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Thread: Viablity of ranged crit setup? Drop out FA completely?

  1. #1

    Viablity of ranged crit setup? Drop out FA completely?

    Hey there!
    Recently, with the addition of the new Awakened items, I was curious to try some things out.

    Since I'm ranged, and we are still using that decade old JEPP gun (and I feel we will still be wearing it forever...), I was considering the following:

    Would a ranged setup based on damage and crit with Twitch/Peh'wer(Or dual Peh'wer for SL) be better than a damage setup with FA pistol and Twitch(or Peh'Wer for SL)?

    Something along this:
    http://auno.org/ao/equip.php?saveid=202694
    - Neck is Awakened Combat ( +65 dmg / +2% crit )a
    - Shoulderpad is Awakened SoS ( +5% crit )
    - Add 6 Lightstalker perks, auno doesn't have them(aad/agi/evades + 3 a dmg perk)

    I have no idea exactly how to calculate the 1% crit = how many damage, but from a formula found, it would be around 1% crit = 15 damage

    With MoP stackable in cat form, we would land at 37%+7%+11%=55% ranged crit. 56% with Coffee.

    Would this work when dropping the FA pistol and going only for twitch/Peh'Wer crits? I'm still in need of 8 items to try it out. Are there any better items we can add? Am I going on the wrong path? Let's discuss
    I'm going to try to run some numbers, maybe we can find some better setups than your usual decade old FA pistol.
    Last edited by Timba; Mar 7th, 2016 at 06:18:14.
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  2. #2
    Seems very very probable to outperform FA pistol in casual play.. would it actually beat it when all things are done and dusted?

    You ( 203.114 / 179.160 / 59 / 7 / 11% / 7.249 )

    Here is your setup in dragon form without much sexy items you describe... 11% crit rate.

    You can do the math from there, probably around 250k dd on punching bag max?
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  3. #3
    you need to remember that add dmg adds to perks and procs so take that into consideration when stacking crit

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Timba View Post
    I have no idea exactly how to calculate the 1% crit = how many damage, but from a formula found, it would be around 1% crit = 15 damage
    If that's the case, then Gannondorf's Combined Commando's Headwear or Sillum's Combined Mercenary's Headwear will outperform the DB gas-mask.

    220s "Wakizaka", "Sneakygank", "Wakimango", "Wakisolja", "Tardersauce", "Bushwaki", "Midgetgank", "Bugfixxx", "Ramsbottom", "Paskadoc"
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  5. #5
    @Wakizaka
    Right on, modified it to the CC.
    @Crat, what was the length of the fight, and I presume the target, a punching bag? Did you simulate that? What setup ?
    Last edited by Timba; Mar 3rd, 2016 at 20:40:08.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Timba View Post
    @Wakizaka
    Right on, modified it to the CC.
    @Crat, what was the length of the fight, and I presume the target, a punching bag? Did you simulate that? What setup ?
    Fight was little over 1 minute long, about time when perks were starting to recharge.

    ok Added another similar run this time +13 crit scope +7 crit from leet +7crit from leet aura... no other changes..

    You ( 302.639 / 204.000 / 80 / 25 / 31% / 7.370 )

    Compared to previous run.
    You ( 203.114 / 179.160 / 59 / 7 / 11% / 7.249 )

    so you claim 58% crit rate?..

    give or take then 235k dpm + some maximization and you are in ballpark of 250k. I have never seen such numbers from FA advy.

    You hit Punching Bag for 3665 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
    You hit Punching Bag for 3158 points of poison damage. Critical hit!
    You hit Punching Bag for 1628 points of poison damage.
    You hit Punching Bag for 1654 points of poison damage.

    here's some taste of min max damage. One important detail.. wearing full set of CSS, + Gauntlet pads, Back.. Masterpiece Ancient Bracer not DB3... because well atrox.. must have pads and css at 100%.
    Last edited by Cratertina; Mar 4th, 2016 at 00:58:54. Reason: added some data.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  7. #7
    Twitch+Peh'Wer

    On punching bag, until Double Shot recharged. Looks promising as I'm lacking multiple items. I'll test a few more dry runs and with FA.

