Changes to deflection shields

[schma]

On test, the deflection shields now have an additional requirement -> "Not: using distance weapons".

I'm not sure I agree with this change.

1. From a "immersion" point of view, it is a gizmo running in your utility slot, not a shield wielded in your hands. Both melee and ranged weapon users would be able to utilize such a device.

2. I understand it's meant as a boon to those professions already having high parry skill. However, the skill requirements in themselves (dark blue skill for "ranged" professions) and the limited usability today (the shields being the only reason to actually raise this skill) is enough of a drawback that very few ranged users actually invest in these shields. Actually making that choice for the player by forbidding the use of this item is, like many of the recent changes, limiting the players options in character development and diversity.

Some ranged users (I'm probably not alone) have raised this skill, being at the point in my "career" that I actually have some IP spare to explore other ways to strengthen my character. I've found these shields a nice buffer when being pounded on by the new outdoor mobs (secundus and primus mobs as an example) or high end mission NPCs. They only lasts for a short time, and are only usable every 5 minutes. It does provide me with a emergency tool, that might help me survive a tough opponent long enough to let a healer help me out.

so, my questions for the devs:
* Is this change really necessary? (why?)
* If this change will be enforced, will those ranged users who have invested in this skill be offered a reset point to reclaim the IP spent in parry?

Any players have thoughts on this change? Is it a justified change in terms of immersion/balance?

- schma

<attention meta-tags: Cz Cosmik Funcom>

[Blackwing]

i do remember that they said parry and riposte were about to be scrutinized for their effectiveness.

you can argue for them working this way from the time honored dune or forever war principle of stopping any fast moving attacks going in or out.

since i do not know anybody using them i am in no position to gauge their value balance wise though.

my gut feeling would be to argue against it.

[__________THEDEACON!]

I agree with you guys on this. leave the scopes and shields and crit buffs the way they are. there's simply no practical reason to change them. There are serious problems with the engineer profession and while I don't play an engi, I understand that when this many folks complain, they must have a pointin htere somewhere.

The problem is this: When funcom nerfs something, they don't look at the big picture. the dev team, while talented in some aspects, have a very narrow vision of the game.

The scope changes are meant as a nerf for MAs, yet they will end up nerfing MA using engis, adventurers and Enforcers more than they will hurt the class they were intended to nerf and at the same time give an imbalancing boost to all ranged users that also have the advantage of having range to their weapons and in many cases, roots as well.

As I've shown before, with common gear and buffs (common meaning no ellts or T loot): 8% ve, 4% tts, 7% crat speech or mop, a ranged user has more crit chance than most title 5 MAs running lma, not to mention they have a ranged/root advantage and their weapons crit for higher amounts than an MA's fists.

I'm positive that funcom did not intend for this to happen, as the description for the MA is that of "master of the critical hit". Yet, couldn't that title now be given to agents with their concentration nanos plus the aforementioned gear?

ffok made self only: BAD nerf to engis. yes, they do have the best MA buff in the game, but it sure doesn't seem to help them in the gimped department

deflection shield changes: now this is just plain silly and nobody asked for this. Perhaps an MA with a bow would still like to use his shield? As schma said, the shield is not something we wear in our hand, but rather a utility on our belt. Explain why it works with melee users but not ranged? I suppose this is a weak way of making up for the scope changes. Groan.

It lasts mere seconds and can only be used every five minutes and at higher levels, most mobs hit for minimum damage anyway. I only use it because I already have the parry skill from flower of life and blessed with thunder.

Breed changes: Shortsighted and imbalanced. That's all I'm saying right now

funcom really needs to think about the big picture and how one intended nerf causes a half dozen 'ripple effect' nerfs that were not intended. Slow down with adding new cute things and re-examine your vision for the game. Yes, we all begged for content and yes we still want it, but it seems silly that after a year and a half the silly little things have yet to be corrected, such as tradeskills items. They just keep adding mroe and more onto the game, yet never stop to correct the problems that alrady exist. Nerf this, love patch that, seeming at random. we've lost touch with the developers and they just seem to be on a roller coaster ride, making whatever fun changes that fancies them at the moment, yet avoiding the unpleasant ugliness such as pet pathing and certain profession-specific issues.

This smells slightly of irresponsibility.

[schma]

I agree with TheD here on looking at the big picture. The nerfs often strike a larger target than what was intended.

you can argue for them working this way from the time honored dune or forever war principle of stopping any fast moving attacks going in or out.

Nice reference there

However, the shields in AO does not function like the Dune shields:

* Dune shields protect against projectile and not melee and can be used by anyone. (I'm not an expert on Dune, think that's how they work)

* (Nerfed) AO shields protect against projectile and melee and can only by used by melee users.

