Clanners, a call to reason!

[______________Nelida]

I was an Advisor in CAS at the time of this incedent and on-world when clan forces moved on Kithrak. CAS was indeed involved in the assasination of Kithrak despite my extrememly loud objections.

This, amoung other reasons, is just one example of why I do not believe CAS is an appropriate driving force behind either Republicanism, freedom or peace. For too long they have been known for their terrorist deeds...not for cooperativity, unity or peace. The CoA is tainted by these very leaders that have demonstrated such ruthlessness in the past. Words do not erase deeds...only new and consistant action can erase the terrorist deeds of the past...actions I have not seen as yet.

CoA wants us to follow them based solely upon their rhetoric.
Personally I want a leader that has SHOWN me what I'm following.

Originally posted by Charles


I didn't know about that. The investigations by Omni-Pol didn't turn up any leads. Thankyou for the information. At the time I was killed in 4-Holes while surveying the damage to the HQ. The second wave of clanners arrived to assult the area and Patk9 snuck past the first line of defenders, meaning it was a delibrate action, not accidental.

The clans in the Council of Ares need to take a step back and look around to see "why" there is concern raised over the CoA's true aims and issues of ignoreing the other clan leaders' protests of their violent behavior.

[_____________Kungwho]

Greetings Nel.

And as you know Nel, I was perhaps the most vocal opponent of the assassination, both before and after the fact. I'm presently a CAS Advisor and my opinions have not changed. And I would like to think the opinion of the leadership here in CAS has evolved.

It would be a pleasure to talk with you Kithrak, and anyone else interested in establishing a society based upon principles of humanity and justice.

[______________Nelida]

I think that I'd recommend that Kithrak talk to you as an individual...yes.

My advice is that you, Kung, promote what you obviously believe in...but leave the CAS and CoA baggage behind because no one can take CAS seriously as a proponent of planet-wide peace, prosperity and "humanity".

Your words "...I would like to think..." with regards to CAS evolution are, IMO, just that...wishful thinking. And, I might add, not born out by any action what so ever...talk is not action.

Kithrak, for whatever it is worth, my words to you are: Do not trust CoA and CAS in the forging of a new peace...nothing in thier actions demonstrate their good intent in this. My experience is that they will sail on whatever self-serving wind blows their way.

Originally posted by Kungwho
Greetings Nel.

And as you know Nel, I was perhaps the most vocal opponent of the assassination, both before and after the fact. I'm presently a CAS Advisor and my opinions have not changed. And I would like to think the opinion of the leadership here in CAS has evolved.

It would be a pleasure to talk with you Kithrak, and anyone else interested in establishing a society based upon principles of humanity and justice.

[Daimoness]

Ms. Nelida, perhaps you find that people that do something also will make a lot of errors. Only someone that doesn't do anything won't ever miss, but he will fail for sure. I hope that you allow people to evolve and to change their oppinions. Don't judge us from the past, judge us from the future.

The CAS has been quite aggressive in the past, but the CoA has ruled on it's constitutional meeting that offensive actions against Omni-Tek Departments or installations are prohibited. The CoA will for now focus on more important things like the Dust Brigade, which has been a goal of MD for quite some time.

If we want to avoid all-out war, speeches of hate and defamation won't help us to any end.

Lt. Corrine 'Daimoness' Wright
Mercury Dragons

[______________Nelida]

And when did this "ruling" by CoA take place?
Have there been no offensive actions by CoA clans since this ruling?

If this is true then my comment will be that you can deem yourselves "changed" when your actions have demonstrated this "change"...not simply when you mouth these "changes".

Actions over time brought you this reputation...one which you actively sought out to be known for.

Actions over time will change that reputation and erase the past. If that is truely what you wish then you will continuously demonstrate it to us not just talk to us about it.

Originally posted by Daimoness
Ms. Nelida, perhaps you find that people that do something also will make a lot of errors. Only someone that doesn't do anything won't ever miss, but he will fail for sure. I hope that you allow people to evolve and to change their oppinions. Don't judge us from the past, judge us from the future.

The CAS has been quite aggressive in the past, but the CoA has ruled on it's constitutional meeting that offensive actions against Omni-Tek Departments or installations are prohibited. The CoA will for now focus on more important things like the Dust Brigade, which has been a goal of MD for quite some time.

If we want to avoid all-out war, speeches of hate and defamation won't help us to any end.

Lt. Corrine 'Daimoness' Wright
Mercury Dragons

[Daimoness]

The ruling was around a week ago and there have been no actions since. This thread seems to get us nowhere as long as 50% of the posts are hinted or open accusations. Who defines what is right and what is wrong? Common Sense? Everyone only voices his own oppinion and thus there isn't even a discussion, it's mere a collection of fixed statements made by people with largely fixed positions.