    1. 324 341 Timba (220 Adventurer) - 64% of total
    44 normal hits, 262 979 dpm
    15 hits (34%) were critical hits, being 19% of damage.
    0 glancing hits
    18 nanohits (68 574 dmg - 21%)
    12 Fling Shot (42 645 dmg - 13%)
    8 Burst (68 756 dmg - 21%)
    Lowest hit: 1 442 (nano) Highest hit: 9 611 (Burst)
    Self buffed, S35, both Support + Field Marshal:

    4. 515 353 Timba (220 Adventurer) - 7% of total
    85 normal hits, 203 428 dpm
    37 hits (43%) were critical hits, being 26% of damage.
    2 hits (2%) were glancing hits, being 0% of damage.
    24 nanohits (84 592 dmg - 16%)
    21 Fling Shot (70 090 dmg - 14%)
    15 Burst (107 265 dmg - 21%)
    Lowest hit: 1 125 (glancing) Highest hit: 8 641 (Burst)
    Sector 28 Boss:
    3. 657 456 Timba (220 Adventurer) - 8% of total
    109 normal hits, 190 566 dpm
    42 hits (38%) were critical hits, being 24% of damage.
    6 hits (5%) were glancing hits, being 1% of damage.
    39 nanohits (115 846 dmg - 17%)
    26 Fling Shot (82 200 dmg - 13%)
    18 Burst (132 378 dmg - 20%)
    Lowest hit: 1 159 (glancing) Highest hit: 9 546 (Burst)
    Slacking in S13:
    5. 874 587 Timba (220 Adventurer) - 9% of total
    173 normal hits, 186 744 dpm
    42 hits (24%) were critical hits, being 17% of damage.
    10 hits (5%) were glancing hits, being 1% of damage.
    44 nanohits (145 782 dmg - 16%)
    34 Fling Shot (94 538 dmg - 11%)
    24 Burst (162 391 dmg - 19%)
    Lowest hit: 1 121 (glancing) Highest hit: 8 049 (Burst)
    Last edited by Timba; Mar 3rd, 2016 at 23:08:11.
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  8. #8
    I doubt you'll OD a JEPP + Twitch

    That's not to say don't stack crit, but I honestly don't think there's a weapon in game that can OD the extra 10k damage you'll get every 11s.

    I mean, lets just think about it this way, for a moment, if you get 11k damage /11s with FA, then that's an extra 1k damage on EVERY white hit needed to offset the loss.

    The FA pistol does have a low base damage and low crit, but it's not that much lower than your next best option.

    You're also losing out on +energy damage on peh'wer.

    My advy uses Tro'aler +Pehwer in PVP, swap to Twitch + JEPP for PVM, which I assume is pretty standard, but I've never had a problem with his PVM DPS. Last thing I recall using him for was the enigma instance in DAV and I recall his special alpha doing about 25k damage instantaneously which was pretty reasonable.

  9. #9
    What do you mean losing on Energy Damage? Indeed, if you don't use Poisonous Bite, Remove CotWK and add ERBP, you add 26 energy damage. But otherwise, you can use Poisonous Bite and just stick with a much more cheaper CotWK, let's be realistic, 1 Bil for 26 damage ?

    Crit differences might just make it work, I'll have to test with the same setup. I will have to redo the tests in the same conditions with the FA pistol, but another time as raiding is done for tonight

    Seems Dchest > DB Chest by ~ 12 damage, so I'll try to switch to that as well. Switched in equip.
    Switched back. Didn't see DB Chest is 2% Crit + 15 damage. That's around ~45 damage.
    Last edited by Timba; Mar 4th, 2016 at 01:12:52.
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  10. #10
    Good luck!

