PvP flagged changes - Intentional?

[ylnotixe]

I did not read about this, but now you cannot enter the grid anywhere if you are pvp flagged for any reason. The message of course is that the terminal cannot be activated while in combat, which is untrue. Used to be could not at certain locations such as sentinals. Now even after you are killed, the pvp flags do not go away. Are these intentional changes, and if so I am curious why nothing was said about them anywhere.

[Emma]

Does this mean I can't do a daily that gets me flagged without being subject to Gankers waiting out in the location for the dailies that flag you?

I used to return to turn in the mission using the grid and moving quickly to the Freelance office ... Is this not allowed any longer?

Is this as intended?

Emma

edit: I tried this by hitting a guard in Newland ... zoning to Newland Desert and then used Slow fixer meep. I was able to exit grid at Newland (near Newland City) and re-enter grid there.

Maybe some grid access points have been changed? Or, bugged?

Or, someone standing nearby the grid terminal, targets you just before you hit the grid terminal and that keeps you from exiting?

So they can farm titles?

[ylnotixe]

Interesting, just tried a couple other grid terminals and could enter while pvp enabled, and in combat. So perhaps this is limited to a few terminals.

[DigitalBath]

My closest guess so far is that some mob may be bugged / out of range and attacking ylnotixe without making a big fuss about it.

Could you please try to use the !stats command on a decent org bot and check the "Number of fighting opponents" you have while not being able to access the grid?

[ylnotixe]

Actually not being able to enter the grid is a major annoyance but could well be part of the "meeping fix" (that really accomplished nothing but annoying people as the hard core pvp types have already figured out workarounds. The other major aspect is that the pvp enabled flags do not go away if you are killed, so you get to sit at reclaim rezzing with flags. Should not be long until groups of gankers start haunting the respawn spots again. This was fixed what 10 years ago when death broke the flags?

[DigitalBath]

Death only ever broke the small non-tower wars flags. (attacking a guard / pvp daily missions), which means that this was fixed in a partial way a long time ago, just not 100%.

That said, could you please test, at the same spots, what I proposed?

[ylnotixe]

When back and check, not totally sure as was not ganked this time by 3 220s (I mean really it takes three to kill a 182 MA - in a jetpack). But yeah, the area is infested with anun tearer mobs, so most likely had agg from one that was stuck in geometry half way across the playfield somewhere. Oh, and it was a daily mission flag that did not go away upon death. The 15 minute version. Not sure why there are several versions for daily missions, but that is another topic I suppose.

[Emma]

Could you please try to use the !stats command on a decent org bot and check the "Number of fighting opponents" you have while not being able to access the grid?

Perhaps you should check it ... it would appear that Ylnotixe would have trouble checking stats while 3 220's are sitting at the grid entrance hitting Q ... plus wasn't it a daily flag?

Emma

Edit: I just tested it myself, it is easy to duplicate. "Q" a guard from out of range to get a flag; find a mob and hit with Halt Flight or other root/snare and wait for it to get mad and follow you to a grid exit.
This terminal can not be activated while you are in combat.
This terminal can not be activated while you are in combat.

Kill the mob that followed you and no problem entering grid. So after doing a daily that flags you we are back to the random mob can prevent you from entering the grid.

Also ... Gankers can sit at a grid terminal and if they Q a flagged toon fast enough then the toon can't exit and are easy for title farming.

[appolonia]

You can use grid terminal while flagged, you can't while under aggro/attack, nothing new.

Got two Sentinels and two 4H dailies, work as (intented) before. Being unable to use warp beacons is teh sux, but once again eveything is sacrificed to "pvp" and people unable to warp by their own. Don't mistake one thing with another, though.

As I state elsewhere, the problem might come from aggro lasting too long/far, and from sync problems actually getting worse, but you've NEVER been able to use grod terminals while aggroed.

[DigitalBath]

Perhaps you should check it ... it would appear that Ylnotixe would have trouble checking stats while 3 220's are sitting at the grid entrance hitting Q ... plus wasn't it a daily flag?

Emma

Edit: I just tested it myself, it is easy to duplicate. "Q" a guard from out of range to get a flag; find a mob and hit with Halt Flight or other root/snare and wait for it to get mad and follow you to a grid exit.
This terminal can not be activated while you are in combat.
This terminal can not be activated while you are in combat.

Kill the mob that followed you and no problem entering grid. So after doing a daily that flags you we are back to the random mob can prevent you from entering the grid.

Also ... Gankers can sit at a grid terminal and if they Q a flagged toon fast enough then the toon can't exit and are easy for title farming.

I can't as I'm away from home and typing this on a cellphone.

I think I know what's happening here. The flag goes away, but the mission places something visible on your NCU called graffiti artist or something. That flags you and may be reflagging if it's not cleared upon death.

I'll test it tomorrow if no one else has the time, just gotta roll the mission I need on one of my chars.

EDIT: As confirmed by many in the other thread, the using grid while agg'd bit was always like this and is intended.
My answers here now are mainly to figure out if there's an issue or if the nanos are supposed to reflag you upon death.

[DigitalBath]

Okay! Tested what I could think of.. results are simple enough so far:

Can't grid in combat / while aggro'd - Working as intended.
Can grid while flagged - Working as intended.