Believe whatever you want to believe, I don't care any more.

My concerns are not with the political part, I'm confident that politics will continue to screw up as long as people run around armed and without control. If you want to stop the war, turn off reclaim for one month. 90% of the warmongers will be either dead or hide out of the fear to die - permanently. You won't stop the war through words as long as the majority of the people on both sides is not able to reflect their own actions. Armed people with childish minds. With death almost impossible, this has become a mere game. But a dangerous game - no risk, no fun, as they say.

We clanners sometimes talk of Omni-Tek as a bunch of brainwashed thugs that sold out their lives to the corporation, but we fail to see that we're no better. We too define ourselves through Omni-Tek, only that we're against it. What comes after Omni-Teks possible but unlikely defeat? Anarchy is most probable, as we only share one vision: Freedom. What's Freedom? Ask 20 people and you get 10 different options. Whichever you choose, you have at least half of them against you. No other concept works and even if OT pulled out tomorrow, the clans would start fighting among each other even while OT is packing their ships.

So keep up thinking in the "we're better, you're the bad boys" fashion, this will really serve to solve problems.

Believe whatever you want to believe. Or rather, what they want to make you believe. Who they are? I don't know the answer myself, but perhaps we will find it one day, if we want to.

Yes, your self-righteous attitude is really making me sick. If you have a problem with someone, talk to him, but stop doing it here. If you don't believe in words but only in actions, then do something. It took me less than one week to convince Red Tigers and CAS to stop pulling off senseless attacks - senseless because they don't improve anything, they only worsen the situation. This talking here doesn't move anything.

If it makes you feel better to think that CoA is the evil that befell Rubi-Ka, then I can live with it just fine.

Lt. Corrine 'Daimoness' Wright
Mercury Dragons - CoA -

[Cyani]

Yes, your self-righteous attitude is really making me sick. If you have a problem with someone, talk to him, but stop doing it here. If you don't believe in words but only in actions, then do something. It took me less than one week to convince Red Tigers and CAS to stop pulling off senseless attacks - senseless because they don't improve anything, they only worsen the situation. This talking here doesn't move anything.

The reason it took you less than one week to convince
Red Tigers and CAS to stop pulling off senseles attacks..
ARE due to the Actions of us and the Talking in this forum..
The pressure of what was said here dictated that..

You don't think we have tried to Talk to CAS and its leaders?

What you dont understand.. is Whisper's Edge was formed from
CAS advisors and members who talked to they were blue in the
face Daimoness.. Nothing simply changed.. Until Recently.. while
in CAS these talks were simply dismissed and kept within the
Guild.. As soon as I and others began Speaking outside of CAS
and calling out the inconsistances and noting the senseless
attacks drawing a negative light they could not deny... Wow..
So I imagine the new Ruling and the more diplomatic stance...
the "About Face" that you so eliquently enacted by a simple one
week of discussion and had nothing to do with our talk or action..

So our self-righteous attitude is making you sick.. ??
Perhaps we were a bit self-righteous.. Are you not by definition,
and by the statements you have made..... the same?

The ruling is a step in the right direction and I applaud your effort.

Please understand though... For you to label us self-righteous for
trying to accomplish the same goal the you credit yourself for is a
bit condescending...

I hope to see Unity in my lifetime here on Rubi-Ka...

--Long Live the Clans--
Unity Justice Freedom

[Kithraks]

I have here in my posession a legitimate ID-Scan of a CAS member attacking the 2HO outpost trying to hijack a Goliath with a myraid of other clanners. Care to explain and offer a more believable excuse than Omni is evil and you are acting in self defense by hijacking Omni property, property which is not yours?

Are you sure it is just an accident that a CAS member were not working for your clan's own selfish interests in usurping Omni-Tek to instate only yourselves as Rubi-Ka's rightful masters?

I offered the clanners in question the option to surrender yet they ended up by teaming up and specifically targeting me out of the rest of the Omni defenders present.

CoA and CAS, you lie.

[Meister]

You gave a clanner the option to surrender? *tries to stop laughing* Shoot first, and let god sort the pieces my Omni-Tek brethren.

[Daimoness]

Waste of time.

*END*

Edit: Iceman, you're right. There was no option. The hydra of Omni-Tek is just as uncontrollable as the clans. Not a single trooper would have stopped shooting just because the President of Red Tape orders him to do. Shoot it out and there will be nothing left in the end, but perhaps this planet will have peace when there's nothing left that's worth fighting for.