    I'm interested to see the results. I use ERBP on my advy - unfortunately he's missing a few items (ACDC, 15% scope) to have a lot of interchange, or ability to independently assess the changes you're looking at.

  11. #11
    My tests are done with missing items as well.

    Only using Agressive Webbing, missing Aquarius Multi Tasker, Awakened Xan offense, just +15 dmg head, Awakened Shoulderplate(motr), CC gloves, and only using Alpha Xan Eye because I can't cast top stuff without hotswapping a dozen items.
    So probably can increase my numbers by 15-20% at minimum with everything in.
    Last edited by Timba; Mar 4th, 2016 at 01:11:45.
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  12. #12
    Okay ran some numbers in 12man.

    Adv with DD setup consisting in full CC, most items similar to mine,but FA pistol + Peh'Wer ->
    4. _ 1 393 854 Heydran (220 Adventurer) - 9% of total
    8. _ 1 108 507 Timba (220 Adventurer) - 7% of total

    So, Mc you are right. It doesn't compare to FA pistol. I'll redo tests with FA pistol when I can.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by McKnuckleSamwich View Post
    I mean, lets just think about it this way, for a moment, if you get 11k damage /11s with FA, then that's an extra 1k damage on EVERY white hit needed to offset the loss.
    Maybe we should look at it this way yes...

    How much damage would second pistol have to do, to offset damage loss from lack of FA. Few things to consider about JEPP... reloading etc takes away atleast 1 shot per 11 seconds away from you. So in 11 seconds give or take second pistol does 4 shots, FA pistol does 3 shots + reload + 11-12k FA. what are regular shots oj JEEP? 1500? Let's say so. Our sexy gun would have to do 4125 per shot.... Ouch.

    My sexy Reflex pistol does 3665 points of poison damage. Critical hit!... on critical.. somewhat short... But there is a gun ingame that can do that... its called perfected low recoil kick pistol... And it would just about do it with 59ish % crit rate. IT also has excellent fling and burst, but shotgun skill is questionable for main hand.

    For some final remarks, say you dont reload after 3shots... and fire off a half assed FA. around 8k, then 3125 average shot damage pistol will do the job.

    3158 points of poison damage. Critical hit! Pehwer is mighty close in a high crit setup. Offcorse my setup seriusly lacks damage so extra 300-400 add damage could be added on top bringing Reflex+Peh'Wer mighty close to a slacking JEEP build.

    So math supports Reflex+Peh'Wer for slighty slacking... but JEEP for ultimate performance. Quite possibly dual Perfected Kick Pistol would win over all other options. Depending on pistol perk avaliability with "shotgun" equiped.
    Quote Originally Posted by Michizure View Post
    This'll be fixed for the next patch

  14. #14
    It was suggested to me to try a PDKP+ Reflex/Twitch... or even
    PDKP + JEPP!

    Sadly, I don't have the money to make a PDKP to try it out... some things are still a luxury for me.

    I'll work towards some FA/Twitch vs Twitch/Peh'Wer tests tomorrow.
    Anarchy Online Concept Art Gallery
    Lazy "Timba" Sabretooth - 220/30/80 - Fire kitty
    Very "Timbats" Much - 220/22/xx - Tradeskiller for hire!
    Timbamf - xx/xx/xx - upcoming tanky
    Spray "Airwick" Alloveryou - 60/6/14