You get the PvP flag correctly when you use the nano-spray. The 15min flag is set by one of these nanos: https://aoitems.com/search/name:graffiti+artist/ - Working as intended.
When dying/terminating/suiciding, regardless of the Graffiti Artist (5min duration) nanos still being on your NCU, the flag is NOT reset. - May be working as intended. I never really noticed as I was fortunate enough to just get to OA quickly, return the mission and lose the flag in the process. I have been lucky not to ever get ganked there in years of running dailies to level up chars, I'm sure my time will come at some point, tho.

The flag that's cast on you should be: https://aoitems.com/item/284620/pvp-enabled/
The last change on it seems to have been on 18.5, not the current branch, and it seems like it never broke on death on previous patches, at least not in a way I can see.
I'd love full confirmation that this type of mission-related PvP flag was terminated on death at some point.

I can also confirm the 10 minute "attack a guard" flag clears on death, just as it did before.


Sooo.. either something changed server-side and the flag from this particular type of mission (shoplifter/graffiti artist) is no longer cleared upon death.. or it never did and there's some confusion going on because the 10min flag clears and they're very similar (though not the same).

[Demoder]

(...)
The flag that's cast on you should be: https://aoitems.com/item/284620/pvp-enabled/
(...)

This nano has a "ignore death" flag, which means it's intended to stick in NCU through death.

[DigitalBath]

This nano has a "ignore death" flag, which means it's intended to stick in NCU through death.

Ah! I see it now! Sneaky flags are sneaky! (still getting used to the new layout.. awesome work on aoitems lately, man... I love it).

So.. this pretty much confirms that all is working as intended and nothing actually changed. The 10 minute guard flag doesn't have ignore death, the mission one does and has always had.



Fixing the snap back on those mobs so they don't aggro you for half a playfield would be cool, tho.

[Anna]

Well, if something was done on 18.5, I would be astounded that it was working as intended given the total debacle of that patch. I will also admit that I do not keep detailed notes of what I can and can't do. However, my recollection was, even during the worst days in Newland Dessert, if you could reach the grid, you could enter. However memory also says that if the gankers were out in force it was rarely possible to get that far. The whole issue ot transportation with agg, or flags has seemed to one of massive changes, reversals, partial changes, ninja changes, and perhaps some unintended consequences. Will all that said, it seems odd to me that in about 14 years of playing, I would never have experienced the inability to enter the grid while I had mob agg. Except for a couple changes that were later reversed. Perhaps memory is playing tricks on me again. Or more simply that bad memories tend to fade with time.

[DigitalBath]

I had great times on MMD PvP after I got used to getting jumped there. Fighting gankers back felt awesome and I remember they had the issue I had before I got used to PvP.. they couldn't run away to the grid term because I pressed Q.

The relevant changes to those nanos on 18.5 are visible. aoitems.com will help out, there's some links in one of these threads.

[Anna]

Regardless of when changed were made, the whole transportation and pvp enabled flags are a total mess. No consistency and easily exploitable. Why for instance do graffiti flags get a 15 minute flag, killing a guard 10 minutes, or 5 depending on location, killing the courrier in the daily gets a 5 minute flag, attacking towers gets no flag (unless you have no towers) healing an attacker of towers gets you no flag (if the attacker has no flag). The whole situation seems overly complex and designed to be abused and exploited. So back to the original post, is this really working as intended? And, I did confirm that flagged can enter grid. But flagged with some random mob aging and you cannot enter. Really makes no sense. Perhaps the latest patches did not really change anything directly, but it would seem that the issue became more visible, if only (perhaps) due to the influx of players.

[DigitalBath]

And, I did confirm that flagged can enter grid. But flagged with some random mob aging and you cannot enter. Really makes no sense. Perhaps the latest patches did not really change anything directly, but it would seem that the issue became more visible, if only (perhaps) due to the influx of players.

The flag has nothing to do with it. Those two scenarios are the same flagged or not. You can't (and never could) use a grid terminal with aggro.

It is working as intended by FC. Is it what players currently want? Does it matter? We'll see. With Michi in charge we might actually get something nice like what Litestrider proposed.

[ylnotixe]

Ok, just confirmed that on at least some grid points, you can indeed enter the grid with agro. It gives you the message that you can't then does so anyway. I will let you find the rest, but try going to your city, taunt the leet in the garden, then use the gridhouse. Puts you right in the grid after getting the message that you can't use the terminal while in a fight. I will give you a hint for the rest, they are not in the cities.


Oh and another comment about working as intended. That may or may not be accurate. Because it is working as programmed, doesn't mean that it is working as planned.

[appolonia]

Oh and another comment about working as intended. That may or may not be accurate. Because it is working as programmed, doesn't mean that it is working as planned.

"Working as intented" is more a joke or an habit after 14 years of justifying every bug/mess/nerf with those words =) (and we've read them A LOT)

[DigitalBath]

Ok, just confirmed that on at least some grid points, you can indeed enter the grid with agro. It gives you the message that you can't then does so anyway. I will let you find the rest, but try going to your city, taunt the leet in the garden, then use the gridhouse. Puts you right in the grid after getting the message that you can't use the terminal while in a fight. I will give you a hint for the rest, they are not in the cities.


Oh and another comment about working as intended. That may or may not be accurate. Because it is working as programmed, doesn't mean that it is working as planned.

Regarding the city grid.. it's not a grid terminal. That may be why it works differently.
Are any of the other spots normal grid terminals?

Just trying to spot what's different, here.


Regarding the "working as intended" term.. if something has worked in a consistent manner (cannot use grid terminals while aggro'd, regardless of pvp flag) since 2001.. I'd say there's a good chance that is how FC intended it to be so far.