Clan Whisper's Edge - your history was indeed unknown to me, thanks for the information. But what does it change? We can't turn back the wheel of time but you seem unwilling to look into the future. You left CAS to make a fresh start and at the same time won't allow others to change. This is inconsequential. In every of your posts you repeat the same things over and over. You have your oppinions, I have mine, as has everyone else. If no one moves, we will have war. Diplomacy means that everyone has to give up something. The CoA has moved. If you still blame us for the past, you are not open for the future. Blaming other for past errors is a waste of time as it has no impact on the things to come. Maybe we will have a more constructive talk at some time in the future. Maybe not. Maybe you will join the ranks of all those that already wait for their chance to take a shot at us. We all have become part of the evil we fought so turning against each other seems a logical consequence. There is no common ground here to talk and it does not help to point fingers. Perhaps we will have the chance to talk one day, but not here.

Mr. Kithrak - war starts where diplomacy fails. Sadly, there's too many people on both sides that are unable to live in peace and we are unable to control them. I do not see the clans as a unity any more, and I don't see that Omni-Tek's many departments are a unity. The only possibility I see is a non-agression treaty that encompasses those that want peace. I don't have to be a seer to be able to forecast the impact of the mining equipment and the subsequent land control on the already crumbling peace we have. I don't talk in idealistic tones, my world is the real world and here, we don't have good or bad any more. What we have is shades of grey. I have a goal I pursue and if you want, I will explain it to you, but this is not the right place.

As for your questions regarding 2HO: This was not a CAS / CoA action. We were requested by a High Commander to help rescuing fellow clansmen that were held in 2HO outpost without any legal cause. I myself was present at that place and I have seen you there. Clan forces retreated once the objectives were completed and as far as I know there was no permanent loss of lives. As for loss of property: As soon as Omni-Pol stops acting as if they were our police force and arrest clansmen we won't see any cause to use force to eliberate them. Likewise, as we were only following the request of a respectd clansman, I, MD or CoA won't assume any responsibility for the action. As for the facts I was given, it was not us to initiate the aggression, but Omni-Tek forces operating outside their rightful duty. Besides, this was also before the official decision on the non-aggression policy.

I in turn am in possession of legal IDs of Omni-Pol personnel walking around Tir and causing a lot of trouble by derogatory talk and a general behaviour that won't help anyone towards a peaceful solution. [OOC: Both were staged ARK events for anyone that missed that, the latter crashing Tir for around 30 minutes.]

This is my last message here and I leave it up to you to think about it. I won't continue reading here as I have come to realize again that this is waste of time as I feel like this is not going to help in any way. Everyone has stated his / her oppinion several times over, we had fingers pointing and even some flaming and insulting, but in the end - nothing. This is no one's fault perhaps but my time is limited and I don't pursue things that have yet to yield any bit of progress. I might be back if this discussion proves to become constructive, but till then I wish you all save travels around Rubi-Ka.

Lt. Corrine 'Daimoness' Wright
Mercury Dragons - CoA -

[OOC: In the game we're faced with hoards of immature people that don't know anything about roleplaying and are simply here to do some bashing and powermonging and I don't see any way to escape them. Perhaps it would be best to simply make up an OOC alliance of all those that are more interested in the RP aspect of the upcoming booster than the pure joy of mass PvP. This does not necessarily mean we must be friends in-character, but it will help us all to have more fun playing by creating our own stories and events. Feel free to contact me OOC - I am still able to make a difference between the game and the character I play.]

[_____________Hirunda]

Lt. Daimoness speaks the truth.

There have been no authorised COA actions against Omni-Tek since the ruling was made a week ago.

Of course you can see your views and comments as being the cause of this action. Knowing the Lieutenant, I personally doubt it. But does it really matter?

Many people made comments that they could find no understanding of the motivation for attacking various OT bases. Some members of the COA felt the same way. Something was done about it. I personally feel this is a positive thing. It is good to be part of an organisation that is responds to the concerns of its members.

Individual COA members who violate COA edicts can be reported to their Commanding Officers for further action as long as compelling evidence is supplied.

Private Hirunda
Mercury Dragons, COA

[OOC: An alliance of people wanting to RP this conflict would be a good idea. My favorite IC enemies were always those I knew OOC.]

[________________Enri]

Originally posted by Savoy
"Need I remind you that death is not permanent and no one will be missed."

Well, that is a bit cheap shot. If you want to make people feel that the Omni-Clan conflict actually matters, this is pretty much the last thing you want to mention. Do you want me to point out that no matter how many time you attack the Avalon base, you will never gain control of it?

<OOC> I understand how that can be a cheap shot, but I think it is significant. I love to RP, and in that effect, "think in context." I think disregarding death as something as serious as it is in RL is what makes the politics in AO so interesting... and different.

Like I said I can respect anyone's roleplaying stance. However I would say that blatant propaganda on the story forum (which most people view as an occ forum) is bad form. By pushing your world view very strongly on a public forum, you are implicitly challenging other player's equally valid world view.

<OOC> I. Totally. Agree.