  15. #15
    Right, so FA Pistol + Twitch (200 Xan included)

    at S13:
    (4m:53s)
    2. 1 154 323 Timba (220 Adventurer) - 11% of total
    129 normal hits, 236 380 dpm
    72 hits (55%) were critical hits, being 21% of damage.
    6 hits (4%) were glancing hits, being 0% of damage.
    50 nanohits (171 812 dmg - 14%)
    39 Fling Shot (143 056 dmg - 12%)
    22 Full Auto (256 353 dmg - 22%)
    27 Burst (188 722 dmg - 16%)
    Lowest hit: 985 (glancing) Highest hit: 14 049 (Full Auto)
    S28, cooned once
    (4m:41s)
    3. 1 017 126 Timba (220 Adventurer) - 11% of total
    112 normal hits, 217 179 dpm
    51 hits (45%) were critical hits, being 18% of damage.
    6 hits (5%) were glancing hits, being 0% of damage.
    40 nanohits (149 246 dmg - 14%)
    34 Fling Shot (124 565 dmg - 12%)
    18 Full Auto (223 057 dmg - 22%)
    23 Burst (173 705 dmg - 17%)
    Lowest hit: 985 (glancing) Highest hit: 14 265 (Full Auto)
    Definately we can't drop the FA pistol. On another note, You hit Wing Commander - Ilari'Uri for 15000 points of Full Auto damage. Yey!

    Found out Dchest is 2x the dmg bonus, so dropping DB Chest ( ~45 damage vs 84 ), adding eRBP for +80 (-18 = 62), and substracting the poison buff (-36) nets us at a potential 55 energy damage increase.
    Last edited by Timba; Mar 7th, 2016 at 06:14:12.
    Anarchy Online Concept Art Gallery
    Lazy "Timba" Sabretooth - 220/30/80 - Fire kitty
    Very "Timbats" Much - 220/22/xx - Tradeskiller for hire!
    Timbamf - xx/xx/xx - upcoming tanky
    Spray "Airwick" Alloveryou - 60/6/14

  16. #16
    The choice of gun is largely depending on the type of mobs you are hunting. For anything RK or AI related stuff: Energy is the way to go in combi with stacking Energy dam and Crit. Don't forget Aruls and the blue AI glove etc. The easy (huge) amount of add Energy Dam is so easy that the FA will benefit largely from it (especially with FA nerf calculations when the FA goes over 12k/13k damage). FA cap (15k) is possible indeed. And you won't be able to compensate the solid FA (11sec cycle) damage, with replacing it by any other pistol. Thank you for the supporting calculations Now give us a bigger clip and higher MBS as the PvM counter part of the AS stuff.
    Last edited by Zwelgje; Mar 12th, 2016 at 16:08:11.

  17. #17
    fa nerf calcs start at 10k afaik

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Wakizaka View Post
    If that's the case, then Gannondorf's Combined Commando's Headwear or Sillum's Combined Mercenary's Headwear will outperform the DB gas-mask.
    Vision of Destruction, from The Reck, would actually outperform Gannondorf/Sillum. Totally forgot about it. +15 dmg / +2 crit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    fa nerf calcs start at 10k afaik
    First nerf @ 10k, and second nerf at 12.5k.

    220s "Wakizaka", "Sneakygank", "Wakimango", "Wakisolja", "Tardersauce", "Bushwaki", "Midgetgank", "Bugfixxx", "Ramsbottom", "Paskadoc"
    200s Chrisd, Malema, Delbaeth
    TL5s Youfail, Bugfixx, Riothamus, Johndee

    Proud President of Haven | TL5 PvP


  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Wakizaka View Post
    First nerf @ 10k, and second nerf at 12.5k.
    is this new? i dont remember reading anything about this. can you post the full fa calcs?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazy View Post
    is this new? i dont remember reading anything about this. can you post the full fa calcs?
    Would need to dig around posts from ±7 years ago, iirc.
    I'll see what I can find this evening after work is done, and drinks are drunk.

    220s "Wakizaka", "Sneakygank", "Wakimango", "Wakisolja", "Tardersauce", "Bushwaki", "Midgetgank", "Bugfixxx", "Ramsbottom", "Paskadoc"
    200s Chrisd, Malema, Delbaeth
    TL5s Youfail, Bugfixx, Riothamus, Johndee

    Proud President of Haven | TL5 PvP


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