Reaction to recent Gaute Post

[___________Stercoral]

Very nice article, wow !

Just something: I eagerly wait for the "pvp flag" to be also implemented for guard killers !

[cooler150]

Nice article and I am looking forward to the Notum Wars it will add a whole new dimension to the game.

On reading the posts in this section I would like to make a few points myself. One issue that comes up again and again is that small mid-sized orgs will be at a disadvantage. Well if an org feels at a disadvantage make an alliance with another org and another. Maybe this is something FC should think about adding, so that if your tower is attacked all members and alliance members will be notified and they can all defend the towers. This in turn will add a new depth to the game play as before you attack a tower you would have to check who they are allied with as you would be going to war with them as well.

"FunCom, regardless of what they have stated in their previous releases, does not intend people to be able to achieve the maximum benefit of playing this game on your own."

Don't understand this statement why would you not be able to achieve maximum benefit of playing this game on your own. If you are a solo player you would not attack a tower anyway this pack as far as I can see does in no way affect single play.

"However, if the advantages are permanent it will in effect gimp everyone who does not own the booster if they do not get the benefits in exactly the same way as the people who actually bought the booster."

Again how is everyone else gimped if they don't own the booster pack sounds to me the only argument here is 'well there getting this from the pack so I want it, but I want it for nothing'

This is an RPG that means we have to do a little thinking for ourselves and not expect FC to give us all the answers we have to take our characters and the game for what it is. A lot of people seem to have this attitude that 'well there prof can do this why cant mine' 'they can beat me easily in PvP not fair', 'FC should do this for my prof they did it for theres'. Take your character learn his/her strengths and weaknesses and play them accordingly, if you are only interested in PvP then pick a prof that can handle it.

Personally I have had many hours of enjoyment from my time in AO and I am sure I will have many more. Yes there are bugs in the game and yes we need to give FC feedback on issues but to grip and moan because someone can do something or is getting something your not is pointless and if the game causes you so much grief don't play it.

I would just like to take the time here to thank FC for the fun I have with AO.

I know I will get flamed for the comments in this post but hey that's the way I feel and make no apologies for it.

Tseek

[secondkenlon]

Also: Add PvP+ flags to guard killers.

Kill a guard, be open to same side as guard attacks for 4 /played hours. Also makes guards shoot on sight.

[______________Lirona]

Teesk:

FC has ALSO repeatedly said that the Booster Pack will not hinder those people who choose not to buy it in any way. If a large organization chooses to not buy the pack, they will be at a disadvantage against one that does. Similiarly, individual players who buy the Booster will tend to be better than those who, for whatever reason, can't or don't. This is irrespective of solo or large guild players. Yes, large guilds get bigger advantages, but that's a separate issue.

It sounds like FC went back on promises of not gimping non-Booster players however you look at it. There is no way, if things are as the article describes, that a normal player will have any way to fight against or compete with those who decide to shell out the twenty dollars.

[____________Dominata]

Originally posted by Tseekchoi


"However, if the advantages are permanent it will in effect gimp everyone who does not own the booster if they do not get the benefits in exactly the same way as the people who actually bought the booster."

Again how is everyone else gimped if they don't own the booster pack sounds to me the only argument here is 'well there getting this from the pack so I want it, but I want it for nothing'

If you do not see this by yourself, let me clarify. In Shadowlands we will be allowed to diversify our skills, supposedly. This will, however, be available to all players, not just the ones who owns the expansion.
If the owners of the booster is allowed to raise their caps and go beyond what non-owners will ever be able to, you do indeed "gimp" them since they will be forever left behind ability wise. Expansions should add content like items, land and even new races which shouldn't be available for people who does not wish to buy it. But an expansion should never be allowed to change the basics of a game, like ability caps without letting everyone take part of it, anything else would be too unbalancing.

Now, I do not know if this is the case here or not since it wasn't very clear in the article, that is why I asked.
As far as I know, no MMORPG has allowed an expansion to change such basics without letting the whole playerbase take part of it, so I sincerely hope this is not the case here. If it is, FC is more or less twisting our arms here and that is very wrong.