[Spiritdancer]

Originally posted by Enri


<OOC> I understand how that can be a cheap shot, but I think it is significant. I love to RP, and in that effect, "think in context." I think disregarding death as something as serious as it is in RL is what makes the politics in AO so interesting... and different.



<OOC> I. Totally. Agree.

Er? I thought this was an IC Chat? oh well?

I know I've only been playing for just over a year how would I know?

But what the hell. OCC it is.

I dont think I will post anymore here cause it's OCC and er it makes this section a bit pointless now?

Kind Regards

Blackpagan

ps Anyone know where IC Chat can go on about the politics (which I agree with it is much more interesting than RL) or do I look into starting my own board for that?

[________________Fiqh]

The time for talking is past. We have been given an ultimatum by OT and we have given our answer.
CoA has passed through a process constitutional reforms needed for effective operation of our alliance. We have matured and grown. We now stand ready and prepared to face the threats to the Clans and do out bid in the defense of the Clans. We do not claim that we are the only ones in the right but we know that we are not in the wrong.

May my enemies blood flow deep within the ground of Rubi-Ka. Long live the Clans!

Any and all opinions that are expressed in this statement are my personal. [ooc: this is becoming too legal lol]

[Kithraks]

Need I remind everyone that the CoA is the very threat that has braught this about in the first place? Forget about defending defending the clans, worry about how much longer they can uphold their lies.

I will state once again that Omni-Tek has shown great restraint in makeing sure that only the terrorists and those associated with them will be made to answer for their recent crimes against the company. The CoA can't honestly expect to get away with their three most recent unprovoked attacks and then cry self-defense as if it will suddenly make them invlunerable to any retaliation can they?

Note: OTSEC and OT are not equivalent. You made a mistake O' PR mystic of the CoA.

[Spiritdancer]

As long as you set your own house in order too Charles then I dont seee any real problem with that. But do yours first cause if you dont It will look badly if you do nothing against the Omli people tasking actions against the rest of us first.

BlackP

[Fixerben]

Well to all the Omni that say they have not led any unprovoked attacks, I seem to remember an incident involving a Juggernaut right outside of Tir...what was that all about? And just to clear something up here. The CoA is not an offensive party. We are strictly defensive. I myself am a Captain of the CoA Guard. When I wear my uniform I act strictly according to CoA regulations. My guild affiliation has no bearing on my actions as a CoA representative. Second, Redruum no matter how much you wish to deny it, is NOT the leader of the CoA. The CoA's leadership is comprised of the leaders of all the participating guilds. It has a very republican style in which everyone has a fair vote as to the Actions of the CoA. All attacks and Declarations of War are made by majority votes. Not decided by anyone person. I beleive if some people were more informed on our structure and beleifs they would see the good in the CoA. But as you continue to slander and throw false information about the CoA in everyones face no one really knows the truth. So for final clarification. If you wish to know anything true about the CoA the you should see the CoA website and read the Ares Pact.

http://coa.patrixnet.com/

There is the link, its usable by the explorer in your windows based NCU interface. Now if you still have other questions on our policies please feel free to contact us in game. And please remember the CoA is NOT the CAS. The CAS is part of the CoA, but there are currently 7 guilds that participate in the organization. So dont confuse CAS actions with CoA actions.

-Fixerben

[Fixerben]

Yes and another thing. In response to Charles' accusation of the CoA bringing down the CoT. The CoT had asked us about 4 months ago to step down so they could have time to work things out. Only after we had stepped down had they fled. We had disbanded at the time the CoT fled. And not for more than a month after they fled had we reorganized our ranks. So once again your misinformation shows. Please dont continue to throw falsities at the peoples of the Clans. Your words only cause you more pain.

-Fixerben

[Fixerben]

Originally posted by Nelida
Personally I want a leader that has SHOWN me what I'm following.

Ahem...So Nelida please show me some one leader who can do as you say. The CoA stands behind the Republican government, all the discussion you hear from CAS members about the Republican governemt is referring to the CoA. Of which the CAS is a part, but only a part. The CAS in no way makes all the decisions of the CoA. As I stated in my previous post the CoA is lead by a council of many leaders. With many people agreeing upon the decisions. Not one guild, but many. And as people being to understand what we stand for they join us. Our ranks swell with understanding, not with slandering. So please refer to my previous post so you can better understand what the CoA stands for.

[Fixerben]

Originally posted by Moradus
[B]

...Avalon...

Well this seems to me that Avalon is a clan controlled territory. Yet there is an Omni base there containing Clan Prisoners. Look in the small forcefeild outside of the entrance, and you will see the CAS' reason for attacking that base. We were there to free our brothers and sisters. Think as you wish, that was our purpose. And once again, this post is in my CAS character. Not pertaining to the CoA.