If Funcom wants to adopt the dune shields, it would mean these shields would no longer work against melee attacks. I don't think that's a popular solution, either

since i do not know anybody using them i am in no position to gauge their value balance wise though.

When you activate a shield it grants you a limited time AC buff in a specific type of protection (e.g. energy AC).

As TheDeacon says, most mobs will hit you for minimum damage anyway. The only times I use these shields are against Ace/RM enforcer mobs or outside "bosses" that hit me for way more than minimum damage. It's a small gain for a rather hefty skill investment, so in my opinion it is not unbalancing in any way.

--

I do however have little-to-no experience in PvP. Maybe there is some "unbalance" there I don't know about. Any comments from people with more knowledge in that area?

- schma

[__________THEDEACON!]

I can say that they don't help a great deal in pvp either unfortunately :/

but as my motto goes: every last drop helps. I try anything and everything to succeed in pvp, like a nasty little badger, so I use the shield anyway. hey, if it saves me 200 hp in pvp, that might have been the 200 hp that saves my life.

but they just aren't good enough or worthwhile enough to warrant nerfingthem at all. Sometimes the things Funcom does just leaves players scratching their heads in confusion. this is one of those things.

One thing ive never tried however are riposte shields. Do they work the same as parry shields and will they be nerfed as well? And more importantly, can they be chained together for a logner effect? or stacked?

I dunno what's going on with Funcom these days. I still love AO, but I'm beginning to have serious doubts about their ability to fix some fundamental problems with the game. I think if they knew how, it would no longer be a problem, especially with so many folks complaining.

14.6 is starting to sound more and more like 12.6 in terms of customer dissatisfaction and this is coming from someone who has actually liked most of the things added or changed in the last 2 patches. I guess we'll see, but I think they are being to ambitious for their own good here. Piling good stuff on top of a bad foundation does not change the fact that there's still bad underneath. In fact, it's worse because the foundation is what keeps everything standing. words to live by...

[schma]

Riposte shields ("Deflection shield projectors") grants the user a short time damage shield (not reflect shield).

They resemble the Deflection Shields in lasting only a few seconds, and are "locked" for a period of time after.

The effect of Riposte shields is very pathetic atm, so I doubt anyone use those at all.

I did not check the description on those shields, so I don't know if they have been changed in the same manner as Deflection Shields (i.e. melee users only).

I have heard they are reworking the riposte skill, though, so the riposte skill in itself might actually become usable in the future.

- schma

P.S:

14.6 is starting to sound more and more like 12.6

I like this quote, because the current state on test (it's the first build and still _very_ unpolished) had me all nostalgic with the amount of bugs present (all the bugs I experienced are reported and acknowlegded, though!).

The clipping in the new dungeon, backpack gnomes, items dropping of the hot-bar, solo-missions close to impossible due to the new pet mobs, etc.. It's worth a trip there now, just to get an impression of what the game used to be, and see how much they have actually fixed since then

It'll all be fixed in next test-build, though, so head over right away for that trip down (bad) memory lane

- D.S.

[__________THEDEACON!]

Originally posted by schma
Riposte shields ("Deflection shield projectors") grants the user a short time damage shield (not reflect shield).

They resemble the Deflection Shields in lasting only a few seconds, and are "locked" for a period of time after.

The effect of Riposte shields is very pathetic atm, so I doubt anyone use those at all.

I did not check the description on those shields, so I don't know if they have been changed in the same manner as Deflection Shields (i.e. melee users only).

I have heard they are reworking the riposte skill, though, so the riposte skill in itself might actually become usable in the future.

- schma

P.S:



I like this quote, because the current state on test (it's the first build and still _very_ unpolished) had me all nostalgic with the amount of bugs present (all the bugs I experienced are reported and acknowlegded, though!).

The clipping in the new dungeon, backpack gnomes, items dropping of the hot-bar, solo-missions close to impossible due to the new pet mobs, etc.. It's worth a trip there now, just to get an impression of what the game used to be, and see how much they have actually fixed since then

It'll all be fixed in next test-build, though, so head over right away for that trip down (bad) memory lane

- D.S.

hehe remember "take it easy". That was my favorite. you were considered uber if you could actually attack the mob. the funny part was, when that rhino was stomping on my lowbie butt back then, the last thing I felt like doing was taking it easy.

But yeah, I think I may take a trip to the test server. It would honestly be nice if we could choose the level we wanted on test instead of lvling a new char. I'd like to see how the changes affect me at 150+ and 170+ instead of lvl 1+ hehe

[cold]

Deflection shields always had the requirement that you wield melee weapons, nothing is being nerfed here. Maybe they now finally added that to the description

[schma]

Hm.

I didn't know that since:

a) it's not in the description (not even a hint)

b) they work, and I'm only using ranged weapons

- schma