As for alliances... It is a nice thought, but the problem is that only one faction can own the tower and the benefits will only affect the faction who owns the tower. I salute the org leaders who will make such an alliance work when the time comes to decide which faction should be allowed to build a tower. If AO had a fully working faction system in place alliances could have had a place in the game. As it is, alliances are pointless since in the end onlt one faction will get to own the new tower.

This is not a flame, this is an argument.

[Jynne]

I think however that while only people who own the booster can build towers, organization members who do not own the booster will still benefit from the organizational bonuses.

The people who will be at a disadvantage will be people who are not in an organization and who do not own the booster.

Note that this is just my estimate from past statements by FC and my reading of the Gaute article.

[Xaielao]

I think the land level thing and how you cant have towers over that lvl is an excellent idea. A large, high level guild isn't going to go to say Athen Shire, a low level zone, and place one of there valued towers there where they can only reap small benefits from it when they could build a QL200 one in say PW. This leaves the smaller lower-level clans to build towers there, so this will be viable for lower level players because of PF level.

I think that is ingenious! I personaly cant wait. CHEARS FOR FUNCOM! (Oh and next time, let me beta test something, I've only been playing on test since it opened, ;p)

BTW I saw a screenshot of one of the towers the other day, incase you guys who don't play on test knew this, the new HP bar vary in size depending upon the HP value of the target. A lvl1 newb has a short bar with 2 bubbles in it, Tarrasque has some 25 bubles of health, extends almost to the middle of the screen. I saw a tower with 24 bubbles, so yea, I can see now that QL300 towers will have 3m or so hp (tarasque has what 3.6m?).

[Treonaut]

Originally posted by Fion
I think the land level thing and how you cant have towers over that lvl is an excellent idea. A large, high level guild isn't going to go to say Athen Shire, a low level zone, and place one of there valued towers there where they can only reap small benefits from it when they could build a QL200 one in say PW. This leaves the smaller lower-level clans to build towers there, so this will be viable for lower level players because of PF level.

I think that is ingenious! I personaly cant wait. CHEARS FOR FUNCOM! (Oh and next time, let me beta test something, I've only been playing on test since it opened, ;p)

But, quild Storm has a 'baby' guild Tempest. Who says they won't run around and destroy everybody's fun by killing normal guild's towers like they did with special mob and Tarasque? The mother guild has billions of dollars and all items to supply the baby guild.

The benefits need to be diluted by the number of members in a guild and also the number of members in a guild needs to be considered when allowing an attack. A guild with 500 members at level 50 will ruin the game for a quild who has 20 members from 40 to 60. Game over. Don't buy booster if you are small or medium guild.

[Aerinyi]

As far as I know, no MMORPG has allowed an expansion to change such basics without letting the whole playerbase take part of it, so I sincerely hope this is not the case here. If it is, FC is more or less twisting our arms here and that is very wrong.

Ruins of Kunark raised Everquest's level limit to 60. If a player did not buy RoK, he/she could not exceed the level 50 mark. Given the uber-friendly nature of Everquest, and the fact that going from 50-60 was projected as taking about the same amount of played time as going from 1-50, I'd call that changing the basics.

I agree somewhat with the concerns about small and medium guilds being overrun by the big guilds, but it's important to bear in mind that there _should_ be advantages for large and powerful guilds. They make a lot of sacrifices and play hard to reach a higher power level, and it's really not fair to leave them completely unrewarded. I'd like to see some kind of compromise system that allows larger guilds to maintain the advantage that is the point of being in such a guild, while not making smaller guilds into sitting ducks.

[Treonaut]

Let the big guilds only be able to fight the big guilds and the fun guilds only able to fight the other fun guilds. Then power fights power and fun fights fun.

I just don't want my friends to have to be attacked by a power guild and so we just give up on the booster. I want our brother and sister guilds who are like us to come and fight us and have fun. Then we don't give up on the booster. If a guild with 300 people can attack my tower, then I just don't build a tower.

[____________Intrepid]

I think that if some orgs get overpowered and start taking out everyone instead of complaining here that org bonuses should be diluted by the size of your org maybe you should form alliance to take out your common foe. You know strategize instead of complain??

