weeks. Each time a friend or a player i trust loot T there is 3 items (happens 6 times in 3 weeks) and each time it is another one i don't trust there is only 2 items and it is always the few same looter (not 2 item each time but the most) and it is ALWAYS sleeve boots or circlet and adv ****....

When i see a 200 enf staying far from T to not be aggro and coming just before the death to loot.... and crappy loot i wish to see in his screen.

But in fact i think T is fun when you forget all this loot problem so i keep coming to kill T, winning a crappy loot sometimes


Trust no one


Lachaude doc 154

Lachaude it was someone in your own org that stole the EoT, and possibly other things I've been told...so I don't know who you mean when you say 'your friends' but...kinda ironic isn't it?

[Val]

This current system sux!! watching a lvl 121 or 135 walk away with a dragon coat or chest that a friend has been going there to get constantly for months is a pisser VERY WRONG especially since that 121 or 135 had ABSOLUTELY NO USE in the raid. either go with the current system with a lvl limit of 160-170+ or go damage teams this is rediculous letting some little useless n00b get loot over a 180-200 regular for the last 6 months.

[Anonymous]

Ah, dmg teams.

Well, either way I lose. The current system hasn't rewarded me for the last 100+ items, and a dmg team system wouldn't favor me either because getting enough ppl from my guild together to compete is difficult.

So what happens to the rest of us who are not in uber guilds, who are nonetheless high lvl players who come to tara often and are deserving as well? Well, quite simply, we farm money in order to buy the items that we might need for outrageous prices, and that's IF the uber guilds decide to sell. You'll notice that those who speak up for the dmg team system are those who know they can win.

I don't like the current system, but I also don't like the idea of not ever getting any loot because I don't feel like joining an uber guild.

I don't know what the solution is since the points sytem never materialized. But I know that dmg teams are only a good idea to those who can win the loot. If it goes that way then fine, I have no say in these matters. But frankly I don't like the idea.

[____________Intrepid]

Originally posted by Sbje
No omnis show, no competition, its just a glorified PVH with better loot, make it most damage wins..

what happened when quiz did that?

[______________Coc^-^]

So what have i missed?