As for the problem of all european or all american orgs. Well recruit people outside your timezone. If you selfishly wanna keep your org to a few select people then thats a choice of yours and along with that you may leave your tower vulnerable to attack when no one is online. I have played other games where you are suseptible to attack 24/7 and its amazing how people adapt their schedules to make sure that you have coverage 24/7 makes those games addicting as hell because now you realize you are one of only a couple people from your org online and you are bored as hell of Bs missions and would normally log off but that would leave your org shorthanded incase of attack and so you stay online more.

[cooler150]

Thanks for the reply Dominata and Lirona, now to answer some of your points:

'As for alliances... It is a nice thought, but the problem is that only one faction can own the tower and the benefits will only affect the faction who owns the tower. I salute the org leaders who will make such an alliance work when the time comes to decide which faction should be allowed to build a tower. If AO had a fully working faction system in place alliances could have had a place in the game. As it is, alliances are pointless since in the end onlt one faction will get to own the new tower.'

What I am talking about is factions who own towers making alliances that way they are helping each other defend there towers.

'If the owners of the booster is allowed to raise their caps and go beyond what non-owners will ever be able to, you do indeed "gimp" them since they will be forever left behind ability wise.'

'There is no way, if things are as the article describes, that a normal player will have any way to fight against or compete with those who decide to shell out the twenty dollars.'

The only way a player will be left behind ability wise is in PvP as I said before play your character to the best of there ability and stop worrying about what someone else has and you don't. Maybe I am just stupid but I don't understand this they will have something I don't attitude this is a game and I enjoy it as such I take my character and use him to the best of his abbilities I do not worry about what other players can or cant do. If it worries people so much about what the booster pack offers go and buy it if not enjoy what you already have and make the most of it.

As to big orgs haveing advantages of smaller orgs well doh!!!
If you have an org of 300 against an org of 50 who will win well let me think.....of course the org with 300 will win. Therefor if you have a small org you have to put some thought into what you are doing 'RPG anyone', decide wether it is worthwill getting a tower straight away or try to build a bigger stronger org. Just because the towers are there doesn't mean you have to run out and get them straight away you have to think and plan look at the pros and cons again adding a whole new dimension to the game.

You as players should be looking at this a asking yourself how can I play this with what I have.

Thanks for taking the time to read this

Tseek

[Treonaut]

"If you have an org of 300 against an org of 50 who will win well let me think.....of course the org with 300 will win. "

OK, so 4 organizations will then buy the booster. Good for FunCom.

I don't want 200 people I don't know in my organization. I don't want to have to be a prostitute in backyard to make lowbie join me. I don't believe bigger is better. That is what Americans think. Why don't just make this like the stupid Tarasque and have only two guilds to fight and then one will fade away and it won't be fun. 1 huge gang who sits around and nobody shows up. Why does everybody say Tarasque stinks. Because the winners always win and get more uber loot and get stronger and get more members and get more uber loot and get stronger to make more members join so its easier to get uber loot so they look good to other people to join.

Big size should be penalized by dividing the bonus of the tower by the number of members in the group. One tower should not give 5 million bonus hitpoints to one guild and the itentical exact same tower only give 15k hitpoints to another guild. Don't you see the math that is terrible horrible wrong? Do you join the guild with 5 million hitpoints or the guild with 15k hitpoints? Who wins every battle every time no matter what other little 'friend guilds' come to waste their time and die to the 'super guild'.

There is no fun recipe in the booster except for maybe 6 guilds in the game now unless the math is done right to make EVERY battle be hard fought and not a done decision before it starts.

'Who do we destroy tower next? Oh, one in Wine .... dead. OK, one in Avalon .... dead. OK, one in Mort .... dead."

"Oh, look. Supersize guild is attacking our mine in Newland Desert. OK, well that's a goner. Time for more mission to afford a new one. Don't bother to defend as you are wasting time"

Fun. Not.

[cooler150]

"Oh, look. Supersize guild is attacking our mine in Newland Desert. OK, well that's a goner. Time for more mission to afford a new one. Don't bother to defend as you are wasting time"

Then dont buy one. That simple.

Why should you penalize large orgs for being large they would hardly think that was fair as you do not think it is fair for small orgs.

The expansion isn't even out yet and people are saying this aint fair and that aint fair. You haven't tried it how do you know?

Yes there will be problems but we as players have to put forward constructive critisicm to solve these problems if and when they occur, not cry into our sleeves shouting this is not fair they can do something I cant. There are a lot of good players come on these boards giving good ideas then you get the ones who just like to shout about how unfair things are.

Nobody holds a gun to your head saying you will play AO if it is such an unfair game dont play it. It is up to you the player to make the game, that is why it is called an RPG.

There is a lot about AO which I think can be improved from my point of view but I also realize FC can not please everybody so I make the best of what I have and fling an idea out now and then and hope FC pick up on it.

Thanks for taking the time to read this

Tseek

[Treonaut]

I just did make a concern and a suggestion for crying out loud. You just don't agree.

I said that tower benefit should be divided by number of members. That way the same quality 300 tower gives both big and little guild the same benefit. Big guild can still benefit from more members, but both towers which cost the same and are the same exact thing benefit each guild the same.

Do you read?

You state your feelings like they are law. I state my feelings like opinion. I don't care you have 300 people. I think that is worse than 20 people who are friends. That is how I feel. Should I say it like law?

OK. There should be a penalty for large guilds. It is obvious those lemmings can't think for themselves and are a curse on the game. They detract from the social nature of AO in that tight together groups who think alike and enjoy each others company are forced to break up or dissolve because FunCom must make the game hard enough to challenge the throngs of lemmings who band together for the false strength that packs of animals have always had during evolution of species to make up for inferior ability.

OK? Thats a fact. How about we wait for something to come out that is a disaster and THEN tell our concerns after it's another huge let down for this game?

I have a concern and you don't care to talk about it or even feel it matters.

Well, happy for the two people who buy the booster. Guess not me if FunCom won't talk about how they are going to keep the superguilds from destroying everybody elses fun.

[cooler150]

Thanks for your reply Pumpkin. You realy don't like large guilds do you.

'OK. There should be a penalty for large guilds. It is obvious those lemmings can't think for themselves and are a curse on the game. They detract from the social nature of AO in that tight together groups who think alike and enjoy each others company are forced to break up or dissolve because FunCom must make the game hard enough to challenge the throngs of lemmings who band together for the false strength that packs of animals have always had during evolution of species to make up for inferior ability.'

Personaly I play with a relativly small org and have a great time I have had no problem with large orgs and dont see how they detract from the social nature of AO, if people are happy to be in a big org that is there right just like if you enjoy being in a small org that is your right.

Tseek

[____________Intrepid]

So just because you're worried that some bigger org might come and punk your tower your not even going to try. Now thats the spirit. If you can't beat em don't try.

[Treonaut]

No, I have no problem with large guilds. If that is how those people choose to have their fun. My problem is that the fact that they should not be destroying the game for me how I like to have fun.

I didn't say for penalizing them. I only said that because they are tremendous that is not the reason they should destroy me. I am a customer. I want to have as much fun as people who play alone or in a huge pack.

I offer solutions:

You just make the people in the huge pack only able to fight the people in the huge pack. Both groups fighting have fun. Everybody has fun but less chances for fighting. This is ok as a solution.

You dilute the bonus by the number of people in guild. Then if 100 people come to destroy 10 people, the 10 people who paid exactly the same credits as the 100 people will get the same benefit and the combat will be more fair. Everybody has fun but big guild still has advantage of numbers even if they don't artificial pump the bonus of the tower. This is also ok. I let number be an advantage as long as advantages cannot multiply. Add is ok, mulitply is bad.

I won't pay for:

10 people put up a tower for 20 million credits and get 5 thousand health each for 50 thousand health. 100 people put up a tower for 20 million credits and get 5 thousand health each for half a million health. The 100 come to the 10's tower and have no chance ever in a million years of ever losing. 100 people have fun. 10 people say the game is terrible and a waste of time. Not exciting. Not thrilling. PvP still broken forever.

EDIT: No, Intrepid, I won't try. Nope. Not until FunCom shows me it's worth twenty dollars plus shipping. I don't see it worth sending in the money to be guaranteed to lose.

[cooler150]

How large is your guild Pumpkin?

Tseek

[Gearbox]

It's impossible to say how unfair this will be until you've tried it. Will large guilds abuse it and ruin everyone elses' time? They'll certainly try. That seems to be their #1 priority.

Will they be able to? I don't know. I'll wait and see before I shout "doomsday", though.